General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumswhy are you not in a labor union...?
In light of recent news on the decline of labor unions in the U.S., particularly private sector unions that currently organize less than 7% of the U.S. workforce, I'm wondering why the other 93% of the private work force has walked away from collective bargaining and union representation. The data on labor's contribution to middle class prosperity is unequivocal-- not only do union workers do better than their non-union counterparts by just about every measure of work related prosperity, but their communities benefit as well. The disparity between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of us is at historic levels of inequality at precisely the time that union membership is at historic lows.
Why aren't you a union member, and why aren't you trying to become one? This is a poll, obviously, but I'm really hoping for more detailed responses in replies. The poll selections are not necessarily exclusive, of course-- more than one might be true for you-- but if you'd indicate the most appropriate answer for your individual circumstances I'd greatly appreciate it. And do please elaborate further if you can.
I'm torn about whether to include "I want to join a union, but I live in a right-to-work state" because right-to-work laws don't necessarily preclude labor organizing, they just make it harder. What are your thoughts about this?
Edit: I changed "I like to vote" to "I'm retired or self employed and have no need for union representation."
42 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited | |
I don't want to join a labor union or bargain collectively regarding my terms and conditions of work. | |
3 (7%) |
|
I don't want unions in my workplace/industry/etc. | |
6 (14%) |
|
I don't want to pay union dues in exchange for representation in my workplace. | |
0 (0%) |
|
There are no unions organizing my industry or profession (in which case, why aren't you helping to rectify that?). | |
12 (29%) |
|
I want to join a labor union, but I'm afraid of retaliation from my employer. | |
0 (0%) |
|
I want to organize my workplace, but I'm afraid of retaliation from my employer. | |
1 (2%) |
|
I live in a right-to-work state and fear employer retaliation if I join a union. | |
5 (12%) |
|
I belong to a private sector labor union. Solidarity! | |
6 (14%) |
|
I belong to a public sector labor union. Solidarity! | |
3 (7%) |
|
on edit: I'm retired or self employed and have no need for union representation. | |
6 (14%) |
|
1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)They've tried in the past but couldn't get enough support, including one effort that I was involved in.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Otherwise I think they are a great idea.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)No suitable union exists. The work is challenging and competitive, and I'm up to the challenge.
I haven't had any trouble finding suitable work in about 20 years.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)challenge'?
that seems to be what you're saying.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Labor unions are most appropriate for people who share a common skill set, particularly where large employers hire them by contract in large numbers.
There is relatively little competition among people who have proven experience in the set of things that I do.
Add to that a rapidly changing industry where one has to constantly develop or reinvent themselves to be relevant. Making it tough to represent a group.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)I too am a high earning professional in a high demand profession. I have never been out of a job. Getting my degree was difficult, I was often studying and doing lab/computer program design assignments when college kids in my dorms and apartment complexes were out partying. My field does not have Unions, but I support Unions 100%.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)bluestate10
(10,942 posts)excellent fiscal condition today. I don't apologize that any one. But my own status has nothing to do with my support of Unions. Unions gave me the foothold that I used to get what I have, I support Unions 100%. I purchased Union made, USA made products for my body, car and home. If you or anyone else don't like what I stand for, too bad.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)"
Wont a union stifle individual achievement with things like raises and promotions determined solely by seniority?
Salaries and promotions are subjects for collective bargaining. Without a union, management is able to make such decisions unilaterally. Through collective bargaining, management and the union must agree on the mechanisms to be used and standards to be employed, an agreement that is included in a legally binding contract. There are no preconditions. Professionals, through their elected union representatives, may bargain for any viable system they believe best suits their profession and employment. For example, some union contracts provide not only for annual cost of living increases but a pool of dollars for merit increases. The combination assures both recognition of individual achievement and a minimum of equity. Seniority need not be the only criterion for promotion. A formal procedure could be devised which would include ratings by both supervisors and peers, credit for advanced education and training programs, and anything else that is deemed relevant by the professionals. A formal promotion and layoff procedure with rules known by all is preferable to no rules at all. Such a system can only be devised and implemented by a union and its members. "
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I'm definitely not management, but I am the only person here who does what I do. That gives me a lot of leverage.
Salaries and promotions are subjects for collective bargaining. Without a union, management is able to make such decisions unilaterally.
If my employer doesn't treat me as I feel I should be treated, I'll just leave and go work somewhere else.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I'll leave the link for others though, so we aren't left with the impression that IT workers don't need a union.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...for more than 30 years to achieve my professional station.
I'll leave the link for others though, so we aren't left with the impression that IT workers don't need a union.
I think there is plenty of justification for unions in some IT functions. But not for mine.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I'm glad your plans worked out. Not everyone has that happen.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)My degree, from 1980, is in psychology. My plan at the time was to become a clinical psychologist. Now I'm a software and database developer.
My plans have always been flexible.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Not sure where we disagree?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I don't believe that is necessary.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I thought you were taking exception to something I said. Just trying to clarify, but if not, then good.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)for you isn't. That's called luck.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...worked my way into systems administration, then database administration. Now I am a systems developer focused on databases.
I've worked in educational technology, financial services, consulting, and now medical IT. Please don't assume that I work in one particular subset of anything.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)On the one hand you present yourself as this ultra successful IT person without a worry in the world. As soon as I mention it, you go off talking about how many times you have been laid-off and that I shouldnt assume you havent struggled or had to shift career subfields.
What point are you arguing?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Does that help?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I've heard lots of odd "I dont need a union" arguments so I am not all that surprised really.
Employees are people and are not disposable, certainly not so that shareholders and board members can make a few more percentage points. If a company is failing, that's one thing, if they overhired, then the owners and shareholders should take it out of profit.
The idea that it is acceptable to lay people off to make a better profit is a new development in the last 40-50 years, and it just makes me shake my head to hear anyone justify it like you have.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)You get unemployement benefits and some time off.
Employees are people and are not disposable...
Getting laid off isn't always the result of an employee being undervalued, Steven.
Sometimes entire companies fail, and everyone gets laid off.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)If you are in IT, you are overhead and they just axe a certain percentage and randomly choose them.
If I want to switch careers, I get myself training and I do it. And I have done that several times. It doesnt mean I want to be laid off and I certainly object to my being laid off along with several dozen or hundred other folks so that a few 1%'ers get a few extra hundred thousand dollars each year.
If you like being treated that way, that's your business. Most people dont appreciate it.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)One not worth staying in, if you have a choice.
Besides being laid off four times in the last 32 years, I have resigned from two "permanent, full time" jobs.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Once a company decides that the shareholders or partners arent making enough money, often the next step is to let perfectly good folks go to increase profits.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)The owners of the company that laid me off last February have more money than brains. I was already planning to quit when they let me go (to replace me with a much less experienced person who almost lost all their data recently.)
I had another job less than four weeks later - A much better one.
Left2Tackle
(64 posts)Being fired or laid off was a blessing for the person. They ended up getting a better job in a culture that was a good fit for them. Ended up being happier than they were before. Guess they just needed a kick in the pants.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...quitting my job to go to another. It was early in my career, in the deep recession of the early 1990s.
I wasn't happy in the last job I got laid off from a year ago, but the pay was so good that it was worth putting up with their crap for a few years.
Guess they just needed a kick in the pants.
I know I've needed one on occasion, but it was in 1996 that I discovered how much better things can get when you walk out under your own power and on your own terms.
Welcome to DU, Left2Tackle!
Left2Tackle
(64 posts)I just get sick of a place, or things get boring and I need to move on. You're right, it's better on your own terms.
Thanks, I've been a lurker off and on for a while now. Decided it was time to jump in the fray.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Many of my peers entered the tech job market at the beginning of the bubble when we all got out of college. I didn't go that route, but saw the horrible things many went through in Silicon Valley.
I think CWA organizes IT workers.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)But staying with a problem until 3am in college or work and getting up at 6am to start over again isn't luck, it's damned hard, grueling work.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)That didn't stop mass layoffs and over-reliance on the remaining staff. Of course it is hard work, but not everyone is in the circumstances where being special protected their job.
