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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsObama Taps Anti-Gay Preacher for Inaugural Benediction (with Shocking Quotes)
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/obama-taps-anti-gay-preacher-inaugural-benediction-shocking-quotes?akid=9909.187861.alsoDi&rd=1&src=newsletter773863&t=3Pastor Louie Giglio, a proponent of discredited "ex-gay" treatment, will deliver the benediction for the president's second inauguration.
January 9, 2013 |
The Presidential Inauguration Committee announced Tuesday that the President Obama has selected Pastor Louie Giglio of the Georgia-based Passion City Church to deliver the benediction for his second inauguration. In a mid-1990s sermon identified as Giglios, available online on a Christian training Web site, he preached rabidly anti-LGBT views. The 54-minute sermon, entitled In Search of a Standard Christian Response to Homosexuality, advocates for dangerous ex-gay therapy for gay and lesbian people, references a biblical passage often interpreted to require gay people be executed, and impels Christians to firmly respond to the aggressive agenda and prevent the homosexual lifestyle from becoming accepted in society. Below are some of the most disturbing views in the sermon.
Christians must fight against LGBT-equality:
(2:40) We must not just sit quietly by and stick our heads in the sand and let whatever happens happen in our country. Weve got to respond to the world that we live in. That is the mandate that comes to us as people of God. And this issue is coming more and more to the forefront every day.
(31:45) We must lovingly but firmly respond to the aggressive agenda of not all, but of many in the homosexual community. Underneath this issue is a very powerful and aggressive moment. That movement is not a benevolent movement, it is a movement to seize by any means necessary the feeling and the mood of the day, to the point where the homosexual lifestyle becomes accepted as a norm in our society and is given full standing as any other lifestyle, as it relates to family.
Homosexuality is a sin:
(9:20) [God] says very clearly in [Leviticus], verse 22, after he talks about a lot of different kinds of relationships, he says in verse 22: You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female. It is an abomination. Now if you would look forward into the New Testament context, to the passage that most of us know most commonly with this issue, into chapter one of the book of Romans, lets read a few verses together beginning in verse 18. If youre taking notes tonight, you might make this the note of Leviticus 20:13 and the book of Jude, we wont look at those passages but there is some support and encouragement there to this topic.
(17:37) Men, women, I cant say anything other to you tonight than this, that if you look at the counsel of the word of God, Old Testament, New Testament, you come quickly to the conclusion that homosexuality is not an alternate lifestyle homosexuality is not just a sexual preference homosexuality is not gay, but homosexuality is sin. It is sin in the eyes of God, and it is sin according to the word of God. You come to only one conclusion: homosexuality is less than Gods best for his creation. It is less than Gods best for us and everything in our lives that is less than Gods best for us and his plan for us and his design for us, is sin. Thats Gods voice. If you want to hear Gods voice, that is his voice to this issue of homosexuality. It is not ambiguous and unclear. It is very clear.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Last edited Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:20 PM - Edit history (1)
And I'll swear in on a copy of The Constitution.
MurrayDelph
(5,291 posts)but I'll swear on a Spider-Man comic.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Never happen, too many skeletons in the old closet.
Im fucked when this tape gets out, for instance.
http://spermphoenixfilms.tumblr.com/post/35820275965/ladies-and-gentlemen-i-present-to-you-a
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)Even though I don't even believe in deism.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)The important point is that Myrlie Evers will be speaking. She is NOT anti-gay!
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)He should vet these guys for bigotry.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I think not.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)even when one side is and has always been pure poison.
As a gay man who still cannot get married in his home state, and who is apparently ineligible for inclusion under the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution "because christians", I'm very deeply troubled by this.
Frankly, this very nearly makes me regret casting my second vote for him.
"But Romney!"
But nothing. This is wrong, but because Obama is a christian, people are making excuses. Again.
They're wrong, too. Not to mention immoral, judgmental, unethical, inhuman, and thus very very unchristian.
My observation is that this behavior is typical of the faith in general regarding this specific topic. Note my lack of surprise, considering that this attitude is part of the actual text of this mob's holy book.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)OR FDR having Hitler's personal chaplain give it at his fourth-term swearing-in.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)marriage equality. This administration's record in support of equality speaks for itself. Not enforcing DOMA is a logical step in the right direction.
I'm glad that I voted for this president. I may not agree with everything, but there is no indication that he is a homophobe.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)then please explain his apparent fetish for selecting them for things like this so very often.
I'm on break at work so I dont have time to provide a link to the list of such people Obama has chosen for speaking events that another DUer posted earlier today or possibly yesterday.
He keeps doing it. Explain that.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)pushed our President in a direction in which neither he nor the people closest to him were prepared to go at this time.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Look, here's how I feel about this: There have been Democrats who have made bigoted comments throughout their career. Even Joe Biden has said some stupid shit about minorities. Harry Reid. Others. It doesn't bother me.
Know what does? POLICY!!
