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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere weren't any Kamikazes at Pearl Harbor
Ted Cruz thinks that there were Kamikazes at Pearl Harbor.
This man is a fucking moron.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)still_one
(92,110 posts)marble falls
(57,061 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I may use that one on my show next week in my hall of shame section.
dballance
(5,756 posts)You should add a link to some historical reference to back you up. Otherwise you'll end up getting all the people who don't know that Kamikazes were only part of the last-ditch efforts of the Japanese. They pretty much knew they'd lost and were just trying to exact as much damage as possible to forestall the looming invasion that the Allies were going to do before Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
ON EDIT: Otherwise you might get some people making nasty comments about you sympathizing with the attack.
JHB
(37,158 posts)...but keep an eye out for members of the 101st Chairborne Division editing it to conform to Cruz, the way they did with Paul Revere and other Palin flubs.
These attacks, which began in October 1944, followed several critical military defeats for the Japanese. They had long lost aerial dominance due to outdated aircraft and the loss of experienced pilots. On a macroeconomic scale, Japan experienced a decreasing capacity to wage war, and a rapidly declining industrial capacity relative to the United States. The Japanese government expressed its reluctance to surrender. In combination, these factors led to the use of kamikaze tactics as Allied forces advanced towards the Japanese home islands.
From your link:
Before the formation of kamikaze units, deliberate crashes had been used as a last resort when a pilot's plane was severely damaged and he did not want to risk being captured or he wanted to do as much damage to the enemy as possible since he was crashing anyway; this was the case in both the Japanese and Allied air forces. According to Axell and Kase, these suicides "were individual, impromptu decisions by men who were mentally prepared to die."[2] In most cases, there is little evidence that these hits were more than accidental collisions, of the kind that sometimes happen in intense sea-air battles. One example of this occurred on 7 December 1941 during the attack on Pearl Harbor. First Lieutenant Fusata Iidas plane had been hit and was leaking fuel, when he apparently used it to make a suicide attack on Kaneohe Naval Air Station. Before taking off, he had told his men that if his plane was badly damaged he would crash it into a "worthy enemy target."[3]
While they weren't officially called kamikaze at the time, there actually were kamikaze attacks at Pearl Harbor. This Wiki citation is one, there were a couple of others (though IIRC they actually happened at Hickham Field, so technically they weren't at Pearl Harbor).
Anyone who has an interest in the history of what happened at Pearl Harbor, particularly in the mindsets of the Japanese commanders who put the plan in motion, should read Gordon Prange's At Dawn We Slept. It's incredibly exhaustive and thoroughly covers pretty much every imaginable aspect of the events of December 7, 1941.
JHB
(37,158 posts)...a crapload of them with me" have been around for the entire history of warfare.
Yes, I've known about Iida's dive since reading Walter Lord's Day of Infamy sometime back when Jimmy Carter was president. And yes, "kamikaze" has become a colloquial term for just about any suicidal attack. What does that have to do with Cruz?
When Tailgunner Ted starts paying more attention to what does and does not constitute things like "socialist" or "communism", and stops accusing people of sedition just because they have a different political view, then I'll be more willing to cut him some slack on his looseness with other terminology.
dballance
(5,756 posts)Some day I'd like to be disappointed in these circumstances and not be proven correct. Nope, he didn't go with the sympathizer angle but still just had to get a useless, negative comment in there to try to refute you.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)The pilots from the very beginning were trained to crash their planes into a ship. They were never going to fly back to their airfield under any circumstances. They knew when they took off it was a one way trip that ended with their death. That is not the same as what Lieutenant Iida did.
Iida intended to return to his carrier after the attack. That very fact makes his attack not a kamikaze attack.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Kennah
(14,234 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)JHB
(37,158 posts)What office does Cruz hold again?
Life imitates parody.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)He seems destined to go down in flames, all of his own doing. Isn't that a Kamikaze?
JI7
(89,244 posts)it's something he should be ridiculed for
Javaman
(62,510 posts)factually incorrect???? again.
that's my moronic senator you are talking about.
I pray that he's a one term wonder.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)But they did use slave labor to build guided missiles, and not-so-guided ones.
pampango
(24,692 posts)The Leonidas Squadron, formally known as 5th Staffel of Kampfgeschwader 200 was a unit which was originally formed to fly the Fieseler Fi 103R (Reichenberg), a manned version of the V-1 flying bomb, in attacks in which the pilot was likely to be killed, or at best to parachute down at the attack site. The Reichenberg was never used in combat because Werner Baumbach, the commander of KG 200, and his superiors considered it an unnecessary waste of life and resources, and preferred to use the Mistel bomb, piloted from an aircraft which released it and returned, instead. However, from 17 April until 20 April 1945 (during the Battle of Berlin) thirty-five pilots of the Leonidas Squadron flew suicide sorties against Soviet bridges over the river Oder with little noticeable effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonidas_Squadron
Obviously this was nothing compared to the scale on which kamikazes were used by Japan. I just had never known that Germany did this even a little.
rppper
(2,952 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 7, 2013, 06:47 PM - Edit history (1)
Segment that dealt with Japanese and German "kamikazes" a few nights ago...seems Germany did have a dedicated air group towards the end of WWII that would crash their aircraft into allied bombers, but the pilot was supposed to bail out prior to the collision....there are a few recorded instances of this...I'll try to find a link...
Found it...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderkommando_Elbe
Recursion
(56,582 posts)1. "We won at Pearl Harbor because we were prepared!"
2. "Nasty belligerent pigs like you are the reason the Russians beat us to the moon!"
(Yes, they know it's stupid; they're trying to make sure you can keep your composure when you hear stuff like that.)
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)But as an individual initiative it occurred from the start;From Wiki
One example of this occurred on 7 December 1941 during the attack on Pearl Harbor. First Lieutenant Fusata Iidas plane had been hit and was leaking fuel, when he apparently used it to make a suicide attack on Kaneohe Naval Air Station. Before taking off, he had told his men that if his plane was badly damaged he would crash it into a "worthy enemy target."[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)bluedigger
(17,086 posts)While not technically kamikazes, they were all on a one way trip. One submariner did survive to be captured, however.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_attack#Submarines