Check In IF You Found All The Religious Crapola Disappointing

[stopbush]

Because I sure did.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Speaking as a nonbeliever,

it didn't bother me at all.

[Politicub]

2. Same here. Today is for everyone.

[RKP5637]

9. Yeah, I wrote it off to part of the process ... as you said, "Today is for everyone." n/t

[union_maid]

17. Me three

Didn't bother me. It was inclusive sort of religious stuff, too. But it is part of the process. Not going anywhere any time soon.

[Still Sensible]

6. Agreed. It is what it is. n/t

[Comrade_McKenzie]

7. Same. I felt the entire event was all-inclusive. nt

[RKP5637]

13. +++ 1,000 +++ n/t

[kestrel91316]

108. EXACTLY. All-inclusive and nondenominational, and minimally religious.

[RebelOne]

45. Ditto that. n/t

[liberalmuse]

81. Speaking as an atheist - me neither.

I tune it out.

[condoleeza]

127. Nonbeliever here too, it's part of the territory, unfortunately

today wasn't anywhere near as obnoxious as I've seen in the past.

[Hekate]

137. I felt neither excluded nor disrespected. Public civic rituals always include a nod to God.

And today we had the most joyous gladsome public civic ritual in the catalog of public civic rituals: the second Inauguration of President Obama.

[RKP5637]

3. I get tired of it ... it seems to be a given part of the pomp and circumstance, I

wrote it off to that ...

[Flashmann]

4. Didn't bother me

It soothes the torch and pitchfork bearing villagers......

[JoePhilly]

28. Actually, I think it drives them even crazier ...

to hear the atheist Muslim bad Christian Obama steal their God.

So given that it drives them nuts ... I'm all for it.

[agracie]

56. <snort>

[GoneOffShore]

74. I'm with you Joe.

It bothers the god-botherers and so that's fine with me.

Someday we'll be able to have public ceremonies without the mumbo-jumbo and the obligatory "God bless America".

[JoePhilly]

84. And I will add ...

Some very nice Americans appreciate the references to God. They pray positive prayers for America.

Then there are the nut jobs who hate him with a rare intensity. They're going nuts today. And I love it.

[kestrel91316]

109. Excellent point, and I am with you all the way with that.

[riderinthestorm]

5. I really wish there wasn't such a heavy emphasis as well.

It feels as though the inauguration is turning into a religious test and not a secular ceremonial transfer of power (or renewal as this 2nd inauguration was today).

[RC]

34. For having a "secular" government, we sure do wallow in a lot of religion at public political events

Even our money is unconstitutional.

[riderinthestorm]

40. Yup. I understand the pandering and religious stuff must be included to appease the believers

but truthfully its something that more Americans SHOULD be concerned about imho.

It doesn't bother me to the point of making an OP about it but if someone points it out, I'm entirely comfortable supporting their view.

We'll see another round of this when graduation season comes - believers who think us unbelievers should simply shut up and endure prayers at school events because its not a big deal.

It is really. But alas, no one's gonna take on this sacred cow. Literally.

[kestrel91316]

111. Religion is on the decline in the US, contrary to what the christofascists would have us believe.

Eventually there won't be enough people who give a shit to keep the old traditions of public prayer going.

I know I certainly don't do anything to support or encourage it. I also don't cause a public scene over it.

[riderinthestorm]

124. Expressing an opinion on a private discussion board is "causing a public scene"? Really Kestrel?

All righty. I guess you've made yourself perfectly clear.

[kestrel91316]

110. Well it doesn't violate our constitution. Not sure how it is in your country.

[Egalitarian Thug]

163. In the beginning we adopted Columbia to serve this purpose. The secular embodiment

of the U.S. Unfortunately, pandering to voter prejudice has always proven an effective means to office.

[Brickbat]

8. I always find it tiresome.

[phleshdef]

10. I don't give 2 shits.

I'm not a believer. But this country is definitely a country of believers. The vast majority of people in this country are religious. That's just the way it is. I accept it and move on. Its not like anyone is trying to force me to be something I'm not.

[peace13]

57. If by religious you mean Christian...

I don't think they are the majority at this time.

