General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsslackmaster
(60,567 posts)Omaha Steve
(99,077 posts)From your link!
C.
Key Findings, Causes, and Recommendations
8
The September 8, 2011, event showed that
the system was not being operated in a
secure N-1 state.
9
This failure stemmed primarily fr
om weaknesses in two broad areas
operations planning and real-time situationa
l awarenesswhich, if done properly, would
have allowed system operators to proactively
operate the system in a secure N-1 state
during normal system conditions and to restor
e the system to a secure N-1 state as soon
as possible, but no longer than 30 minutes.
Without adequate planning and situational
awareness, entities responsible for operat
ing and overseeing the transmission system
could not ensure reliable oper
ations within System Operating Limits (SOLs) or prevent
cascading outages in the event of a single contingency.
10
As demonstrated in Appendix
C, inadequate situational awareness and planning were also identified as causes of the
2003 blackout that affected an estimated 50 million people in the United States and
Canada.
The inquiry also identified other underlying factors that contributed to the event,
including: (1) not identifying and studying
the impact on Bulk-Power System (BPS)
11
reliability of sub-100 kV faciliti
es in planning and operations;
12
(2) the failure to
recognize Interconnection Reliability Op
erating Limits (IROLs) in the Western
Interconnection;
13
(3) not studying and coordinating the effect of protection systems,
including Remedial Action
Schemes (RASs), during plausible contingency scenarios;
14
and (4) not providing effective tools and oper
ating instructions for use when reclosing
lines with large phase angle differe
nces across the reclosing breakers.
15
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It was management...
And com'on, I got to meet the neighbors.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Management doesn't throw switches.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)You know the real problem, read why it happened. I am expecting another one. There are severe weaknesses in the model.
But hey, you hate labor? That comment was uncalled for...and it was management who was at fault. That is per the PDF you posted.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)What a surprise.
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)and ever since deregulation hit Maryland, PEPCO has not seen fit to retain enough union lineworkers to deal with its frequent outages. I believe they have laid off several hundred in the past decade or so. I want to see re-regulation and the rehiring of these wonderful folks.
Nancy Waterman
(6,407 posts)Power is out at least once a year, sometimes more. Heavy snow, high winds, heavy rains, or sometimes for no cause at all. The derecho of last summer brought several days of intense heat and no power.
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)every time the power goes out and stays out for days.
The reason for the delays is that, rather than maintain an adequate number of line workers, PEPCO and other utilities have reciprocal agreements whereby they send repair crews to one another to deal with big outages.
This means the out-of-state repair crews have to travel many miles, even many days, and catch enough sleep so they can go to work without being too exhausted. It is not a good practice in many ways. It create long waits for people without power. It means repair crews that work directly for PEPCO are worked half to death, without a chance to rest. And it's very hard on the incoming repair crews.
But the PEPCO executives are rolling in dollars, I'm sure.
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)although we have BG&E. So yeah, we've had power outages. The multi-day ones are especially lovely since our house has a well for water and the pump doesn't work without electricity. Luckily, we've got a small generator so we can power the pump, but that's about it.
matt819
(10,749 posts)And I did just that when the linemen came out to sort things out.
Are all utility companies unionized?
Omaha Steve
(99,077 posts)Remember last year when conservatives wrongly accused unions of sending out of state workers back home after the hurricane Sandy hit the east coast?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/sandyunion.asp
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)I wish I could afford one.
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)Earthquake country.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)I have not experienced a significant (over a few hours) power outage in decades. The two communities where I have spent the majority of my life have the utilities buried. That was foresight on the part of the utility managers.
Kudos to the lineman that work to repair lines in all kinds of terrible conditions and travel all over the country doing it.
(If I did live out east where the power grid is older and more prone to outages I certainly would have a back up generator.)
Although I don't know all the details of the local setup in this small town, we do have our own plant. It's associated somehow with a large regional utility, and costs are higher than in outlying areas. But most of our utilities are buried also, and the rare times something goes wrong, we're back online in a jiffy. For all its flaws and drawbacks, I could've picked a worse place to retire, no doubt.
I'm still trying to save up for a whole-house backup generator, though. Don't like to push my luck. Since I have low tolerance to heat, I suppose if the power went out for an extended period in August or such, I could place old quilts and blankets over the swing set frame, wet them down, and use that for a cool cave. I know this summer I'll be able to afford a solar powered fan. I've also invested in gel-filled cool pads that wick off body heat.
But what in blue blazes became of the Bloom Box? I'd hoped they'd be economical for home use before I, uh.... don't need them anymore.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)and most of the power outages that do occur are because of spring/summer storms where trees take down powerlines. There have been times where power was out in some areas for over a week. That's not long by hurricane standards, but it is here. I have relatives out east (they've only been there a couple of years) and they lose their power several times a year. I know they can afford a generator but they still don't have one which I find baffling.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)... will eventually be available to the average homeowner, I'm sure. But maybe not in time for me to benefit.
