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Carlos Miller gets roughed up again in Miami for taking pictures (Original Post) RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 OP
I don't see the rationale for Carlos's antics. FarPoint Jan 2013 #1
Yeah. He would have been better off if he just kept his mouth shut RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 #3
A set-up is weak....It has no impact... FarPoint Jan 2013 #4
You are assuming he was setting it up RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 #6
I assume nothing. FarPoint Jan 2013 #9
I guess I'm going to have to watch again... Earth_First Jan 2013 #11
Still do not see it... Earth_First Jan 2013 #14
Let me guess, MLK Jr. was an attention-whore, making a "setup" in Selma? backscatter712 Jan 2013 #97
Have you no shame? FarPoint Jan 2013 #103
What's shameful about it. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #106
My point is how Carlos set-up the confrontation for his own gains. FarPoint Jan 2013 #117
I don't see a "setup" here... Earth_First Jan 2013 #7
What setup are you referring to? EOTE Jan 2013 #67
Sounds to me like you need to get your laws/facts sorted out... Earth_First Jan 2013 #5
Carlos went there for a confrontation...He wanted this to happen deliberately...it was his mission. FarPoint Jan 2013 #8
You know this *how* from that video? Earth_First Jan 2013 #10
None of this was unprompted by Carlos... FarPoint Jan 2013 #15
He filmed what rules? No smoking? Earth_First Jan 2013 #17
Even if everything you say is true ... so what? baldguy Jan 2013 #12
I place a set-up like this under the FarPoint Jan 2013 #18
Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #19
I think they are upset the entire ecounter is on video RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 #21
That's usually how it works... Earth_First Jan 2013 #25
No.... FarPoint Jan 2013 #30
So the guards were in on it? RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 #31
Disturbing to you demwing Jan 2013 #35
It is a manipulative video. FarPoint Jan 2013 #38
Maybe you're just better than everyone else demwing Jan 2013 #42
Don't expect these authoritarian fuckstains to have the capacity for making sense. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #92
What about Rosa Parks? Did you know that she planned what she did on that bus? proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #110
Oh, that's right, this was a planned confrontation! backscatter712 Jan 2013 #111
Remember when Carlos was a hero here on DU? proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #112
I think of him as a hero. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #114
What was his DU nom de plum? senseandsensibility Jan 2013 #118
Raging in Miami proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #120
Again - SO WHAT? If anything, self promotion is protected by the 1st Amendment. baldguy Jan 2013 #26
It is protected. FarPoint Jan 2013 #34
Just admit you don't like Carlos RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 #36
You read way too much into my posts. FarPoint Jan 2013 #39
Oh bullshit, they punked themselves Downtown Hound Jan 2013 #104
That was the point I was going to make. RC Jan 2013 #52
We don't know if he was arrested from the video. FarPoint Jan 2013 #27
And cops arresting people for violating non-existant laws isn't abuse or entrapment? baldguy Jan 2013 #28
Freedom is not a trap demwing Jan 2013 #98
Yes, it's so inconvenient for the authorities when someone has a video of them misbehaving Fumesucker Jan 2013 #13
Never doubt DU's ability to side with authority. TransitJohn Jan 2013 #24
Seems DU *IS* on the right side of this demwing Jan 2013 #37
I'm not siding with authorities.... FarPoint Jan 2013 #41
Yes, you are siding with the authorities muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #49
Are you fucking serious trumad Jan 2013 #16
The video rules by the Metro are not where my grief lies at the moment... FarPoint Jan 2013 #20
Answer the fucking question trumad Jan 2013 #22
Read my posts... FarPoint Jan 2013 #32
so he should have been arrested? trumad Jan 2013 #51
you just referred to the rules and now won't say which ones CreekDog Jan 2013 #77
You and others are addressing rules FarPoint Jan 2013 #79
you did address the rules, but now are wishing that post would go away CreekDog Jan 2013 #80
I see Carlos's video as a manlipution. FarPoint Jan 2013 #99
Your being assumptive. Fail. Opinion by your own logic you should be arrested for PUI. Ellipsis Jan 2013 #102
WHAT RULES AGAINST VIDEO/PHOTOGRAPHY?! Earth_First Jan 2013 #23
From the Miami-Dade County Metrorail website: Comrade_McKenzie Jan 2013 #29
Key words RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 #33
More accurately, the security guards had no way of knowing, and assumed the worst. Robb Jan 2013 #44