[phleshdef]

61. Untrue. 73% of Americans identify as Christian.

But by religious, I meant people of faith in general, not just Christians.

[glowy]

102. I really doubt that

a lot of people go to church, but they are just going through the motions

[phleshdef]

107. If someone says they consider themselves a Christian, I just take their word for it.

[kestrel91316]

114. That would be me. I attend about once every 3 or 4 years, and mostly for Christmas music or Easter

decorations, lol. I do like to see different styles of religious services out of cultural curiosity.

I'd like to go to a Catholic Mass, for instance. Because it's such a quaint and ancient custom.

[Union Scribe]

131. So how do you quantify such percentages

if you're just going to call one group liars to fit your pre-conceived notions?

[Lars39]

11. I have to admit there was a lot of it,

But I think there was a reason for it. I think he's trying to reign in the fundies. Just my theory, but I think he's trying to defang them a bit.

[backwoodsbob]

12. every inauguration in history

has had religious overtones.It is what it is...didn't bother me

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

14. I could've done without it but, it was a strong, powerful speech. nt

[lonestarnot]

15. What religious crapola?

Did you go to Church?

[cynatnite]

16. I don't like the emphasis on it, but it wasn't overly bothersome. n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

20. Yup, pretty much. nt

[forestpath]

18. K&R Religion has no place in government - EVER.

[WinkyDink]

87. Get over it. It's on our CURRENCY.

[forestpath]

90. And it shouldn't be. GET OVER IT YOURSELF.

[kestrel91316]

115. No governing went on today. This was a glorified coming-out party.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

151. Let's face it. It's an ecumenical church service.

Invocation. Benediction. Couple of hymns. The POTUS delivering the sermon.

It is what it is.

[Third Doctor]

19. I didn't mind it.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

21. god, protect me from your followers!

[WinkyDink]

89. Irony:

[NYC Liberal]

22. It was practically nothing compared to past ones.

[Duckhunter935]

23. no bother to me

To each his own and I know that I will not push my non-belief on others however I will not stop their belief from being observed. This is for all people.

[arely staircase]

24. if you had ever seen a presidential inaugural before you would have known what to expect

and therefore couldn't have been disappointed.

[WinkyDink]

25. Oh, RILLY? You must have been "disappoint[ed]" every 4 years, then.

[Coyotl]

29. Every day that Congress is in session is another afront to the Constitution when a prayer is said

The United States was created during the Age of Enlightenment and we seem to have been going backwards since then on the religious separation front.

[WinkyDink]

83. I know all about the Enlightenment and Deism, having taught some British history.

I ALSO know that these complaints today are RIDICULOUS in their IGNORING American tradition and EXPECTING that Obama somehow OFFEND the MAJORITY of Americans by going full-bore secular.

AND I strongly suspect that some are by, how to say this, non-fans of Obama.

[kestrel91316]

117. Careful with that type of thinking. You'll get in trouble like I did.

The coordinated attacks on "too much religion at this inauguration" seemed pretty obvious to me.

[MessiahRp]

140. ^^ Oh Noes. The Religious people are being persecuted again! ^^

Give me a break. Catered to at every turn during election season, in Congress, by the Media and local businesses. There's a reason that America stays so Christian... a massive propaganda campaign has been waged for centuries here. So when a few atheists or non-believers call out the idiocy of pushing religion during government events or in government policy despite the forefathers' strong attempts at Separation of Church and State, you need to stop whining and crying about victimization. Christians are the LEAST victimized group in this country. They control EVERYTHING. In our previous Presidential Election, our candidates felt the need to go to a fucking church with fundie Rick Warren and pronounce who loved God MORE.

And you might be able to write off yesterday as a one off, if they didn't open every day in Congress with a Prayer, if Washington didn't push for prayer in schools or want public money to fund Christian Private Schools or if their Department of Defense wasn't allowing weapons manufacturers to put bible verses on weapons used against Muslims or if they weren't indoctrinating soldiers into Christianity in the military ranks....

So yes, this was one event but it was a microcosm of the rest of the situation here in America.

[kestrel91316]

144. I am completely opposed to all the things you list

but I am NOT opposed to nondenominational invocations and benedictions at a celebratory function full of centuries of tradition.