I don't care what you may think about me or say about me as a black woman so long as at the end of the day, your voting record, your policies are not bigoted. Democrats and liberals are NOT above reproach. There is racism, anti-gay/lesbian, sexism, and all kinds of bigotry that exists on the political Left as it does on the political Right.
I have always believed, however, that it is the POLICY that is most damaging, not beliefs. Not words.
The pastor is an asshole. He is a bigot.
The president? There's NOTHING in his policy that is anti-gay, anti-LGBT, racist, or whatever. And where it does exist, I would hope that the president and the Democratic Party would work to eradicate that. I have faith that the president wants to do the right thing; has tried to do the right thing.
We should hold his feet to the fire when the POLICY goes the wrong way. A bigoted pastor? He can kiss my ass. A bigoted public policy ? Unacceptable.
----
Just found this personal story about Cory Booker's transformation on this issue. I think it is worth the read:
Source: Salon
Booker used to be homophobic. Now he's not. What his evolution teaches us about change -- and acceptance
BY KATIE MCDONOUGH
Everyone loves Cory Booker. He saves people from fires. He opens his home to Sandy evacuees. He tweets about Hot Pockets. And now he is coming clean about his own homophobia during college and how he struggled to overcome it. This guy!
The Stanford Daily, along with BuzzFeed, unearthed a 1992 Op-Ed in which Booker wrote candidly about his early homophobia and subsequent tolerance phase, a period during which he renounced his bias, but still felt personally disgusted by gay people:
I stopped telling my gay jokes. Fags, flamers and dykes became homosexuals and people of differing sexual orientation and, of course, I had my gay friend. But I was disgusted by gays. The thought of two men kissing each other was about as appealing as a frontal lobotomy.
The young Booker doesnt pull any punches, either: Allow me to be more direct, escaping the euphemisms of my past I hated gays, he wrote. The disgust and latent hostility I felt toward gays were subcategories of hatred, plain and simple.
But all of that changed after talking with a gay counselor during his freshman year:
Read more: http://www.salon.com/2013/01/10/cory_booker_i_hated_gays/
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,867 posts)If this isn't a slap in the face to the lgbt community I don't know what is.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)among pastors. Being black is not widely considered to be a sin in various religions, but it is widely believed by a lot of religious leaders, of all religions, that homosexuality is a sin.
There is a difference, however, in believing that to be so, and going on an anti-gay crusade.
I wonder why he chose this pastor?
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,867 posts)One is hatred and bigotry based on fairy tales and ignorance the other is hatred and bigotry based on ignorance.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)and to my knowledge, most of them, if not all, state that homosexuality is a sin (or whatever that religion calls it as being against their God's rules).
So most religious leaders do, as a matter of fact, believe that to be so. But they place a different importance on it, depending on the religion and the person. And no doubt some do not take the Bible or other holy book literally.
But I'm not aware of any religion whose holy book states that being black or Asian or whatever is a sin.
So, if a pastor says, "homosexuality is a sin," he or she is just stating what his holy book says. If he says, "being black is a sin," that's personal bigotry, since it's not in any holy book and is not a teaching of their religion (that I'm aware of).
But as I said...some pastors pass over some of the "rules," and emphasize others. Still others go on crusades...women being submissive, men not being gay, different races marrying, etc. Going on a crusade is above and beyond what the holy book says. Then it becomes a personal vendetta, sort of. In my view.
But there must've been some reason this particular pastor was chosen. I wonder what it is.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)Your defense is that they read fairy tale "books" that teach bigotry?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)You are talking about RELIGIOUS leaders. By definition, they follow a RELIGION, a GOD.
You may not approve of them, but by definition, that's what they are. They will of COURSE follow and teach their religious beliefs.
If Obama picks a pastor to do a prayer, he or she will be a religious leader who will almost certainly believe homosexuality is a sin. That is the nature of religions.
But whether the religious leader chooses to make a crusade out of something is different entirely.
I'm female, and I know that most religious leaders believe that women should be subservient to men. That's the nature of Christianity, Islam, and most other religions, to my knowledge. What matters to me is whether they choose to emphasize that or make a crusade out of it.
These are not fairy tales to religious people.
It is important that this pastor chose to go on some sort of anti-gay crusade or make strong statements. That's unusual. So, as I asked, why this pastor? He must've done something to warrant being selected.
I should add that I think this is a strange choice for Obama. Knowing how this issue has been front and center in recent years, and how hard fought recent gains have been. Strange.
tblue37
(65,215 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)of now. A preacher who is giving a prayer at the inauguration in 2013.
Still...it's a strange choice. He surely could've found someone who isn't controversial. The country is filled with notable religious leaders who are good guys and not controversial. Deja vu.
tblue37
(65,215 posts)these stupid situations:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2165313
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Same books say that if a person grows two crops in one field, they must die. Same book, the Bible says it is acceptable to sell your daughter into slavery, which is also, by the way, acceptable, slavery itself. That is why the Bible was used to as reason for American chattel slavery, the Bibles says human trafficking is just fine. However, if you get the wrong haircut, you should be put to death. If you wear a bit of clothing with blended fabric, that is an abomination and the person must die for it.
