A key aspect missing from the Zero Dark Thirty "debate"

[noise]

Why was a torture program implemented in the first place?

Q and A with Ali Soufan

Amy Davidson:“60 Minutes,” in a Web piece that accompanied its interview with Rodriguez called “Interrogations: The FBI’s side of the Story,” presented this as a he-said, he-said, or Agency-said, Bureau-said: “What really happened in the interrogation of high-level detainees like Abu Zubaydah? Depends on who you ask: the FBI or the CIA.” Is that what it comes down to?

Ali Soufan: It was a factual mistake for “60 Minutes” and others to present it as an F.B.I. versus C.I.A. issue. They had in their possession the C.I.A. Inspector General’s report, the Department of Justice report, and the Senate Intelligence Committee’s information, all of which make this clear.

The more accurate way to portray it is that it’s the professionals from the F.B.I. and the C.I.A. versus bureaucrats in Washington. The C.I.A. professionals in the field weren’t happy that outside contractors with no Al Qaeda or terrorism experience were put in charge and they were pushed out. One C.I.A. colleague even left the secret location where we questioning Abu Zubaydah before I did—in protest of what was happening. Mr. Rodriguez, too, was not an Al Qaeda or terrorism expert, as he himself writes.

Because these C.I.A. professionals were unhappy with what bureaucrats in Washington were doing, they complained to their inspector general, John Helgerson. He looked into the program and issued a damning report about its lack of verifiable successes, among other things. This is why, back in 2005, still under the Bush Administration, the program was shelved.

Today, those responsible for the program, who made a decision that was terrible for our national security—both in the short term and the long term—are doing their best to try to salvage their reputation. And part of their tactic is to portray this as F.B.I. versus C.I.A., but that’s dishonest.

Q and A with Ali Soufan

The movie pushes the notion that the torture program was a good faith effort to get intelligence. Says who? Bigelow and Boal? What is the basis of their credibility? The fact that they are from the glitzy world of Hollywood? Their first hand CIA sources? As Soufan notes CIA officials have been attempting for years to sell the public on the necessity and effectiveness of the torture program. Putting human beings in little boxes is sickening. I have no idea why anyone would either condone this sort of thing or attempt to convince the public that such a thing is justified in any way.

[quinnox]

1. good point, and I got a notice from the ACLU

in my email that explained the movie was inaccurate in a key plot line, in fact that torture did not lead to bin Laden, and the official report on this is being held up and not being released for political reasons in Congress. But the official report shows torture didn't lead to bin Laden, and that contradicts the movie explicitly.

[noise]

4. One talking point suggests

that critics of the torture program are out of touch leftists who aren't willing to admit that torture works.

By all appearances qualified FBI interrogators were replaced by a bunch of contractors and CIA agents who were willing to make the Bush administration look "tough on terror." I would argue that the entire torture program was implemented in bad faith. It may make some people feel better to think there were good reasons for the use of torture but the public evidence does not support this finding.

[rgbecker]

2. If there is one thing I remember from the haze of the '60s

It was the amount of evidence that the people of the United States were being told no more about the truth than were our evil commie comrads in the USSR.

Now, fifty years later, the truth still lies hidden behind a wall of mirrors put up by the media, the government, the schools and people we thought were our friendly neighbors.

[leveymg]

3. If you want to preserve memory (evidence), you don't repeatedly waterboard. Ergo, the point wasn't

to obtain information, it was to destroy it.

And, that's exactly what the Bush Team and torture contractors ended up doing.

KSM before and after: