Suicide & guns.

[easttexaslefty]

"America had more than 11,000 firearms-related homicides in 2011, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But here's what's brushed aside: In 2011, America had more than 19,000 suicides committed by firearms, according to the CDC."

These are some of their faces.
www.facesofsuicide.com

Guns are the most lethal method and chosen method of suicide.
You gun proponents need to look at these faces.
You "anybody should be able to own a gun!" should too.
Your loved ones face could be on here.
I know my son's is.

[MadHound]

1. If somebody wants to kill themselves, they will.

Whether a gun is around or not. There are myriad ways and methods that the average person can kill themselves, cleanly and relatively painlessly.

I find it interesting that guns are used predominantly by men, women tend to use other methods that leave a nice looking corpse.

One of the current large contributing factors to suicide is the wars we're involved in. Want to stop suicides, stop the war. Also, since back economic times increase suicide, then getting our economy back on track would help as well.

[easttexaslefty]

2. You facts are fucked up.

Number 1. Guns are the most lethal and used method of suicide.
Number 2. Girls are catching up, quickly
Number 3. People suicide for a VARIETY of reasons.

[MadHound]

5. None of what you posted disputes what I posted

You take away guns, and people will find other ways to kill themselves. It has gone on for years, decades and centuries.

Yes, women are catching up to men in the use of guns for suicide, but the majority of women still prefer to use other methods than a gun.

Yes, people commit suicide for a variety of reasons, but returning soldiers and those weighed down by economic hard times are especially vulnerable.

So no, my facts aren't fucked up.

[easttexaslefty]

7. Yes, your facts are fucked up.

I suggest you check out afsp.org
Maybe you could lose you ignorant preconceived notions about suicide.
I pray you never have to be educated first hand.

[MadHound]

13. Look, I'm sorry for your loss,

But don't fucking think that you're alone in suffering such a loss. Don't think that you alone possess the only facts.

I have lost family and friends to suicide. I have also been an emergency counselor at a suicide hotline, and listened as people took their own life. I have also had the joy of talking people that I know dearly, and complete strangers, out of taking their own lives.

Just because you lost somebody to suicide doesn't mean that you are the be all and end all expert on suicide. You're not, deal with it.

[easttexaslefty]

20. I don't claim to be but I know who is.

and thats the American foundation for suicide. I choose to believe their studies, not your bullshit.

[Yo_Mama]

11. That's because gun ownership is more popular now for young women

I think they are afraid of crime, but young women now are far more likely to learn to shoot and get a gun. I've been surprised by this development.

All the younger women I knew when I was young killed themselves with their cars or with drugs. The gun is just a method. If the gun is not there, I think they use a car.

Illegal and legal drugs are so pervasive that almost anyone can get a lethal dose. The only way to stop suicides is to stop the intent from forming, and that is terribly difficult.

[KittyWampus]

8. Mass shooters are suicidial> so a gun makes it easier & potentially more victims.

[postatomic]

24. Sexist and Stupid

Men typically have access to guns more than women. Common method with women is an overdose because it's usually what they have access to. Few people think about how they are going to look after they kill them self.

Don't pretend that you know a fucking thing about suicide, because you don't. So shut the fuck up. k'?

[Nye Bevan]

25. Believe it or not, this was alerted for "sexism". Predictably, 6-0 to leave.

At Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:04 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

If somebody wants to kill themselves, they will.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2223546

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

"I find it interesting that guns are used predominantly by men, women tend to use other methods that leave a nice looking corpse. "
Sexist

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:11 PM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Good grief. Grow up.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Alerter, thank you for making me chuckle with your claim that the post is sexist. Ask Madhound to back up the claim if you have the courage, but don't abuse the jury system. Madhound's post is not disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[easttexaslefty]

28. Ya. Because saying women

Don't shoot themselves because they want to leave a good looking corpse, isn't sexist.

[intaglio]

27. Speaking with some experience you are talking out of your ass.

I know because on 2 occasions I would have killed myself if I had owned a gun.

Not only that but you are being incredibly sexist in your remark relating to women. Neither cutting nor hanging is likely to leave a "nice looking corpse," and, if you know anything about drugs and the purge reflex, neither will drug overdose.

Please take your NRA talking point back to the Gungeon where you and your fellow grunting deniers can continue to stimulate each other with tales of wonder.

[Robyn66]

3. I am sorry for your loss

I lost a friend to suicide by gun. Unfortunately, it is not something the gun lobby is interested in, but it is something that needs to become more prominent in the gun debate.

[easttexaslefty]

4. Thanks

It just piss's me off to no end. I know so many parents that are grieving their kids because of stupid people and their stupid guns...

[Robyn66]

19. What is worse

and what I keep seeing is the fanatical attachment to guns, even here. I gave people credit for having more depth of thought.

[Yo_Mama]

6. People also kill themselves in their cars

I am terribly sorry for the loss of your son, but in my experience a person determined to kill him/herself does.