I'd say he's educating people about police brutality and repression effectively enough. n/t backscatter712 Jan 2013 #95
Don't see any references to any video recording or photography for "Personal Use" there. Ikonoklast Jan 2013 #45
Lol, no. Daniel537 Jan 2013 #108
It is not legal to take pictures in the subway in NYC and many mass transit places in the US & world stevenleser Jan 2013 #40
Post a link to the NYC law about pictures of the subway being illegal. Because... Logical Jan 2013 #46
See my #62 stevenleser Jan 2013 #63
What about in Miami? The incident took place in Miami quinnox Jan 2013 #47
That's false, just not true. Here is a list of most US cities and their regs, NY included Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #61
Here is the link: http://gothamist.com/2005/01/07/the_history_of_taking_pictures_on_the_subway.php stevenleser Jan 2013 #62
Wow, that is 7 years old. Here is the real truth and the real link to the MTA rules...... Logical Jan 2013 #113
Standing up for his rights, what an asshole! LOL n-t Logical Jan 2013 #43
Carlos is a former DUer...He's legit Blue_Tires Jan 2013 #68
RagingInMiami is still a registered member here... countryjake Jan 2013 #88
The cops forced the confrontation. immoderate Jan 2013 #78
Remember when you were afraid to photograph your own country? It was not that long 2on2u Jan 2013 #2
What a moron. greytdemocrat Jan 2013 #48
explain please trumad Jan 2013 #50
Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #54
Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #57
Ahhh, so you support arresting people who annoy you. EOTE Jan 2013 #73
What law did Carlos break? GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #82
How so? Heidi Jan 2013 #53
Carlos is an old DUer Generic Other Jan 2013 #55
LOL...Here's another that defends his rights snooper2 Jan 2013 #60
Here's some truth: I feel less threatened by open carry folks Heidi Jan 2013 #65
most people don't know the law, some of them are supposed to enforce it snooper2 Jan 2013 #66
Public spaces within plain view can be lawfully photographed. Heidi Jan 2013 #71
I just like the vidoes snooper2 Jan 2013 #75
Carlos knows his rights Generic Other Jan 2013 #85
Sides? I was just posting vidoes lol snooper2 Jan 2013 #86
You create a false equivalency Generic Other Jan 2013 #91
Blah, they are all youtubers trying to get channel views... snooper2 Jan 2013 #96
What a staggeringly idiotic comparison. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2013 #101
+1000 Blue_Tires Jan 2013 #69
For those who don't get why what Carlos Miller is doing is important: Heidi Jan 2013 #56
The couple of knuckleheads in this thread who think Carlos deserved this... trumad Jan 2013 #58
Not only that, they haven't been on DU long enough to know Carlos Blue_Tires Jan 2013 #70
That would require effort, though. Heidi Jan 2013 #72
thanks that is a useful reference quinnox Jan 2013 #59
THANK YOU! csziggy Jan 2013 #74
Isn't it a little hyperbolic to say taking pictures is a constituional right? randome Jan 2013 #116
It falls under freedom of expression, and freedom of the press. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #119
No. (nt) Heidi Jan 2013 #121
Heck No. ellisonz Jan 2013 #124
Absolutely not. N/T beevul Jan 2013 #125
Apparentlly regjoe Jan 2013 #64
Submit. Obey. Conform. That is the duty of all Good Americans. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #76
Nice to see Carlos is still giving 'em hell. Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #81
I was given a "talking to" Saturday on the DC metro for taking a pic w/iPhone justiceischeap Jan 2013 #83
Good to see Carlos still educating the cops and security. ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #84
Was his username RaginginMiami? Rex Jan 2013 #87
Take a look at this thread and guess! countryjake Jan 2013 #89
I am trying to avoid the sub-thread war. Rex Jan 2013 #90
Here: ellisonz Jan 2013 #123
Thank you. Rex Jan 2013 #127
K&R for Carlos. N/T beevul Jan 2013 #93
+1 n/t X_Digger Jan 2013 #115
This is what MALFEASANCE looks like Hutzpa Jan 2013 #94
I guessed that the submit-obey-conform crowd would be all over this, and look.. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2013 #100
DU's own Right Wing Authoritarians. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #105
Yep. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2013 #107
+1. Absofuckinglutely correct... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #122
And thouroughly disgusting. N/T beevul Jan 2013 #126
Stanley Milgram and Philip Zimbardo would not be a bit surprised: friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #128
This message was self-deleted by its author Daniel537 Jan 2013 #109
Hey guys, RagingInMiami Jan 2013 #129
Meh, screw the authoritarians. Rock on. n/t X_Digger Jan 2013 #130
Rage on Carlos! RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 #131

