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libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 03:33 PM Mar 2013

My take on sexism

if you are a man you and I have spent our entire life benefiting from the privilege society and culture has given us.
Never are we called into question or dismissed for our body shape or appearance.
Never are we called names for being strong,intelligent and assertive.
Never do we suffer for being paid less while expected to bear and raise children.

Stop fucking whining about the fact that women have been maligned simply for being a woman and work to make all equal.
So what if now and then it seems we get the short end of something,it pales in comparison to what patriocracy has done.

Centuries of war and killing is our male history,not something to be proud of.

77 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
My take on sexism (Original Post) libtodeath Mar 2013 OP
Trashing thread #15... UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #1
Oh,that so hurts me libtodeath Mar 2013 #2
Oh course you can. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #3
Please do then n/t libtodeath Mar 2013 #4
of course you are. trumad Mar 2013 #5
... redqueen Mar 2013 #28
No man has ever been criticized for his "body shape or appearance"? Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #6
Fair enough and now thinking I worded that wrong but still does not change the fact libtodeath Mar 2013 #8
OK, that I can agree with. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #11
The criticism of Chris Christie comes to mind loyalsister Mar 2013 #12
You beat me to it. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #13
Sexism will not go away until men speak to men --in these terms marions ghost Mar 2013 #7
someone should speak to him about his room arely staircase Mar 2013 #9
Kind of what I was thinking. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #14
Yeah whut a Spongebob marions ghost Mar 2013 #17
huh? he is a slob! arely staircase Mar 2013 #19
He's married marions ghost Mar 2013 #25
wow - way tmi! arely staircase Mar 2013 #26
I don't know I'll ask em marions ghost Mar 2013 #30
well we know he had four minutes and 8 seconds free recently arely staircase Mar 2013 #36
I talked to him and he sent this pic marions ghost Mar 2013 #40
what? arely staircase Mar 2013 #41
OK so he cleaned up and is waiting for his doggie treat: marions ghost Mar 2013 #46
well done, the cleaning (or given the tight framing i still suspect a disaster off-sceen) arely staircase Mar 2013 #50
So glad you agree he makes good points marions ghost Mar 2013 #70
i am pretty sure that neither i nor other men are the intended target audience eom arely staircase Mar 2013 #71
OK so you're not a guy? marions ghost Mar 2013 #72
that was a joke, implying he was doing it to impress his girlfriend arely staircase Mar 2013 #73
I'll second that--date-raping is so ungentlemanly marions ghost Mar 2013 #74
"Never are we called into question or dismissed for our body shape or appearance." zappaman Mar 2013 #10
"Never are we called into question or dismissed for our body shape or appearance." NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #15
Read what I wrote above about choosing words better libtodeath Mar 2013 #18
Seizing on minor quibbles, focusing on them to the exclusion of the message, and nitpicking an issue redqueen Mar 2013 #29
Yes, such minor quibbles we have. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #45
I have been on DU since 2001 and have only 2 people on ignore MattBaggins Mar 2013 #51
Add me then too because I dont want a misogynist any where near me libtodeath Mar 2013 #55
I'm fairly certain I am not a misogynist MattBaggins Mar 2013 #65
Never are we called into question or dismissed for our body shape or appearance? arely staircase Mar 2013 #16
An ad from the 50s (?) when women were expected to shut up and cook dinner is your reply? libtodeath Mar 2013 #20
The 50s? I remember seeing ads just like that when I was a kid in the 80s. opiate69 Mar 2013 #22
lol arely staircase Mar 2013 #23
Is it wrong to laugh at this? LittleBlue Mar 2013 #21
my dad said he actually ordered the charles atlas book arely staircase Mar 2013 #24
Thank you, libtodeath. love_katz Mar 2013 #27
+++++ marions ghost Mar 2013 #32
Look at some of the replies here that fixate on a admitted poorly worded phrase libtodeath Mar 2013 #33
A bottomless ocean of sad. love_katz Mar 2013 #34
I'm sorry for being born male RantinRavin Mar 2013 #31
That is not the point. love_katz Mar 2013 #37
LOL Skittles Mar 2013 #76
Pardon me for having an outie. 99Forever Mar 2013 #35
Being silent fixes it? libtodeath Mar 2013 #39
Brow beating your allies is such a brilliant strategy. 99Forever Mar 2013 #42
Pretending it doesnt exist helps no one get beyond it. libtodeath Mar 2013 #43
Pretending to know what others think makes one a fool. 99Forever Mar 2013 #44
What you think is pretty obvious libtodeath Mar 2013 #47
Really? 99Forever Mar 2013 #48
Trying to pretend cultural sexism does not exist speaks for itself libtodeath Mar 2013 #49
Not even close. 99Forever Mar 2013 #52
Not you libtodeath Mar 2013 #56
Thank you for that. 99Forever Mar 2013 #59
Yeah,I can hold my head high libtodeath Mar 2013 #61
Well alrighty then. 99Forever Mar 2013 #63
Glad to see another guy speaking out Arcanetrance Mar 2013 #38
Never called names for being strong or assertive kudzu22 Mar 2013 #53
Another thought which has occurred to me... love_katz Mar 2013 #54
Thanks for this Kalidurga Mar 2013 #57
Look at posts on this thread libtodeath Mar 2013 #60
LOL I did Kalidurga Mar 2013 #66
You also have a bad case of reaction formation upaloopa Mar 2013 #69
What is it that makes a person want to tell upaloopa Mar 2013 #58
Sorry,saying that women should not be treated as inferior is a bad thing? libtodeath Mar 2013 #62
Maybe if I asked but I think inferring that we need your superior intellect because we can't think upaloopa Mar 2013 #67
Reaction formation upaloopa Mar 2013 #68
All forms of discrimination and injustice hurt us all. love_katz Mar 2013 #64
Wrong Springslips Mar 2013 #75
K&R. I think it would be helpful if you removed two sentences in your op. NCTraveler Mar 2013 #77

