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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsModesty in Ultra-Orthodox Brooklyn Is Enforced by Secret Squads
The Brooklyn shopkeeper was already home for the night when her phone rang: a man who said he was from a neighborhood modesty committee was concerned that the mannequins in her stores window, used to display womens clothing, might inadvertently arouse passing men and boys.
The man said, Do the neighborhood a favor and take it out of the window, the stores manager recalled. Were trying to safeguard our community.
In many neighborhoods, a store owner might shrug off such a call. But on Lee Avenue, the commercial spine of Hasidic Williamsburg, the warning carried an implied threat comply with community standards or be shunned. It is a potent threat in a neighborhood where shadowy, sometimes self-appointed modesty squads use social and economic leverage to enforce conformity.
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The rules are spoken and unspoken, enforced by social pressure but also, in ways that some find increasingly disturbing, by the modesty committees. Their power is evident in the fact that of the half dozen womens clothing stores along Lee Avenue, only one features mannequins, and those are relatively shapeless, fully clothed torsos.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/nyregion/shadowy-squads-enforce-modesty-in-hasidic-brooklyn.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)RedstDem
(1,239 posts)mostly, the fact that a wing nut like Michele Bachman is onto something with the whole sharia in America crap..
I volunteer to use my baseball bat on any modesty squad......
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)get the red out
(13,462 posts)If you're unlucky enough to be born into the wrong one, you have an ice cube's chance in hell of having the same guaranteed rights as mainstream folks. And chances are damn good no one will ever help you either, citing "freedom of religion".
Land of the Free, home of the Brave....NOT!
cali
(114,904 posts)Vermont is the least religious state in the country by a long shot.
get the red out
(13,462 posts)I'm not against religion and belief. But I do have a problem with extreme religions, the closed in ones, denying the rights of the citizens born into them. It makes me think of this country as very weak.
Mopar151
(9,982 posts)A sunset from the top of Burke Mt. works for me.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)It is what society's have always done and we do it ALL the time even when unaware of it.
How about expecting your neighbor to mow his lawn or pick up his garbage?
How about expecting people to stand for the national anthem at a ball game?
How about asking people to wear shoes in a store or a tie in a restaurant?
How about asking men to shave? Or to wear deodorant?
Or expecting women to shave their armpits or cover their breasts when breastfeeding?
All are examples of the same phenomenon. The exact same thing.
The only difference is that when people that wear clothes that are strange to us do it, it is easy to point a finger --not saying YOU are doing that btw, Cali.
We aren't talking about a store requiring shoes. This is about people being intimidated by groups of people who are forcing their religious beliefs on others.
Your examples make little sense, Bonobo, in relation to the content of the article.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)To you.
Dash87
(3,220 posts)The story, on the other hand, is the usual "OMG bewbz!" misogyny that we like to pretend doesn't happen here.
Dash87
(3,220 posts)This is no different than other backwards cultures that say it's up to women not to arouse men. These religious wackos are offended over a gigantic piece of plastic wearing clothes.
Also, why should women have to cover up when breast feeding? Will the sight of a breast turn people to stone?
meow2u3
(24,761 posts)...instead of blaming women for "arousing" them because they show a freakin' ANKLE? That would be a start.
niyad
(113,278 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:32 PM - Edit history (1)
(saw it on DU yesterday, I believe. will see if I can find it)
cali
(114,904 posts)niyad
(113,278 posts)obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)And also the neighborhood that keeps trying to bar the NYC Marathon from running through it, because of the sinful women participating in the marathon.
It's rabbi. But rabbit is good too.
niyad
(113,278 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)The rabbi modesty guys are enforcing what they believe to be right. I don't agree with it, but then, I'm not a Hasidic Jew. Business owners are just trying to display their merchandise to the best advantage and draw people in. Nothing wrong with that.
This is a pretty tight knit area of Brooklyn. I would imagine most of the business owners are of the same faith. To any business owner that aren't of this faith, I would say - know your customer. This isn't an area where you are going to sell bikinis. A Barney's or Macy's shop window won't work here. If there aren't any mannequins in other shop windows, there might be a reason for that. Sounds unfair, but if you want to succeed...
People have the right to freedom of religion, and people have the right to make money. I don't think there are any easy answers.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)In fact it is Rachel Maddow's home stomping ground.
A few years ago, a store that sells sex toys tried to move in. They were squashed. So how do you figure, right?
The argument for this OP seems to be "Mannequins! Ha! Pfft! How can that be offensive!?"
But we ALL have our sacred cows that we are unaware of. What if, instead of mannequins, we were talking about dildos in the window or Frank Frazetta style artwork with sword-wielding chicks with big tits? I bet some liberals here would be offended and not want THAT displayed. Am I right?
So what seems strange and not offensive us is someone else's big deal. Most people that live in insulated communities are blind to their own sacred cows.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Everybody has their "thing".
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)That's where religious freedom ends. these Guardians Of The Public Virtue evidently harass people going down that street too.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)That is not a problem that the store owner can fix.
Burger King has huge posters of steaming hamburgers, the lottery shows you pictures of millions of dollars, car makers show you empty roads (wind swept with leaves) and a beautiful woman in the passenger seat -- life is full of choices and temptations. A piece of plastic doesn't even make the list.
What's creepy to me is that this kind of thinking excuses the thoughts and actions of the men. They can't control themselves because of a mannequin?
JustAnotherGen
(31,817 posts)I said pretty much the same thing the other day.
They oughta be ashamed of themselves if mannequins 'turn them on'. Sick. Sick. Sickos.
It must be impossible for those men to walk into like - Macys.
denverbill
(11,489 posts)hooray for religious nut-jobs! Freedom is for sucks!
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)being imposed on women and girls. I mean now they are trying to impose who get the pill and who won't get the pill..
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)But I also never, ever underestimate our side. I really don't think the kooky fanatics can get a decent enough foothold.
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)That's rape culture in a nutshell. That's male privilege. That's "I raped her because she was dressed like a slut and I couldn't help myself."
I'm sure it exists to some extent in other religions but in the Abrahamic religions it is instantiated and enshrined in religious lore, starting with the story of Eve. This example stands out because the Ultra-Orthodox Jewish community stands out. But there are shades of it everywhere.
PB
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)maxsolomon
(33,323 posts)Cater to my fear of sex!
Stupid Funadamentalist Monotheism, you are a curse on the planet.