All men watch porn, scientists find

[Little Star]

The Telegraph
By Jonathan Liew

All men watch porn, scientists find
Scientists at the University of Montreal launched a search for men who had never looked at pornography - but couldn't find any.

“We started our research seeking men in their 20s who had never consumed pornography,” said Professor Simon Louis Lajeunesse. “We couldn't find any.”

Although hampered in its original aim, the study did examined the habits of those young men who used pornography – which would appear to be all of them.

Prof Lajeunesse interviewed 20 heterosexual male university students who consumed pornography, and found on average, they first watched pornography when they were 10 years old.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/6709646/All-men-watch-porn-scientists-find.html

Is this even possible that they couldn't find any men in their 20s who had never consumed pornography?

[samsingh]

1. possibly not

[L0oniX]

2. So all men are bad.

[hrmjustin]

3. I remember when I was in college with my boyfriend we used to have parties on Friday nights, and

for fun we used to put the playboy channel on and we would all laugh are asses off and discuss what we just saw. The girls would laugh just as much as the guys.

[Agschmid]

125. Well let me put it this way...

Some of those things can be very confusing. Haha.

[redqueen]

4. Irresponsible journalism.

I'm sure its hard to find men who have never seen porn.

It isn't hard to find men who aren't in the habit of watching it for ethical reasons or otherwise.

[hedgehog]

20. Exactly ! I suspect everyone has taken a look just out of curiosity. The question is

how many make it a habit.

[AgingAmerican]

46. Don't have to have a 'habit'

It's normal to watch it at least sometimes.

[Warren DeMontague]

168. BLASPHEMY!!!!

[Drunken Irishman]

252. I mean, what else am I going to masturbate to?

[AgingAmerican]

253. Magazines are so pre-2000

n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

268. I know. The venerable smut shack has gone the way of other beloved American Institutions

Like MTV actually playing music.

[Atman]

60. Yeah, a priest or a televangelist!

[Whisp]

65. and then there is the definition problem...

what is porn?

Looking at Playboy? I don't know, maybe it is these days.

[Warren DeMontague]

162. I am sure there are men- a very small minority- who *never* look at porn, naked pictures, etc.

For purposes of visual arousal, etc.

However, that sliver of population is undoubtedly dwarfed by the number of men who will happily lie about something they think is none of someone else's damn business, particularly if they know the lie will prevent them from having to endure a finger-wagging lecture.

[seabeyond]

165. pro porn men seem to be the only ones wagging their fingers in this thread. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

167. Hah?

Wha?

[dlwickham]

227. it's not fingers they're wagging

[seabeyond]

231. well, arent you a dlwick... so funneeeee. nt

[dlwickham]

242. Yes I am

HA!

[Phlem]

247. Alert! Alert!

my sensibilities have been hurt! Alert! Alert!



-p

[Warren DeMontague]

250. Its why I never go into these threads

Without protective headgear.

[Phlem]

254. Nice gear.

I think I'm going to buy 12 of them for the last few threads I've been in.

-p

[dlwickham]

255. yet another one I need to tell to bite my ass

[Phlem]

256. Oh no you D'int

You B....!
Stop it

-p

[Warren DeMontague]

269. Duck, It's Huge!

[Warren DeMontague]

190. "Irresponsible" journalism, to me, is what Judith Miller did at the NY Times to enable the Iraq War.

What is "irresponsible" about this, other than the fact that it inconveniently collides headlong with a cherished narrative?

[Denninmi]

5. I'm 47, I have never watched porn.

Someone at school slipped me a Playboy or Penthouse when I was 15, I thought it was pretty vulgar.

Some of the scenes in movies and tv are pretty explicit, about as close as I come.

[Orrex]

6. Sounds like you need to call the University of Montreal

Whether or not they believe you is another matter, of course...

[ailsagirl]

140. LOL

[seabeyond]

9. and right there answering the question, you would have to say yes. any woman not seen porn?

the question was ridiculous and based for agenda. not a lot to this study to validate the "all men do porn"

it is a garbage study.

[RomneyLies]

10. So you looked at that Playboy or Penthouse when you were 15?

You consumed porn if you did and I don't see how you can come to the conclusion it was vulgar if you didn't look at it.

[Denninmi]

22. The question was, I believe, watched, as in video.

Not "have you ever seen"

On edit, ok, my bad for skimming and not reading carefully. Thread title says watched, but quoted link says consumed, so yes you are correct.

[RomneyLies]

24. Misleading headline

The scientists used the word consume. The article writer used the word watch.

[CreekDog]

42. Warning: should not be taken internally

because of me, there's a warning!

[wercal]

109. There's the definition problem

A late seventies playboy didn't show much more than breasts. Nude figures have been painted and sculpted and not considered pornographic.

[deutsey]

126. ?

Playboy showed much more than breasts in the late '70s (I grew up then and snuck more than my share of peeks of the magazine). They airbrushed everything and put a glossiness to their photos that made the images highly idealized, but they definitely showed everything. I think the '60s Playboys may have been more suggestive than revealing, but I'm not as familiar with those.

[wercal]

141. I grew up in the same era

All I remember is breasts and bush. No up close detailed shots of genetalia. Even to this day, Playboy is very tame when compared to true 'porn' magazines.

[pipoman]

143. Yep..me too

they were in barber shops at the time..

[klook]

229. "Son, you got a haircut just 4 days ago, didn't you?

I'm glad you're taking pride in your grooming, but this is getting expensive! Why not wait 'til next Saturday?"

[june starling]

59. Good for you!

Sounds like you have high standards and respect for women.

[Atman]

63. That's not what it sounds like to me.

It sounds like shrieking music from when Janet Leigh is about to get stabbed in the shower! LOL!

[bama_blue_dot]

66. So, if a man watches porn

it is because he has no respect for women? What if a woman watches it? Does that mean she has no respect for men?

[Denninmi]

85. Thank you.

I have always considered myself a feminist and always tried to do the right thing. I have my reasons, good ones, which I just posted below.

[Courtesy Flush]

111. So a nude female body breeds misogyny?

If a liberated woman chooses to be nude for cameras, or in public (and I have several friends who do) they are expressing themselves freely, but if anyone sees them, they don't respect women?

I really do get what you're saying. There are women who are exploited by pornography. But there are also women who model in the nude, and feel like this is their form of artistic expression. Meanwhile, their pictures are considered to be porn by many.

Pictures that actually are porn sometimes look very much like my friends' nude photos.

Every week I go to a live figure drawing session with a nude model (sometimes male, sometimes female). There are people who would call this pornography (and they do).

It's not as black and white as you want it to be.

Also, your post assumed that only women are objects of porn. Can't young men be exploited?

[Warren DeMontague]

163. Yes, because sex is bad.

[Atman]

62. You thought Playboy was VULGAR?

You've never been married? If so, did you only have relations with your while wearing footsie pajamas in a pitch black room? I could see someone thinking Penthouse being "vulgar," as has always been much more hardcore than Playboy. But if you think Playboy is vulgar, you could never see the great fountains in Europe, or tour the Museum of fine art. Wow.

But I guess it's kind of moot, as you do admit that even you have "consumed" pornography.

[Denninmi]

83. There is a difference between art and exploitation.

Wow, yet another armchair psychiatrist who knows everything about me, even better than I know myself.

I have good reason to show women, all women, the respect they deserve, and that extends to avoiding the product of an industry that is notorious for predatory practices including forced prostitution and under aged sex workers.

I grew up in a household where I watched my father abuse my mother every day possible for decades, emotionally, physically, sexually. Also my older sisters to a somewhat lesser extent, and me to a great extent because he had a special hatred of me.

When you can tell me that at age 7 you watched a man hold the blade of a hunting knife against his wife's throat just enough to draw a drop or two of blood for what seemed like an eternity of 10 or 15 minutes while telling her she needed to "confess" to him the vivid details of sex acts with the dozens of non-existent "lovers" he believed she entertained in their bed daily while he was at work, something he conjured up in a very sick mind, we can talk about why I respect women enough to never act like my father did in any way. And that extends to avoiding the products put out by an industry that brutalizes many women ensnared in it.

I had to pick up the pieces of my family after decades of extreme abuse, which was hard not only because I observed it, but because I was a victim of it as well. When I was young, I observed numerous examples of deviant sexual behavior by my father, things I won't go into. Later, I had the pleasure of being pinned down quite a few times at the business end of a loaded rifle or shotgun while he berated me, my supposed lack of masculinity, his belief that I was gay, and his general extreme hatred of me. It was a fine way for a teenage boy to live, but I knew even then how wrong these patterns of behavior are, and I vowed to do everything possible to runaway from that pattern and live in a way that would let me look in the mirror and know I am a good man.