[lindysalsagal]

31. Until the 1950's, during McCarthyism, we weren't one nation under god.

So, yeah, people who are able to live without the magic crutch/ giant daddy in the sky/ group mania are disappointed every time we have to endure other people's religious posturing.

Every chance they get, they try to shove an imaginary god down our throats, all while conducting wars and starving the poor and refusing health care to the poor....

It's all window dressing, and we tire of it.

[AlbertCat]

80. Until the 1950's,

Excellent post! My thoughts as well.

Mainly.... who wants a government that depends on the supernatural for help???? No one. Not even the religious. It's just more "you can't have morals/good judgement without religion" BS.

[lindysalsagal]

26. He more than made up for it with the really inclusive benediction, IMHO

It would have been the next impeachable scandal had he erased all the religious traditions. More important fires to put out.

[WinkyDink]

78. So which is it, then?

[Coyotl]

27. Disappointing would be an understatement. It is a scandal of Constitutional proportions

and the irrepentant pandering to the religiously deluded is contrary to the founding ideals of the nation.

[WinkyDink]

86. Did you post this in January, 2001?

[Coyotl]

100. You can't imagine what I spewed on Junta day.

[JoePhilly]

30. I demand equal time every year at Thanksgiving after my father-in-law

says grace.

[Taverner]

32. As an Atheist....

And a Positive Atheist at that...

I have no problem with it. The President is a Christian, and I respect that.

Not the beliefs behind it, but I respect his right to practice and will stand in solidarity with ANYONE who shows empathy

[kestrel91316]

119. THANK YOU.

[GoCubsGo]

33. Yes, and I thinking that during the ceremony.

I wish for the day when this kind of thing is irrelevant. We're inaugurating a president, not a pope.

[Buzz Clik]

35. No.

You need to rethink your avatar.

[MineralMan]

43. +1

[Iggo]

36. I'm tired of it in general...

...but some of this ceremonial shit...well, you just gotta let it slide.

There's another thread somewhere on DU where someone posted that they changed the channel when Battle Hymn Of The Republic came on. Like they weren't going to change the channel when the holy-joe said his prayer, or when The Prez put his hand on the bible, and "so help me god", and "god bless America", and everything else that's part of the show.

So yeah, I'm tired of it. I don't like it. I'm sure as hell disappointed that we as a culture haven't progressed beyond this childish hocus-pocus. But we is where we is, kids.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Point to one inauguration in US history without any of this

You mean you can't...

The us is the most religious advanced economy. And I say this as somebody who does not believe in God.

[WinkyDink]

85. The multiple posts of gripes are verging on the disingenuous, for me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. I might agree that I'd prefer a 100% secular ceremony

But this is not the place to pick a fight. Hell, how many of these folks realize there is an invocation at the begining of business in every level of government? They are sincere, remove them from insert city council here...start there.

[Art_from_Ark]

136. Thomas Jefferson's First Inaugural Address

http://www.princeton.edu/~tjpapers/inaugural/infinal.html

[Raine]

38. Nope, didn't bother me. I was focused on the history & beauty of it. nt

[longship]

39. I found it off-putting and exclusionary.

In a most disgusting way. I know Barack Obama is religious, and that's fine with me. But the inauguration is a civil ceremony, not a freaking church service. There is absolutely no need for all these prayers. They just did another before the luncheon under the Capital Rotundra.

It's all crapola. If people want to pray, they are free to do so. But it does not belong in these strictly civil proceedings.

And I don't give a shit whether Washington had a prayer or not. That would have made him wrong as well. Thomas Paine is rolling in his grave.

[kestrel91316]

47. The civil, legal ceremony was YESTERDAY. This was a public

celebration and there is NO obligation to omit spiritual matters.

[longship]

50. Do you mean...

...that it would been inappropriate to frame the inaugural in such religiosity if it hadn't been that January 20, 2013 was a Sunday? Which was the sole reason why Barack Obama was administered an oath Sunday, and on Monday.

His presidency ended at midnight Sunday, January 20, 2013. If he had not taken the oath officially on that date, the US would not have a president until he took the oath today. That is why when inaugural day, January 20, is on a Sunday the president is officially inaugurated that day, and then the public inauguration is a mere symbolic echo.

