How many people here have actually heard of Saul Alinsky before Newt started talking about him?

[BlueStater]

I consider myself pretty knowledgeable in politics and history and know about tons of obscure people I doubt most Americans have ever heard of but I never knew or heard of Saul Alinsky before Newt brought him up. My parents, who actually grew up in the late 60s and early 70s, have never heard of him either. Is he really this prominent father of radicalism or whatever the Obama-hating nutjobs are currently portraying him as or just some obscure name that barely anyone has heard of until the lunatics dug him up from the past?

[mdmc]

1. never heard of him until this thread

without DU i'd be middle america

[cthulu2016]

2. He was talked about much in the 2008 campaign

The reason Palin kept saying "community organizer" was part of an overall "Obama is a Saul Alinsky red" thing they were working continually on RW media. (Limbaugh, Hanitty, etc.)

[provis99]

3. I never heard of him.

But now I've been reading up on him, and he sounds pretty cool. Thanks, Newt!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. I'd heard of him, but I'm old. He was pretty well-known in the '60s.

But I haven't heard his name mentioned in years.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

13. Same here

[pampango]

50. Me too on both counts. Know who Alinsky is may be a function of how old one is

at least to some extent.

[ZombieHorde]

5. Never. nt

[niyad]

6. not all that obscure-- I certainly knew about him

(and, amazingly, newt got a couple of things right, if you look at the following:

Saul Alinsky


Saul David Alinsky (January 30, 1909 – June 12, 1972) was an American ****community organizer**** and writer. He is generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing, and has been compared to Thomas Paine as being "one of the great American leaders of the nonsocialist left."[4] He is often noted for his book Rules for Radicals.

In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions of the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots".

His ideas were later adapted by some U.S. college students and other young organizers in the late 1960s and formed part of their strategies for organizing on campus and beyond.[5] Time magazine once wrote that "American democracy is being altered by Alinsky's ideas," and conservative author William F. Buckley said he was "very close to being an organizational genius."[4]

. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky

[elleng]

9. Ditto! You beat me to it by a minute, I think, niyad.

[niyad]

10. by just a minute!! two great minds. . .

[elleng]

14. YUP!

[limpyhobbler]

7. I've heard of him. Hillary was a fan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_senior_thesis

[boppers]

46. If by "fan" you mean "thought his model was ineffective", yes.

That piece is mostly a critique.

[elleng]

8. Yes he is/was prominent, but I don't think of 'radicalism.'

(January 30, 1909 – June 12, 1972) was an American community organizer and writer. He is generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing, and has been compared to Thomas Paine as being "one of the great American leaders of the nonsocialist left."[4] He is often noted for his book Rules for Radicals.

In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions of the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots".

His ideas were later adapted by some U.S. college students and other young organizers in the late 1960s and formed part of their strategies for organizing on campus and beyond.[5] Time magazine once wrote that "American democracy is being altered by Alinsky's ideas," and conservative author William F. Buckley said he was "very close to being an organizational genius."[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky

[snagglepuss]

11. Never.

[MidwestTransplant]

12. Here's a good article from the Chicago Sun Times ("Newt needs a lesson about Saul Alinsky")

http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/10175065-452/newt-needs-a-lesson-about-saul-alinsky.html?print=true

[Quantess]

15. not me.

[MADem]

16. I have to admit I did a Bill Maher--googled his ass! nt

[boppers]

48. Same.

I thought he was some kind of firebrand, when he really just popularized the idea of deliberately provoking the status quo, until attacked back, in order to create change.

Newt: Alinski
Palin: Alinski
Obama: Alinski
Reagan: Alinski
Romney: Alinski
Tea Party: Alinski
99%: Alinski
Black Bloc: Alinski
Ron Paul: Alinski

Every time you hear about "beltway", "bubble", "crony", and "change", it's echoing Alinski.

Every time.

[riverwalker]

17. GOP obsessed with him

Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck et al are always blathering about him.

[eppur_se_muova]

18. Lots of Amazon.com customers have ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002231071

#1 in Books > Politics & Social Sciences > Government > Civics
#1 in Books > Politics & Social Sciences > Current Events > Civil Rights & Liberties
#15 in Books > Politics & Social Sciences > Politics

[Lifelong Protester]

19. Never had heard of him

and I think I'm pretty well-read, but I guess not as well-read of an elite as Newt would have you believe we all are...

[Warren Stupidity]

20. Me. Rules for radicals.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

21. In the 80s we had a film in the college collection called "Saul Alinsky Goes to War" nt

That was my introduction.