Art is art, I've spent plenty of time in museums and enough time taking art history to recognize the difference between healthy expression of human sexuality and exploitation. Is all porn the product of exploitative practices, most likely not. Is it easy to tell the difference? Probably not. Better to avoid it all IMHO.

So,,yeah, yuck it up and feel superior, see if I give a rat's ass. I know who I am and what I stand for.

[seabeyond]

84. .

my nieces BF feels the same as you, and it has to do with his father. he wont talk about it. but he is very clear on how he feels about it. he will not allow that shit in his life. he also refuses to interact with his father.

[riderinthestorm]

117. Wow! (((hugs))). You won't get a lot of support on DU for this but please know that I hear you

and understand 100%.

[Nay]

124. A hug for you, Den, and thanks for standing up.

I think too many men are too cavalier about porn.

[brooklynite]

138. Hope you've never hired a housing contractor...

While the guys who came to your house were probably well paid and liked what they were doing, the "industry" certain exploits unskilled, undocumented day laborors with low wages, no benefits and weak safety rules, and we certainly can't make distinctions, can we?

[dawg]

142. I think you're a classy guy.

Sorry you've had to go through so much.

[Atman]

145. I agree that he's a "classy guy."

He went through some serious shit in his life, obviously has a different outlook.

Consider what I just posted...he has a different outlook.

He had to deal with stuff most of us could never imagine.

But does that mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON should have that same reaction? I'm can only feel deep sympathy and concern for what our DU brother went through. But I don't agree that because one particular person dealt with horrible experiences in his life means that every other person must internalize those experiences.

I did NOT experience anything like what the OP posted. I've had my issues, but nothing like that. So what is the conclusion? Because some people have had bad sexual experiences, ALL sexual experiences must be stopped? No porn, no PG Rated Playboy nudies? Seriously? I appreciate our DU friend's experiences. That doesn't mean we ALL must hate on the human figure.

[dawg]

147. I think the solution is to let adults judge for themselves and to respect everyone's choices.

I'm a pretty strong believer in allowing adults to watch whatever they want to watch in the privacy of their own homes. But we also need to respect the opinions of those who don't like porn.

Just as with religion, true freedom means that you can choose it or reject it. But the trend on the internet lately, and especially on DU, is that porn must not be criticized. I find this attitude silly and defensive. Porn isn't for everyone. It almost certainly is harmful for some. For others, it may be harmless. For still others, it might provide a little extra spark that helps keep their relationships interesting.

But the people who do not like it deserve as much respect as those who do. Their opinions are just as valid.

[Atman]

149. Great response. Thank you.

I wasn't intending to discount the respondent's life experiences. I couldn't, because I didn't know about them when I responded.

I have a short fuse for people who say "because x happened in my life, your life must correspond to y."

[Denninmi]

160. I think I need to apologize, too.

Short fuse is a pretty apt term for me these days, too. Sorry for that.

I didn't mean to imply that everyone should do as I do, regarding porn or anything in life. All we can do is make educated decisions. My issue with porn isn't sexuality, I'm as much of a "regular guy" as anyone else. My concern is with the conditions in that industry - I avoid it for the very same reason I refuse to shop at Wal-mart, predatory and exploitive business practices towards their workers.

We are adults, we can make our own decisions.

Again, sorry for the anger.

[Atman]

164. Peace!

I think your post made many valid points -- we all come from different places, after all. I didn't take your post for "anger," we're all entitled to our opinions, and our opinions are based upon our experiences. Don't think for a minute that you didn't open my eyes a bit. I hope I didn't sound like a total assh*le!

.

[Helen Reddy]

151. *just hugs n/t

[PasadenaTrudy]

153. My partner

is 50 and feels the same. He is an artist, too, and a feminist. He thinks porn is stupid and boring. He would much rather put his mental energy into art-making. I actually know a few guys that have never watched porn or looked at girly mags. One is a composer, one a scientist, one another artist. All very cool guys.

[Tsiyu]

180. Wow

Thank you for your philosophy on porn.

Funny how people who love even the most violent porn and want no restrictions on its consumption - no matter how awful the conditions for the "actors" - will jump on you and make you feel wrong for making the choice NOT to consume it.

Then tell you because you saw a PLayboy at 15, you are JUST LIKE all the people who live and breathe to consume it every day of their lives.

They want "live and let live" for themselves, but they reserve the right to judge YOU as deficient or not normal because you don't do the same things THEY do.

It's a strange world we live in. I am sorry for your experiences, and I thank you for being brave enough to speak for yourself against the tide of people who want everyone to be JUST LIKE THEY ARE in regards to porn.

Some of us have a lot more regard for human life than others. That's all. And no one will change my mind about that.

If you can only get off watching people being raped and abused, screaming, bleeding, getting called vile names, I don't think you have much regard for human life.

I have no probelm with erotica, or even video of sexual acts, but the violent, deviant shit is for losers.

[joeglow3]

220. And yet a recent study shows porn stars are more adjusted with higher self-esteem

I think you need to leave the anecdotes and look at hard evidence.

[LanternWaste]

139. Kinda tough for a lot of us when other people have

Kinda tough for a lot of us when other people have different opinions. Forces many of us to trivialize them and their lifestyle to better validate our own habits.

But I guess that's kind of a moot point, too...

[Deep13]

91. So, you never had a VCR then. nt

[Denninmi]

93. What is that even supposed to mean?

Last edited Mon Jan 14, 2013, 12:39 PM - Edit history (1)

That I only avoided it because of lack of opportunity, rather than lack of interest?

I have some pretty deeply held beliefs about the ills of the sex industry. My right to believe what I want and stand up for my beliefs. Which includes not supporting an exploitative industry which often brutalizes and abuses the women caught up in it.

I don't drink, either, as a result of a family tragedy, where the family watched my uncle linger in ICU and then die weeks later after being hit by a drunk driver. 33 year old cop with a wife and five kids. So, does that mean something is wrong with me because I don't go out and get stupid drunk and behave like an ass then puke off the bender the next day?

So, yeah, no porn, no booze must make me a loser in the eyes of the herd. I guess I should get a role model like Charlie Sheen and learn how to live the good life, eh?

[Deep13]

116. Well, hurray for you, then. nt

[Little Star]

123. Thank you for being you, not one of the herd, Denninmi and...

I would bet my bottom dollar your family and real life friends thank you too.

[Honeycombe8]

7. I wonder how hard they looked, and what they considered porn. UK has bare breasts in its newspapers

If they considered that porn, I can understand not being able to find a man who hadn't read the newspaper at least once. I think it's called "Page 6," because that's where the topless shots are.

But I wonder if they asked religious men in the U.S.

[hedgehog]

25. "Religious men" is an ambiguous concept. Some of the heaviest users of porn

are ministers

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=26023

There are men who avoid porn based on their religious beliefs, and there are atheist males who avoid it out of repect for themselves and others.

[Confusious]

31. Page 3 girls

I've been watching a lot of British shows lately. It shows up in the current events.

That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it.

[hughee99]

115. I suspect the search consisted of walking up and down St. Catherine St. on a Saturday night at 11pm

and asking the guys there. I was also curious to know how they went about looking for such people.

[madokie]

8. So that explains the hairy palms

[RKP5637]

52. And glasses!!! LOL

[madokie]

67. LOL

[bluestateguy]

11. What do you think of the argument that porn can cause sexual dysfunction?

Like delayed ejaculation or impotence. The authors seem to suggest that the links are not there.

I am not taking a position here, just asking a question.

[Confusious]

33. Nope, doesn't happen

As far as every guy I know who has seen porn, which would every one

(could make you feel a bit inadequate, but if you're thinking about porn enough to make it do that, you have other problems)

Other things cause that, such as emotional or biological problems.

[sibelian]

72. Seemingly it *can* happen, but only with a real dedication to porn use over ordinary sex.

There are some message boards dedicated to this. People tell some pretty scary stories...

It's worth bearing in mind that the amount and type of porn available is nothing like what it used to be. Some people get really obsessed with it.

[Deep13]

92. Delayed ejaculation is a dysfunction? nt

[riderinthestorm]

119. Yes. Some of us women like to see our partners get off too.

As a connoisseur of many men, I had a couple who never did ejaculate or come.