The most important questions here might very well be:

1. What's wrong with inaugurating a president on Sunday? Especially since it is going to be inevitably wrapped in such disgusting religiosity?

2. What would Jewish citizens think if the inauguration was on Saturday? I ask this question with tongue in cheek. Since Christians are the ones who make the first day of the week the seventh day of the week. Maybe the majority of this country is Christian, but this is by no measure a Christian country.

There is nothing in the US Constitution that forbids the oath of office happening on Sunday. The fact that Barack Obama, and other presidents before him, took the actual oath on that day speaks volumes.

If I were elected president and my inaugural day fell on a Sunday, that is the day I would do the public ceremony.

Fuck this Sunday exclusion. It's just a day of the week, like every other. For many, there is no difference, even many religious people.

[Bake]

105. You're wrong. Inauguration Day is the High Holy Day of our "civil religion"

Always has been. It never has been a "strictly civil proceeding." Sorry that disgusts you, but that's the way it is.

Bake

[longship]

129. Gees Louise! I am not buying that. nt

[MineralMan]

41. I've been an atheist since 1965, and it didn't bother me.

Every inauguration includes some religious references. Why? Because Christianity is the dominant religion in this country. Why should anyone be surprised.

[Arugula Latte]

42. Yep. To quote Dieter: Religious ones, "your story has become tiresome."

[AzDar]

44. I'm always hopeful that at some point our country will be able to shake off these binding chains...

of superstition and divisiveness.

We'll be better for it.


Someday.

[kestrel91316]

46. Please explain how this particular inauguration was ANY different in this regard

from any OTHER presidential inauguration. I'll be waiting for your detailed response.

I bet you never cared when it was Bush and his overtly Christian and discriminatory/exclusionary claptrap, either.

This was a very typical inaugural ceremony. I didn't smell anything denominational.

But thanks for promoting this falsehood. Enjoy that paycheck, too!

[riderinthestorm]

49. I can't speak for the OP but this one's not any different. Therein lies the problem.

Religion shouldn't be a part of a secular transfer of power (or a reaffirmation of power as is the case of a second term).

This isn't about a comparison contest. Its just an observation that its tiresome that it has to have this much religiosity at all. For either party.

[LanternWaste]

71. Symbolism should divest itself of symbolism.

"Religion shouldn't be a part of a secular transfer of power (or a reaffirmation of power as is the case of a second term)."

Ie., Symbolism should divest itself of symbolism. The imaginary should deny the imaginary. Many wholly make-believe constructs (politics and economics) should never recognize the existence of other make-believe constructs (religion) because that would be silly/exclusionary/too imaginary...

[kestrel91316]

120. This was not a secular transfer of power. That happened yesterday.

Today was a coming out party of sorts.

I refuse to get my panties in a wad over this. Virtually nobody bitched when Bush declared this a Christian nation on more than one occasion. THAT was a problem

[longship]

132. The only reason there was an oath yesterday was that it was Sunday!

And that was the day his term ended and the public inaugural ceremony is not held on Sunday because it is the freaking Christian sabbath.

So much for your argument.

[zappaman]

48. As an aetheist

I couldn't care less.

[RebelOne]

160. Atheist here also and I could also care less.

To each his/her own and whatever floats their boat.

[hack89]

51. Nope - thought it was very appropriate. nt

[Dawson Leery]

52. At least the evangelical kooks were not invited to this one.

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. If this is all you have to worry about today...well then...

Yay for you. Your life must be super awesome.

[HappyMe]

54. So, no comment about the President's speech.

Just complaining.

Have you never, ever watched an inauguration before.

[swayne]

55. I don't see anyone "establishing" religion. Let's not become "kooks" like the right wingers.

We'll suck one this issue as much as they do on others if we started acting and talking sh*t on this.


Leave it alone. We (progressives) can't win this fight to destroy religion, any more than religion can destroy government.

[LiberalElite]

67. What "fight to destroy religion"?

Now, that sounds like a right wing sound bite. I'm not out to destroy religion, it just annoys me to hear so many prayerful references to it in what is a SECULAR country.