[drm604]

22. Before Newt? Yes. Before they started blabbering about him in 2008? No.

I did finally Wiki him after I saw Bill Mahr talk about him (and mention his own ignorance as to who the man is).

From reading Wikipedia, Alinski certainly doesn't seem to have been the Stalinesque menace the right would want you to believe.

[madrchsod]

23. i survived of the 60`s

saul was on the list of must reads.

[TalkingDog]

24. Me and the Spousal Unit. Course we went to liberal egghead colleges

and have worked for community based non-profits, off and on, for years.

Even so, we only had the basics, nothing in depth. Never heard of him as a nutjob....

[loyalsister]

25. Rules For Radicals is on my book shelf

because I have been heavily involved in advocacy and grassroots activism.
The funny thing about it is few people other than those who have been activists have any reason to read his stuff or know who he is. The audience he really reaches with that name are those who like the idea of Saul Alinsky influencing Obama.

[madamesilverspurs]

26. Long time ago.

What was really surprising was when Palin mentioned him in one of her many efforts to dis Obama. The real question: does anybody here really, truly believe that Palin had (a) ever heard of Alinsky before one of her speechwriters inserted his name, or (b) had even the remotest idea or understanding of his work? It is to laugh.

[bemildred]

27. +1 nt

[grasswire]

28. me

But I never thought of him as a prominent controversial figure until Barbara Olsen went nuts trying to get Hillary Clinton's college thesis and did get it (wrongfully, many think, using Congressional connections to do so because the college had sealed it during the fuss) -- and we learned that the subject of the thesis was Alinsky.

That's what thrust Alinsky into our modern-day political sphere. Barbara Olsen getting her hands on it and using the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy to make it a liability.

[MMJjestic]

29. Saw a story of him when rallied the poor of Chicago

And later when residents of NYC organized to stop some Giuliani-gentrified scheme. Sound Alliance an organization in the Puget Sound
was founded on some his organization.

[greendog]

30. "Rules for Radicals" was listed in the Whole Earth Catalog after 1971.

[WillyT]

31. LOL !!! - Great Stuff Here...

<snip>

Alinsky died of a sudden, massive heart attack in 1972, on a street corner in Carmel, California, at the age of 63. Two months previously, his interview with Playboy related to death as follows:[4]

PLAYBOY: Having accepted your own mortality, do you believe in any kind of afterlife?

ALINSKY: Sometimes it seems to me that the question people should ask is not "Is there life after death?" but "Is there life after birth?" I don't know whether there's anything after this or not. I haven't seen the evidence one way or the other and I don't think anybody else has either. But I do know that man's obsession with the question comes out of his stubborn refusal to face up to his own mortality. Let's say that if there is an afterlife, and I have anything to say about it, I will unreservedly choose to go to hell.

PLAYBOY: Why?

ALINSKY: Hell would be heaven for me. All my life I've been with the have-nots. Over here, if you're a have-not, you're short of dough. If you're a have-not in hell, you're short of virtue. Once I get into hell, I'll start organizing the have-nots over there.

PLAYBOY: Why them?

ALINSKY: They're my kind of people.

<snip>

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky

[Tx4obama]

32. When Glenn Beck was still on FoxNews he mentioned him all the time while bashing Obama & Democrats

The other night on MSNBC one of the Hosts Ed or Rachel (I think it was) read a quote made by Mitt Romney's father George Romney where George said something like " ... people should be listening to Saul Alinsky."

Maybe someone can find a link to that quote, I did a quick search the other day but didn't find it

[Major Nikon]

37. Here you go...

When slum organizer Saul Alinsky, with the West Side Organization’s militant Negroes and clerics, wanted to meet with the white Detroit rulers, Romney indirectly arranged the meeting, and attended. Democratic Mayor Jerome Cavanaugh avoided the rough company.

"I think you ought to listen to Alinsky," Romney told his reluctant white friends. ‘It seems to me that we are always talking to the same people. Maybe the time has come to hear new voices." Said an Episcopal bishop, ‘He made Alinsky sound like a Republican.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/mitt-romneys-father-palled-around-with-saul-a

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/saul-alinsky-newt-gingrich-obama_n_1236581.html

[Tx4obama]

39. Thank you for finding it :) n/t

[mia]

33. I became familiar with the "Alinsky method" the hard way.

When I joined the teachers union over 15 years ago I attended the union stewards meetings on a regular basis. I was not a steward, but meetings were open to all members.
After attending a few meetings I voiced my concerns about a health insurance issue. I was surprised (and flattered) to be invited to be part of a consensus building committee.
Several committee meetings later I realized the ruse of consensus building. Back then I researched "consensus building" and found many articles that referred to Alinsky.
That name always brings to mind manipulation and deceit for me.