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
1. I don't see the rationale for Carlos's antics.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:33 AM
Jan 2013

Seems like he forced the confrontation. I'm more interested in unprovoked harassment issues with law enforcement. I don't support a set-up. No accolades from me.

RandiFan1290

(6,229 posts)
3. Yeah. He would have been better off if he just kept his mouth shut
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:49 AM
Jan 2013

and obeyed like a good American! So what if they didn't do anything wrong.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
97. Let me guess, MLK Jr. was an attention-whore, making a "setup" in Selma?
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:10 PM
Jan 2013

Oooh, confronting police violating civil rights and anticipating them becoming violent? How "childish and attention-seeking".

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
103. Have you no shame?
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:58 PM
Jan 2013

I'm offended by your MLK reference. I refer to a lame video and call it manipulation ..you find it perfectly reasonable to insult Martin Luther King.
That is shameful behavior in my house..

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
106. What's shameful about it.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:09 PM
Jan 2013

I compared two people standing up for their civil rights, who were unjustly attacked by law enforcement for it.

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
117. My point is how Carlos set-up the confrontation for his own gains.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:16 PM
Jan 2013

I'm not addressing the issue of the arrest/ removal from the Metro platform or the officers...

I think it was a cheap, manipulative act on his part. He staged the event....He was not taking pictures for his personal use or desire when all of the sudden the officers surprisingly confront him for taking pictures which they say is against rules/law... If it had happened in that fashion, it would be credible and worthy of outrage.

Carlos did it this premeditated act just to evoke the confrontation. That is a set-up. It apparently is something he has done before, so he accomplished his mission, to make a scene and provide such on video for YouTube and DU'ers to give him accolades. I call it impotent.

Earth_First

(14,910 posts)
7. I don't see a "setup" here...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:55 AM
Jan 2013

In the video you will see that the transit cop says that he believes that Miller has been drinking.

Miller responds "Yes, I have been that's why we're taking the Metro" (paraphrased)

So it sounds to me like Miller, a professional photographer; saw a nice shot while waiting for the Metro, and was harassed while getting a few photographs.

Where is the setup?

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
67. What setup are you referring to?
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:03 PM
Jan 2013

Or are you just doing some cop ass-kissing? The cops get enough support of their own, they don't need folks like you excusing their illegal and abhorrent activity. Rights don't do any good if they're not exercised. And excusing illegal activities by cops is more than just childish, it's unamerican.

Earth_First

(14,910 posts)
5. Sounds to me like you need to get your laws/facts sorted out...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:52 AM
Jan 2013

There was absolutely nothing, nada, zilch that Miller was doing illegal on that platform.

By the way, Miller has a pending civil suit against the Miami-Dade PD after his case with Miami-Dade PD's Chief of Police was brought back not guilty.

You simply cannot refuse the right of a photographer the right to photograph a public building or infrastructure. Period. There's no debate.

You say Miller was being confrontational, setting this up? I see that he was defending his rights to do what he is within every legal right to do.

I'm very willing to be that Miller is vindicated (again) in this situation...