Children who disrespect adults are to be stoned by their parents. If the parents refuse, the community is supposed to stone the kids to death. For back talk.
In the entire Bible, each author who condemns gay people also supports slavery. So the two teachings are joined at the hip. Paul has a few verses against gay people, many urging slaves to obey their masters as if the master was God's proxy, and tons of verses telling women they must never speak in front of groups of people, that they must never ask a question to anyone but their husbands, and then only at home alone.
Paul says that women must never wear anything that calls attention to their physical beauty. Nothing costly. Head always to be covered.
So anyone who does not practice all of that, example, the Obama family, has no right to pick out some random verse that applies to others and drive it like a tank against others. I sure see Michelle speaking in public wearing no head covering, a designer dress that shows off her looks and no one ever mentions that the Bible condemns that.
The Bible also condemns hypocrisy in extreme terms. Those who look for fault in others when they themselves are full of faults are condemned, those who pray in public-dig this- Jesus said those who pray in public are all hypocrites who carry on for attention from people, God ignores them. Jesus said public prayer is a huge offense to God. Huge. He also commanded that his followers take no oaths of any kind...Ironic, isn't it?
But the religious people claim they are perfected and they reject all the teachings and rules that are about them and instead they rave on about what others are doing. Jesus told them only God gets to judge, but they judge anyway.
Then they go to the Red Lobster, to eat a meal that the Bible says is a sin worthy of death....
What was your point again? Something about what religious books say is a sin? Yeah.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)been interpreted to mean that black people hold that curse. This is from Wiki, so it should be easy to understand:
Baptist segregation
The split between the Northern and Southern Baptist organizations arose over slavery and the education of slaves. At the time of the split, the Southern Baptist group used the curse of Cain as a justification for slavery. Some 19th and 20th century Baptist ministers in the southern United States taught that there were two separate heavens; one for blacks, and one for whites.[20] Baptists have taught or practiced various forms of racial segregation well into the mid-to-late-20th century, though members of all races were accepted at worship services.[21] In 1995, the Southern Baptist Convention officially denounced racism and apologized for its past defense of slavery.[22]
The curse of Cain was used to support a ban on ordaining blacks to most Protestant clergies until the 1960s in both the U.S. and Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain
So you were saying....
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)See #173 below.
tblue37
(65,215 posts)dbackjon
(6,578 posts)THERE IS NO FUCKING DIFFERNCE
If you don't know that you are an idiot.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Certainly not mine (Unitarianism), and certainly not Buddhism, just to name 2.
http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/buddhism.htm
Lay Buddhists (those who live outside the monastery) are expected to adhere to Five Precepts, the third of which is a vow "not to engage in sexual misconduct." But what is sexual misconduct? Right and wrong behavior in Buddhism is generally determined by considerations such as the following:
Universalibility principle - "How would I like it if someone did this to me?"
Consequences - Does the act causes harm and regret (in oneself or others) or benefit and joy?
Utilitarian principle - Will the act help or harm the attainment of goals (ultimately spiritual liberation)?
Intention - Is the act motivated by love, generosity and understanding?
"Sexual misconduct" has thus traditionally been interpreted to include actions like coercive sex, sexual harassment, child molestation and adultery. As Homosexuality is not explicitly mentioned in any of the Buddha's sayings recorded in the Pali Canon (Tripitaka), most interpreters have taken this to mean that homosexuality should be evaluated in the same way as heterosexuality, in accordance with the above principles.
A Buddhist author of an article on homosexuality concludes:
In the case of the lay man and woman where there is mutual consent, where adultery is not involved and where the sexual act is an expression of love, respect, loyalty and warmth, it would not be breaking the third Precept. And it is the same when the two people are of the same gender. Likewise promiscuity, license and the disregard for the feelings of others would make a sexual act unskillful whether it be heterosexual or homosexual. All the principles we would use to evaluate a heterosexual relationship we would also use to evaluate a homosexual one. In Buddhism we could say that it is not the object of one's sexual desire that determines whether a sexual act is unskillful or not, but rather the quality of the emotions and intentions involved. [1]
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)There are black, brown, yellow and white LGBT, too.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)The president seems determined to include people who are just plain WRONG on issues in these major events. And by doing so he is enabling their bigotry, he is giving them credibility.
This is called 'very bad judgement'. Unless of course he still holds the views he always held, that 'marriage is between a man and a woman'. How are we supposed to believe he had a change of heart on this issue when he does something like this? He KNOWS it is hurtful to people who supported him, to other human beings. Surely there are non-bigoted people in this country he could call on to do this, assuming we need these religions ceremonies in a democracy in the first place.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)dbackjon
(6,578 posts)Or a minister that advocates women should not vote, etc.?
KoKo
(84,711 posts)yardwork
(61,533 posts)It's insulting to everybody who voted for him.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)why does he keep doing this? These folks do not want to 'play nice' with him, so why does he keep including them?
