I like being a guy.

[lumberjack_jeff]

I like the fact that society gives me the respect to make my own mistakes, and live with their consequences. I wouldn't like having my every action second guessed by a bunch of well-meaning strangers alert to warn me about the impact of my choices, nor attempts to displace the blame for those choices onto society.

I have no doubt that this kind of collective hand-wringing would feel disrespectful and disempowering. I've read many female DU'ers describe this as "being property".

There's a flipside to this "guy empowerment". Is it preferable that the community intervene to stop me from making a mistake? Or failing that, to hang their heads in collective guilt that systems weren't in place to prevent it? Or is it better if those same people simply point and laugh at the bruises that my mistake earned me?

There's an appropriate balance between paternalistic protection and presumed autonomy that neither society at large, nor DU specifically, has attained with regard to either women or men.

[Swamp Lover]

1. I wish that you would have run this by me before you posted it.

Perhaps we can form a committee to review your posts from no on......

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. There is.

Its role is kind of advisory, though.

[olddots]

3. most of the time I wish I wasn't human

this post proves I try not to be

[sibelian]

4. There's definitely an assymetry but it's a very peculiar, subtle one.

It seems to me that the kind of adulthood that women "get" is actually thrust upon them somewhat unceremoniously, and it's a twisted, lopsided, not-very-grown-up kind of being a grown-up, even now. Men are supposed to prove themselves, but largely speaking the things they have to go through to do this proving aren't terribly taxing and once they've done the "proving" that's kind of it. They are acceptable.

If I was female I'd find it infuriating.

[lumberjack_jeff]

5. I think that asymmetry can be summarized in four words.

"Women and children first"

But I wouldn't describe it as subtle.

[sibelian]

6. That's a single strand of the assymetry, jeff...

...lensed out from the greater assymetry. Male/female interactions are not all about "women and children first". You are, in a sense, right, but you are cherry-picking.

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. There are a number of structural and social inequalities that derive from that basic first principle

Some are obvious, others not.

Individual male and female interactions my not be directly dictated by that fundamental idea, but the cultural landscape is sculpted by it.

[tblue37]

10. Like all the "women and children first" legislation that gets passed

in DC and in state houses around the country, because making sure women and children are protected and cared for is what the USA!USA!USA!USA! is all about, amirate?

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. Abortion is an example.

Abortion prohibition legislation is premised on the idea that women, like children, can't be trusted to make their own choices and live with their consequences.

Individuals can't choose the form that the protection of others will take.

[Dash87]

7. "Women and children first" tells a lot about how much women are respected as well in our society.

Spoiler: Not very much. Not very much at all.

And to those that claim that "women and children first" shows respect and not the exact opposite, or is even an advantage - it's not. Quite the opposite.

Women are talked down to, not taken seriously, and thought of as less able. It's not fair.

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. I fully agree. n/t