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
8. Carlos went there for a confrontation...He wanted this to happen deliberately...it was his mission.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:59 AM
Jan 2013

He is indeed a menace. Makes it worse and diminishes events for those who truly suffer from harassment.

Attention seeking faux drama.

" Me, Me...over here!"...."Come get me...I'm taking a picture...hey, over here ...look a t me". Then posts a video of the fixed event.

Yea...right Carlos....

Earth_First

(14,910 posts)
10. You know this *how* from that video?
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:04 AM
Jan 2013

"Because he said look here they come, over here..."

If that's the leg you are standing on that this is being setup; it's a weak leg to stand upon.

At the point where the transit authority was dispatched, when transit authority was visibly present in this situation; Miller was legally responsible for maintaining his presence until "Am I being detained?" is/was determined.

Still, there is nothing illegal prior to the scuffle on the escalator.

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
15. None of this was unprompted by Carlos...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:15 AM
Jan 2013

He sets the scene, night time hours just to promote his lawsuit and strategy.

He had the camera rolling and looking for the Officers, filmed the displayed no smoking sign, rules before he was ever approached....He set the viewer up for an expected confrontation due to rule violation. Come on for crying out loud....this was his mission...self promotional, victimization fraud.

It's dishonest.

Earth_First

(14,910 posts)
17. He filmed what rules? No smoking?
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:20 AM
Jan 2013

What "rules" did Miller film here?

Sets the scene? Being out at night sets the scene to promote, what exactly?

I was under the impression that an individual was guaranteed the right to move freely whenever one wanted...what difference does the time of day make here?

NONE.

He had his camera rolling. Yes, any citizen who knows their rights would also be well advised to do so.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
12. Even if everything you say is true ... so what?
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:07 AM
Jan 2013

A member of the public, in a public place, taking a picture of public property should never be prevented from doing so or arrested for it. Period.

Response to FarPoint (Reply #18)

RandiFan1290

(6,229 posts)
21. I think they are upset the entire ecounter is on video
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:29 AM
Jan 2013

If they tape started when the "guards" approached Carlos then the excuse would be... "Well, we didn't see what happened before this"

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
30. No....
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:37 AM
Jan 2013

it's the fraud that is disturbing.

If you believe this video was not a planned outcome/ set-up....then you must believe reality TV isn't fixed either....like Honey Boo Boo..?

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
38. It is a manipulative video.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:02 AM
Jan 2013

I understand his concerns....I disapprove of how he manipulates the outcome....Maybe I can look outside the box better than most.

Maybe I empathise more for real victims verses this weak display by Carlos.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
92. Don't expect these authoritarian fuckstains to have the capacity for making sense.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:57 PM
Jan 2013

He's upset because his cop fuckbuddies were caught yet again being abusive, and can't handle being made to look like the fascist trash they are.

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
110. What about Rosa Parks? Did you know that she planned what she did on that bus?
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:47 PM
Jan 2013

It wasn't just a spur of the moment decision.

Do you consider what she did to be fraudulent?

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
111. Oh, that's right, this was a planned confrontation!
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:49 PM
Jan 2013

She planned it out with the NAACP! Didn't you know, she's a fraud! Civil-disobedience and challenging abusive authority is just attention-whoring!

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
26. Again - SO WHAT? If anything, self promotion is protected by the 1st Amendment.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:32 AM
Jan 2013

And what he's actually doing is exposing the stupidity of stupid laws - or, actually "policies" that aren't really laws at all.

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
34. It is protected.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:53 AM
Jan 2013

Carlos is a drama seeker. Diminishes real events that require our attention....Carlos essentially punked the Metro Officers.

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
39. You read way too much into my posts.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:05 AM
Jan 2013

I don't even know Carlos.

snip>

"Just admit you don't like Carlos"

His video....it is manipulative.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
104. Oh bullshit, they punked themselves
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:05 PM
Jan 2013

No one forced them to go up to Carlos and deny his right to film in a public place. You would have made a great German back in the old days.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
52. That was the point I was going to make.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:16 AM
Jan 2013

Doesn't matter. What he was doing was legal. The security really had no business harassing him, except for intimidation purposes.