I find it insulting that someone who is so vocally anti-gay is asked to lead a prayer. It's one thing to hold differing views, I agree, but to be a vocal and well-known anti-gay advocate is really OTT.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)My conscience is clear on that count. The inclusion of this bigot is despicable. I will not be watching the inaugural.
obamanut2012
(26,041 posts)yardwork
(61,533 posts)I didn't really think that Barack Obama had "evolved" on the question of gay rights. I think that he has been (quite reluctantly) dragged along on the issue of human rights for gay people because it was politically expedient. Historically, more than 70% of LGBTQ people vote Democratic. Many of us have been large donors to the Democratic Party. After 2008-09 a lot of us closed our wallets. Mine hasn't reopened. Obviously I voted Democratic in every election and supported Obama. I'm not stupid. I'm also not stupid enough to give my money to people who treat me with contempt and enable child abusers.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)but you're probably just trying to remind us of that fact, and that we shouldn't accept it this time around - that it's even less acceptable than last time, yes?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I have many friends who were subjected by their parents to the "ex gay therapy". I am lucky that i belong to a denomination that accepts the fact i am gay. I am sorry if my first post made it seem like a small issue. But in the end it is likely he was not vetted properly and they for some reason not changing their mind.
yardwork
(61,533 posts)For whatever reason, President Obama keeps choosing virulently anti-gay people to represent his team. Not only is this shown in his choice of both Rick Warren and now this Giglio, Obama's attitude toward this is reflected in his decision to have Donnie McClurkin play a key role in a key state during the 2008 campaign, and in Obama's decision to retain Valerie Jarrett as a senior adviser after her inhuman comment that a gay teen who committed suicide had made "a lifestyle choice."
All of these people have one thing in common. Not only are they viciously homophobic, they specifically pick on young gay people.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Maybe someone should remind the president and his staff who put them there. I think tomorrow i might call the white house switch board or send an email.
yardwork
(61,533 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)If they don't accept us the hell with them. There are a lot of wealthy gay donors, and they are the ones that need to speak up.
yardwork
(61,533 posts)Now that he's been reelected I guess we have to sit at the back of the bus again. I anticipated this.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)it was a political decision.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)fundraiser. It is that simple.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)Clooney fundraiser -----> Biden and Duncan unequivocally supporting marriage equality -----> Obama's "evolution", all within a very short period of time?
Interesting.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)to give the closing benediction at the Democratic National Convention this summer. A benediction that spoke against choice and marriage equality.
These are not small "mistakes".
yardwork
(61,533 posts)DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)He just simply does not like us gay folk. I hope none of his children (or grandchildren) turn out to be "different". He will have a problem with it.
obamanut2012
(26,041 posts)I have -- and do -- work with people I can tell are very uncomfortable with LGBT folks, but, because of HR regs, have to "tolerate" us.
I was sincerely hoping Presideny Obama had evolved on this.
yardwork
(61,533 posts)Well, politics works both ways. The Democrats have my vote because the alternative is far worse, but they haven't had any of my money for some time.
MADem
(135,425 posts)And they'll sit him next to the poet (who is Hispanic and gay) to piss him off.
Who knows what they were thinking? Maybe Obama's an atheist and he picked the guy by throwing a dart at a list of names?
I don't see the Obamas trotting off to church every Sunday. I know they did it in Chicago, for the political networking certainly (and that is a powerful lobby) but I think they're living a more secular life in DC...?
Maybe this guy is just a fatty bone to the dog, a way of saying "Something for everyone--including you backwards haters." We'll see.
Maven
(10,533 posts)xchrom
(108,903 posts)They just announced they would do same sex marriages.
Cha
(296,780 posts)is named Inaugural Poet.
The Presidential Inauguration Committee on Wednesday named the Inaugural poet, who will appear at President Barack Obamas swearing-in ceremony on Inauguration Day. Richard Blanco will be the countrys youngest Inaugural poet and also the first Hispanic and first member of the LGBT community to serve in the position, according to a statement from the committee:
Im honored that Richard Blanco will join me and Vice President Biden at our second Inaugural, Obama said in the statement. His contributions to the fields of poetry and the arts have already paved a path forward for future generations of writers. Richards writing will be wonderfully fitting for an Inaugural that will celebrate the strength of the American people and our nations great diversity.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/01/blanco-named-inaugural-poet-153709.html
And, Medgar Evers' Widow, Myrlie Evers-Williams, is giving the Invocation..
Myrlie Evers-Williams and her children, Reena, Van and Darrell, photographed shortly after her husband (and their father), Medgar Evers, was assassinated in 1963. Fifty years later she will deliver the invocation for the inauguration of the President of the United States.
I am humbled to have been asked to deliver the invocation for the 57th inauguration of the President of the United States especially in light of this historical time in America when we will celebrate the 50th Anniversary of the Civil Rights Movement. (NBC)
http://theobamadiary.com/
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Which will make the Right scream that he should have been more 'principled.'
patrice
(47,992 posts)away with a priest or a poet, when he and Telemachus make their move to free Penelope and Odysseus' kingdom of false suitors . . . why Homer had Odysseus choose to eliminate the priest, instead of the poet.
