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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsKathleen Parker thinks women are at a disadvantage in ground combat
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/parker-military-is-putting-women-at-unique-risk/2013/01/25/33d9eca6-6723-11e2-9e1b-07db1d2ccd5b_story.htmlMore on this, but first lets be clear. Arguments against women in direct combat have nothing to do with courage, skill, patriotism or dedication. Most women are equal to most men in all these categories and are superior to men in many other areas, as our educational graduation rates at every level indicate. Women also tend to excel as sharpshooters and pilots.
But ground combat is one area in which women, through quirks of biology and human nature, are not equal to men a difference that should be celebrated rather than rationalized as incorrect.
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Were potentially talking about 18-year-old girls, notwithstanding their adult designation under the law. (Parents know better.) At least 18-year-old males have the advantage of being gassed up on testosterone, the hormone that fuels not just sexual libido but, more to the point, aggression. To those suffering a sudden onset of the vapors, ignore hormones at your peril.
SWTORFanatic
(385 posts)MadrasT
(7,237 posts)Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)on any particular group of people, it's so fucking patronizing.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)I am not begging for a flame fest. I figure if women in the military collectively want to be in ground combat, it should happen.
However, to say they have no physical disadvantage seems totally out of touch. If we are simply talking aiming and firing a weapon, no problem. I don't want anyone shooting at me, and I have no doubt that women would be at least as good at taking out enemies. Ditto tactical. But, hand to hand?
Maybe I'm missing the point.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)then there is no reason not to let her into combat. Likely not very many women will, without some serious physical training--but there are female bodybuilders, boxers and weightlifters. There are larger women who can outperform smaller men, physically.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)People who meet the standards should be allowed to serve in the job, regardless of gender.
pscot
(21,024 posts)will the women in a ground combat unit die first. It's a question that can only be answered after the fact, but we all have our own opinion.
Riftaxe
(2,693 posts)into combat positions?
As I understand it now, they are only being given an option that men will not receive.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)I don't have a problem with it.
Nikia
(11,411 posts)My little brother flunked out of the Air Force's air traffic control program and received a discharge as a result. Wanting to still be involved in serving (and receiving military opportunities), he joined the National Guard and was given a transportation occupation which is what he wanted. He served in Afganistan driving large trucks. My cousin served in the Army in a health care field and eventually became a nurse in civilian life. A friend was in military police, a field that he chose.
Is it true that there are men who sign up with the military and are told that they will be training for a non combat position and are assigned to a combat occupation with no option for a discharge? If those men were below average in physical abilities would they be assigned to those occupations or given a discharge?
wercal
(1,370 posts)1. Prior to jumping out of an airplane, a 'Jumpmaster' inspects your parachute and other equipment...to include the routing of the harness under the crotch. The Jumpmaster literally runs his hands along them. Guess what? Once when I had a female jumpmaster, no such inspection happened. She could not 'meet all the standards'. Not because of strength; but, because of social norms - there's over a hundred guys entering the plane; and, she didn't want to touch them all.
2. Airborne School: It takes strength to steer the particular parachute we used (T10C). Therefore, if you were to visit Fort Benning' Airborne School, you would see pull up bars outside the mess halls...10 pull ups being the price of admission to eat. But, you will also see bars around 3 feet off of the ground. The women were allowed to lay on their backs, and essentially do an arm assisted sit-up. I never understood why, if the inability to steer was so extroadinarily dangerous for you and others, it wasn't equally important to both genders. But, clearly, the women could not meet that physical standard.
These examples are from over 20 years ago. To me, it proves that given enough political pressure, the military will allow standards to slip and/or be changed. And quite frankly nobody can explain it away - I witnessed with my own two eyes the military's inability to maintain its standards, when under pressure to open up positions to both genders.
Men and women are different. This is why the Olympics have mens and womens events. Its just a fact of life.
Now, the vast majority of positions in the military are open to both genders, to include many combat (aviation especially) roles. But some really aren't in the cards.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)One female jumpmaster's inability to do her job correctly because she didn't want to touch men's junk does not speak for other females' abilities in the same role. Same as some men's incompetence in a particular job does not mean all men are similiarly incompetent.
Second point--I only support females serving in these roles if standards are not lowered. Whatever the military may or may not do in that regard is up to the military.
Nikia
(11,411 posts)will be the ones choosing combat occupations. This probably won't be a field with a high percentage of women, but a person who is capable of the work shouldn't be excluded just because she is a woman.
Riftaxe
(2,693 posts)once their foot hits the ground off the bus, they will have an option is rather unique
Nikia
(11,411 posts)Before reaching the point of no return.
I take it though that switching someone into a combat occupation isn't that unusual. Still, I wouldn't think that they would assign someone (male or female) that was marginal physically or emotionally but I could be wrong.
Incidentally, my coworker's daughter is a high school senior and is going into the Army for military police. She actually wants to have a combat position. Her mother, my coworker, isn't happy that she now has that option.
actslikeacarrot
(464 posts)...are not understanding what this could do for the infantry. It gives the infantry a wider pool to draw from, so some of the men that BARELY pass the standards could potentially be replaced with women that exceed the standards. Every unit I have ever been in has had it's share of dudes that should just not be there, but put out just enough effort to avoid getting admin sepped.
Lex
(34,108 posts)Not always an advantage, actually.