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
27. We don't know if he was arrested from the video.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:33 AM
Jan 2013

He was removed from the area is all we know.

I don't like traps....this style just diminishes real abuse events that really should be video logged.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
13. Yes, it's so inconvenient for the authorities when someone has a video of them misbehaving
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:07 AM
Jan 2013

Far better that they illegally harass people who are not prepared for the confrontation.

TransitJohn

(6,932 posts)
24. Never doubt DU's ability to side with authority.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:31 AM
Jan 2013

Remember when this place was always on the liberal side?

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
37. Seems DU *IS* on the right side of this
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:58 AM
Jan 2013

And a lone -- but vocal-- complainer sees it differently.

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
41. I'm not siding with authorities....
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:09 AM
Jan 2013

not even close. I don't buy the video content as being a naturally occurring event...it was a predictable outcome by the videographer....this discredits real abuses.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,306 posts)
49. Yes, you are siding with the authorities
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:13 AM
Jan 2013

The authorities claimed it was illegal to take photos of the track. This seems a pointless law, if it really exists (they never tell Miller what the law is, despite repeated requests to do so), and then arrest him (yes, putting someone in handcuffs is arresting them - if not, then it's illegal imprisonment), for a 'code 35', which appears to be a claim he is drunk. But they started the confrontation.

Miller may well have taken the film hoping to get the guards to try and stop him - because he is peacefully protesting a law, or one interpretation of a law, he (and most of us) see as stupid and authoritarian. This does not 'discredit' anything. It may not be the worst abuse of rights in the world, but it's still an abuse. By criticising him for peacefully protesting, you are siding with the authorities.

 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
16. Are you fucking serious
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:19 AM
Jan 2013

I'll say it again---Are you fucking serious..

HE DIDN'T DO A GOD DAMN THING WRONG OR ILLEGAL!

Not one fucking thing wrong and you think he deserved this shit.

Can't take pictures of the track? Where's the law?

Can't drink alcohol? Where's the fucking law?

One more time---ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
20. The video rules by the Metro are not where my grief lies at the moment...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:28 AM
Jan 2013

It is with the set-up to instigate that is weak and unworthy of the attention. He evoked the confrontation for self serving needs. It equates a prank verses outrage.

This is not how change is made but delayed.

 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
22. Answer the fucking question
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:30 AM
Jan 2013

What law did he break?

What fucking law did he break?

If you say none---which I expect you will.... then what you are advocating is the arrest of a U.S Citizen for no reason.

Really---is that you stance here?

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
32. Read my posts...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:47 AM
Jan 2013

My grief is not with rules being broken etc....that issue has been lost by the fact he instigated the confrontation for video purposes. His intention to evoke a scene to support his law suit come to mind...which he identifies in the video.

It is a cheap, weak shot at the Metro Rules for self promotion.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
77. you just referred to the rules and now won't say which ones
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:37 PM
Jan 2013

if you don't know what you're talking about, nobody is forcing you to talk about it.

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
79. You and others are addressing rules
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:36 PM
Jan 2013

I on the other hand am addressing the totality of the video. Carlos pre planned the outcome as he knew what they would do, thus he intended to evoke confrontation. It was more like entertainment instead of discovery and exposure.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
80. you did address the rules, but now are wishing that post would go away
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:57 PM
Jan 2013

because when confronted over which rules you were referring to, you have nothing.

FarPoint

(12,336 posts)
99. I see Carlos's video as a manlipution.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:31 PM
Jan 2013

He went to the Metro with intent to make a scene and video the event. Premeditated disturbance for the purpose of YouTube hits.

I respect authentic video clips. This is not even close to a respectable " Gotch ya" style...It was predictable... I can't give this video any credit. Its weak.

Earth_First

(14,910 posts)
23. WHAT RULES AGAINST VIDEO/PHOTOGRAPHY?!
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:30 AM
Jan 2013

What fucking rules are you talking about?!

Just because a cop SAYS there is a rule; does not make it so.

The Supreme Court ruled that Miller is well within his rights. End of story.