I felt sorry for them. An hour later and they were still trying work it out while I was done. I thrill when men come - if I can work it out and come with, what a blast. But the sooner or later, if a man can't manage a climax I couldn't sustain the "motion" if you will and had to call it quits.

Its as bad for women when a man doesn't have a climax, as it is (presumably) for a man when a woman doesn't climax during sex.

[Deep13]

150. Wow, TMI. Thanks, though. nt

[Tsiyu]

182. You asked the question, didn't you?

Funny how the most ardent lovers of porn are the most sqeamish when a women starts talking about sex.

Amazing phenomenon, that....

[Warren DeMontague]

208. Doesn't bother me.

'course, I don't know if I'm an ardent lover of porn. I am a realist, though, and the realist in me says that consenting adults watching other consenting adults screw is not a big deal, and in most cases, a relatively healthy way to relieve stress.

As for the allegedly squeam-inducing woman upthread, my advice to her would be to tell her lover to knock it off (you know, "it&quot for a few days, or a week... not because "porn is bad" but because sometimes waiting can be fun.

See if he's not a bit quicker on the, um, draw after that.

[Tsiyu]

213. The poster of whom you speak

Last edited Wed Jan 16, 2013, 10:50 AM - Edit history (1)

was talking about the past. I don't think she needs any advice.

I just find it hilarious that SOME guys can watch all kinds of sexual activity and not have a problem with IMAGES, but when we start having an adult conversation using WORDS, suddenly they become prudes extraordinaire.

"Ooh. Ooh. A Gurl is talking about SEX! Cover your ears, boys! We don't really care to KNOW how women feel about their sexual experiences!" Jayzuss, the immaturity boggles the mind.

And NO I am not talking about YOU, so don't go off on a tear demanding an apology.....


Edit to add: Of course, it's subtle, but "objects" shouldn't talk, should they? They should be passive and silent and have no opinions about the "male domain" of sex. THIS is what is hilarious to me, but also rather sad in another way.

[Warren DeMontague]

221. You realize you're arguing with an opponent that exists only in your imagination?

You know, the pro-porn person who thinks women shouldn't watch porn, women are "objects that shouldn't talk" or "have opinions about sex".

It's silly, if someone actually expressed that shit here, please, give me a link and I will personally tell them it's silly.

But I'm willing to bet no one here has ever said anything like that.

[Tsiyu]

222. As I said before, every thing said is not about you

Making observations on a post does not mean I am making those observations about you specifically.

I am speaking what I see as some attitudes here, and IRL, and having some fun, as much as you make loony posts about all the Victorians roaming these parts, and babbling about "usual suspects" and such.

I normally don't enter these debates, because it's exhausting fighting all the strawmen, and their able creators.

[Warren DeMontague]

224. Oh, im happy to elaborate on that usual suspects thing.

Its interesting that one argument floated about "defensiveness" is, "YUR just like the paranoid gun people!!!!" Ha, no.

For one, you know what? If someone had recently walked into a school and killed 26 people in rapid succession with a DVD of Rocco Does Prague, you're damn right I would be like, okay i am amenable to a discussion on regulating this. But it wouldnt happen- because guns, specifically AR 15s and attendant high capacity ammo clips, are designed for one purpose only- to kill large numbers of humans in a short period of time.

Conversely, Porn - by and for consenting adults, mind you - is a relatively benign diversion for millions, and a stress reliever. And the objections aren't based in science so much as morality and authoritarianism. As such, the "arguments" don't mirror so much the gun debate as the marijuana one. Even down to the "its so much worse than what you used to smoke" tack.

You yourself admit that you're not familiar with the material you claim to be concerned about, but are relying on hearsay and anecdote about how "its so terrible now".

So, yeah, about those usual suspects and my supposed imagination regarding the real agenda? They were against that "better" 70s porn, too. And the 80s. Like the pot war, its always a "much worse crisis now" and as such requires we "do something".

If you ask for a specific example of a graphic visual depiction of a penetrative hetero sex act, or even a naked picture of an attractive woman that a hetero man might get turned on by, that would not "objectifying" and "problematic" and even (here's the kicker) "porn", guess what? THERE ARENT ANY.

The bottom line is, the one umbrella definition of "porn" that constitutes objectionable material? ...anything a hetero man might get turned on by. Period.

[AgingAmerican]

209. Has the exact opposite effect on me

n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

267. You will be informed in short order that your personal experience is not valid

If it is inconvenient to a cherished narrative and agenda.

[NYC_SKP]

12. Sometimes I think that the number of university "studies" that are truly valid is very small.

I've conducted studies, I've seen plenty of studies designed and conducted, and some of these published.

Especially with studies about human behaviors, I see a lot of bad research studies.

It's so easy to use a poor design and to misinterpret the data that, in the end, I think maybe only 20% of these studies are of value.

[KittyWampus]

18. Too often, I think it's people with and agenda/preconceived ideas who set up studies

to confirm their assumptions.

I just googled this professor and found some of his comments that indicate he reaches conclusions not supported by his research.

[RomneyLies]

26. Maybe some university should conduct a study on the validity of university studies.

[sendero]

74. Not just university studies...

.. MOST studies. Most are funded to come to a conclusion and they will use whatever "science" necessary to reach that conclusion.

As for this "study", I'm pretty sure that most men look at porn, why wouldn't they be interested in something as innately required by biology after food water and air.

[RKP5637]

99. As we used to say, publish or perish! Hence, there's a lot of crap out there by refuted experts. n/t

[Speck Tater]

13. Start with the fact that ...

...every man who has ever been to a friend's bachelor party has been exposed to porn whether he wanted to be or not. I even remember a bachelor party back before the invention of VHS video tape when one guy brought a 8mm movie projector, folding screen, and a pile of black and white, silent 8mm porn films. And yes, they were just as raunchy and explicit as modern porn. Plus, that kind of porn was illegal back then, which made it even more "exciting".

[hfojvt]

61. I've never been to a bachelor party

but do they ever bother to define 'porn'. Does the sex scene in "The Terminator" count?

How about the scene in "Pump up the Volume" where the female lead takes off her shirt?

[Speck Tater]

64. Who is "they"?

"They" have defined porn a lot of different ways. Which scene in which movies "counts" depends entirely on who is doing the defining. After all, in the Arab world they consider Lady's Home Journal obscene because it shows women with arms naked, even above the elbow! How shocking!

[hfojvt]

69. fortunately we have the 2nd Amendment

the right to bare arms.

"They" is people doing this study.

[redqueen]

14. 10 years old. nt

[trumad]

15. I just don't like Bad Acting.

[jeff47]

55. You're paying attention to the acting?

I never really understood why they bothered trying to have a story in porn movies.

[deafskeptic]

73. hmm

I think porn with stories are for the chick market. I've heard that women prefer porn with stories.

[NeedleCast]

174. I'm a Male Who Kinda Likes The Stories

So does my wife, and we watch them together. It's all in good fun/times. Wank porn (no story) porn can be okay too, but I prefer there to be some other level of interaction (even if it is often horribly cheesy).

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. Men in their 20's who grew up with the Internet? Probably not

[KittyWampus]

17. "If porn had impact many claim, you'd just have to show hetero films to a homosexual to change his"

Lajeunesse seems to have an agenda regarding porn and it's effect. Frankly, I don't think much of what I've found regarding his research or conclusions.

Here is a really stupid comment he makes trying to attack those who criticize porn:

Lajeunesse refutes the perverse effect often attributed to pornography. "Aggressors don't need pornography to be violent and addicts can be addicted to drugs, alcohol, gaming and asocial cases are pathological. If pornography had the impact that many claim it has, you would just have to show heterosexual films to a homosexual to change his sexual orientation."

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-12/uom-ate120109.php

[Warren DeMontague]

176. Except, that exact result has been found time & again. The idea that porn "reprograms" brains is BS.

The only people still pushing those discredited theories are Right Wing crazies like Judith Reisman.

[mzteris]

19. misleading and probably wrong

1 - it's not ALL men - it says they sought men in their 20's... and interviewed 20?!? -

2 - Definitely wrong. There are men who don't watch porn. They just didn't find them. Or look for them.

Idiots.

[jeff47]

50. It's not "don't watch porn". It's "not exposed to porn".

Big difference. It's very unlikely that someone will never, ever, ever, ever see anything considered pornographic.

