General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSurely every American must realize any cuts hereinafter made to social security, Medicare, or
Medicaid will serve to pay for the recently enacted permanent tax cuts for those earning from $250,000 to $450,000, permanent cuts in capital gains and dividends to 20%, and an assorted bundle of corporate tax breaks/giveaways. Any cuts to these programs to fund these tax cuts and corporate giveaways would, imho, depict just how brazenly craven our government has become and should, for all time, convince we the people that our government does not operate/govern to promote the general welfare for we the people, but rather to promote the interests of the most affluent and large corporations. Rebuttal invited.
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)it has been seized by wealth, corporations and wall street.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Medicare and Social Security. Both are earned entitlements meaning we pay into them over our working years. If payout of those programs is greater than payin, what makes up the difference?
How do those programs add to the deficit?
It seems to me cutting those programs is an act of ideology rather then an act of cost cutting.
Unless the money paid in was spent on other programs and it has to be paid back, then not paying it back may be the reason to cut payouts.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)This concerns paying back the $ 2.6 trillion of debt instruments that are in the trust fund.
The less Social Security pays out the less money the government has to come up with to
pay back the trust fund in the near future.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Nothing else I have seen so vividly illustrates how FAR to the Conservative Right
our Party has drifted in the last 25 years.
[font color=firebrick][center]The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR. [/font][/center]
dkf
(37,305 posts)Upon that date the excess collected has been paid out, thus there should be no assumption you will get what was calculated as your payment. Either it gets cut or you require workers to pay more, or you budget annually for the additional amounts.
Yay a fiscal cliff argument every year! Great.
Can you imagine waiting to see if your SS payment dips 25%, widening as the imbalance gets wider?
So yes, this is where you will be if you haven't properly prepared. And the faster the trust fund drains, the sooner that day comes.
Chained CPI extends that date so that is the positive of considering it.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)I was just reading this month's AARP newsletter, and they said that right now, with Medicare where it is now, it will cost a couple who are 65 and retiring $250,000 just for health care related expenses over the rest of their lives. Just health care.
Forget food, forget taxes on your home or rent, forget buying a new pair of shoes. How many people who are median wage can "prepare" enough for this, much less cuts that could be made to Medicare and Social Security.
Chained CPI is a bunch of manipulated crap, because the powers that be want to find a way to renege on the promises without actually being obvious about it.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Really the best way to cut payments is to not touch either program. Then pow you can really hurt people when the inevitable happens. Yeah for maximum pain we are on the right path.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)money for international aid, money for research into things that the government has no business doing....and if we can't take care of people at the end of their life, after they have worked all their lives and paid into these programs, we might as well be a third world country. The USA would be pathetic.
The inevitable does not need to happen if we are willing to pay for it, just like we pay for all sorts of things.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Yeah we won't have any money for anything else. As it is, taking care of the elderly is our biggest expense. If that's the entirety of our country's purpose while all the other countries invest in their young people to grow their economy, then where will we be? Humane but screwed and eating our seed spiraling ever downwards.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)that the biggest expense this country has is taking care of the elderly? Defense spending: $689 billion. Medicare spending: $458 billion.
Since I did not believe your premise, I did some searching for information, and I found this awesome article that you should read:
http://www.newthinktank.com/2011/06/fix-social-security-and-medicare/
First of all, I think that it is possible to cut the costs of all health care in this country, although I don't think that we are serious about doing it. There are also ways to cut costs for Medicare without making changes to the program. But even if we can't substantially cut costs, I believe this is a program worth keeping. Look at history. Before Medicare, most older people died from health problems that were easily remedied if they had to money to pay for them....which most people, even young people, do not have.
I assume that you are young?
dkf
(37,305 posts)I'm young enough to know that the country will be too messed up to do as promised if we stay on this path.
See chart 7
http://www.fms.treas.gov/frsummary/frsummary2011.pdf
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)I think that you will find that you will value Medicare when your parents are old, and cannot afford health care. They may die from easily treated diseases, or they may need to come live with you. Along with your parents-in-law. I still remember when my grandmother died, before Medicare. They were never rich but always worked. But she had to choose between food and taxes and treatment for diabetes. She could not keep up all the treatment that she needed. I don't want that.
dkf
(37,305 posts)They both retired at 55 from their state jobs and have had a very very nice retirement. The state pays them a check to reimburse them for their Medicare costs. Both are now at a point where they have been retired for more years than they worked.