This cop is FULL.OF.SHIT.

Cops lie All.The.Time.

 

Comrade_McKenzie

(2,526 posts)
29. From the Miami-Dade County Metrorail website:
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:37 AM
Jan 2013

"Taking still, sound or motion picture recordings for commercial, training or educational purposes (exception of news coverage), without prior written authorization by Miami-Dade Transit."

http://www.miamidade.gov/transit/passenger-safety.asp

Not taking any sides here, but it's DHS guidelines they're following.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
44. More accurately, the security guards had no way of knowing, and assumed the worst.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:22 AM
Jan 2013

Ultimately, the video became educational -- but from reading the account, they started out just taking pictures for fun, personal use. Perfectly acceptable under policy.

The guards' behavior was atrocious; they had several opportunities to make the problem go away using something other than their authority to detain, and they chose to escalate the situation at every turn.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
45. Don't see any references to any video recording or photography for "Personal Use" there.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:22 AM
Jan 2013

So it looks like he WAS following their guidelines, and the metro police were ignoring them.

 

Daniel537

(1,560 posts)
108. Lol, no.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:23 PM
Jan 2013

As the statement clearly states, the only pics not allowed are those for non-personal usage. You can take as many pics as you want for your own use. These thugs in uniform know it, they just don't give a damn. Kudos to Carlos for standing up to their bullshit.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
40. It is not legal to take pictures in the subway in NYC and many mass transit places in the US & world
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:09 AM
Jan 2013

This is part of the changes post 9-11. They are concerned that the pictures may be used in a terrorist plot. That the pictures will give intel about where the vulnerabilities are in the system, where exits are, etc.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
46. Post a link to the NYC law about pictures of the subway being illegal. Because...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:24 AM
Jan 2013

I do not think it is true!

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
47. What about in Miami? The incident took place in Miami
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:26 AM
Jan 2013

Can you post a link to show what law this guy was supposedly violating?

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
113. Wow, that is 7 years old. Here is the real truth and the real link to the MTA rules......
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:52 PM
Jan 2013

No where does it say filming is not permitted in public areas.

I have no idea where you got your idea it was illegal. Have you been to NYC? People take pictures and video all the time of the subway.

It is 100% legal. Has been for years. Please self delete your old link!

Photography, filming or video recording in any facility or conveyance is permitted except that ancillary equipment such as lights, reflectors or tripods may not be used. Members of the press holding valid identification issued by the New York City Police Department are hereby authorized to use necessary ancillary equipment. All photographic activity must be conducted in accordance with the provisions of this Part.
http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
68. Carlos is a former DUer...He's legit
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:05 PM
Jan 2013

and he's had some disturbing run-ins with Miami-Dade PD before...Go find some of his stuff from a few years back...

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
88. RagingInMiami is still a registered member here...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:39 PM
Jan 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=157181

He remains a member in good standing, a dedicated liberal activist.

Tho, as it says on his blog page, the mere mention of his name is an anathema to right-wingers down in Miami. And, apparently, that is also true for some right here on DU.

No wonder his posts are now scarce here; who can really blame him?!
 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
78. The cops forced the confrontation.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:27 PM
Jan 2013

I know Carlos. He is an activist. I can imagine what you'd say about Rosa Parks.

--imm

Response to trumad (Reply #50)

Response to Post removed (Reply #54)

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
73. Ahhh, so you support arresting people who annoy you.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:14 PM
Jan 2013

I find idiots who don't give a damn about civil liberties to be far more annoying, yet I don't believe they should be incarcerated for being an idiot. You should be glad there are more people like me in this country than people like you.

GoneOffShore

(17,339 posts)
82. What law did Carlos break?
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:21 PM
Jan 2013

Can you explain that?

Taking pictures in public of public buildings is not against the law.

And pushing back at trollish security guards who believe that everyone must "Obey my authoritah!" is not being an "attention whore".