[kestrel91316]

121. Thank you for your concern.

[Union Scribe]

133. So they can have their religion

as long as it's in a basement and never ever mentioned in public. The Obamas should have a priest hole in the White House, lol. I don't know what dictionary some of you are using, or what Constitution you're looking at, but you have absolutely zero right to live free of other people's--including the President's--references to their religion.

[Walk away]

58. My dream on MLK day is that religion will someday be abolished from our....

government. It has no place and it is offensive and dangerous to celebrate a "christian", "muslim" or "jewish" agenda. Until that day finally comes I'll just have to take the slap in the face that my fellow Americans feel free to deal me.

[slackmaster]

59. It's the President's prerogative.

Complain to him about it if you feel strongly enough to bother.

[bvar22]

60. I remember JFK's inagural address in 1961.

the "ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country" speech.

I was 10 years old at the time,
and couldn't recall any god, deity, religion, or churches being mentioned at all.
So I looked up the text of the speech,
and found that I was wrong.
JFK DID mention "god" 3 times.

Mention #1, in paragraph 1:

"For I have sworn before you and Almighty God the same solemn oath our forbears prescribed nearly a century and three-quarters ago.

Mention #2, in paragraph 2:

"And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe--the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.

Mention #3, in the closing sentence:

"With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own."

I wouldn't call that speech full of "Religious Crapola"
In fact, THAT speech was about as Non-Religious as it is possible to get.

Those in this thread insisting that ALL inaugurals are a God/Religion Love Fest,
really should go read JFK's Inaugural Address.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0120/JFK-s-1961-inaugural-address-The-text



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[riderinthestorm]

62. I'm actually amused bvar. Its not more or less religious imho from past inaugurals.

So those who are positing that it is, or isn't, are amusing to me. I don't see anyone really making that argument though.

What SOME DUers are saying is that its a shame that there has to be (or is already included) so much religiosity at all. That it should be a secular transfer of power and that the demonstrable religious aspects should be left off.

Its definitely very low on the scale of things to complain about today. Its just DU doing its thing. All in all, it was a lovely ceremony. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it. President Obama's speech completely rocked - it was everything I wished it would be.

Looking forward to a great next four years. Thanks for the JFK references. I loved them.

[WinkyDink]

91. You really needed to research more (I was 10, also):

January 20, 1961 inaugural of John F. Kennedy
--Invocation by His Eminence Cardinal Richard Cushing - Catholic
--Prayer by His Eminence Iakovos, Greek Orthodox
--Prayer by Rev. Dr. John Barclay, pastor of the Central Christian Church of Austin, Texas
--Benediction by Rabbi Nelson Glueck - Jewish

1961 - John F. Kennedy attended the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass at Holy Trinity Church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayers_at_United_States_presidential_inaugurations

[Number23]

99. Thread winner.

Wow. That's gonna leave a mark.

[Richard D]

63. Not so much disappointing . . .

. . . as much as dated and unnecessary.

[LiberalElite]

64. me too eom

[backscatter712]

65. I am glad Obama's inauguration people sent that anti-gay fundie packing...

and replaced him with a pastor with a decently positive message.

[pnwmom]

66. I loved it when the orthodox Archbishop said this was the greatest honor of his life.

So, no, I'm not disappointed.

[robinlynne]

68. I noticed Jesus was very present. didn't think anyone else would notice.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

69. I found it disappointing because it's always expected...

and no one yet has exhibited the braveness to buck tradition. I suspect things will be better in another generation or so.

[kestrel91316]

122. Obama in particular has to tread very carefully here, what with the constant

FALSE accusation of being a muslim. He knows he would be unwise to give the christofascists any ammunition against him in that regard. And going secular would make them go ballistic (probably literally).

Nothing Obama or any other person in the inauguration said did anything harmful to nonreligious Americans.

[onenote]

70. yeah, all this religious "crapola" on the birthday of Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.

The nerve.

[progressoid]

142. Seems to me this was an inauguration.

But if we are talking about MLK Day, isn't that a celebration of his civil rights leadership rather than his faith?