My answer to that question (a very long time ago) was: Authentic artists (of the sort that Robert Graves wrote about in The White Goddess) are revolutionaries of the sort that authentic nobility does not fear, in fact, they need them, hence the pretensions to art in so many of the royalty.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)I got what you posted. For whatever it's worth. I would hope it's worth much.
patrice
(47,992 posts)Thanks for your response, KoKo! I was a little worried! about any reference to nobility, authentic or otherwise. There are differences in things; I don't claim to be THE judge, but discernment is a relatively useful skill for anyone.
Cha
(296,780 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:02 AM - Edit history (1)
Gigilo have any power to take away strength from Richard Blanco and Myrlie Evers-Williams.
Edit: Forgot a word
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)Cha
(296,780 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)that has much relevance today as it ever did, also wrote about poetry and he was really very strong about the importance of good poets and how bad poets should be rejected. Aristotle's description of good poetry is of something that is much more highly disciplined than what we commonly think of today, but I guess he was speaking as one of the main apostles of reason as a means of discovering truth, so he was saying poets, because of their popularity, have just as much or more of a responsibility to the truth of "the golden mean" than others do.
Cha
(296,780 posts)at the second Inauguratoin of our first Black President ( Or as Morgan Freeman says.. "the First Mixed Race President" .
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)And the first person who tells me this is "reachy-outy" is getting chop-slapped.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Asswipe in question just hosted a convention and has a couple million young, college age followers.......he's a rising Christian young punk star that appeals to college age and younger, and he is connected to music concerns that have far-reaching fans.
So when you ask an asshole like that to give the benediction, what are you doing?
You are dividing the self-proclaimed Christians.
The purists will demand that he not share the stage with the LGBT Poet Laureate. The racist/birther faction will demand he do the same. Every "real" Christian will DEMAND that he not be up there.
Note the lack of 'old' clergy.
But this guy is pretty much a self-made tool.
So he will be up there. Used, and then discarded.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)instead of an old one
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Billy Graham's appointed heir ain't there, is he?
The Catholic Church?
The Southern Baptists?
No--this is a direct insult to the Bible Belt....they will have to eat one of their own to denigrate my President.
Now you watch as this "CC" dances in the wind....
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Baptist. Mainstream. As it gets.
His training: Master of Divinity from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas.
From the Baptist Board. This is about one of Giglio's most famous and hilarious sermons. Science haters will love this:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=49179
Here he is on 700 Club! Yep:
http://www.cbn.com/700club/guests/bios/louiegiglio092409.aspx
patrice
(47,992 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)with LGBTQ's fundamental community the rest of us can help make the case FOR LGBTQ Rights.
Expect trollery. I am going to try to be positive.
FreeState
(10,569 posts)will once again see that anti-gay people that believe they can and should change are respected and placed in positions of importance. Nothing like telling a vulnerable group that kills itself at much higher rates than their piers that beliefs that they are garbage are valid and respected.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)the silence of Mr. Giglio.
FreeState
(10,569 posts)thats not the case. Propping up extremist hate groups leaders, and thats what this man is advocating, eliminating the gay community through God, is not a game of chess. Its disgusting, harmful and uncalled for.
Maybe we should further the rights of minorities by further dividing republicans by inviting a grand master of the KKK to say the prayer. Seriously, I find your suggestions as ridiculous and hurtful as that would be.
patrice
(47,992 posts)attest to with names and faces from bygone classrooms, though they are no longer here to tell their stories.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,867 posts)Would you "guess" the same thing of black and Jewish youth if a Aryan Nations members was speaking?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)You are asking a question that is its own answer. When you ask an asshole like that to give the benediction, you are asking an asshole like that to give the benediction.
Sometimes the simplest explanation is best. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
Response to Jackpine Radical (Original post)
Cali_Democrat This message was self-deleted by its author.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)could argue that letting him give the benediction was a symbol of the new president's attempt to be inclusive.
i've never heard of this creepy whackjob & the president has already been way too 'inclusive'.
this is just crap.
Terra Alta
(5,158 posts)Just what we need, another homophobic right-wing "Christian" pastor giving the benediction.
If Obama must have a benediction, then he should have went with Rob Bell. Boy, that would have sent the fundies into a tizzy.
hay rick
(7,584 posts)hay rick
(7,584 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)President Obama is forcing his supporters to set aside their own moral values to embrace intolerance and hate. Why not just go the whole distance and invite Fred Phelps? At least that way he'd be pissing everyone off and not just his own supporters.
leftstreet
(36,097 posts)leftstreet
(36,097 posts)'But it's only a 2 minute prayer!' Thus saith Obama's Ardent Supporters - when the freakish Rick Warren was chosen to prey at the first inaugural
sorry I didn't understand your post
thought you were defending him
KoKo
(84,711 posts)had his Inauguration Committee go there with this "Nut Job."
