Three Years After Ledbetter Fair Pay Act Passed, Women Still Earn Far Less Than Men

[xchrom]

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/01/30/414233/ledbetter-three-years/

Sunday marked the third anniversary of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, the first legislation signed into law by President Obama. The law, which expanded the statute of limitations on fair pay lawsuits, was a response to a Supreme Court ruling against Ledbetter in her fair pay case.

Though the law expanded the legal remedies available to women who have been victims of discriminatory pay, little has been done to address the pay gap that exists between male and female employees. Since the Equal Pay Act of 1963 was signed into law, the pay gap has closed at less than half-a-cent per year. That trend is continuing, as the pay gap barely closed from 2009 to 2010.

Women made 77 percent of men’s earnings in 2009, the year the law passed. In 2010, that was virtually unchanged, as women’s wages rose to 77.4 percent of men’s. The gap is even larger for African Americans and Latinos: black women made 67.5 percent of all men’s earnings in 2009, while Latino women made 57.7 percent. In 2010, those figures ticked up to 67.7 percent and 58.7 percent, respectively.

Women make up half of the American workforce, and in two-thirds of American families, the mother is the primary breadwinner or a co-breadwinner. But they make less than their male counterparts in all 50 states, though the size of each state’s wage gap varies. While the gap continues to close in places like Washington, D.C., where women make 91.8 percent of men’s earnings, it is growing in others, like Wyoming, where women’s earnings dropped from 65.5 percent of men’s in 2009 to just 63.8 percent in 2010.

[joeglow3]

1. Do you have a link to the breakdown by career field?

I would be interested in seeing which fields contribute more to the problem than others.

[xchrom]

2. Sorry. That I don't have. Nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. That is the key point

The disparity in identical positions has been disappearing. The issue is that women occupy a disproportionate share of lower paying positions.

For example, women with computer degrees do as well as their male counterparts. However, they are a surprisingly small percentage of the field.

[Scout]

4. article disagrees with you....

Because of the gender pay gap, women with the same education doing the same job as men earn far less over their working lifetimes. The wage gap costs $723,000 over a 40-year career for women with college degrees. In some industries, the gap can cost women close to a million dollars.

[joeglow3]

5. That doesn't dispute what s/he said.

That is just comparing those with college degrees. My wife and I have the same level of degree. However, hers is in nursing and mine is in accounting. My field pays a lot more than hers. However, the women I work with make the same (in fact, I know the 2 highest paid out of 10 in my area are women).

[Scout]

8. you aren't saying what the article is saying....

women with the same education doing the same job as men

same education doing the same job ... NOT one with a college degree in engineering and one with a degree in child care....

[hfojvt]

15. the line in the article apparently comes from a leap of faith

Last edited Tue Jan 31, 2012, 06:33 PM - Edit history (1)

First they cite data which compares the median income of full time men with the median income of full time women "The wage gap remained statistically unchanged in the last year. Women's earnings were 77.4 percent of men's in 2010, compared to 77.0 percent in 2009, according to Census statistics released September 13, 2011 based on the median earnings of all full-time, year-round workers."


edit: whoops, forgot the link thingy http://www.pay-equity.org/

Then they assume that that wage "gap" must also exist between women and men with the same education doing the same job, and they make their calculations from that assumption.

But it is still an assumption. The data they cite do not show a wage gap between women and men with the same education doing the same job. They only show a gap between median incomes of full time workers.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. And many others disagree with it

The issue is the meaning of "the same job". The narrower the definition, the more equality there is. Any mid sized employer (or larger), government agency, etc has equalized that, many some time ago.

Teaching is a good example. While some school districts pay better than others, teachers are on the same pay schedule regardless of gender.

In terms of undergraduate degrees, the tech fields are very male dominated. Liberal arts are majority female. The former pays much better than the latter.

The issue today is more demographics of the field, rather that disparities within it. That was not always true.

[Scout]

9. not quite

women with the same education doing the same job as men

same education, same job.

not tech degrees vs. child care degrees.

[joeglow3]

20. Do they link to the underlying support?

I have looked at this in the past and come to the same conclusion as above when reading the actual study (NOT the article ABOUT the study).

[LiberalFighter]

26. That gap will remain when it is computed for a working period

until more time has elapsed since the bill passed. When computing for a working period and you only have data from the past it is difficult to compute. In addition, it takes time for legislation to start taking effect in many cases.

[redqueen]

11. Here's one.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/the-gender-pay-gap-by-industry/

[MellowDem]

6. Would be nice to know...

how much of it was due to discrimination. There are a lot of factors that go into this.

[hfojvt]

10. ridiculous

You are just supposed to assume it is ALL due to discrimination, just like the article does.

[redqueen]

12. There have been so many studies about this.

And no matter how many times the information is doled out and passed around... still the stubborn insistence on denial.

[joeglow3]

22. I just want to see the citation by field.

All the evidence I have seen is that they calculate this at a VERY high level. Teachers and nurses are over-represented by women and pay less than fields that are male-dominated. As I pointed out, my employer (and all my prior employers) pays women and men the same. Overall, it has been a male-dominated field (it is closing in on equilibrium today). My wife has worked in a hospital and a Doctor's office. Both have paid men and women the same. I have three friends who are teachers and they all paid men and women the same. The issue was not with the individual professions or employers. Rather, the issue was with the demographics of individual fields.