[Warren DeMontague]

169. Wonder why this makes some people so mad.

Last edited Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:12 PM - Edit history (1)

If there are really these millions upon millions of absolutely-never-watch-smut-to-get-off men out there, great!

Especially great for the women whose ethical orientation demands a partner who is a smut-proof man.

All the more reason why we should not fret about the choices of consenting adults. Different strokes and all.

[Tsiyu]

184. Exactly

Those men here who want to try to shame other men who choose not to consume porn are proving that they aren't really "live and let live" types.

They are bullies and frauds.

[Warren DeMontague]

186. I haven't seen anyone giving men a hard time for *not* watching porn, personally.

What I do see, occasionally, is the "don't watch porn, porn harms, watching porn is not progressive" crowd poke their heads up to deliver the occasional anti-porn tirade, upon which the large numbers of people who do watch porn and don't think it's a big deal promptly weigh in and say "um, there's nothing 'not progressive' about consenting adults getting off on watching other consenting adults fuck".

I am glad we agree that no one should judge others for their choices around consenting adult porn- whether that be to NOT look at it, or TO look at it.

[redqueen]

193. They're understandably defensive ... so they project.

They know the majority of porn is degrading, and that many of the actors used are exploited if not abused or even raped. And a few (hopefully just a few) enjoy the humiliation and abuse. They get off on it.

So they pathetically claim that any man who says he doesn't consume porn is simply lying. It's sad, really. Pitiful.

[Tsiyu]

195. I don't know about the majority of porn

because I don't need porn to get off. I haven't seen a porn flick in years. I have a great imagination. But I have heard the horror stories of what is called "porn" these days, and I have read and listened to the testimony of those who have been horrifically exploited so someone else can get their jollies.

I do enjoy looking at pictures of nude men, even though the porn-masters claim I should only get off reading romance novels and that "women are not visually stimulated by sexual imagery." LOL what a crock when MEN say this! They fool themselves into thinking only women need to be attractive and "sexy."

If the only way I could get off is by seeing men being beaten and raped and violently degraded ( not talking about consensual lite stuff, but actual torture of another human ), and if there was even the slightest hint that these "actors" were truly being harmed, I would worry about myself. But the people who DO enjoy this sexual stimulation seem to be more worried about those of us who DON'T need to see anyone degraded violently, than whether or not they are having orgasms while watching another human being abused.

It's absolutely HORRIFYING to them, I suppose, when they realize we don't all need to watch people being gang-raped in order to have an orgasm. Then they must ask themselves why they DO need this type of imagery to get off.

[99Forever]

21. WTF?

And the point is what?



There's 2 minutes I can't get back.

[KittyWampus]

23. Oh, and his study (of a whopping TWENTY men) says that all men in couples watch porn solo.

Do they tell their partners they are watching porn alone?

What happens when/if their partners finds out?

[Codeine]

27. Why would a partner care?

My fiancee watches porn way more than I ever do, and watches it alone because she likes porn genres I don't care for; why should it bother me?

[Fawke Em]

68. But you obviously know about it.

I think the poster meant "do men TELL their partner they watch it?".

That's determined by the second question, "What does the partner do when they FIND OUT."

[Codeine]

88. But even if I didn't and then found out,

who cares? I found out she watches Toddlers and Tiaras - and that's frankly much worse - and our relationship was fine. Why should anyone be bothered about what their SO rubs one out to?

[Warren DeMontague]

178. I think open and honest communication is important in a relationship.

That goes for stuff like "I like to look at porn" as well as "if you look at porn, it's going to bug me"

I suspect what happens is, oftentimes women are in denial or just clueless about stuff like just how often the average man masturbates.

Then they live together - or worse, rush into getting married - and it's like "holy shit!"

[Tsiyu]

214. Oh, boy

I think a lot of men would be surprised how often women masturbate, as SHOCKING as that may seem!

Oh, wait. It's 2013, but most of us women are just CLUELESS about sex. We're too busy wearing our pearls and high heels and baking pies. Silly us! So we shouldn't have any opinions about it, and we NEVER touch ourselves. SEX belongs to BOYZ. Why do I keep fergettin' that?


Gawd your post made me lol. I like reality, though, and I know a lot of REAL women who love sex and talk openly about it, not these June Cleaver types you seem to know. Maybe you need to get out more...

[seabeyond]

215. exactly. it is fuckin stupid.

there even has to be a voice for that 93 yr old man to be all over his porn. 93 and the libido is like a 19 yr old, really.

lmfao....

[Tsiyu]

216. I'm wondering WHAT world do these guys LIVE in?

We're all just dumb housewives who need you to explain teh SEX to us? FFS!

Makes me really appreciate the men I know who don't feel the need to condescend or act like THEY are the sexperts.

But then, only bad gurls haz orgazms an stuff. If you KNOW about that stuffs and ewe iz a wymmins, ewe R bad, bad bad and ABNORMAL. Cuzz ony mens touches theirselfs!


SEX IS FOR BOYZEZ ONLY so SHUT UP!

The sexism and denial - IT BURNS!

[seabeyond]

217. or, maybe they ought to jump into the real world a little more rather than

spending it on the porn that promotes exactly that about wymminz so they can feel all that manly.

ya think?

unless, the women they are around are not too awfully comfortable sharing that part of their sexuality cause it is not what their man allows or can handle.

i dunno...

all kinds of questions.

or maybe since the womans sexuality is always pushed to the back, maybe they simply have never considered it.

interesting.

thanks.

[Tsiyu]

218. It's an unwinnable debate if your opponent

makes assumptions about you based on your gender.

Women of our generation still heard that "sex is awful evil and you should save it for someone you love" crap, but then we got Cosmo and lots of sex advice. I read about JOng's "zipless fuck" in her book on a plane when I was sixteen.

And most of the young women I know are even more empowered to want good sex. They have no problems discussing their sexuality.

But for some reason, a great number of men around our age are stuck in some time warp. They enjoy telling us we are "clueless about sex" as a way of shaming, like we are all their mothers or something. We should take their unasked for advice cuz they is teh experts on all things sexual!

We should enjoy and embrace the males' sexuality, according to these types, but we shouldn't expect that we would actually KNOW anything about sex ourselves. GAWD forbid we should talk about it, because some guys can view porn 24/7, but can't seem to handle an actual conversation about sexuality. Which seems to imply they feel some "ownership" of human sexuality.

Of course, an object knows nothing and is silent, passive, so they reinforce what we are saying while remaining clueless to their own harmful stereotypes.

[seabeyond]

219. yes. the bottomline though, is a constant attack on womens sexuality to insult us, one way or

another.

a fun article i put in HOF

http://persephonemagazine.com/2011/05/18/because-a-white-guy-said-it/

now, i gotta get on my grocery shopping so hubby can make himself a sammich when he comes home for lunch.

[Warren DeMontague]

226. Again, where are you getting this? Its not from something anyone has actually said.

Keep debating the crowd in your head, if thats what works for you, though.

[Tsiyu]

236. Pot

please do meet kettle.

You are building strawmen so fast, my Zippo has run out of lighter fluid.

Where are the imaginary suspects, dear?

In whose head now?

I think you are the one who sees some conspiracy when here there is just one person talking. You sort of blame every one for everything when they disagree.

It maybe, just may be that you projecteth too much....

[Warren DeMontague]

237. I don't see a conspiracy, I've just been on DU for 9 years and I know the drill.

Last edited Thu Jan 17, 2013, 04:34 AM - Edit history (1)

Here's an example, though, that pertains to you and your responses; upthread you complained, to no one really, that a "TMI" answer to a woman complaining about an excessively-delayed orgasmic man, meant that "men cant handle women talking about sex" and "we dont understand that women have desires and orgasms, too"

Then i weighed in that, personally, the conversation doesn't bug me, and my advice - to the woman's partner, mind you - was to give his system a few days down time..

Well, anyway, somehow THAT response was unacceptable too, and somehow simultaneously indicated that I dont understand women blah blah blah and how dare I offer advice.

Classic cant win: the guy who says TMI, he's out of line for not engaging and being uptight about the discussion. Guy engages the discussion, THAT is out of line too.

Which brings me to the bottom line- I haven't been the one throwing out personal attacks on peoples' sexuality (despite SB's constant refrain about "they use womens sexuality to attack them lol lol&quot these personal attacks have been coming at me, not from me.

Im not really sure what any of it is based on, but it's not based on anything I have actually said, here.