I still belong to the union but believe that all of the issues that we members vote on have already been decided. It's just a matter of discrediting the naysayers or convincing them to agree to the wisdom of their decisions. My dues to the union feel more like protection money.



Alinksy Method / Delphi Technique
http://overmanwarrior.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/the-delphi-technique-how-it-works/

Have you ever been to a public meeting, like a school board meeting, or a city council meeting, or a trustee public hearing on a zoning change, only to find out that the decisions had been made before the meeting ever began? And on your way home from those meetings where you had stood up and voiced your opinion, but the group preceded anyway in spite of your protests and asked yourself why you even bothered. It’s because of The Delphi Technique or some variation of it which is designed to build group consensus for a desired idea while creating the illusion of community participation. The Delphi Technique is something that everyone needs to understand. Since intellectuals began to implement these types of manipulative studies, which require specialized training to use and understand, techniques like the Delphi have subverted our election process in a subtle way nationally by subverting common sense logic in favor of a socialist oriented group conscious founded on illusion, because the end results are most of the time pre-determined....

The Delphi Technique and consensus building are both founded in the same principle – the Hegelian dialectic of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis, with synthesis becoming the new thesis. The goal is a continual evolution to “oneness of mind” (consensus means solidarity of belief) -the collective mind, the wholistic society, the wholistic earth, etc. In thesis and antithesis, opinions or views are presented on a subject to establish views and opposing views. In synthesis, opposites are brought together to form the new thesis. All participants in the process are then to accept ownership of the new thesis and support it, changing their views to align with the new thesis. Through a continual process of evolution, “oneness of mind” will supposedly occur....


The Delphi Technique — What Is It?
http://www.learn-usa.com/transformation_process/acf001.htm

The Delphi Technique was originally conceived as a way to obtain the opinion of experts without necessarily bringing them together face to face. In recent times, however, it has taken on an all new meaning and purpose. In Educating for the New World Order by B. Eakman, the reader finds reference upon reference for the need to preserve the illusion that there is "…lay, or community, participation (in the decision-making process), while lay citizens were, in fact, being squeezed out." The Delphi Technique is the method being used to squeeze citizens out of the process, effecting a left-wing take over of the schools.

A specialized use of this technique was developed for teachers, the "Alinsky Method" (ibid, p.123). The setting or group is, however, immaterial; the point is that people in groups tend to share a certain knowledge base and display certain identifiable characteristics (known as group dynamics). This allows for a special application of a basic technique.

The change agent or facilitator goes through the motions of acting as an organizer, getting each person in the target group to elicit expression of their concerns about a program, project, or policy in question. The facilitator listens attentively, forms "task forces," "urges everyone to make lists," and so on. While s/he is doing this, the facilitator learns something about each member of the target group. S/He identifies the "leaders," the "loud mouths," as well as those who frequently turn sides during the argument — the "weak or noncommittal".

Suddenly, the amiable facilitator becomes "devil's advocate." S/He dons his professional agitator hat. Using the "divide and conquer" technique, s/he manipulates one group opinion against the other. This is accomplished by manipulating those who are out of step to appear "ridiculous, unknowledgeable, inarticulate, or dogmatic." S/He wants certain members of the group to become angry, thereby forcing tensions to accelerate. The facilitator is well trained in psychological manipulation. S/He is able to predict the reactions of each group member. Individuals in opposition to the policy or program will be shut out of the group....


The Delphi Technique — How to Disrupt It
http://www.learn-usa.com/transformation_process/acf002.htm

Ground rules for disrupting the consensus process (Delphi Technique) — when facilitators want to steer a group in a specific direction.

1) Always Be Charming. Smile, be pleasant, be courteous, moderate your voice so as not to come across as belligerent or aggressive.

2) Stay Focused. If at all possible, write your question down to help you stay focused. Facilitators, when asked questions they don't want to answer, often digress from the issue raised and try to work the conversation around to where they can make the individual asking the question look foolish, feel foolish, appear belligerent or aggressive. The goal is to put the one asking the question on the defensive. Do not fall for this tactic. Always be charming, thus deflecting any insinuation, innuendo, etc, that may be thrown at you in their attempt to put you on the defensive, but bring them back to the question you asked. If they rephrase your question into an accusatory statement (a favorite tactic) simply state, "that is not what I stated, what I asked was… (repeat your question)." Stay focused on your question.