I had tons of friends laugh in my face about unions, claiming that their skill-set was so rare, they'd never be in want of a job. Nowadays they're a lot more receptive to ideas about collective bargaining after seeing that they were easily replaced after all.
antigop
(12,778 posts)WinniSkipper
(363 posts)that tech companies could/would EVER have Unions? Remember - the Valley can be a pretty liberal place. Why don't you think Unions permeate the Valley?
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)The IT workers for IBM orgainized. The service people for SV have been unionizing (the non-tech people who work in the buildings).
Why aren't there more unions in IT companies? I think it's a combination of things--an early phase of internet work where it seemed like the gold rush, a frontier where everything was new and the system would be different.
Two, the transient nature of tech contracts and the IT start-ups themselves made the sustained social cohesion necessary for "union consciousness" difficult.
Three, many tech people seem to be kind of libertarian by nature (in my observation) and just don't like the idea of unions in general. There is a perception that you don't get rewarded for your unique contributions, it's less "professional", etc.
A good book on this is "Behind The Silicon Curtain". The author also blames unions for not aggressively going after tech companies, because they tended to be focused on "industrials" in that era of the '70s and '80s when tech work was getting more prevalent. There's some truth in that too. It probably didn't help that Reagan was pounding unions from on high at the time too though.
WinniSkipper
(363 posts)I don't think employers or employees want them, or that unions by nature fit into the rapidly changing environment. Or the work-to-death nature of the Valley.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)aggressively go after the IT marketplace.
You may be in a subset of IT that provides better job security, but most folks I know who have been at it a while have been laid off at least twice, me included.
It's a field that is begging for Union help really. Its the first folks that management typically thinks of when its time to lay people off.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Or is it five? It's hard to keep track after so many changes. I've had to adapt to new technologies and learn new skills all along the way. I'm about to turn 55 and there's no sign of that ever changing.
My stepfather retired from the Navy in 1956. He got a job as an electronic systems engineer at a major aerospace company immediately, and stayed at the same job until he retired in 1987. He was never a member of a union. Machinists, welders, draftsmen, and generally most production line people were, but not white collar engineers or managers.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...bother me.
I'm not arguing anything. If you insist that I must have a point in the discussion, it's that being flexible and adaptable in one's career path is one way to get through life.
mike_c
(36,269 posts)...i.e. white collar professional-- I'm a biologist and university prof-- but we too have several unions to choose from, including the American Association of University Professors (AAUP), Academic Professionals of California (APC), and my own union, the California Faculty Assn (CFA). Having been involved with professional work matters from a labor perspective for several years now, I can say without any doubt that my terms and conditions of work are FAR better than they would be if not for collective bargaining.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)to get you all to unionize in the mid-nineties said. You are foolish and/or selfish.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I'm 100% pro-union.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I don't see what constructive purpose is served by you insulting me.
So tell me, Egalitarian Thug, where were you? I might have listened if you had been in the right place at the right time with the right message.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)more than half of an entire generation of IT professionals in the 90s creating and appeasing the billionaires. And every one of those workers was providing for a family, paying a lot of tax dollars, churning the economy, and raising the standard of living across the board. Kids saw their parent's lives wiped out overnight, and now we are wondering why too few are interested in pursuing post-secondary education in technical fields? Why should they when the social contract has never existed in their experience?
They used the excuse of a temporary worker shortage and rising wages to open the floodgates of low-wage foreign workers and turned a blind eye to blatant criminality on the part of the industry. You might remember the lawsuits regarding M$, Oracle, and other's abuse of temporary workers that did the work for them, for over a decade in some cases, but were forever "temporary". Robert Reich's DOL simply refused to enforce existing (already inadequate) law until forced by the courts and even then the corporations were never forced to hire them, they simply made a work-around and continued on.