[onenote]

143. If you know anything about Reverend King

you know that his faith was inseparable from his civil rights leadership, as was the faith of many others (and not just Christians) that fought for civil rights.

Which is why the antipathy and, in many cases, outright hostitlity, shown on DU to people of faith is so boneheaded.

[progressoid]

148. So that's what we were celebrating yesterday?

Faith?

There's another boneheaded idea that a lot of Americans have - a separation between church and state.

oh well.

[onenote]

149. we were celebrating two things: the inauguration of a president and the life of great man

And that great man happened to be a man of faith, a minister of his church whose life was informed by and guided by his religious beliefs.

And nothing in the Constitution requires us to sweep under a rug the fact that he was a man of faith. Unless of course you think it was a violation of church and state to even make the birthday of a minister a federal holiday.

[iandhr]

72. The Battle Hymn of the Republic is an American classic.

The fact that a hero of the civil rights movement did the invocation and a very progressive minister did the benidiction I thought was great.

And I consider myself to agnostic.

[adieu]

73. Being an atheist

Of course!

[LWolf]

75. A little.

It's exclusive, not inclusive.

[vduhr]

76. Not at all.

I'm Agnostic, but it's part of the ceremony. What I found annoying was the poetry.

[kestrel91316]

123. I don't really care much for either Kelly Clarkson or Beyonce. They both annoyed me far more

than any gratuitous, rote reference to God.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

77. To me, it was about like this....

It's all part of the show.

[Speck Tater]

79. Why would I be disappointed in something that lets me feel superior?

Every chance to smile condescendingly upon our inferiors should be treasured, not regretted.

[whatchamacallit]

82. Obviously, separation of church and state isn't important

when we're in power.

[treestar]

88. I expected it, so there is no way to be disappointed

I do think even religious people need to recognize that the government is secular and that the government never mentioning God is a good thing, in recognition that it is secular and that if the government never mentions religion, then religion is safe from the government. They fail to understand that their very religious freedom is based upon the fact the government does not recognize their religion either.

[DavidDvorkin]

92. It was more than disappointing. It was obnoxious.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

94. It is part of the traditions.

It is like England having a bunch of Ravens at the Tower of London.

[cordelia]

95. Not in the least.

Been a part of the ritual for a long time and will be for a long, long time to come.

[davidthegnome]

96. I found it remarkably irrelevant

But I'm checking in anyway, because I find the outrage ridiculous. Just thought I'd drop by to say amen, you know? Amen.

[Skittles]

97. so used to it I just tune it out

accept that great majority of the world cannot live in the real world without believing in whatever it takes to help them live in the real world

[tularetom]

98. Didn't bother me because I did not watch it

I knew there was no place I could watch without getting pissed off. Not necessarily with the religious stuff although that was part of it. What's worse is the politicizing and labeling of every aspect of the ceremony. "Liberals" will like a certain statement but "conservatives" will object to it. Or vice versa. As if every issue and everybody can be pigeonholed into a neat little category.

I sure as hell was not going to watch on Fox or CNN and I knew MSNBC would have that drooling idiot Chris Matthews on so that was out too.

It was the first warm day we've had in about a month so I spent the day outside pruning, irrigating and getting our vegetable garden ready for planting.

Seems I missed an inspiring speech from the president but I'm sure he'll make more of them.

[allGoodThings]

101. I do too.

It isn't necessary

[ann---]

103. So did I and

I'm a student of Buddhism. All that seems like "fakery" to me and is certainly not needed at a GOVERNMENT sponsored event like an inauguration. I think an appropriate "moment of silence" at the ceremony and at lunch would have been enough for people of ALL faiths (or non-faith) to think for one moment what this event really means in a democracy. And, to silently wish/pray for our president and other elected officials to be responsive to ALL its citizens in the coming 4 years.

[moondust]

104. I think some people feel more comfortable

just hearing those holding temporal power acknowledge that they are not God, that there is a higher power than themselves--even if they don't believe it.