SomeGuyInEagan
(1,515 posts)For over ten years now, nothing longer than a few minutes and those are few and far between.
Quite unlike the bulk of the Twin Cities metro that is served by Xcel - seems like they get hit (in various places) a lot, with storms and without from what friends and co-workers tell me. But rarely for more than eight hours and almost never more than a few days.
It's all pretty remarkable, really. Though I also know that the national grid is in big trouble due to age.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)Anoko Cooperative Electric but am now on Excel. So far, even with Excel the last 13 years we have not had more than the occasional, short-term power outage. We don't even bring our 5k generator home from up north anymore. Of course, now that I've written this, we'll get a spring storm that knocks our power out for days.
rurallib
(62,346 posts)so - while they are not union they are well paid and benefited and have been here forever. My neighbor just retired after 35 years. His replacement had ten years experience coming in.
all to say that we know how important those folks are. While they are not union, they benefit from unions.
spanone
(135,637 posts)reflection
(6,286 posts)Lived on the same power grid as the hospital across the street. I was out for 2 hours, everyone else I knew was around 11-14 days.
My apartment turned into a flophouse for two weeks.
And I also wrecked my truck in the ice. Fun times.
jdadd
(1,313 posts)I'm on AEP-Ohio power.... When they had their own linemen, We'd be back up in a jiffy....Now thanks to the elimination of crews, and use of independant contractors (scabs) I was without power four days, till linemen came in from Georgia to get the damage repaired....I've considered installing a natural gas powered, automatic backup generator. I have a 4.5 KW gasoline powered generator....It's a hassle just getting that one out, started, and hooked up, to keep the essentials running.
I want our union linemen back!!
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)And yes, I consider the linemen national heroes!
Separation
(1,975 posts)Was stationed at New River MCAS, Jacksonville NC. My daughter was 3 weeks old, I can tell you that was a very miserable time. Since then I have always had a generator, and a zombie survival kit.
Forgot to add, that my wife and I lost one of our favorite resturants in Top Sail beach. We used to love going there, but after the strom they didnt let anyone rebuild. Havent been there in ages so Im not sure if they have allowed people to build there yet or not.
Raine
(30,540 posts)goes the power, get rain and out goes the power.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)Raine
(30,540 posts)doesn't take much for the power to go out. I have to admit though it hasn't been too bad for the last couple of years. The last time it went out was when the wind was blowing and a power pole went down.
4_TN_TITANS
(2,977 posts)Girl I work with in TN was talking about her boyfriend flying into MA yesterday to help with the snow storm.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I live in North Georgia just northwest of Atlanta. There is at least one power outage during the summer, and I think that is due to all the air conditioners overloading the circuits. There are often power surges. After losing a DVD player, a refrigerator and a window air conditioner because of a surge, I made sure everything is now plugged into surge protectors. And those surge protectors work quite well because I have had a few surges and so far nothing has been affected.
Rider3
(919 posts)and it lasted for too many days.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Honestly, I can get by without it for that long, no problem. They can take their time to do it right, any day. Go safely.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)It got really cold the last day due to a snow storm that blew in. We were very happy when the power came back on.
richmwill
(1,326 posts)It became a joke- any time the wind gusted over 20mph, I would say "Uh oh- Power's going out". I never blamed the linemen- I always blamed the weather and the incompetent corporate management at NYSEG who would never, ever give any restoration updates for days if we were out that long.
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)The early union years.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)dem in texas
(2,672 posts)We were without power for about 3 1/2 days following a big storm in May about 5 or 6 years ago. We could see the fire run down the power lines as the trees fell during the storm. Repair crews came from all over to help get the lines fixed. It was the best feeling in the world to see the crew from Memphis come down our ally and fix the lines. It was so hot we were staying out in the yard and we took them cold bottled water from our ice chest.
Initech
(99,915 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Love unions but lineman couldn't help with those.
pansypoo53219
(20,908 posts)i got the # + i called, but i was not the 1st caller. they told me it would be back around 2am. i figured a critter did it. they got it fixed in less time. i got a cookie cookbook too. and a CALL. it was a branch.
Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)Although I'm not a lineman.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)Then I thought "when do traffic lights break?"
Yeah, I like the outdoors, but not THAT much.
So if you're reading this, thank a lineman!
BainsBane
(53,003 posts)It was a pain.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)pkz
(719 posts)My guy was a travelling storm trooper, nearly every storm in this country had his crew working to put the power back on.