Even "Center for American Progress" was upset enough to post about this on their own.
It's totally offensive to have this "Pastor" (or whatever he calls himself) give the Benediction when Obama has to know that this will inflame and upset not only the GBTL Community but also MODERATE CHRISTIANS.
It's disgusting....and don't tell me he's playing some "Dimensional Chess" on this...it's still "in your face" about what Obama really believes about Religion. He's either TRASHING it or Making Sport of It. And that says much about his Character.
Whether this can be overcome by him in his Second Administration ...remains to be seen...but, it's Not a GOOD START to throw this ugly piece of red meat in the face of those of us who "held our nose and voted for him again." And, I'm a straight, female who is totally offended by THIS along with his Drone Killing, Pro-War Globalist Policies on Trade and War and Dentention of Americans (along with killing them if they are in foreign countries and NDAA and Education headed by Michelle Rhee and Arne Duncan and being Trashed for who I am by Rahm Emmanuel in his first term.
I voted for him. I did it. I am really thrown into worry about where he's going if he believes this Evangelical Preacher is who he wants to SHOWCASE for his FAT CAT INAUGURAL which is being paid for by the Wall Street Bankers who didn't support the MITTSTER!
Whatever...that guy's Preaching doesn't BELONG in an Inaugural Celebration that "WE THE PEOPLE" supported!
It's like Obama took a long, sharp stick and Poked it in the EYE ..Once Again to people who worked hard to elect him. THIS TIME...it draws huge blood running down the cheeks of those who thought he wouldn't bring Right WING RELIGION into the Debate of America.
Maybe many of you think that this is Obama playing that Chess Game...or that he's Playing the RW against itself by putting this Fundie, Disgusting POS with calling Homosexuality a SIN into the Dialogue (so that All Americans will be Represented on the Far Right..into the fold." BUT...when has OBAMA EVER CHAMPIONED the FAR LEFT of even the LEFT of JFK, LBJ? Instead he "PLAYS BOTH SIDES AGAINST THE MIDDLE"...but HIS MIDDLE is so RIGHT OF CENTER IT BETRAYS US ALL!
GAMESMAN HE IS....but, this as a Christian Episcopalian, myself,defies anyone who would follow the teachings of Christ who brought in everyone...to Move Forward in Inclusiveness. Notice that the National Cathedral in DC just Married a Gay Couple and that this is a wonderful step for GLBT Unions...and yet Obama choses this Nut Job from the Right as an EXAMPLE ...for WHAT? FOR WHAT? What did Obama think he would achieve with this incredibly Horrendous Choice... Or, Who runs his Inauguration Committee that need to be Chastised?
Our President looks like a Divider with this choice...just as he's done with Hegal vs. Brennan. Looks Good on One Side but Dark on the other.
leftstreet
(36,097 posts)I agree with you
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Sorry...this choice for Inauguration is so OTT...it's whatever...sorry.. very upset about this.
no problem
tblue37
(65,215 posts)I get pissed off about a lot of these choices, but then when I think about it, I think maybe he doesn't involve himself in such decisions, but lets his "team" take care of all the logistics, while he does other things.
If the team is careless, what another poster mentioned might be exactly what has happened: maybe they thought,"Ooooh, this guy is a rising star. I bet he'll be a popular and 'cool' choice!" Then, when they find out that he is guilty of really creepy statements, they are unwilling to be seen backing down, and by the time the mess catches Obama's attention, he feels it's too late to make a change.
(Of course, if this is what happened, I think he should change it anyway, because it's never too late to reject bigotry.)
historylovr
(1,557 posts)be reprimanded, at the very least. The guy could be a security risk for all they knew. The excuse of a careless team making choices really doesn't fly here. He has a trail, and it doesn't take long to do basic research. No, this was deliberate.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)You wrote for a lot of us.
--Liberal Protestant semi-Christian straight person here.
Glad that you pointed out POB's less-than-enthusiastic support for the jobs that formerly kept quite a few people out of poverty and in their communities.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)and it's like we are all some kind of CABAL together...when, in fact, there are followers of Christ's teachings who aren't all some "Book of Revlationions" advocates like the worshiping Fundie Evangelicals" and I thought OUR VOICES needed to be heard over Obama's pick for one of his Inauguration Pastors.
Thanks for understanding. I wish more of us here on DU would speak up against what we feel are Moral Issues that speak more to the "Golden Rule." (Do Unto Others as You Would Have Them Do Unto You).....It's what I grew up with and it's a good understanding of Christianity that has nothing to do with Tarted Up fools spewing stuff on Trinity Broadcasting Network for Big Bucks.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Change... whoo wee...
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)forestpath
(3,102 posts)dlwickham
(3,316 posts)I tried to google this guy when he was announced and really couldn't find anything on his views on gays
QC
(26,371 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)It really doesn't much matter if he keeps his comments brief.
spanone
(135,781 posts)ForgoTheConsequence
(4,867 posts)Then he should stand up for his LGBT supporters who are already kicked around and oppressed and do something about this.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and said not to judge others unless you yourself are without fault. So I guess if 'Christians' are folks who reject every single teaching of Jesus and instead do the opposite, then yeah, sure he's a big Christian. But if Jesus has anything to do with that faith, then this is diametrically opposed to everything he taught about every aspect of this event.