House paid off, no real expenses, travel travel travel. Mom says she feels very lucky she was born when she was and I tell her yes, she was. I feel slightly bad for my siblings and I, but I feel worse for my nieces and nephew.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)bigapple1963
(111 posts)Would you agree that any cuts made to Medicare/Medicaid (Social Security is more complicated in its link to the general fund) would also go to pay for the permanent tax cuts for those earning below $250,000?
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Ok.
hay rick
(7,604 posts)"...those earning from $250,000 to $450,000, permanent cuts in capital gains and dividends to 20%, and an assorted bundle of corporate tax breaks/giveaways"
The BIG money is in the rest of the list. Not mentioned in the OP- capping the top marginal income tax rate at 39.6%. Back in the high-growth 1950s and 1960s, the top rate was 91%...
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)hay rick
(7,604 posts)Yeah, he's losing his socialist cred.
Skittles
(153,142 posts)brer cat
(24,556 posts)quakerboy
(13,918 posts)"permanent cuts in capital gains and dividends to 20%"
Can you expand on this? My understanding was that if nothing had been done, those would reset to 20%, same as the deal that was reached.
hay rick
(7,604 posts)From the Wikipedia article on dividend taxation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend_tax
Had the Bush-era federal income tax rates of 10, 15, 25, 28, 33 and 35 percent brackets been allowed to expire for tax year 2012, the rates would have increased to the Clinton-era rate schedule of 15, 28, 31, 36, and 39.6 percent. In that scenario, qualified dividends would no longer be taxed at the long-term capital gains rate, but would revert back to being taxed at the taxpayer's regular income tax rate. However, the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012 (H.R. 8) was passed by the United States Congress and signed into law by President Barack Obama in the first days of 2013. This legislation extended the 0 and 15 percent capital gains and dividends tax rates for taxpayers whose income does not exceed the thresholds set for the highest income tax rate (39.6 percent). Those who exceed those thresholds ($400,000 for single filers; $425,000 for heads of households; $450,000 for joint filers) became subject to a 20 percent rate for capital gains and dividends.
I believe the long-term capital gains would have gone up (back to Clinton rates) for all those not in the old/new 39.6% bracket. The rate returns to 20% only for those high earners- everyone else keeps the Bush capital gains tax cut. Of course, the majority of capital gains go to high earners...
BadgerKid
(4,550 posts)the GOP will portray the Dems as having abandoned the people.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Computers and other changes in the workplace have increased the efficiency and productivity of Americans in the workplace. But all the profit goes to the executive suite.
The United States does not lack the money to pay for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, government and military pensions as well as research and education. The wealthy in the nation lack the will to bring their profits home and pay American workers.
I will be so glad when Obama brings the troops home from Afghanistan. I hope we never send any more troops anywhere in the world. War is a waste of human life and of tax money. War destroys our trust in each other and our sense of pride in being Americans.
War is an abomination and a horror. Let's just not fight any more wars.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)a matter of wealth, it's a matter of the distribution of that wealth and it always has been. I also agree with the second part of your post RE: wars and the uselessness of same. Unfortunately in a competitive system like capitalism, wars of one sort or another are inevitable.
Every Xmas of my reasonably long life I've heard about Peace on Earth. And just about every year we've been involved in some sort of war. I'm thoroughly sick of them. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll ever see the end of this country's wars.
plethoro
(594 posts)"But, gosh, look what he did get...yada, blah." The Republicans now have leverage to force Obama to cut entitlements. He, in turn, can say he had to do it, and everyone will be fine, except, of course, the American economy, that will suffer mightily by those who will simply stop spending to make up what they are losing in social earnings for themselves and their offspring. And the "gosh" people? They will be nowhere to be seen.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)indepat
(20,899 posts)large corporations and the most affluent. The two TN senators are calling for $1 trillion cuts to social security and Medicare in turn for raising the Federal debt limit by $1 trillion. Although most Tennesseans would be seriously harmed if implemented, the preponderance of those severely harmed would imo blissfully return both to the Senate, should they run again. Go figure.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)davekriss
(4,616 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)this for years. I guess they are more worried about their love affair with their guns.