Ps, i dont know you, so you calling me "dear" is probably an inappropriate level of familiarity. Just FYI.

[Phlem]

249. +1

-p

[Warren DeMontague]

225. You never met Gramps.

[Warren DeMontague]

171. Many couples watch it together, and many partners know and dont care at all.

at least, that is the scientific data I have.

[KittyWampus]

28. Some great comments on this at another site. BTW, this "research" is old.

some great comments here:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27083_3-10407102-247.html

The Telegraph must have been desperate for a catchy headline.

[Nye Bevan]

29. They should look in an Amish community (nt)

[johnlucas]

157. I bet money there's Amish porn too

Showing all that bare ankle. Ooooh! Taboo!!

Probably hand drawn though. They don't believe in technology past the 1700s.
John Lucas

[Warren DeMontague]

179. Churn my butter, goodman Brown!

Churn it harder!

[johnlucas]

188. Hilarious!

Hahahahaha!
John Lucas

[jberryhill]

30. "Consumed"?

I've seen plenty of porn, but I never "consumed" any.

[RKP5637]

105. The damn DVDs got pretty hard to digest!!!

[leftstreet]

32. BREAKING: Twenty 20 yr olds watched some porn !!

[Warren DeMontague]

170. I hear the kids are twitting each others facebooks, too. And listening to satanic Mubstep music.

I find the modern world so distressing sometimes, it makes me just want to clap off the lights and go back to bed.

[undeterred]

34. But do they watch it at work?

[rickford66]

35. I had a college roommate who claimed he never masturbated

I suppose that one day there was a huge explosion.

[FrodosPet]

41. If he isn't jerking his gherkin, and not doing anything else

He is probably saving himself from some serious prostate problems down the road.

-----------------------------------------------------

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/masturbation-can-be-good-for-the-over50s-1516792.html

Masturbation can be good for the over-50s
Removal of toxins built up over a lifetime reduces the risk of prostate cancer

Masturbation may be good for you – or bad, depending on your age. The solitary sexual activity that is widely practised but little discussed, is linked with an increased risk of prostate cancer when practised frequently by young men in their twenties and thirties, doctors say.

But by the time men reach their fifties, it may protect against the disease because it helps remove toxins that have built up over a lifetime.

~ snip ~

"One theory is that during the early years the prostate gland is more susceptible to hormonal changes and is still developing. As men age and accumulate toxins from the diet or through their lungs , sexual activity may help release them. Studies have found toxins in the semen and the fluid produced in the prostate. As you age it is more important to flush them out."

~ snip ~

[rickford66]

45. But God created men to be most sexually active early on

We were created to be at our sexual peak between 13 and 21. Why would masturbation be more harmful than sexual relations at that early age? Did God screw up?

[RC]

36. I read the OP, and before I even finished, the question I had was,

What is porn? Define porn. Is it the Sports Illustrated, Swimsuit edition? A Ridged tool Calender? A picture taken at the local swimming pool last summer? A Renaissance painting? Why or why not?
Or are we talking about those intimate, home made, "love" videos, or maybe 'the credit card required', Internet downloads?
DU has even had the un-draped human form posted and left alone.

What is porn in the first place? Ask a thousand people and you will get at least 1250 different responses.
I'm sure most women like to be reminded how evil, dirty, obscene and repugnant their bodies are.
Oh, and just for the record, I think they are Righteous.

[rickford66]

39. Ah, the Rigid Calender

I remember many Miss Rigids. Do they still print them?

[RC]

43. No idea.

I've worked in the offices of a totally different field for so many years, I've lost contact with that crowd.

[rickford66]

47. Did a quick Google

Yup. They're still there. I also remember those pinup calenders in gas stations where you could lift the transparent cover to remove the lady's bikini. You had to be quick, while the no one was looking.

[RKP5637]

101. Yep, I remember those too! n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

177. The masturbation police

Are watching *you*, dirty man.

[SWTORFanatic]

37. I'm 32. In middle school, I was on BBSes and online services like

AOL and Prodigy.

In high school I was on the broader internet. It was impossible to avoid porn. I did not look for it.

It would be even worse for someone younger than me.

[Fearless]

38. I've watched porn. And what's the problem with that?

I find it ridiculous that those who seem morally or ethically against porn, are those that claim to have seen it the least.

[RKP5637]

100. K&R! Porn, BFD to me, unless someone is being exploited. n/t

[Fearless]

122. Exactly.

What's done by consenting adults for money is far less risky then say professional gambling or on the less legal side, drug dealing.

It's not a big deal if done properly.

And people will say oh but it objectifies X Y and Z. That is in regards to a particular instance not the industry. There is perfectly good porn that doesn't objectify. No sense in throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Etc. Etc.

[NashvilleLefty]

40. BREAKING NEWS! A new study reveals that 60% of men admit to masturbation

and 40% of men are liars.

[FirstLight]

44. really...?

I agree that most men are visual creatures when it comes to masturbation, stimulation, etc...but i thought this article was from the Onion for christsakes

[seabeyond]

48. research shows women are as much if not more so cause their sexuality is more fluid.

It is considered an almost forgone conclusion across research disciplines, among pop psychologists of all stripes, and in the general population that men are more “visual” than women when it comes to the way they get turned on. Men, we’re told, are visually aroused, whereas women just need a good sense of humor, and possibly a strong jaw, and they're on board.

This misguided, but pervasive belief can be linked to a host of other gender stereotypes which are further complicated by sexual politics and differences in social power. So arguments which should be challenged, such as the “fact” that men leer more than women do, that they objectify women’s bodies more than women do men’s bodies, and that they just can’t stop watching porn, are explained as somehow being related to a mix of genetics, patriarchy, and simple mindedness. Challenging these ideas can be a monumental task. Researcher bias being what it is, science rarely offers support for these "counter-intuitive" ideas. What's worse, when research does start to complicate matters, the media, and even smart bloggers who should know better, distort the findings beyond recognition.

*

The study, carried out by researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis measured brainwave activity of 264 women as they viewed a series of 55 color slides that contained various scenes from water skiers to snarling dogs to partially-clad couples in sensual poses. The researchers were interested in the speed, strength, and location of brainwave activity of the subjects as they viewed erotic versus non-erotic images.

As they hypothesized, the brainwave activity of participants was markedly different when viewing erotic images versus non-erotic images. But a finding they didn’t expect was that female participant’s response was similar to men. In a prepared statement, lead author Andrey P. Anokhin explained:

"Usually men subjectively rate erotic material much higher than women," he says. "So based on those data we would expect lower responses in women, but that was not the case. Women have responses as strong as those seen in men."

http://sexuality.about.com/b/2006/06/19/new-brain-research-challenges-the-myth-that-men-are-more-visual-than-women.htm

[marions ghost]

128. Uh oh

these days my brainwaves would probably be the same for water skiers, snarling dogs, or partially clad couples....

You see so many partially clad people these days it's kind of It's gotten to the point that if I'm watching a movie, I get something to drink during sex scenes. I honestly skip over the sex scenes in books. What I'm saying is, they're so predictable. It's a case of the big goal being anti-climactical LOL.

No judgment here--I don't care what other people do. Just saying, some of us are bored by the pix and prefer the experience.

[seabeyond]

129. so true.

i read tons of books. can only read so many sex scenes before a big yawn. now, when flipping thru pages, hubby says... more sex. meh...

i just do not watch tv much. i am so fuckin tired of rape for entertainment in so many movies or stripper/prostitute heart of gold scenario that entertain men so, that seems to have to be in every guy flick.

[marions ghost]

130. Yeah

you don't see many movies where the woman (or female sexuality) is portrayed realistically. In fact I can't think of even one right now...and of course there are not many movies where a woman is the protagonist that men would go to see. So it's always a male perspective.

[seabeyond]

134. marions ghost, what is really sad is i do not know

that it is necessarily the mens perspective, but more what our culture is conditioning and feeding the men, that is their perspective. i know that hubby has so reduced what he watches now also cause he is fuckin sick and tired of the crap.

he has said to me with his computer games, football he watches, and shows, that he does not want that crap in them either.

so, i wonder how many men they are turning off. he is much more adamant about what is coming into our house now a days than i am. i try to be fair and so dont say anything about some stuff. he says, nope, dont like it.

i think that is why much of this is a rape "culture". it is not what we are, but what we are being conditioned with to become.

