'The poor are uneducated criminals and drug addicts who need to be sterilized'

[proud2BlibKansan]

Just unbelievable. On this article about poverty in Kansas, the following comments were posted:

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/05/3996591/poverty-in-kansas-some-fear-that.html

Rewarding the poor for having more children is VERY, VERY expensive.

They have no problem coming to county hospitals, such as Truman, to receive free obstetric care. In return they should have to submit to sterility via tubal ligation or essure in exchange for their free care. None of the current entitlement systems are working to curb the exploding pregnancy rates of the poor. This system would be a definitive measure to reduce welfare spending and the amount of criminals on the streets (via poor, fatherless teens who have a 75% chance of ending up in the US penal system).

Bottom line is most of these people are not employable. They have felony records. They are not educated. They have no skills. They have no reliable work record and above all else, many are or have been addicted to drugs. What good does it do to require that they search for 20 jobs a week when they are not employable in the first place? Further, our social safety net encourages them to have large families because that increases the amount they get in benefits but unfortunately now they have so many kids to care for that they are even less employable. It's a vicious circle for those people as well as the State.

We need to overhaul the whole system and deal with the root causes of the problems. It would seem to me that we spend 2 years providing them necessities but require that they spend all of those 2 years in training programs that teach them basic life skills including things like getting their GED, addiction counseling, hygiene, budgeting, how to drive, etc. and then give them job training. At the end of the 2 years, they should be employable. If they refuse to cooperate, then they lose their benefits and possibly their children if they are not fit to be parents.

It would be expensive up front but I believe it would reduce poverty and save the State money in the long run.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

1. None of our anti-poverty

programs are really designed to get people out of poverty. Even the EITC, supposedly the most successful, is merely a sop. The more effective way to reduce poverty is to have a "living wage" and affordable education.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Oh I agree.

But I m definitely not in favor of forced sterilization. wtf

[Sekhmets Daughter]

14. Agreed...

but I read a story on Huffington Post during the debt ceiling standoff in 2011 that had me wondering. The very sympathetic story was about a single mom who was worried about losing the monthly government check she receives. She receives $600. per month per child and has 6 qualifying children. As it turns out she has 8 children ...ranging in age from 21 to 1.5 (at the time of the story) Her 21-year-old and 18-year-old no longer qualified...but about the time they fell off the rolls (so to speak) she gave birth to the 3-year-old and then the 1.5-year-old. I think she lived in Minnesota, but I'm no longer certain. It is one of those states, MN, WS... In any case she has been receiving this government assistance for years and years...in return for working a full time job, as the money is supposed to be for childcare. $3,600 a month, $43,200 a year, is one hell of a check. If the story is true, and that's a big if, it's just plain wrong. There are many working families who receive no assistance for childcare, yet this woman gave birth 8 times...you don't need to be a mean spirited republican to figure out that the last two, at least, were for financial gain and quite possibly the last four.

Republicans insist everyone receiving government assistance is gaming the system and Democrats insist no such gaming ever takes place. Obviously, both sides are totally incorrect. The intransigence of both parties is why our system fails so miserably.

Sterilization isn't the answer, but perhaps we need to limit the number of children or the length of time?

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. No. We need to educate and provide family planning services.

We absolutely should not be telling anyone in this country how many children they can have. That's totalitarian and repulsive.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

38. I never said anything about telling anyone how many children they can have....

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. So what did you mean by this?

"but perhaps we need to limit the number of children"

[Sekhmets Daughter]

58. First, it was a question and second...

how many children do you have? If fewer than 8, why is that?

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. "Perhaps we need to" is NOT a question. It's a suggestion.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

61. It was not intended as a suggestion or solution.

I don't have the answers, and as I stated, I'm not even certain the story, as it appeared on HP, is true. Our system is failing to actually lift people out of poverty. Certainly we can agree on that, can't we? Yet there are people like yourself who will never admit there are problems with the system. Who see any 'suggestion' as dangerous to the status quo and immediately go into attack mode. A status quo designed to keep poor people poor, undereducated and out of the mainstream.

As you seem intent on continuing this ...how many children do you have and if fewer than 8, why is that?

[Oilwellian]

30. It sounds like bunk

I supervised family services for the local Head Start program and can assure you that no woman who receives aid for dependent children, nets $600 per child, per month. That's just absolutely absurd. Here in Virginia, a woman who gives birth to a second child and on AFDC, will receive an additional $60 a month per child.

I don't know if you realize it or not, but your meme sounds very familiar to Reagan's welfare queen schtick. The women I worked with who lived in poverty, would in no way have another child for a measly $60 a month.