Anyway, there were a few of us (I was based in LA, but worked all over the country) that tried to bring our fellow IT pros over to the idea of organizing in order to prevent exactly what was starting and eventually happened. And almost without exception we were met with the arguments you wrote. I'm making a good salary, my company is taking good care of me, why should I pay to get what I've already got, I'm so good that that will never happen to me, etc. And most important of all, IMO, the very nature of the industry is that we are all always working ourselves out of a job. Once the system is developed most of the staff becomes redundant.
By 1999 there were 150,000+ H-1(b) workers coming in and demolishing wages in every area of the field. You know the names, Infosys, Wipro, Tata, etc. The positions I had then, today pay about a third of what I made and the skill level has fallen through the floor. "That's good enough" should be motto of American tech today.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Effectively self employed as had been for past twenty odd years
KansDem
(28,498 posts)I'm amused at how credit card statements for example have important terms and conditions printed on the back of the statement in an uncomfortably small font and in colors of light brown or light grey. I think, "Who can read this?"
It seems there should be some basic requirements that would enable an easier reading of such terms and conditions, but I suppose that would be putting the banks at a disadvantage.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)KansDem
(28,498 posts)One of the best concerts I ever attended was in San Diego (at the Roxy Theater in Pacific Beach, a community in the SD area) in 1978:
First half: Leon Redbone
Second half: Tom Waits.
I bought Waits' Nighthawks at the Diner* about that time and liked every track. I found his "Putnam County" especially intriguing with its description of small-town rural life.
When I came to N.E. Kansas in 1979 to attend graduate school, I experienced "Putnam County" first-hand and it was then I realized the profundity of Waits' lyrics.
I still occasionally listen to that album when I'm alone and in a reflective mood.
________
*[font size="1"]"Warm Beer Cold Women" became my personal anthem.
lpbk2713
(42,736 posts)mike_c
(36,269 posts)...but if the stats are right, something like 97% of private sector Americans are not organized. I'm an officer in my union and we're preparing for a recruitment drive, so I'm interested in hearing from those 97% that we're (we in the big labor sense) are seeking to bring back into the labor fold.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Show us how it's done!
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Staff positions like that are generally harder to unionize. We do have a guild, though.
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)I was in IT during my career. I think I would have welcomed a union if we had the choice; maybe they could have prevented our CEO from lowering salaries, freezing pensions and cancelling our retiree health benefits.
mike_c
(36,269 posts)I edited the self-employed choice.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)And once again I'll say, thank you GI Bill!
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)but when I was working as a legal secretary/paralegal, I don't think there was a union that represented us. My husband is a retired marine engineer and gets a pension and supplemental medical insurance (now, since we're on Medicare) from the MEBA.
MissMarple
(9,656 posts)GoCubsGo
(32,074 posts)Had we been able to unionize, I might still be in my old job, rather than having my life and my career turn to utter shit. But, the people I used to work with don't give a shit about unions and workers' rights. Most of them are just fucking clueless. A lot of them were educated in the South, where unions have been demonized for decades. They wouldn't know Mother Jones if she came up and punched them in the face, let alone having ever heard of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire or the Haymarket riots.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)I like the flexibility of being able to take my career wherever I want it to go....not according to the set rules of a union. I've had 3 promotions in the past 18 months at my current company, which have included more than 3x more in raises than most people here have received. I've been promoted above people who have been here much longer than me and am currently trying to create a brand new position to get another promotion within the next 3 months. I have a feeling a union would have hindered some of that movement and compensation?
Bennyboy
(10,440 posts)everyone I was in the union with is reteireing. Everyone without will never retire.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... join a union at.
2naSalit
(86,323 posts)and there's not a category on the poll for that. And being over 50 is much if the reason for me. I have a long list of skills and education but that doesn't seem to be a good thing in the workforce these days.
99Forever
(14,524 posts).. if you are over 50 and looking for work, you might as well be invisible.
shanti
(21,675 posts)solidarity!
Deep13
(39,154 posts)OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)Not all jobs in even a unionized workplace are represented by unions.
yellerpup
(12,252 posts)but I am a member of the Dramatists Guild which does have rules that protect playwrights.
amerikat
(4,909 posts)International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees.
mshasta
(2,108 posts)in the marketing field as a wine and spirits sales rep I am constantly struggling with contract only jobs.......I wish they will be union...however the pay is good but..no health care, no 401k, no social security-no sick days, no holidays, nobody gives a shit .