3) Be Persistent. If putting you on the defensive doesn't work, facilitators often resort to long drawn out dissertations on some off-the-wall and usually unrelated, or vaguely related, subject that drags on for several minutes – during which time the crowd or group usually loses focus on the question asked (which is the intent). Let them finish with their dissertation/expose, then nicely, with focus and persistence, state, "but you didn't answer my question. My question was… (repeat your question)."[i/i]

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

34. Bottom line, his name sounds Jewish and sounds like "Trotsky".

That's all Newt needed to pick his name to repeat over and over. It's just meant to invoke thoughts of radicals, Communists.

Same as the "foodstamp president" thing is a dogwhistle to a racial stereotype, and other stuff he said earlier in primary season about Obama wanting to make America look more like Detroit than Texas, invoking the stereotype of Detroit as the classic representation of Inner City (read: black and poor) America.

[grantcart]

35. He was a key source for anti Vietnam strategies.

The first I heard about him was trying to get the city of Chicago to agree to better plumbing or something and the City wouldn't talk to him.

So he organized busses of folks to go to O'hare (before security restricted access) and they occupied every bathroom stall in the airport so that travelers couldn't use the facilities. The City caved immediately.

We organized one protest by announcing that we were going to napalm a dog the next day at noon.

Of course outraged people gathered to stop it and when the appointed time they were handed leaflots which congratulated them in saving a dog now call their Congressman to save a village. If not directly from Alinsky it was Alinsky-esque.

[Gormy Cuss]

36. I had but I've worked with community organizations n/t

[MarianJack]

38. I read a Playboy Interview with him in the early 70s.

He sounded like a hell of a guy.

He spoke extensively of the "shit-in" and the "fart-in". His point was that the threat of an action was frequently all that was needed to get the other side to cave. The interviewer related how Saul ended every evening by saying "We're really gonna fuck 'em tomorrow" as a way of getting people psyched up.

It IS typical of the rethugs to make a dead person their target. Saul Alinsky has been gone for nearly 40 years.

Of course, the rightists indignation fits perfectly into my general rule of thumb that states that if someone pisses off all of the right people, they've got to be good!

PEACE!

[kiranon]

40. Never heard of him until Newt referred to him. n/t

[dixiegrrrrl]

41. I knew of him and studied his methods

I was training to be a Community Organizer back in 1970's.
He was taught in a couple courses in college.
So were Frances Fox Piven's materials.( she was married to Richard Cloward)

[JDPriestly]

42. The name is new to me.

[RZM]

43. I have, but the first time was the 2008 campaign

Before that no. I've only heard him mentioned in conjunction with Obama. The right loves talking about him, actually. As Newt shows, they've never really stopped since the last election.

[Jim Lane]

44. I heard of him -- even before the 2008 campaign.

Looking at the responses here, it seems there's a strong age correlation. We Boomers are more likely to have heard of him.

[backscatter712]

45. The Beck-heads were talking about him during the 2008 election.

It's been one of the right-wing conspiracy theories for some time now.

Oh, and I love Bill Maher's take on Saul Alinsky...

"So I Wikipedia'd the guy. Instantly I discovered the problem. He liked black people."

[renie408]

52. I love Bill Maher and this clip does a lot more than just explain Alinsky

It also talks about the GOP running against phantom candidates that they invent. When I ask conservatives I know why they don't like Obama, they rattle off a bunch of total bullshit. Every bit of it easily refutable, but even when I can get them to admit that they were fill of shit, they STILL say they don't like him. They don't like him because he is DIFFERENT and conservatives are scared to death of different.

[ellisonz]

47. Yes.

During the 2008 primaries in relation to Hillary Clinton...

[Prophet 451]

49. A little

I'd vaguely heard the name before but only in passing, I became familiar with it when they started screaming about it in 2008. His ideas, from what little I've read, really weren't all that radical. They were just tilted toward social justice rather than the dog-eat-dog world the right are pushing.

[FlaGatorJD]

51. For us old folks who went to college in the 70's or 80's, his book was used in some poli sci classes

Rules for Radicals

[jwirr]

53. I am familiar with his name but have no idea what he was pushing even thought I did buy one of his

books at a rummage sale but never read it. And for the record I did not know who he was back in the 60s either.

[GeorgeGist]

54. He was a good friend.

Perhaps instead of trying to marginalize him, you might check this out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky

[backscatter712]

55. I just picked up Rules for Radicals myself.

Sounds like an interesting read...