[lunasun]

33. thank you- that is what I thought - not a way to riches

[Sadiedog]

36. Head Start teacher/ family advocate here and your observations are the same as what I have seen!

I just get very upset with these type of misconceptions. Also when people like to equate poverty with criminality! It is not a crime to be poor!!!!!

[Sekhmets Daughter]

39. Yes, I know...

Which is why I wrote "if true". Benefits vary from state to state and this was a northern state, Wisconsin or Minnesota. The article was not the least bit critical of the women who was being interviewed. In fact the entire focus was on how this woman could be facing serious difficulties because the republicans were being so outrageous. I also said the article left me wondering.

I lived in VA from 1968 until 1971...back then a family could not receive any assistance if the husband/father lived in the household. The old slave master mentality still reigned. The food stamp allowance was $1.00 a day per person. I was part of a group that volunteered to live on $1.00 of food a day for one week. What a truly miserable experience.

[lunasun]

42. so did you volunteer to simply get a free week's worth of food?

the post left me wondering

[Sekhmets Daughter]

62. We provided our own food and food diary...

The study showed me just how inadequate are the services we provide to poor people. I was in college at the time. At the same time I had two uncles, living in PA, collecting Black Lung SSI... One had never worked in the coal mines and one had worked a total of 3 days in the mines. I see more than one side to the issue of social safety nets. I vote Democratic because I believe some safety net is better than none, but I don't for one minute think our safety nets are adequate, yet alone perfect. I think Clinton's welfare reform was a disaster for many people, yet I see why some people would think it a good idea. Because Dems are locked into a defensive position, we never seem to be able to make our welfare programs perform at the optimum level.

[lunasun]

32. well if the money is for subsidized childcare in this state, then they are giving the money to a

certified childcare provider not the mother......do you really think they hand someone money for them to get childcare while working ?
How would they control if the child is really cared for while the mother is working?
What would stop someone from just spending the money and leaving the kids at home ?
So where is her financial gain??
If anything she is putting herself into deeper poverty imo,but I know many can not see that and think these people have hit the lotto

"If the story is true, and that's a big if, it's just plain wrong". > yeah I don't think the story you are telling is correct but I do not know all 50 state programs and our family has never dealt with vouchers.

I do think it is good for the children to be cared for by certified childcare workers,since being in poverty they are already at risk ( for the good of all society).

I knew a guy who came here from Italy many years ago. He and his siblings were locked in an apt. and told not to make any noise while the parents work. This went on for years and they missed some years of schooling as the old ones had to stay to care for the young ones
Someone here will say they should have worked different shifts, or the mother should have stayed home, or if they were that poor they should not have come to the US, not had kids whatever, but the answers are not that easy or simple.

And where are you drawing the line ?
In your post first you mention the last 2 kids, then it is the last 4, so when are you forcing a limit on the mother?
Also what if someone has money, has 9 kids ,gets sick and then their main support is gone, or abusive or dead and they are a single parent? then no childcare?

[Sekhmets Daughter]

41. I am not advocating for forced sterilization, or limiting the size of a family...

but perhaps having a cutoff date after assistance begins? I don't have the answers, all I know for certain is that our current system doesn't seem to be working very well or we wouldn't have so many people living in poverty. Furthermore, I never said anyone was becoming rich, I was simply relating the story as it appeared on HP. The woman said she wouldn't be able to make her mortgage payment if she didn't receive her check. Perhaps because she would have to pay for the childcare herself? She didn't say.

If someone begins receiving assistance when they have 2 children and then proceeds to have 6 more over the next 18 years, you don't see any problem with that? Like maybe she is too damned irresponsible to be raising children? Or perhaps, as a society, we are doing a piss poor job of teaching family planning? Are you really going to pretend our current system is without flaws? Or that we don't have generations of families who require assistance and never escape poverty? How does that benefit anyone? My children went to elementary school with the first generation of babies born addicted to crack. I've seen the results of our failed system. You want to pretend its perfect, go right ahead. Me? I'd rather acknowledge there are serious problems and try to think of ways to improve it. I'd prefer to see fewer people needing long term assistance because they received more generous benefits at the outset, of the type that could actually do some good. Including educational benefits and tutoring for the children.

[lunasun]

44. I did not say the system is without flaws or perfect in any state

I did not say that a single mother was getting a direct deposit of $600 per kid per month in assistance or "...you don't need to be a mean spirited republican to figure out that the last two, at least, were for financial gain and quite possibly the last four. "

[Recursion]

48. The system that isn't working very well is finance-led capitalism, not welfare (nt)

[Sekhmets Daughter]

57. Neither work very well here...

[2pooped2pop]

60. u would think at the very least

they would quit trying to prevent birth control coverage and abortion.