After my father's death, I went through my mother's house and threw away the drug hoard she had been compiling to kill herself with if things got too bad (she was ill with a very painful disease at the time). She wasn't at all irrational, so I wasn't concerned about anything but a rational suicide due an increase of her physical pain and a decline in her physical functioning.

Within a month I found that she had written to the Hemlock Society and had gotten a nice pamphlet of helpful instructions about killing yourself with the minimum fuss and inconvenience to anyone else. This alarmed me, because I thought that she was very afraid of becoming dependent and ruining her children's lives, so the idea of making it all convenient was going to shift the balance in her mind. So I moved in with her, and stayed for a year. The treatment worked and her physical condition improved.

Nineteen years later, my mother's life was ended by a man who ran a red light early one morning and crushed her car. She died in the car about 70 feet away from the EMT station. It would have been different if the treatment hadn't worked - she was able to go back to work and felt useful. That was what changed things - nothing that I could have done would have changed things if the treatment hadn't worked.

Again, I am sorry for your loss, but guns don't cause suicides. They are a means. They may, by being there and being effective, facilitate one, but I do not think that the number of suicides would meaningfully change if all the guns in the US suddenly vanished. I think instead a lot of people would kill themselves with their cars. That's how most of the people I have known killed themselves - I think they thought it provided plausible deniability for their families.

I think a better mental health system and a better economy would meaningfully reduce the suicide rate. I think about the people I have known who killed themselves, and I think that only a few could have been prevented by even those things.

I don't know what to say to you about the loss of your son - just that you are not alone in this suffering and you are not responsible for his death.

[easttexaslefty]

9. This is utter bullshit.

Impulse is a factor in many suicides and, oh yeah, guns.

[Yo_Mama]

14. Yeah, impulse is a factor in many

And we all have cars.

The only times I have ever been close to an impulsive suicide was driving in my car. So quick, so easy. So - I am ashamed to tell this truth - satisfying.

I knew a young woman with MS who did. I've known several women who did. And at least one guy. Probably three, but at least one. The son of my father's best friend hung himself. There's always a way. Jumping from a tall building.

It's not bullshit. People can bear only so much pain.

[Robyn66]

17. Yet you didn't

No one is denying people commit suicide or how they think about it. Hell I fantasized about driving in to a bridge abutment once but didn't. We all have bad moments. And no one denies that. And yes the mental health system is a disaster but do you think that someone being treated for severe depression or anxiety disorder should have "their second amendment rights violated"?

I have had two friends who committed suicide,

One committed suicide with a gun during an argument with his wife. Fast impulsive and you cant take it back. Oh and in front of his teenage daughters and their friend.

The other hanged himself and was the classic textbook "put everything in order, I never saw him happier" then all of a sudden they found him hanging in the shed kind of suicide.

It was the gun that made the difference, if he cut himself with a knife during the argument he would have had a better chance at survival than a gun shot to the head. But people like you are so beyond reason it is a waste of breath.

I don't know why I bother

[Travis_0004]

15. So what do you propose we do?

First off Japan has a suicide rate nearly twice what the United States does, and there are almost no guns there. I'm also fine with more funding for suicide prevention, but what can be done as far as gun laws to prevent suicide? Even if we only allowed single shot firearms, people would still be able to use them for suicide. Its also impossible to ban all guns in this country. So the fact is I don't think there is anything you can do regarding gun laws to reduce suicides. I think the best way to reduce suicides is to increase mental health funding.

[Robyn66]

18. FOR GODS SAKE DONT TOUCH THE GUNS!!!! nt

[Robyn66]

16. The false equivalence between cars and guns needs to STOP

Ok, people kill themselves with lots of things. Like the poem by Dorothy Parker says

Razors pain you; rivers are damp;
acids stain you; and drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful; nooses give;
gas smells awful;
you might as well live.

But out of all of those things, there is only one that's primary use is killing and that is a gun. That is an undeniable fact. Guns kill, that is what they were made to do.

And if you want to keep the car false equivalency going, you need to take a test and carry a license to drive a car. Not so much a gun. Someone can go their whole life not killing something with a car. (animal or human) I didn't buy a car considering its ability to kill or its kill range.

But when you buy a gun, it is with the express reason to kill something (as in hunting) all of your questions and research are in how easy is it to kill what you want to kill with it so you can fill your freezer with game (yummy).

If you are a police officer, you need a gun so if you are forced to have to use it, you need to be able to be sure to hit your target. And the GOOD cops I have known in my life have all told me that the LAST thing they ever want to do is shoot someone.

So please, tell me again how a gun is just like a car.

[Zoeisright]

22. Bullshit.

You really think 11,000 people kill themselves with their CARS every year? God, this false equivalency fuckshit has got to stop. And yes, guns cause suicides.

Getting rid of guns would reduce the suicide rate. PERIOD.

[Supply Side Jesus]

10. I'm surprised it isn't higher

As a newly promoted Detective, 3 months, I've investigated 3 GSW suicides already. I figuered that number would be higher. Though, if someone wants to kill themselves, they will do it, no matter the means. Very sad

[MotherPetrie]

12. K&R in sad memory of a relative who shot herself in the head

[LeftInTX]

21. Guns make suicide easier

The other methods, such as drug overdose, often aren't effective. Staging a car crash can result in permanent injury instead. Other suicide methods can result in permanent injury instead which just makes a miserable life worse.