[NBachers]

106. Jesus Christ will you give it a fuckin' rest?

[Fumesucker]

113. Yeah, that's pretty much what the OP wants, give Jesus Christ a rest He's all worn out n/t

[Pisces]

112. Get over yourself!! 80% of this country which Obama represents is religious!!

[Egalitarian Thug]

153. Yeah, fuck those one out five Americans!

[Pisces]

166. Close your ears when the prayer part comes. I am not religious and somehow found it ok to listen

during the prayer.

[Egalitarian Thug]

167. I don't really care one way or the other, but I find the utter lack of empathy astonishing.

This is the equivalent of our government talking about any minority being subhuman, beneath consideration. Sure it went on for decades for them as well, and just like the atheists, they were expected to shut up and take it because they're a small minority.

It's times like this that I really think the world would be far better off without humans.

[Pisces]

170. Wrong, Obama has always mentioned nonbelievers. You are trying to make an issue of a non issue.

[Whisp]

116. I didn't notice. I tune out all that religious crapola. n/t

[Tikki]

118. It just feeds to a different crowd...

It's kinda like when Wall Street talks about pork-bellies..

But, whatever...doesn't change my non believer World a bit...



Tikki

[Egalitarian Thug]

125. The American Taliban, and by that I mean all of the desperately wishful that devote so much of their

lives trying to appease a fantasy-daddy, is destroying this nation.

[Union Scribe]

134. Obama = Taliban. Good contribution dude. nt

[Egalitarian Thug]

146. Delusion is delusion, who it is that holds the delusion doesn't matter.

If you honestly believe in the existence of some omnipotent, invisible sky-daddy that is capable of make everything better, then relying on this fantasy being to do so becomes a viable possibility, and that is not a good thing. It allows for both inaction when action is required and abdication of responsibility, neither trait has any place in governance.

[kwassa]

147. Whatever. Can I hook you up to the live feed of the presidential prayer service happening now at

National Cathedral?

http://inthecapital.com/2013/01/22/watch-the-inaugural-prayer-service-washington-national-cathedral-live-stream-video/#ss__37326_1_0__ss

[onenote]

154. No thanks. Not interested.

Not bothered by it either. It also doesn't bother me if and when the president goes to church on Sunday or if he says grace before eating meals. That's his prerogative.

[Egalitarian Thug]

162. Whatever, no. n/t

[onenote]

150. And yet it was exactly that: an honest belief in some "omnipotent sky daddy" that enabled and

inspired Martin Luther King to become the great leader of the civil rights movement. And why so many other great leaders of the civil rights movement came out of religious traditions. Explain that "inaction" thing to me again.

[Egalitarian Thug]

152. You give credit where none exists and proceed from that false premise.

Your reply states that these people's actions were due to their religiosity without any evidence that those people would not have taken those actions without it.

It credits religion with the good done by people, but ignores the bad things done in the name of religion, which is typical of the religiously deluded. Good things are due to God, bad things are the fault of someone/thing else.

[onenote]

155. Now you're just embarassing yourself.

Not sure why you are so quick to show off how little you know about Dr. King, but that's your choice. If you would like to actually learn more about him and how important religion was to his civil rights activism, I suggest you read up on Howard Thurman, the book Jesus and the Disinherited, and Dr. King.

For the record, I'm not a Christian, and never have been.
Also for the record, good things are done by religious people and bad things are done religous people. Sometimes religion, or that person's understanding of religion, is very influential in why they do good things and sometimes its very influential in why they do bad things. And of course, not being a religious person doesn't make you a good person or a bad person either.

In Dr. King's case, it was undeniably an important positive influence despite your apparent wish to ignore that facet of his life.

And finally, for the record, I don't think that Dr. King would have had the same influence and impact had he not presented his views from the perspective of a minister. Churches were at the heart of the civil rights movement because churches were at the heart of the African-American community.

[Egalitarian Thug]

156. So, you have no argument and resort to insult. Again, typical.

[onenote]

158. Sorry if you feel insulted. But you are pretending to know things you don't know about Dr. King.

Last edited Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Might Dr. King have been a great civil rights leader without being a minister? Maybe. Certainly not impossible. But the point isn't that he might have achieved great things without being directly inspired by his religious faith. The point is that he WAS directly inspired by his religious faith and thus it is an important part of who he is and what he accomplished.