[Ken Burch]

5. But if they did that, capitalism wouldn't have its "reserved army of the unemployed".

And any politician that got rid of THAT army would be given very poor Marx by his overlords.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

15. I've always believed that our welfare system, aka social safety net,

was designed not to lift people out of poverty but to keep them complacent by giving them just enough to subsist and buy their substance of choice. Which is not to say that all are drug users or alcohol abusers.

[coalition_unwilling]

47. The late Senator George McGovern's idea of a 'Guaranteed Annual Income' (aka 'Negative

Income Tax') would also go a long way to reducing poverty and weaving a social safety net of which we could be proud.

[Aviation Pro]

3. In order to equalize the playing field....

...and make it equitable let's sterilize the entire state of Kansas for those who choose to remain in that fly over state.

Fucking morons such as this oxygen thief who blows a mean dog whistle only want to target the black hordes that might come a knockin' on his front door one day.

As I said, fucking moron.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Can we just sterilize the right wing nutjobs?

There are still some good liberals here.

[bluestate10]

40. Have the liberals and Moderates mark their doors. A second passover is coming.

The rightwing nutjobs should appreciate that, milliseconds before they lose their mojo for good. At least they won't die this time around, but those sexual repressed morons probably will consider their fate to be worst than death.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. LOL

[Downwinder]

4. I notice there are no suggestions for amputation or castration.

It all seems oriented against women. Do we have enough evidence yet to say that Brownback is a misogynist.

I am almost looking forward to the next dust bowl. Everybody will be poor.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Eugenics by another name

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. And he's posted more comments defending his idea!

Unreal.

[Mariana]

24. What other name? It's eugenics, period. nt.

[Mrs. Overall]

26. Yes, Eugenics. I still think most people are ignorant as to what went on in state hospitals

and prisons from 1900-1950 in this country--thousands of individuals sterilized against their will. I have two relatives who were in a CA state hospital and were sterilized. One was twenty years old and one was twelve years old. The topic really upsets me. This is absolutely the Eugenics program rearing its face again. Unacceptable.

[Mass]

9. Social darwinism is back.

I am not sure it has ever left us, but it is stronger and stronger.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. They're just more vocal now.

[Ikonoklast]

46. They call it "Libertarianism" now.

The strong preying on the weak, and letting starvation take care of the problems of excessive population.

[me b zola]

11. RWers have been trained to, when presented with any social problem,

find the group of people who are the least powerful and are suffering the most and blame that group of people for our problems. It is disgusting and I call them out on it every time I hear conservatives blaming those who need our help the most.

The entire notion of conservatives having reproductive authority over women's bodies or authority over less affluent families struggling to keep their families together and taken care of is particularly galling to me.

[Kingwithnothrone]

19. It is not just the RWers

I have seen more than one post here today,suggesting that poor people should just pack up the wagons and move to a new neighborhood to improve their social condition.The thinking of a Conservative,whether Democrat or Republican is a drain on humanity.

[me b zola]

20. I agree

It really is a conservative world view regardless of party affiliation, but it is more extreme and over the top in the listeners of rw radio or television.

[loyalsister]

12. Been there done that...

"It began on Long Island and ended at Auschwitz... and yet it never really stopped."

http://waragainsttheweak.com/

[handmade34]

13. the good governor (and I use that term loosely)

says, "...the best way to help someone out of poverty is a well-paying job..." ...so just give them a fucking living wage job mr. Brownback... I have developed a real hate for so called 'conservative compassion'

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. He also wants them to get married.

[jwirr]

28. My pastor and I were privately joking about marriage as a solution to my own poverty. I told him

that he needed to find me a very old man with a short life expectancy and a very big house and I would do it. He was not from Kansas and he is not a conservative.

[handmade34]

29. Religion is at the center of Sam Brownback’s life"

"...Brownback told the crowd his religion was reshaped in 1995 when he was diagnosed with cancer and was searching for something real he could hold on to. He said he visited his family’s farm, but began to realize that even his family isn’t necessarily going to be there forever. “I finally reached up and said ‘God this life is yours..."

I've begun to hate religion even more... the damage done is dangerous... I used to have a generous level of tolerance for such things, but no more!

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/29/3986533/religion-is-at-the-center-of-brownbacks.html

[GoCubsGo]

18. I know exactly how you feel...

I despise it, too. I don't think very highly of those who hold such "compassion", either.