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)but my comrades are scared shitless even though the work we do makes billions. No worries though, soon it will all be outsourced forever and we'll all be living on the street.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Early in my career, I belonged to a union and felt it was holding me back. I got a different, non-union job and have never regretted the decision.
Flashmann
(2,140 posts)International Brotherhood of Painters and Allied Trades.....
mokawanis
(4,435 posts)Public employee union member for 32 years and still belong. Served as an officer several times and one term as president of my local. Still as committed today as ever, even though Governor Asshole Walker stripped away our collective bargaining rights.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)supervision by higher ups (other than the authority of the veterinary board).
Even veterinarians who work for VCA, that evil cancerous corporation, aren't union. Nor are the veterinarians who work for the USDA. THOSE folks are management and supervise the packing plant inspectors, who are union.
The Philosopher
(895 posts)1) To protect yourself
2) To protect others
There's a reason why unions have been heavily associated with the Democratic party and that's because of #2. We're a party that fights on behalf of and protects those who have little power on their side of the fight: the poor, the different, the hated, the ones who lack connections, etc.
I'm a strong union supporter, even if I can never have access to one. My father was a union member and a strong one at that. He benefited from being a member. But even more so, because he believed so much in his union, others benefited from him being a member.
ismnotwasm
(41,965 posts)Bu the reasons I hear about are the price of dues fees. To me, it's automatically withdrawn I never miss it and its well worth it. Occasionally I've run into people who miss the cut off for withdrawing and pay dues anyway. It's an open shop, but you have to notify in writing upon hire, and have one opportunity a year to withdraw. This has occasionally caused difficulties.
Mostly people are interested when we go into negotiations--- like this year--whether they are a member or not. I try to explain unions are the reason we GET to negotiate.
It's an uphill battle sometimes.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)I am Pipefitters Local 13 social member...
derby378
(30,252 posts)Thurber in Erath County - a coal-mining powerhouse a century ago, now a ghost town that still boasts an impressive smokestack you can see from Interstate 20. A company town turned closed shop, and we beat the rest of the nation to it.
And now Texas is a right-to-work state. Dagnabbit.
Response to mike_c (Original post)
Heddi This message was self-deleted by its author.
mike_c
(36,269 posts)More-or-less. Although my situation is somewhat different because my union has always been pretty good for it's members (and my dues are LESS than $100/mo). But I found myself angry at the outcome of a membership vote that I felt didn't really represent the interests of colleagues in my department and college, and wrote a letter to the regional rep describing my disgust. Next thing I knew *I* was the department representative, and she had me attending executive board meetings regularly. Then I missed a meeting, and they made me an officer and elected me to the board, LOL.
ismnotwasm
(41,965 posts)I'm with WSNA which is a strong nurses association. Nurses have very powerful voices, SEIU had no business inferring that, because they know this.
I'd file a grievance about the breaks. Someone did just that in my hospital and won. Read your contract and make sure protective language for filing is in there. I keep a copy our contract in my mail folder as well as 'unfair assignment' forms. They're there for anybody who wants them.
Sorry your experience has been so crappy!
Heddi
(18,312 posts)because upon reflection, i don't trust my company to not find this and hold it against me. I'm pretty paranoid, even though my user name has no resemblance to my real name.
I will reiterate that I am unhappy with our union leadership in my company. I have been happy with other unions I have been a part of, and even happy with this union when I worked in a different department in the same company. The union itself seems to do a better job at other hospitals, and I am envious of the workers at those hospitals who get better employee safeguards than i do.
WilmywoodNCparalegal
(2,654 posts)I work in a salaried, corporate HR position, however. My position - I am the only one in my role in a company of over 70,000 people - is so narrow and so specific that there are very few like me around the U.S., thus affording me the ability to 'name my own price' so to speak. I worked very hard to be where I am today and my pay has gone up based on my performance and contributions, not my seniority.