I have many friends that were first inspired to get involved in politics by John F. Kennedy. Might they have gotten involved anyway? Of course. But that doesn't change the fact that they were inspired by JFK and that his inspiration plays a large part in who they are and what they think about government service and it would be presenting a less than full picture of their lives to pretend otherwise.

[Egalitarian Thug]

161. I'm not insulted at all, but that was clearly your intent.

You are still trying to argue that same false premise.

MLK's leadership and speaking skills were what enabled him to what he did.

I think that, judging by his background and his own words, we can be pretty sure that he would credit his faith with his achievements, but that credit doesn't alter the reality that it was he, the man, that did those things, not some phantom wielding his magical wand from on high. Now, why not wonder how many other potential MLKs didn't achieve what he did years earlier because their faith lead them to leave it up to God?

My point was twofold and remains. The absence of belief in a myth does not preclude accomplishment, but it does open the possibility of either relying on that myth to take the necessary actions or for abdicating responsibility for actions taken and that's the problem with this mass delusion that increasingly blurs the line between faith and government.

We have, more now than ever before, an enormous population that believes in the literal existence of a delusion, and further, they believe that we must place the future of our nation and probably the world into the non-existent hands of these delusions. Pandering to insanity is a bad idea and not that long ago almost everybody understood this.

[ZombieHorde]

126. I didn't watch it, so it didn't bother me in the slightest. nt

[A HERETIC I AM]

128. Listening to it on the radio..

While working/driving today, I caught only snippets. If I didn't know better, I would have thought I had a religious station tuned instead of NPR.

[RedCappedBandit]

130. It simply does not belong in government.

We need laws based on science and reason, not myth and superstition.

[JoeyT]

135. Meh.

Had he not sprinkled his speech with at least SOME references to religious stuff, many people would have lost their minds. Given all the stuff we're trying to accomplish, I think in his shoes I might have tossed some in too, just to keep the resistance from our own side to a minimum, and I'm an atheist.

I would think that to find it disappointing I would have to have assumed it wasn't going to be there in the first place, which is a mighty big assumption.

[quinnox]

138. I didn't see any of it, and skipped it on purpose but

it sounds like it was almost a church service in the preaching and religious stuff. That would have been very off-putting to me.

The main reason, is it perpetuates the notion that "GOD favors the United States" and "We are the country GOD backs" This is something I have a huge problem with, because it goes hand in hand with jingoism and hyper-patriotism and leads people to think no matter what, our country is doing the right thing and we are always noble in our actions. I see this attitude a lot, even on DU.

Especially when we have morally bankrupt policies of assassinating anyone in the world we choose to, and the innocent victims that are killed is just considered unfortunate collateral damage. Moral bankruptcy should not be backed up and sanctioned by supposed divine approval.

[cali]

139. lol. you didn't see it or hear it but of course you don't let that little tiny detail

stop you from pontificating.

I do so love the stench of hypocrisy emanating from thee.

[HappyMe]

141. Why, if you didn't see it,

are you commenting on it? Why are you even here?

I would suggest you look to the other side of the aisle for true moral bankruptcy.

[quinnox]

145. I can piece together what it was like from reading various posts on DU

Kind of like I don't need to go see some stupid torture porn horror movie to know I will hate it, I can tell just by reading the reviews.

It doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes to figure some things out like this really.

[mike_c]

157. skipped it altogether but I despise religous claptrap....

When the praying and praising invisible friends starts, I stop paying attention.

[onenote]

159. So you've never listened to Dr. King's entire I Have A Dream Speech

Or his Drum Major Instict sermon, or his Eulogy for the Martyred Children of Birmingham AL.

Good for you??

[TheManInTheMac]

164. I didn't pay any attention to it but, given all the outrage caused by it,

I'm delighted. Love seeing people offended, disgusted, or otherwise disgusted by stupid shit they don't even believe in.

[rainlillie]

169. I agree. You know what's funny.. Is some folks on the right

bitch if he doesn't put God in, and Some folks on the left bitch if he does put God in. Unbelievable!

[rainlillie]

165. Typical is rather boring.

[lanlady]

168. all the more reason...

... to hope we'll have an atheist president in our lifetime.