[marions ghost]

135. Agree --

the conditioning is so pervasive we don't really know what men (or women) would be like if they didn't absorb it so easily. We ARE what we SEE. For sure.

I understand & to your hubby for his discipline about what he watches. Junk in, junk out --I say.

My SO watches cooking shows or documentary while others watch sports. He would be an outlier, I suspect. Not that there's anything basically wrong with sports--it's just the nacho (I meant to say macho) climate. Don't need nachos either LOL.

[Rex]

49. They didn't try hard enough imo.

I can guarantee you there are some that have never looked at porn.

[seabeyond]

57. just being on du we have seen porn. it may have been deleted or hidden

but everyone on this planet has seen porn. cannot escape it especially with the net.

it was a set up question looking for 20 something that have never seen porn. probably is not going to happen. with either gender.

[Rex]

71. I agree, it was a set up question

from the start.

[samsingh]

51. i watch porn

[RKP5637]

103. Ditto!

[samsingh]

118. it is a very healthy thing to do

[RKP5637]

120. I certainly think so. I've never understood all of the fuss about sexual things in America. It's

really quite strange IMO.

[samsingh]

137. the prudish attitude causes more problems

sexuality is innate in all of us

[ZombieHorde]

53. What about men who have been blind since birth? nt

[fadedrose]

54. If available, they watch it from 3rd grade...nt

[june starling]

56. View porn currently or ever saw it?

Because it is not true that all men want to view porn frequently. Thank Jah!

[RKP5637]

58. There's a DU porn group? Did you say?

[KittyWampus]

75. I dare you to suggest it. I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU.

[NYC_SKP]

78. Starting a group tomorrow.

Who's in?

[RKP5637]

104. Me!!! Me!!!

[RKP5637]

97. LOL I've always wondered what DU people look like!

[Warren DeMontague]

166. Y'all couldnt handle it.

Sorry, folks. I'm too sexy for this board.

[RKP5637]

181. ...

[Coyotl]

70. Why are they being called scientists?

The study brings that into question. Wouldn't a scientist do science?

[HiPointDem]

77. +1

[HiPointDem]

76. bs study. interviewed 20 men? what?

also, 'all men consume porn' doesn't mean the same thing as 'all men have consumed porn'.

both are false, though.

any statement starting with 'all' is generally false.

[Atman]

82. Yes, 20 men...that's called a Bachelor Party.

SURPRISED! They all "consumed" porn. And copious amounts of alcohol. And nachos.

[indepat]

79. Told my wife that I have never partaken of hard core pornography, but acknowledged

a soft spot for some of the soft core stuff.

[bluedigger]

80. On behalf of all men, the rest of you are welcome for the internets.

[alfredo]

81. Rick Santorum never did.

[SmileyRose]

263. Rick Santorum IS pornography

[alfredo]

264. Yes!

[WinkyDink]

86. Uh....no. "Male Canadian University Students" = "n," not "All Men."

[SouthernDonkey]

87. If you have never watched porn...

You really should give it a try! You don't know what you've been missing.
....and you can't really comment as to the validity of it, if you say you have not!!

[Raine]

89. I think that is bullshit. nt

[Deep13]

90. 20 college students is the sample?

I'm thinking there are some methodological problems here.

[BadGimp]

94. and in other news, The Sky Is Blue and Fish Swim..

[bobclark86]

95. We used to watch porn in college...

for the entertainment value. I remember watching "Taboo 2" in a room with 15 people, and nine were women.

The best part I still remember: this guy's "daughter" was trying to feel him up and get him in bed, but he turned her down. Afterwards, he's standing in his smoking jacket with a glass of scotch and uttered the immortal line, "I don't know whether to cry or get a hard-on."

[stultusporcos]

96. The wife and I both enjoy porn big deal!

More people need to mind their own business what consenting adults do.

[RKP5637]

106. Yep, well said!!! n/t

[Ken Burch]

98. What about Greased-Hamster porn?

(that is, films produced by Sir Coleridge Greased-Hamster. I've heard they're pretty good.)

[Warren DeMontague]

228. Thats so 80s

Like screwing on a Vespa scooter, wearing parachute pants and a members only jacket.

[Ken Burch]

270. The tough part was training the hamster to drive the Vespa, from what I've heard.

n/t.

[Warren DeMontague]

271. ***

[dimbear]

102. I thought at first this was a gag, since the prof's name is French for "the kids" but

he is a real guy. OTOH, this study is from 2009.

[edbermac]

107. I read Playboy but only for the articles.

Does that count?

[crazyjoe]

108. duh....

[deathrind]

110. ~Seven Billion...

People on this planet...sex is pretty popular. Has been for a long time and in all likelyhood will be for the duration of our existence.

[Courtesy Flush]

112. "Watching porn" implies video

I can honestly say I don't like watching porn. I do watch it sometimes, but I don't find pornographic videos interesting.

I do, however, sometimes look at porn. I like a nice still image of a pretty nude person. Hard core stuff is not appealing to me.

It's funny, but when you use the word watching, I feel like that's a different thing. One watches a video. One looks at a photo.

[Socal31]

113. "All" is not a very scientific word.

Yes our species has advanced to the point that we are so self-aware that we do not consider ourselves a "species". However, we are still as predictable when it comes to drive to reproduce, protect young, etc as everything else on the planet.

I hate to be the lazy DUer, but I have a pork butt in the crockpot that needs pulling, so I don't have time to dig into this. What definition of "pornography" are they using? I see they mention exposure at 10 years old. Are they talking about Playboy, which is breasts and non-graphic angles of female genitalia, or are they talking about a 10 year old watching full intercourse?

Too many variables for me to take this seriously, but even without a study, I would say the percentage of males (including asexuals) who have had the access to look at human intercourse for one reason or another....is closer to 100% than it is to 90%.

[B Calm]

114. How many women watched porn?

I guess they didn't do a study on that. .

[Codeine]

148. Every woman I've ever dated has loved porn.

Presumably there's a selection bias based on the alternative/geek/gamer culture I move in, but I'm assuming that at least a significant majority of women have enjoyed porn occasionally.

[Warren DeMontague]

175. BLASPHEMY!!!!

Imposs-ible!

[treestar]

121. They are counting whoever saw any of it at all, ever

I've seen some of it. So I'd count too if they were counting women. But only a couple of times. So it would not be good to conclude anything from that. It's out there, most people will see it eventually.

[Orrex]

127. This thread is porn

[Arkana]

131. Was this study done by the Water Is Indeed Wet Society?

[HappyMe]

132. So what?

I guess we should call congress right fucking now!!1

[Kablooie]

136. So I must be an exception.

I've never looked at pom. I ... what's that? I spelled it wrong? ... Oh.

...


Never mind.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

144. Does that include all those torture

horror movies or that Mel Gibson Jesus movie?

[Warren DeMontague]

173. I think Downton Abbey produces an unauthorized addictive endocrine brain rush in my wife.

Really, I wish the DOJ would crack down on PBS's Brit-smut. It harms.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

146. I work at a residence with men and women between ages 20-26

They have access to the internet and thus have had access to porn for longer than I've been there, which is +18 months. Recently, the directors decided to block "dangerous" sites, but the uproar from the residents was such that they unblocked the porn the next day.

My point is that the complaints were split evenly between the young men and young women. Both argued that if they couldn't have sex in the residence, it wasn't fair for them to be deprived of porn since sex was a big part of this developmental stage.

Does the response of the young women surprise anyone? or are you all just wondering, "WTF kind of residence do you work at?"

[Incitatus]

152. I have watched 0 porn

this week

[Warren DeMontague]

154. That is a PERNICIOUS LIE! I found one.

[johnlucas]

158. OK. Small asterisk on this one. He HEARS phone sex.

I wonder if there's Braille porn for the blind.
Sounds like it would be a fun game to discover the picture.
John Lucas

[johnlucas]

155. Duh! Next study: All humans breathe air.

Every man has seen porn at LEAST once in his life.
And no porn isn't just the official videos & magazines out there.
There's also half-porn & quarter-porn like the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue, Maxim magazine, Smooth magazine, King magazine...
... and even stuff like Cosmopolitan magazine & the Victoria's Secret catalogue.

Ask Moe Szyslak from The Simpsons & he'll show you the titillation of the JC Penney's catalogue. Hahahaha!

Don't forget shows like Baywatch with girls running around in bikinis & swimsuits.