This does not mean I'm not supportive of unions or the benefits they provide to workers who willingly choose to be represented.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)Also, I'm not aware of an office temps union. I wish to heck there were one.
hay rick
(7,587 posts)I was a union officer for most of my career.
The decline in union membership coincides with the decline of median incomes. Coincidence? I think not. We need a better alternative than the DLC/Third Way version of the Democratic Party.
mike_c
(36,269 posts)...to get into unions and to organize workplaces that aren't currently union. Not only do most benefit directly, but their communities benefit, the floor is raised for their entire industry or profession, and the ripple effect creates a strong and vibrant middle class. Americans are willingly walking away from that. I don't get it.
appleannie1
(5,062 posts)LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)and I used to belong to the Newspaper Guild. But newspapers are laying off people by the dozens, not hiring. Especially not people over 60.
Lesmoderesstupides
(156 posts)Coyote_Tan
(194 posts)michreject
(4,378 posts)GM Tech Center, Warren, MI.
DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)GREAT local.
Region 9 Local 153. Made blazers and S10's in Edison in the 80's. And I owned Blazers till they stopped making them in '04.
Three years till retirement.
The Union is a shell of it's former self. And it is sad.
mike_c
(36,269 posts)I've got five or six more years. But with CALPERS behind my pension, I'm about as confident as any American not sitting in Congress can be that my pension will be there when I'm ready. Why don't more Americans DEMAND that?
whistler162
(11,155 posts)they are all against me!
mike_c
(36,269 posts)My union has significantly improved my work conditions, and maintained good salary and benefits against MASSIVE take-back attempts during the recent recession. I have a secure pension, with excellent benefits, including continuation of my health insurance and a fantastic early retirement program.
Why don't more Americans DEMAND similar work conditions?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)My perspective as someone who lives in a region where union membership is rare is that the only way to get in a union is to be related to someone already in the union.
I certainly support the idea of unions but frankly it seems to me to be another layer of politics, if you're good at retail politics you'll do well in the union and probably do pretty well without the union. If you're not good at office politics there really isn't much help for you anyway.
A family member of mine is in a theatrical union, loves the pay and benefits but hates the political jockeying for position to get the plum jobs and keep working consistently. Unfortunately that type of work is almost always done on a tight schedule and usually involves 12 or even more hours per day of fairly physical work, difficult for someone approaching sixty even if they are very good at their job.
These days he's mostly self employed, even though he makes only a fraction of the hourly union rate he works a lot more often, has a lot more control over his hours and feels much less stressed overall.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)I do sales for a large data storage company. been doing this for several years. Salary + healthy commish. But for many years i was in labor force, and we had a direct competitor that was a union shop. Over they years, we had a few guys leave us and go over to the other side, join the union. The biggest complaint was they were forced to pay union dues, plus had to contribute to an annuity they wanted nothing to do with, had no choice. You were not allowed to open your own 401k, you had to contribute to the retirement fund, which "no surprise" was under the union leaders control. Sorry, but F that.
they literally took home less than %50 of their pay.
Throd
(7,208 posts)rainbow4321
(9,974 posts)So while I *could* join the union and pay the dues, etc...they still wouldn't be able to give me the full protection that they give the workers who work directly for the facility.
Plus...to be honest, I am not that impressed with their union. Staffing sucks, job descriptions are blurred, people waaaaayyyy overuse the growled response of "I'm goooiinnnggg toooo the UNION" when they are in danger of being outed for not doing their minimal requirements of their job description.
They are allowed to just NOT show up for work up to 2 hours after their start time and they get away with it. They can wait that full 2 hours to finally decide to call in SICK for their entire shift. They can show up at work, look at their assignment and walk right back out the door, no questions asked...and THAT does wonders for patient care, let me tell ya.
Biggest thing that gets me is the staffing issue. I hear over and over how unions help other states' health care facilities with poor staffing...yet the one at our place....nothing. At all.