Funny that 'Christians' hear the words of the 'Christ' and say 'but we don't do it that way, we LOVE to pray in public, it's tradition!' then they find some words from Paul and insist that THOSE words are hyper exacting condemnations of 'those people'.
They are hate soaked hypocrites. That's according to that Jesus guy they don't listen to.
Turn CO Blue
(4,221 posts)SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)Riley18
(1,127 posts)those that voted for him are not good enough to deliver a benediction. So there were no clergy who were not bigots capable of saying a prayer? Just like Arne Duncan is the only fool good enough to run education into the ground.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)agracie
(950 posts)Politicub
(12,165 posts)flashback
KG
(28,751 posts)still_one
(92,060 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Aww, fuck it. I'm starting to get really tired of this Third-Way Manny shtick. No matter how absurd or outrageous I pretend to be, reality makes me look like downright cautious.
Feh.
At least, unlike the maniac benedicting at Obama's first inaugural, this guy hasn't said I'm going to go to Hell because I'm Jewish. As far as I know. And I'm not even going to check, because I don't want to know.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Probably doesn't help that no matter how far you go, you discover others remain ahead of you.
As for this, President Obama seems to have an almost pathological desire to screw with his own supporters -- like the guy is a troll or something.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)That can't actually happen. I'm pretty sure.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)but, Love Ya!....he even got to the soul of Protestant Episcopalians on this last "Poke Stick in Eye to Draw Blood" ...so we have much in common.
Our "Commonality" is the WAY TO THE FUTURE...not this Dividing that is going on.
Whatever...just had to say that...because I'm so upset...I'm probably not making sense except to those like YOU ....who get it! (IOWD's...how distraught so many of us have become no matter what side of the blanket we fall on.)
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)The nice thing about Third Way Manny is that you can make up a set of maybe 6 macros which you can easily engage anytime anything less than stellar is pointed out about the President. Not much thinking involved (apropos since blind obedience doesn't take thinking either).
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,867 posts)Why not have representatives from the Klan, Aryan Nations, Westborough Baptist church, etc?
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Then "The List" gets posted tomorrow after things calm down a touch.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)Yet another indefensible move from OurPOTUS.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)Or will get it when the post delivers. I asked the President if he didn't know a man of God who doesn't preach hateful things.
otohara
(24,135 posts)So Disappointing
KoKo
(84,711 posts)KICK!
Initech
(100,029 posts)I thought genocide-supporting Rick Warren was bad enough, now it's this douchebag.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Somebody F***d up BIG TIME. If it was his own decision then.....
Volaris
(10,266 posts)had any kind of actual "Moral" Convictions whatsoever, he wouldn't be within 20 miles of this President's inaguaration if he could at all help it, seeing as Obama has done some good work for "Teh Gays".
Just more proof that Mr. Barnum was RIGHT about America's Suckers.
Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)I expected better of my President.
Volaris
(10,266 posts)(on edit) lol well fuck nevermind, I just checked the breaking news forums hahaha. My bad,
obamanut2012
(26,041 posts)DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)obamanut2012
(26,041 posts)Jesus Queen Mother Word Christ
I am actually really shocked President Obama did this again.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)Shocked and angry. But not at all surprised by the smug high grounders up thread making excuses for this shit.
obamanut2012
(26,041 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)TDale313
(7,820 posts)Shivering Jemmy
(900 posts)That's what I'd like to know.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)He's actually been great on the issues...why throw a bone to the knuckledraggers?
Can ANYBODY explain why Pastor Louie(and doesn't a guy who's known as "Pastor Louie" sound a tad skeezy to start with?)deserves this gig, or what The Big O might possibly think he brings to the table?
Can't think of any reason to do this when you're never gonna have to run for re-election again.
Erose999
(5,624 posts)WHOSE GOT A PLATE OF SOMETHING?
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Sorry, really I am, but it was right there...
A little levity...Kathy Griffin wouldn't have passed it up.
cecilfirefox
(784 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)First (that I can recall) we have him offering up Social Security for destruction.
Then he passes permanent tax cuts on the wealthy earning 250-399K per year.
Now he is sending a GIANT "fuck you" to anyone who cares about equality (which damn well should be everyone posting here).
Behind the Aegis
(53,919 posts)So much for "It Get's Better."
But, I guess, it is "just one prayer", right?
JohnnyLib2
(11,211 posts)historylovr
(1,557 posts)I'd hoped for better this time around, but sadly I'm not surprised either.
Erose999
(5,624 posts)bigotry.... fuck this motherfucking shit.
By inviting fucking creepers like "Louie Giggolo" to the inauguration, he is legitimizing whatever creepy bullshit they are advocating. This fucking asshole bigot is getting a pat on the back and an "attaboy" from institutional power.
If Obama were really on the up-and-up concerning LGBT rights, he'd use his pulpit to take these fuckers down a couple of pegs... not share the stage with them.
Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)brooklynite
(94,302 posts)Jonathan Karl @jonkarl
Rev Gigilo, who had been selected to give the inaugural invocation, has been removed from the program
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)God is love, but they do the opposite, the hate thing.
And in my inbox this morning, FLOTUS begging for money same from Plouffe. They don't seem to understand how fucked up they seem. Promoting the Aryan Nations would be no different.
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)as Barack Obama. I wish some people would point that out once in a while too.
obamanut2012
(26,041 posts)WeekendWarrior
(1,437 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)lemme guess. this is one of those "churches" that's a converted Costco, has a rock band and million-dollar sound system.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)I think each and every one of them owes you an personal and heart felt apology.. and a fruit basket.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)dbackjon
(6,578 posts)If we hadn't made a stink, he would still be in place.
The President, and everyone defending him should be the ones apologizing.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Are you trying to tell me that your president had no idea what was going on 4 times?
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)That's not counting the other people he chose to represent him in other capacities with equally destructive views pertaining to LGBT citizens
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)throughout their career. Even Joe Biden has said some stupid shit about minorities. Harry Reid. Others. It doesn't bother me.
Know what does? POLICY!!
I don't care what you may think about me or say about me as a black woman so long as at the end of the day, your voting record, your policies are not bigoted. Democrats and liberals are NOT above reproach. There is racism, anti-gay/lesbian, sexism, and all kinds of bigotry that exists on the Left as it does on the Right.
I have always believed, however, that it is the POLICY that is most damaging, not beliefs. Not words.
The pastor is an asshole. He is a bigot.
The president? There's NOTHING in his policy that is anti-gay, anti-LGBT, racist, or whatever. And where it does exist, I would hope that the president and the Democratic Party would work to eradicate that. I have faith that the president wants to do the right thing; has tried to do the right thing.
We should hold his feet to the fire when the POLICY goes the wrong way. A bigoted pastor? He can kiss my ass. A bigoted public policy ? Unacceptable.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I'm going to put you on ignore, where everyone who defends bigotry belongs, in my opinion.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)boilerbabe
(2,214 posts)unfuckingbelievable.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)So no, on this the President does not get a pass. After Warren he should have been much more careful in who he picked. He was not.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Melissa Eldrige and her longtime partner would inspire the pastor to change. There is evidence that the more exposure to LGBT people, loved ones, friends, the more understanding.
This year, the president has invited another LGBT activist to say a few words during the ceremony. Maybe he feels that by exposing this pastor to others not like-minded would prompt some understanding.
I happen to think that the president is a good man. Not sinister. Not conniving. Not hateful. And not a bigot.
I believe that he thinks people can change. They can evolve.
Cory Booker did:
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/10/cory_booker_i_hated_gays/
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)2. apologize for WHAT, exactly?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)no matter what the president says or does, the problem is YOU.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)yardwork
(61,533 posts)RedCloud
(9,230 posts)always appoint right wing jackoffs. No jobs for "us".
hateful right wing preachers with too much influence.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I thought our President said that he has "evolved".
Guess not.
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
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KoKo
(84,711 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:58 PM - Edit history (1)
Here is Giglio's withdrawal statement:
-----
A spokeswoman for Giglio sent ThinkProgress his statement:
January 10, 2014
I am honored to be invited by the President to give the benediction at the upcoming inaugural on January 21. Though the President and I do not agree on every issue, we have fashioned a friendship around common goals and ideals, most notably, ending slavery in all its forms.
Due to a message of mine that has surfaced from 15-20 years ago, it is likely that my participation, and the prayer I would offer, will be dwarfed by those seeking to make their agenda the focal point of the inauguration. Clearly, speaking on this issue has not been in the range of my priorities in the past fifteen years. Instead, my aim has been to call people to ultimate significance as we make much of Jesus Christ.
Neither I, nor our team, feel it best serves the core message and goals we are seeking to accomplish to be in a fight on an issue not of our choosing, thus I respectfully withdraw my acceptance of the Presidents invitation. I will continue to pray regularly for the President, and urge the nation to do so. I will most certainly pray for him on Inauguration Day.
Our nation is deeply divided and hurting, and more than ever need Gods grace and mercy in our time of need.
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/01/10/1429501/anti-gay-pastor-removed-from-inaugural-program/
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)This does not change my pro-gay stance and support of gay rights, equal protection under the law. Besides I have always felt anyone so rabidly gay in their speech is a lot like Bishop Eddie Long - deep deep in the closet with their gay love. Don't be distracted by the bullshit.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)So which of your rights are you willing to give up? Would you be okay with being a second class citizen by law? Would you also be okay with your governmental leader propping up those working to keep you as second class citizens?
Perhaps this religious leader could be replaced by one of the KKK religious leaders.... I mean we do want to celebrate diversity right?