[GoCubsGo]

16. Lots of vile people like that where I live, too.

Assholes like that don't understand that it's just dumb luck that they aren't one of the poor people they bitch and moan about--as in Lucky Sperm Club. And, they are also lucky that shit hasn't happened to them--yet. Just ask any middle-aged person who got laid off in the recession, and is still looking for a job as we watch everything we worked for all our lives disappear. Or, anyone who was bankrupted because they got cancer, or had a child born with some inherited disease.

[Kingwithnothrone]

25. hit em with this

Here is your freedom and profits, at the price of slavery and hate of those "others and lessers"...And, now here you are... and if you should lose all of "yours", what will you do...Chant USA USA USA?

Gets em thinking for about a minute, and then comes the righteous indignation that they did "everything right" while the poor among us have done everything wrong.You see...it cannot happen to them,and if it did,they would surely pull themselves up by the bootstraps and stop whining like those yucky drug addicted poor people and losers never realizing or caring that many of today's poor were once them.

Only about ten percent or less of the people in this country have job security, household income of around 80 or 90 grand or more,make house,car,and insurance payments,don't worry about food,and can "invest" money in the wall street casino.It is in the that world that these assholes live,and most of them don't even know or care that the other 90 percent exist.

The consistent blame from this pack of cretins in America, is that whatever the social problem, the masses of the "less fortunate" are to be blamed.That is reactionary garbage and elitist,malicious crap, as well as inhumane and ignorant to say the least.The only thing that most of the Conservative "upscale" set in both parties can agree on,is to jail those "drug addicted leeches" beneath them that are stealing their tax dollars and ruining there beautiful thoughts of the American Dream.They put on a righteous facade about how they "care" about issues,but in the end, they all revolve around "them".They are the for the "middle class"of course,the ten percent "middle class" they reside in,not the "middle class" that works to eat and now lives paycheck to paycheck one calamity or health problem away from losing everything.

Excuse my language...but fuck them.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

31. Well said!

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. I asked this guy if he would approve of his own daughter being sterilized

if she had hard times and became poor.

He did not reply.

[kestrel91316]

21. How many of those felony records they supposedly have are for

simple cannabis possession? Probably no small percentage. And it makes them forever unemployable.

[silverweb]

22. How about long-term contraception?

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]There are a number of long-term contraceptives available now and I think many poor women would welcome the opportunity to receive them.

Sterilization, voluntary or not, is an extreme measure, but IUDs and long-term hormonal methods like Implanon work and are easily reversible. Encouraging their use both helps reduce the number of children born into impoverished or unwelcoming circumstances, and respects the woman who may yet improve her life given appropriate opportunities.

[gollygee]

37. Well if they want that you'd think they wouldn't be defunding Planned Parenthood

since they are a common source of contraceptives for low income women.

[Squinch]

56. EXACTLY!!! Or opposing covered contraception. They are full of moronic contradictions.

[jwirr]

27. Eugenics alive and well in Kansas. Wonder if this idiot knows that Hitler was a fan of our eugenics

program. Modeled his own after ours.

[Raine]

34. If they are "uneducated" then shouldn't it be a priority to educate them, duh. nt

[librechik]

35. signed, Hitler

So, there is an alternative to working to make things better for all. Just eliminate the ones you feel are a drag on society.

I think we tried this before and in the end, it didn't work out. But how would the idiot who wrote that piece know? Obviously doesn't know anything beyond his daily bowel movement.

[PopeOxycontinI]

43. It suggests job training...

not a bad idea but fucking repukes/cons bitch about the cost of things like that as well!
They bitch about the cost of everything except their fucking pweschuss
trillion a year military industrial complex.

Ya also gotta love their obliviousness to the fact the underclass now includes
people with degrees and experience in the "right" fields. Fucking gold.

[Tien1985]

45. K&r

This is insane. I cannot believe anyone would seriously consider forced sterilization--along with much of the other things the author brings up. This cannot be allowed to stand.

[undergroundpanther]

49. that guy is an asshole.

Get corporations off welfare.

I'm poor but I have no kids, no criminal record and don't do drugs. Figure that one out ya fascist poor hater pig.
I bet he's to scared to fathom that the GREEDY create the NEEDY.

I hope one day he's poor,and people remember him, and he feels his own stigmas back at him.Maybe reality will knock some sense into that asshole.

[Brigid]

52. Hello, Kansas? The nineteenth century called.

They want their talking points back.

[Dirty Socialist]

54. I thought Kansas/Missouri was Christian

Silly me.

[TheKentuckian]

55. Disgusting and evil.