Now he is still a union member, but now a project safety manager for a large contractor
kdmorris
(5,649 posts)for 2 weeks, the people that finally came to fix it were from Ohio. I couldn't stop telling them how much I was grateful that they came to help (I was probably annoying the crap out of them). I felt bad that I couldn't offer them any cold water or whatever - it was still in the upper 80's with 80+ percent humidity and they still drove all the way down from Ohio in early September to help us out.
I truthfully loved them that day (it had gotten up to 94 degrees in the house and we didn't have a generator and still had well water - so no water, either. Truly, those 2 weeks were hell, punctuated by trips to the local hospital just to charge our cell phones and have AC for 1/2 hour)
ileus
(15,396 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...we were pretty happy when we got it back. Cold showers will wake you up no matter when you take them.
Crepuscular
(1,057 posts)We average 3 - 4 days a year without power, longest that I can remember was last spring when the power was out for 6 days due to a late snowstorm that dumped a foot of wet snow overnight and brought down a ton of trees and lines. We have a smaller generator, enough to keep the refrigerator and freezer going and to recharge cell phones & kindles. Have been seriously thinking of getting a whole house natural gas gen set but it's a bunch of money to spend on what is mainly just an inconvenience.
Grateful for Hope
(39,320 posts)In my area, we had a major power outage that lasted several days a year ago. It was massive, and linemen from other parts of the country came here and helped with the restoration.
I remember driving in my area, and passing by these amazing people doing their work. Cars in front of me were blaring their horns in appreciation, and I followed suit. It was amazing.
My hat is off to these fine workers!
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)maryellen99
(3,782 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)who taught me the easiest way to remember the rules to keep you alive when working with electricity. I have another friend who is a lineman too. He told me he has been in storms so windy that the utility pole was swaying back and forth with him on it. Props to those guys for the job they do getting the electricity back on. It is definitely not a job for the faint of heart.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Of course, when I lived in an authoritarian regime abroad, the way the leadership prevented the citizenry from hearing the news from overseas was to combine pre-planned power outages with jamming of radio waves, making it very difficult to hear/understand what the BBC world service was saying. If you had good batteries and listened hard, though, you could make it out, even with the screeching and squealing.
Bay Boy
(1,689 posts)"they will be there right after these events are over"
I've never seen a lineman up a pole in a thunderstorm.
Omaha Steve
(99,077 posts)I see your point though.
unblock
(51,974 posts)hurricane irene, 8 days.
snowtober, 7 days.
and countless episodes of 4 to 24 hours.
connecticut has many trees and above ground power. seems we lose power whenever there's a wind gust over 40 mph, nevermind actual snow or rain storms.
longship
(40,416 posts)The guy had it fixed within three hours.
A tree fell on my property and took out a line that bridged my dirt road. This was during winter so no power in my extremely rural environs means not only no heat, but also no water.
The guy who did the work was wonderful, and, given the number of outages reported on local news, must have been working his fucking tail off.
He not only restored the power to several houses, he also took out a chain saw and cut the tree up and piled it along the side of the road. It was, after all, laying across the dirt road -- the only kind here in these parts.
By the way, my electrical utility is a CO-OP which services a great part of rural Michigan. They are damned good.
Generic Brad
(14,270 posts)It is great to live smack in the middle of a downtown because we are up and running before anyone else.
Tip of the cap to the men and women who keep us powered up!
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Linemen wait until the storm has passed when it is safe to work the lines. Trying to work on a pole with hurricane force winds would be suicidal. They do excellent work under difficult conditions.
When one area is badly hit they come in from other localaties to help get things going again.
I don't know if ONCOR in the Dallas area is unionized or not, but I have seen only excellent service from them.
Lisa0825
(14,487 posts)My street was back on the next day, but I had a line down in my back yard. Since I had no emergency needs (like an oxygen machine for example), I knew I'd be one of the last restored, but I did not complain. When the crew came back to my street, I went to a bakery and bought a big box of of cookies and brought it to them, and thanked them for their hard work.
glowing
(12,233 posts)bury lines, make a smart grid, put solar onto roof tops and utilize all forms of alt energy to move ourselves off of carbon and nuclear based energy.
Rhiannon12866
(203,041 posts)My Dad worked for the power company for over 40 years and he has the utmost respect for the linemen. BTW, he said they hated the Glen Campbell song, very inaccurate.
marylovem4
(3 posts)For a whole month while waiting for con ed working day & .nite we was living with no power no candles nothing for the first two days then we got boxes of candles & flashlight ,it was cold my food had spoiled no heat just a nightmare .I didn't evacuate because of my pitbull ,I couldn't take him with me so I stayed with him ,,and my son stood with me he was 24 but we managed and in nyc ,we are troopers and survivors .and with god in our lifes we can survive anything amen..
Rhiannon12866
(203,041 posts)Sounds like a nightmare! But I'm with you, would not have left my dog, either. Just glad to hear that you're safe now.