The only time you see them intervene is when someone, like I said, is not performing at their job and the union is called in by them to help them keep their job...no matter how badly they are performing.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)For a while I drove a big rig. The union guys made MEGA bucks compared to everyone else, and had the best jobs. Unfortunately, you don't just get to join the union. You have to know the right people, and I did not. It was basically like a special club for the cool kids. If you knew someone or were related you got in, if not no such luck.
It would be really cool to have a real union that allowed people to join and fought for everyone, but I think that's kinda a thing of the past now.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)and we aren't required to join or pay dues and I'm public sector. So it is rendered impotent by all standards. I do not live in a right to work state.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)When I worked landscaping we were treated fairly and paid well - I don't know if there is a landscaping union.
I have worked in kitchens and retail also. There wasn't any union there either.
edit to add - I'm not anti-union, I just never thought about it.
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)there are no labor unions for that. We do however have a Staff Association that functions in some respects like a union and I am a dues paying member.
Not Me
(3,398 posts)and have union employees. We have very few issues.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Like a lot of IT folks in Telecom, I get stuck with the "management" label even though I manage no employees and am on the "tech" career track.
Wish I could join.
tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)Even though we strongly support them.
MAD Dave
(204 posts)But waiting at patiently to hear about a great unionized public service job. I am excited about being active within the union.
Never had the privilege of working in a unionized environment and I look forward to it.
Solidarity!
mike_c
(36,269 posts)Hope you get the new job and it turns out well!
loose wheel
(112 posts)I asked him for a raise about a month ago. He told me,"Get your ass back to work." That was the end of the conversation. I work in a field that works with some union shops, so I looked around to see if there was a Union that would represent me with my boss. Then I remembered who my boss was and decided not to do that.
I have worked in corporate America for going on twenty years, sometimes in union shops and sometimes not. Sometimes the non-union employers were better than the union employers. Still, things happen from time to time. I was laid off in 2009 shortly after President Obama was elected, the entire plant went out of business. I spent six months watching the intense economic destruction going on around me and decided to get some new training. My family was almost forced out of our house by the end of the year. Only the President's mortage plan let us keep it.
Then my current boss called me. It was a small shop, just me and my boss when we got started. Now we've got two teams and we're starting to look at a third. When I want to see my boss, I have to go find a mirror. It's a challenge every single day, but I'm happier doing what I'm doing now than I have been in years working for somebody else.
blockhead
(1,081 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Part-Time Local Gov Employee. You need full-time to be a union member receiving pension. All I have is this crappy 401k.
w8liftinglady
(23,278 posts)http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/affiliates/entry/texas
http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Organizing-Bargaining/Victory-for-Texas-Nurses-More-Than-1-500-RNs-Win-First-Contracts
When Union organizing reaches DFW (I'm not holding my breath), I'll be there.
mike_c
(36,269 posts)It's hard for me to relate to labor conditions in states like Texas. Here in California, nurses unions have clout. At my workplace-- a Cal State University-- I sit at the table with vice presidents and other top administrators as a representative of my faculty union. The relationship isn't always 100% collegial, but mostly it is, and we have that place at the table when we need it. They don't always do what we ask, but they generally listen when we ask. That's the power of a strong contract and an organized work force.
rjj621
(103 posts)and I would need to do some serious research into any union prior to supporting or joining. They aren't necessarily any better or less unethical than the company people work for.
mike_c
(36,269 posts)First, as a telcom worker in the Communications Workers of America, and for most of my academic career as a member of the California Faculty Assn. My union held the line during the last several years of budget cuts in California-- we made a few structural concessions in our last contract negotiation, but utterly prevailed against the take-backs management tried to impose under the guise that "no crisis should go unexploited."
And then there's this: I'm retiring in five or six years at 63 or 64, with an excellent lifetime pension that my partner will get to keep for her lifetime as well, full health benefits, etc. One of the last great defined benefit pension plans in America that LOTS of retiring California public employees enjoy. I started this thread a bit naive I suspect, because I cannot for the life of me understand why ALL American workers do not demand the same deal I have. And I have these benefits because my union has my back, and makes the largest university in the WORLD bargain in good faith. That's the power of collective bargaining. I cannot imagine why anyone would turn their back on that.