Who needs Dr. Kevorkian? Guns are almost as easy.

[easttexaslefty]

23. Exactly.

My son hung himself. Hanging yourself is not at all easy. I've tried. Taking pills is not always effective, I know. I've tried that too.
Guns. Almost always very very lethal.

[Lurks Often]

26. Gun availability does NOT always mean high suicide rates

Here is the Wikipedia link to world wide suicide rates as determined by the World Health Organization:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

The United States is ranked the 34th.

Japan and the People's Republic of China, both countries with near or complete bans of private ownership of firearms are ranked 6th and 7th respectively.

Suicide is a tragedy, no one disputes that, but it is FAR more a mental health issue then a gun availability issue.

[easttexaslefty]

30. Here's the point. Here's you...

Way the fuck somewhere else.

[postatomic]

31. More stupid

I wonder why I waste my time. If you noticed, and I'm sure you didn't, the wikipedia "facts" have been disputed and they don't specifically point to guns. Let me repeat that... "they don't mention guns". If you want to discuss mental health and guns let's talk about the psychopaths and sociopaths that buy guns. That would include most. They lack the ability to interact with society and people in general and get comfort from their hunk of burning love.

If you feel the need to own a gun you have other issues that need to be addressed.

If I had owned a gun on a cold February night a few years ago I would not be typing this right now. But, I do now. So if I ever make the decision to check out it will be by gun. It's incredibly easy to purchase and it's very lethal.

You post goes from A to Z and skips everything in between. Just more stupid. And sad. Stupid and Sad.

[Lurks Often]

37. Might want to work on your reading comprehension

the numbers from the wikipedia link were taken from the World Health Organization.

Your fear of guns is your problem, not mine and maybe you shouldn't own a gun

"incredibly easy to purchase" I go through a background check EVERY single time I buy a gun

[postatomic]

38. "every time I buy a gun" ??!!!

Do you need guns to protect your guns?

I don't fear guns. I don't fear dying. When I bought my mine I went in, filled out some paperwork, and about an hour later I walked out with a gun. It should NOT be that easy and someone like myself should NOT have been able to buy a gun. (history of suicide attempt)

Sorry, but I will never see the "liberal" in anyone who feels the need to own guns. What is it that you fear so much that you need guns? Never mind. I can fill in the blanks.

Stupid and Sad.

[Lurks Often]

41. Nothing

I own guns for competition

Your fears are your own and that you are afraid of guns and that you shouldn't own one doesn't mean you have the right to judge the rest of the approximately 80 million other gun owners in the country.

[easttexaslefty]

40. "every time you buy a gun"

Boy, that's a scary thought!
I barely "know" you and I'm scared to death of the thought of you heavily armed.

[Lurks Often]

42. Project much?

If you're so scared by someone you've never met and never will, how do you manage to function every day in a state like Texas where gun ownership is so high and so many routinely carry a gun every day?

[easttexaslefty]

43. Hardly.

It's not easy being surrounded by jerks like you but I manage.

[easttexaslefty]

44. Why don't you mosey back to

the gun forum tough guy...

[mainer]

29. Statistics just published in Maine:

For the year 2010:
108 total gun deaths, comprising of:
95 suicides
12 assaults
1 accident


Suicides make up the vast majority of gun deaths here.

[pinboy3niner]

32. I lost my best friend when he put a bullet in his head

Lost other friends to self-inflicted gunshot wounds and other methods of suicide. All were Vietnam vets struggling with PTSD. All of their deaths were a consequence of their war trauma.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

33. Guns might be the method for most suicides... but almost never the reason.

Last edited Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:54 AM - Edit history (1)

Many other countries with extremely contrasting gun laws have higher suicide rates than us. In the end, suicide boils down to a choice someone makes about their body and their life and what they can do about it. However the actual cause or reasoning at arriving to their decision is almost entirely a social/cultural issue with problems far outside the realm of gun availability.

2009 UK rate (strict gun control): 9/100,000
2009 Japan rate (VERY strict gun control): 26/100,000
2009 US rate (gun utopia/paradise): 11/100,000

[easttexaslefty]

34. No shit??

Who ever said guns were the reason?
They are the most used method.
Why do you think that is?
Easy to obtain and mostly & usually, painless. Definitely lethal.
So happy you can see Suicide boils down to a persons life and what they choose to do with it.
You do know I suppose that 90% of people who suicide have a mental illness.
(diagnosed or otherwise)
And that suicide is the 5th top killer of children from 6-18. Screw them, let them choose what to do with their lives, I guess.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

35. If you advocate restricting a symptom rather than solve the problem...

oh nevermind... carry on.

[easttexaslefty]

36. You are clueless.

Carry on, indeed.

[treestar]

39. I read in the article on Australian gun control

They experienced a reduction in homicides and mass shooting, but a very big reduction in suicides:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html