Any media that can titillate & arouse is pretty much pornography.
There's just different levels of it. Some of it even with clothes on.
Some may not be EXPRESSLY designed to for this purpose but sexuality is used to sell the product so the effect is the same.

Pornography or better yet Sexual Depictions are NATURAL and HEALTHY.
You cannot deny the sex drive.
You may not agree with a certain depiction & that's fair but no one is EVER gonna get rid of porn.
The World Wide Web wouldn't exist without porn.
As soon as photography was invented there were people taking sexual pictures, nude shots.
There's sculptures of fertility goddesses & gods showing sexual body parts.
Drawings on cave walls of sexual images.

In fact, I'll go so far to say that a man who denies ever looking at porn is a suspicious individual.
There's even textual porn & you see this a lot in women's "romance novels".
Porn is extremely diverse & wide-ranging. It's everywhere!

I'm not sure why they wanted to run a study like this.
Looking for that rare needle in the haystack perhaps?
John Lucas

[cecilfirefox]

156. Because I'm a man objectifying people is in my genes! MAH GENES! nt

[Warren DeMontague]

172. No, sex is bad, and getting turned on by looking at naked humans is the HEIGHT OF OPPRESSION!

Shame! Shame!


Actually, no, consenting adults don't need to justify enjoying watching other consenting adults fuck, to anyone, whether they think it is based on genes or anything else.

What is the gene for being a authoritarian puritan?

[Tsiyu]

185. Saying that really violent, degrading porn

in which the "actors" are being exploited is wrong is not the same as saying sex is bad.

Some porn is pretty disgusting and violent and is for losers.

I can say that and STILL enjoy sex.

It's like if I say I hate McDonald's burgers, I hate all food.

Ridiculous and hyperbolic.

[Warren DeMontague]

187. Consenting adults, that's the reasonable yardstick.

I like movies, doesn't mean I like "Navy Seals", or "Howard the Duck". I like books, that doesn't mean I like Ann Coulter's latest screed, or "Twilight".

Goofy, broad generalizations, often driven by an agenda, serve no one- especially on a subject like "porn", which can encompass anything from a Raquel Welch centerfold in Playboy to the... well, whatever material you're referencing in your post.

The desperate attempt to shame people for what is a natural desire- and yes, looking at and appreciating and being visually stimulated by attractive naked people of the gender one is attracted to, as well as being turned on by watching attractive people screw, is natural- that is what is ridiculous and hyperbolic, nevermind that it crops up here like a weird mushroom every 6 months or so.

I suppose on the plus side, at least it's on a topic other than guns.

[Tsiyu]

191. I don't see any desperate attempts to shame anybody

except those on this thread who are incredulous - INCREDULOUS I tells ya - to learn that all men are not just like they are.

Some people don't like any porn, some like some porn, some losers watch the most vile porn and think that's normal human sexuality. It's a curve like anything else.

Consenting adults is the key.

But the exploitive nature of some porn is disgusting to a lot of people, and it is their right to be disgusted. The video of the girl who was gang-raped in Steubenville is "acceptable porn" to some people, and that's just SICK.

And also, it amazes me how childish some men are who consume porn. A woman upthread answers a question and discusses sex, and it seemed to scare the living bejeezuss out of the guy she answered.

This suggests some sort of idea that women shouldn't really like or discuss sex because it just ruins some men's day to openly TALK about sex. They have some pathology where only sex in secret, locked in their mother's basement with their computers and their Kleenex, is "real sex."

"And the gurlz shud not talk about such dirty stuffs!"

[redqueen]

194. It's typical defensiveness.

Any criticism of porn = "shaming"

Intellectualy dishonest BS is what it is. It's clear the only "shaming" is from men so desperate to silence anyone who doesn't march in lockstep with the PRON IS TEH AWESUM mantra.

Look at the discussion of reasonable health protection in the production of porn. The hair-on-fire reactions include so much hyperventilating about banning and freedom and other assorted idiocy. It is truly incredible, just like gun nuts in a way. Any criticism or suggestion of regulation is interpreted as gun grabbers grabbing all of teh guns!!!!!

[Tsiyu]

198. Yeppers

I don't care if adults want to download videos of themselves having sex, and I don't have a problem with consensual porn where there is protection for the actors and no actual harm is done to any of them.

The "But all porn is so WHOLESOME!" argument is made moot by the fact that the gang-rape of a schoolgirl was "acceptable porn" to those who tweeted and sent out pictures of her rape.

If watching people being violently degraded is the only way I could get off, I would be pretty defensive as well.

Anone who pretends all porn is just peachy and there is nothing sick about watching the worst of it, and that "every REAL man does after all" are EXACTLY like the gun-humpers.

[Warren DeMontague]

203. Who said "all porn is wholesome"?

You're gonna need a whole new thread, for all the made-up strawmen you're arguing with; like the one who said "every REAL man does it after all" (where is he? You know, the GUY WHO ACTUALLY SAID THAT? Is he here? In this thread?)

Nice sideways attempt at slamming DU Members, too: "If watching people being violently degraded is the only way I could get off, I would be pretty defensive as well. "


Oh, would ya? Well, harumph harumph, if watching drunken seals covered in mayonnaise, flop together at Sea World was the only way I could get off, I would probably post bitter anti-porn screeds on DU.*

*not that anyone here has actually said that's what they like. Of course.

Honestly, you owe me -or whoever that was supposed to be directed at- an apology, as far as I'm concerned, for that. Fucking -lame-. Won't hold my breath, of course.

If you were paying attention, though, the post I responded to had to do with "objectification"; point being, that finding naked humans of either gender attractive, or enjoying watching them screw (again, CONSENSUALLY, before we get derailed with nonconsensual whataboutery) is "objectification" and (presumably) that's supposed to be something bad.

I just wish the usual suspects would display some intellectual honesty and acknowledge that at the end of the day, it's the naked adults, either alone or consensually fucking, and the people who find them attractive on a VISUAL basis (for some reason it's the fact that they enjoy them VISUALLY that seems to chafe.. Hmmmmm) ... I wish they would just out with it and say, yes, that's what we have a problem with.

But again, won't hold my breath.

[Tsiyu]

211. Why so defensive?

It's not worth it to get so torqued off over a post, but if it keeps you going, so be it.

My post about degrading porn, or those being abused by it, had nothing to do with you. Why would you think it did?

Guess what, Warren, every post made about porn is NOT about you, as hard as that may be to accept. Your taking it so personally is YOUR problem. And when you consistently try to derail any conversation about that kind of porn, are you trying to deny it exists? Are you trying to tell me it's healthy? Do you just want to shut your ears and go "la-la-la-la-la-la-LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"

I can't stand the goddamned strawman that says if we complain about images - such as that of the girl raped in Steubenville - being considered "acceptable porn" we are ALSO saying "ALL PORN IS BAD."

"Ooh you just don't like seeing naked people is really your problem!" Sure. Sure, I don't How juvenile can you get, Warren?

I never said that. You know it. But if I want to interject my thoughts on that kind of porn into a thread about porn, it really pisses some people off for some reason. What ARE your thoughts on that type of porn? If you want to answer that, you would be more honest here. Yelling at me isn't going to change my opinion, neither will trying to shame me.

As for the "All real men do it," that was a summation of some of the posts on this thread, yes. No one said those actual WORDS, no, but when men have posted here- and not just in this thread - that they aren't into porn, they are often met with "Sure, buddy. We know the TRUTH and you watch it, too! Just admit it!" Like these people cannot BELIEVE someone chooses different entertainment. It's juvenile and bullying behavior.

Seriously, if you think everybody does all the same things YOU do, no deviation, you are the intolerant one.

I've stated my position many times, in this thread alone. If you are trying to argue with someone else THROUGH my post, lots of luck with that. I don't know who the "usual suspects" are of whom you speak, Adam Ant, but fight on with them somewhere else.

[Warren DeMontague]

223. And again, straw argument. Where was it said that the shit from steubenville was "acceptable porn"?

No one has said that. Not here, not ever. Or one, its not "porn", its evidence, of a crime. Also, it allegedly contains images of someone under 18, making it illegal on a whole additional level.

Debates about "porn" - if they are intellectually honest - focus on what is out there on the web legally, IE material by and for consenting adults. It is a glaring indicator of the intellectual bankruptcy of the anti porn "arguments" that they inevitably don't proceed 10 feet before dragging in non consent, or non adults, or both-- not to mention Steubenville, which is only included in an argument about "porn" because a crime that involved sex was filmed; it bears absolutely zero relation to the universe of legal "porn", professional and amateur, available on the web.