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
55. Carlos is an old DUer
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:34 AM
Jan 2013

I am appalled that anyone would attack him here. He has established his creds with me after years of challenging cops who try to deny his right to film their behavior. Those criticizing him have zero credibility. They would have been banned as trolls at the old DU. It wouldn't be Carlos defending his actions, that's for sure.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
60. LOL...Here's another that defends his rights
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:30 AM
Jan 2013

I say more Truthy to Power- (makes for good youtubes )

Heidi

(58,237 posts)
65. Here's some truth: I feel less threatened by open carry folks
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:53 PM
Jan 2013

than I do by concealed carriers of firearms.

However, I wonder why any law enforcement officer or security guard would feel threatened by Carlos Miller and his open-carry camera. Maybe you could explain it to us. Please?

Heidi

(58,237 posts)
71. Public spaces within plain view can be lawfully photographed.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:11 PM
Jan 2013

I'm not sure where you're coming from, but the public record shows that Carlos knows the law and his rights. If Carlos or anyone else lawfully exercising their First Amendment rights is deemed provocative by an LEO, that's LEO's fault, not the photographer's fault.

To photographers, professional or otherwise, who don't know the law and their rights, I recommend:
http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/know-your-rights-photographers

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
85. Carlos knows his rights
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:05 PM
Jan 2013

He has been being harassed by Miami dade cops for years. And rather than just accepting their BS power trips, he calls them on their behavior. he takes photographs when they rough up protestors, he witnesses for us when they violate our rights. And yet you take the side of the ones in the wrong. Why? Why do you agree to comply with unlawful demands? Are we all just compliant complacent little sheep here or free citizens?

I am disgusted by all the "little Eichmanns" around here. Perfect citizens: Know nothing, hear nothing, do nothing. No questions asked.

To compare a person who takes photographs in public places to a guy who open carries a damn semi-auto assault weapon to a mall is absurd. Next you will argue the guy has a right to shoot the man for taking his photograph.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
91. You create a false equivalency
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:54 PM
Jan 2013

by comparing Carlos to "another one" who feels the need to defend his rights. Worse, you drew a false comparison to a nut job.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
96. Blah, they are all youtubers trying to get channel views...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:05 PM
Jan 2013

He's got 257 videos uploaded...LOL

A star!



Heidi

(58,237 posts)
56. For those who don't get why what Carlos Miller is doing is important:
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:55 AM
Jan 2013
From the American Civil Liberties Union:
Taking photographs of things that are plainly visible from public spaces is a constitutional right – and that includes federal buildings, transportation facilities, and police and other government officials carrying out their duties. Unfortunately, there is a widespread, continuing pattern of law enforcement officers ordering people to stop taking photographs from public places, and harassing, detaining and arresting those who fail to comply.
http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/know-your-rights-photographers

Plus, Carlos Miller's website: http://www.photographyisnotacrime.com/

And this resource is recommended by DUer Earth_First: http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf
 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
58. The couple of knuckleheads in this thread who think Carlos deserved this...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:21 AM
Jan 2013

Are simply fucking idiots who just are not to bright.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
70. Not only that, they haven't been on DU long enough to know Carlos
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:08 PM
Jan 2013

I'd suggest some of these doubters do a quick search in the archives and get up-to-speed...

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
59. thanks that is a useful reference
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:22 AM
Jan 2013

I thought it sounded like bullshit, that some are saying it is against the law to take photos. The ACLU rocks, and I trust they are right on this.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
74. THANK YOU!
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:18 PM
Jan 2013

After reading post after post about Carlos Miller inciting his arrest, it is wonderful to have some FACTS posted with links.

Miller's actions were not illegal. Harassment, assault and battery by corporate cops (50 State Security Services Inc is the name of the security firm whose "officers" attacked Mr. Miller - http://50state.com/) is illegal.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
119. It falls under freedom of expression, and freedom of the press.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:30 PM
Jan 2013

Last edited Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:52 PM - Edit history (1)

Is photography not an art form? Is photography not used in journalism? As much as the government would love to be the arbiters of who's officially part of The Press, thus deserving of freedom of the press, and to be able to tell Carlos he's not a Real Journalist, that fact that he takes pictures and videos, then puts them on his blog and broadcasts them on the Internet makes him part of the press, which means he should be getting First Amendment protections.