[redqueen]

23. And I've already provided one analysis of that for you.

There are many more out there.

The fact remains (no matter how many times or for how long one avoids it) ... studies confirm, again and again, that on average, women are paid less than men. This is true even when differences (e.g. child care issues, education, experience) are taken into consideration.

[Major Nikon]

25. I don't think there's any question that some of it is due to discrimination

The question is how much? Most every article that hits the media (including the one in the OP) does not take socio-economic considerations into account. What you posted before is not an analysis. It's just a break down of the pay gap by industry. It still doesn't take socio-economic considerations into account. The studies I've seen which do take socio-economic considerations into account put the pay gap much lower into the low single digits. If we really do want to do something about this problem, the first step should be to precisely identify where the problem is and why it exists. News stories that throw out 20-30% figures are very misleading.

[etherealtruth]

13. I realize my experience is anecdotal

... but, my experience in the environmental field (geologists, chemists, enviro scientists, engineers ... ) is that women are paid less for the same education and experience.

This came to a head this year for me .... while I was inarguably the most skilled and knowledgeable in my department (as well as the most senior member) I was not the highest paid. I allowed my employer the opportunity to remedy this (they did) ... however, the other female scientists are paid less than our male counter parts.

[hfojvt]

18. this is anecdotal as well

One of my co-workers was in a part-time job for many years as a cashier. She had been there much longer than me. Now there are 3 or 4 part-time cashiers and building supervisors on staff. One of them quit, and an ad was placed in the paper to hire another one. She read the ad and noticed that they were advertising for a higher wage than she was presently being paid. Which was obviously absurd. She said "what, should I quit and re-apply at the higher salary?"

Now, you might say this confirms your example, but, since we have never had a male cashier, it is very likely that the new, higher paid person, would also be a woman. They were advertising the higher wage before they had selected the employee.

It can be one of those things that happens. Starting wages go up and long time employees get raises, but the two may not, for one reason or another, happen at the same pace.

At the low level where I work, wages are set by fiat. An employer advertises for a job paying a starting wage of $8.50 an hour and that's what a person gets paid, regardless of gender. Now when I look up, I do see better jobs way up there where I cannot reach them that advertise a salary from $50-60,000 a year depending on experience. Where I sit, even the lower rung looks pretty darn good, but my guess is that a person will be higher or lower on that ladder, not based on gender, but based on pushiness, confidence and sales ability. Those who push for it, and confidently demand it will be hired on the higher side of the scale.

Now there may be some sexism in this, not so much wages, but in that males are encouraged and trained to be pushy and agressive whereas females are trained to be submissive and cooperative and helpful. That would not surprise me.

HOWEVER, when I look at this situation, I do not think to myself "let's train the females to be as pushy and agressive as the males". No, no, no, a thousand times no. I would much rather reverse that. I would much rather train the males to be less agressive and more cooperative and helpful.

But every time I suggest that at a staff meeting, one of the big oafs gives me a wedgie.

[etherealtruth]

19. I work in a small industry ...

... that has been historically dominated by men. Wages are determined on an individual basis .... there appears to be a pattern of paying males a higher salary than women (in the company I work for) ... my understanding is that this occurs in the industry as a whole but not such a marked difference (and is reported to be improving).

We have even had upper management state ..."but he's got a family to support." Allow me to assure you ... as a single mother I have a family to support, as well (not to mention that this is wholly beside the point).

I think the world has improved but in fields/industries where wages are largely discretionary ...significant wage gaps can and do occur

[hfojvt]

21. I have never, in my twenty some employers over 30 some years

worked a job where the wages were discretionary.

It also sounds to me, like you are working one of those jobs well above the $8.50 to $10 range where I live and work.

To some degree though, every worker has three choices, regardless of gender.
1. take the wage you are offered
2. fight for a better wage
3. find a different job

I also am not sure why an employer should not have the right to discriminate in their own small business. To some degree though, it does not make sense to do so. If I have a female computer programmer working for $60,000 a year, why the heck would I pay a male programmer $70,000 a year instead of just hiring another woman and saving $10,000?

But thanks to politics, women now have an option that men do not.

3F - sue for a better wage

[Zalatix]

14. I hope I don't get banned for this...

What does this mean?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/27/young-women-earning-more-men

[JTFrog]

24. Get banned for what?

Pointing out that the US and UK are different?

[NNN0LHI]

16. Women didn't get less pay where I retired from

Women made the exact same pay as the men did. To the penny. That is what a union does for you.

Don

[etherealtruth]

17. Yes it is

I wish I had union representation

[Major Nikon]

27. Actually they may be getting paid less

Their hourly rate or yearly salary may be the same, but how much unpaid time off do women take vs men?

Some jobs have excellent benefits that allow for generous paid time off for health and family issues. Most don't. This leaves men and women taking time off that is unpaid, and women inevitably wind up taking more which affects their bottom line.

[redqueen]

28. I would like to point out that this act, while necessary and good, was not an example of progress.

The Ledbetter Act restored us to where we were before the Ledbetter v Goodyear Tire decision. It's making up for lost ground, that's it.