I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that, with the ready availability of smartphone cameras, teens and sociopaths who commit sick crimes will also be stupid enough to film some of them- and in this case, thats a good thing, because this "porn" you speak of is NOT going out onto the web for people to "get off on" but it will be instrumental in sending these criminals to prison.

If your question is what do I think about the Steubenville rape case, my answer is the same as it has been in the threads where the topic is actually relevant- namely, everyone involved, including accomplices who didn't try to stop it, including coaches or kocl officials who tried to over it up- should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Throw the book at them.

FWIW, I know there are men who don't watch porn. However, by most accounts, honestly, the majority do. And many women do, too.

[Tsiyu]

233. You can't ignore some things

or, well, you can, but, it's you who appears lost and flailing in these discussions.

You repeat yourself, you don't listen, and you conflate issues.

It's a pastime of yours, and quite boring.

That is a strategy - bore people to death.

[Warren DeMontague]

235. Thats pretty long for a total non-answer.

Speaking of boring.

[Warren DeMontague]

202. The poster upthread is asserting that being turned on by looking at naked people = "objectification"

Presumably, that's something bad.

Just cut to the damn chase, and admit that people looking at other people, finding them sexually attractive on a VISUAL basis, and being physically turned on by them, is what's "problematic", here. Admit it. Be honest.

[warrior1]

159. My elderly neighbor doesn't

[Warren DeMontague]

189. How do you know?

[warrior1]

192. He's 93

and he doesn't own a computer plus he is very careful with his money. He's a dear friend.

[Warren DeMontague]

201. I could tell you some stories about some 93 yr. old relatives of mine.

Lets put it this way; the libido does not always disappear.

[DreamGypsy]

161. SMUT

Satirist and ex-Harvard/UC Santa Cruz mathematics professor Tom Lehrer has a cause, labeled variously pornography, obscenity, and smut.

He supports it! "There's only one thing I like more than having my prurient interests aroused - that's having my prurient interests gratified."

Or, those graphic pictures I adore
In dirty magazines galore
I love them more
If they're hard core.

From 1967 -

[Blue_Tires]

183. "Porn" is for twisted lowlife deviants and teens learning to touch themselves for the first time...

I however, partake in "erotica"...

[Capt. Obvious]

196. THIS IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE WE'RE ON

ONE DAY THEY'RE CONSUMING PORN
THE NEXT THEY ARE KILLING KITTENS AND TRADING IN THE UNDERGROUND WORLD OF SNUFF LIKE IN THAT MOVIE
MEN ARE DANGEROUS

[redqueen]

199. Close.. but the actual slope is

ONE DAY THEY'RE REGULATING THE USE OF CONDOMS FOR SAFETY
THE NEXT THEY BAN ALL THE PORN AND THEN NO MORE MASTURBATING OR SEX EVER!!!!!

[Capt. Obvious]

200. Ah, it finally comes out

[Warren DeMontague]

206. ***

[Warren DeMontague]

204. I'm sorry, what part of this thread was about condom regulations in porn?

I must have missed the subthread.

[Taverner]

197. Pssst...got a little secret for ya. Women look at porn too.

Don't tell anyone!

[Warren DeMontague]

205. NO THEY DONT

THEY DONT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Warren DeMontague]

207. PORN THREEEEEAAAADDD!!!!

COME N' GET IT!!!!!

[LadyHawkAZ]

210. ...

Everyone in this thread has now consumed Porn.

[Iggo]

212. Man, I gotta get me some study money!

[MrSlayer]

230. "All men watched porn at some point" would be a better title.

I used to watch porn when I was a kid and not getting any real sex. But once you have some, porn becomes irrelevant. For me it did anyway. Why watch when you can do?

[Warren DeMontague]

232. Some people do both.

Some married people, even, enjoy it together, or separately... people who also have vigorous, statistically-above-average sex lives even.

Or so I have heard- since I weighed in on this thread with an unacceptably low level of anti-porn indignation, apparently I know *nothing* about women and sex.

[MrSlayer]

234. I know.

And that's fine for them. Whatever works. But the point is that not all men watch porn since they clearly do not but everyone has at the very least looked at a Playboy at some point.

[Warren DeMontague]

239. I enjoy looking at pictures of beautiful, naked women. I do! There, I said it.

Guilty as charged.

[Phlem]

261. Oh Noes!

males attracted to females, naked females at that!

alert! alert! alert! my sensibilities have been hurt! alert! alert! alert!

WTF is this world coming to. What if we go off the deep end and invent math, or learn how to make fire, and for Christ 'sake the wheel!!!



We're all doomed I tell ya, each and every one of us might go and make families, populate the world, and reach for the stars. Blasphemy!!

-p

[Warren DeMontague]

262. I hear tell there is some serious porn related erectile dysfunction waiting like a, um, limp tiger

To pounce (not pounce?) at any moment, speaking of "O NOES"!

Hmmm. Noooooope, havent noticed that particular problem. Maybe 3+ decades of "research" isn't enough.

Or maybe Some of us have got magic genes. Like i said, "you never met Gramps".

[krispos42]

238. Cosmo worked for me when I was young n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

240. Sears bra ads in the sunday paper.

Those were the days.

[Warren DeMontague]

241. ***

[MrMickeysMom]

243. Which is why anything with a phallic symbol is marketable, I'm betting...

cool cars, buildings for bankers are tall dicks, the latest trend in shaving one's head when they start to loose hair guarantees you'll have a dick on your head, and let's talk about food next!!!

[url=http://www.cosgan.de/smilie.php][img][/img][/url]
[url=http://www.cosgan.de/smilie.php][img][/img][/url]
[url=http://www.cosgan.de/smilie.php][img][/img][/url] [url=http://www.cosgan.de/smilie.php][img][/img][/url] [url=http://www.cosgan.de/smilie.php][img][/img][/url]

[Warren DeMontague]

244. There are not a lot of good options, for dudes going bald.

Far better, in my mind, to embrace the inevitable a la Michael Stipe than to fight futilely against reality -and invite dead animal comparisons- a la Donald Trump.

And to be fair, some dudes' heads look like penises, even with hair:

[MrMickeysMom]

246. ...

[Glassunion]

245. So in all of Montreal there is not one blind man?

Damn their socialized medicine is the best!

[Phlem]

248. They've cured

hairy palms too.

-p

[Phlem]

251. Messed up study.

First of all the statement is an absolute. I guarantee there places in the world where there is just no access to it, and with men living in these places.
Second of all it's just like me saying "All women hate porn".

If " all men watch porn " were written as a conclusion in the scientist's findings then that raises the the question what else have they messed up in the study.



-p

[Warren DeMontague]

257. I would tend to doubt that whoever was responsible for the "research" put forth a hypothesis

intended for rigorous peer review, saying "all men watch porn".

Rather, I suspect that's the press, having a little laugh.

Also, the press is notoriously bad when it comes to mangling/getting "creative" with scientific statements and results; this is how some interesting (but admittedly not final or conclusive) data on light from 12 billion yr old quasars which could have relevance to the question of whether or not space-time is "quantum foamy" down near the Planck length, becomes "Einstein was right, quantum physics is wrong!" in Headline-speak.

[Phlem]

258. Your probably right

and it only gets worse when it's passed around the room.

That's the first time I've heard of "quantum foamy", I read the argument of whether we have a digital or analog universe, but your saying sub atomic particles can behave in a foamy fashion the smaller you go?



-p

[Warren DeMontague]

259. I think the idea is that at very small scales, spacetime itself is foamy.

One big challenge, as you're probably aware, is reconciling micro-scale QM with Einsteinian descriptions of macro space-time, gravity, etc.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam

[Phlem]

260. That's what I was wondering.

subatomic particles cease to exist and in it's place is a soapy foam like structure. Fascinating!

Yes the elusive unified theory, I hear string theorists are coming up with some interesting ideas, but when that day comes, and if our species is still alive, it will be Grand!

Maybe we can all explore the universe instead of fighting with each other, that would be Grand too.

Thanks for the link too I love reading about this stuff.

Hook me up brotha, if you have anymore fun links.

Take Care.

-p

[Warren DeMontague]

265. I find that stuff fascinating, too.

Love watching the Science channel.

It's right up there with watching porn, in my book. (See, there, how I brought it back to the topic of the thread? 3 Points!)

[Phlem]

266. Awesome

-p