Lone_Star_Dem

(28,158 posts)
81. Nice to see Carlos is still giving 'em hell.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:11 PM
Jan 2013

I was just thinking about him the other day.

Keep up the good work, Carlos!

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
83. I was given a "talking to" Saturday on the DC metro for taking a pic w/iPhone
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:25 PM
Jan 2013

I've been commuting to VA from MD for over 3 years now and have never seen an empty metro car. I happened to be in the (almost) empty car, so I thought I'd snap a quick pic. Cop comes out of conductors' area and asks me what I'm taking pictures of. I told him the empty train car, showed him the pic and then said, "I've never seen an empty car before."

He then proceeds to tell me that I look suspicious because of the inauguration, did I maybe consider that when I went to take the picture. I told him, no, I'm not a criminal, so I wouldn't consider that. I've read Carlos' blog and other sites (I have the photographer's right PDF) but I never figured I'd have need of that information.

So for those giving Carlos a hard time about what he's doing, think about taking an innocent photograph and then being "talked" to about doing so by an armed person. Or consider that if you state your constitutional rights and are arrested because the cops feel like.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
84. Good to see Carlos still educating the cops and security.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:32 PM
Jan 2013

It is sad to see that it is still necessary.

Given the history with Carlos, one would think that the Metro security would have standing orders to all its members to not engage Carlos in any way, shape, or form since they cannot be bothered to properly train their employees.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
123. Here:
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 03:50 AM
Jan 2013
Account status: Active
Member since: Fri Nov 12, 2004, 01:34 PM
Number of posts: 13,394
Number of posts, last 90 days: 0
Favorite forum: NA
Favorite group: NA
Last post: Fri May 4, 2012, 12:53 PM

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=157181


I think like many he got tired of the BS here and wants to focus on other things.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
127. Thank you.
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 02:01 PM
Jan 2013

I see he posted recently, good to have him back! Well the fighting with the same old people over the same old stuff year after year get boring.

Hutzpa

(11,461 posts)
94. This is what MALFEASANCE looks like
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:02 PM
Jan 2013

the police force in this country has been operating on this level unchallenged for a very long time.

Expressing Laws which has not been passed by the courts, but since they are wearing police uniform you as
a law abiding citizen is suppose to listen to "their" interpretation of the law.

It is outrageous how they've been allowed to get away with this style of policing.

FUCKING OUTRAGEOUS.

We are suppose to be LAND OF THE FREE.



backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
105. DU's own Right Wing Authoritarians.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:07 PM
Jan 2013

For those of you who haven't read Altemeyer ( http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ ), these are the three big traits of right-wing authoritarians:

1. Authoritarian Submission: DU's authoritarians are butthurt because RagingInMiami isn't bowing down and licking boots when confronted by Miami's finest...
2. Authoritarian Aggression: DU's authoritarians are not only cheerleading the bit of police brutality in the video, but they're shit-stirring and accusing RagingInMiami of "fraud" and "childishness" and "attention-seeking" and "a setup" for daring to challenge the police for their behavior against him for what... Taking pictures...
3. Conventionalism: Keeps insisting that RagingInMiami was violating rules of some sort, even though they can't articulate exactly what rules have been broken.

Response to RandiFan1290 (Original post)

RagingInMiami

(13,395 posts)
129. Hey guys,
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:23 PM
Jan 2013

Interesting conversation here which seems to mirror the conversations on other sites.

Despite the evidence in the video, many people will side with the security guards because I did not abide by their unlawful orders to stop video recording.

I understand many people don't have it in them to stand up for their rights but it's sad when those same people criticize those that do.

Here is my update.

http://www.photographyisnotacrime.com/2013/01/25/metrorail-attack-reveals-much-work-to-be-done-for-photographers-rights/

RandiFan1290

(6,229 posts)
131. Rage on Carlos!
Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:47 AM
Jan 2013

Thanks for the update. I found this video on Liveleak and was surprised it wasn't on DU.
You're pissing off all the right people so you know you are doing it right!

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