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
6. No man has ever been criticized for his "body shape or appearance"?
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:05 PM
Mar 2013

I am pretty sure that there are some DU men who would beg to differ.

libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
8. Fair enough and now thinking I worded that wrong but still does not change the fact
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:09 PM
Mar 2013

that we are not held to the same physical appearance stigmas that women are.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
12. The criticism of Chris Christie comes to mind
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:22 PM
Mar 2013

I wonder what the gender break-down is on that. As a woman I have been disappointed by it. I don't think a woman who is as overweight as he is would be elected as governor.

There is definitely a double standard in the expectations regarding appearances. More women than men wear make-up.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
17. Yeah whut a Spongebob
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:38 PM
Mar 2013

His mom should straighten him out....

He needs some Androgel ...quick!!! Combat that wussy Lo-T Metro streak.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
19. huh? he is a slob!
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:42 PM
Mar 2013

that place is a pig pen.

he will never find a girfreind - or boyfriend - with a place that.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
25. He's married
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:57 PM
Mar 2013

and that room is all torn up because they both have jobs and when she's home they only have time for sex. But she's so grateful that he isn't sexist and has the nerve to break the unspoken code and show his face on utube. So she doesn't mind the mess in the room at all. He's her idea of a brave guy.

How could you know that since of course you wouldn't watch it.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
26. wow - way tmi!
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 05:02 PM
Mar 2013

and tell them to clean that place up. i can think of a few free minutes he had when he could have been cleaning.

have these two been featured on Hoarders? Wwould they like to be?

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
30. I don't know I'll ask em
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 05:14 PM
Mar 2013

--they'll probably use the "no time, too much sex" defense. Then the Hoarders resident psychologist will straighten them out instead of Mom. Mom's off-duty.

And then the guy can get on with talking to men about sexism.

Good suggestion!

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
36. well we know he had four minutes and 8 seconds free recently
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 05:39 PM
Mar 2013

tell him to take the 8 seconds to shove that crap out of camara view and he will still have 4 minutes left to impress his girlfriend on the internets.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
50. well done, the cleaning (or given the tight framing i still suspect a disaster off-sceen)
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 07:11 PM
Mar 2013

and also well-done in terms of his message. i agree with virtually everything he said and where i don't i believe he at least expresses his views well enough to make me concider my own.

good message, well delivered.

smart, eloquent young man

now lets keep that place clean!

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
72. OK so you're not a guy?
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 01:54 PM
Mar 2013

Not the dude who gave him props for it?

I had that wrong...

Plenty of women would not like his message. It's for the open-minded of either sex IMO.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
73. that was a joke, implying he was doing it to impress his girlfriend
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 06:01 PM
Mar 2013

he is an eloquent young man with good values. our universities could use more like him and fewer dumbass, date-raping frat boys.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
74. I'll second that--date-raping is so ungentlemanly
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 06:41 PM
Mar 2013

They would like that definition of chivalry in Urban Dictionary--"chivalry is when you want to rape her but you don't" Ha ha--

Yes I'm sure this is fine with his wife. OK didn't get the joke. Now I do.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
15. "Never are we called into question or dismissed for our body shape or appearance."
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:34 PM
Mar 2013

Un-f***-ing believable. Do you even think before you post this stuff? Is this another response to the doors threads (which are ongoing)?

libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
18. Read what I wrote above about choosing words better
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:40 PM
Mar 2013

it does not dismiss the reality of how appearance vastly discriminates against women in comparison.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
29. Seizing on minor quibbles, focusing on them to the exclusion of the message, and nitpicking an issue
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 05:07 PM
Mar 2013

until people come to think the object of their obsessive focus is the actual issue, and then the discussion starts being about something else entirely, with multiple threads like 'Why won't people shut up about looks?' or 'What do looks matter? We should judge each other based on our personality!' or other similar unrelated stuff like that... it's kinda what they do. Derailment. It's effective.

Anyway, nice OP.

MattBaggins

(7,904 posts)
51. I have been on DU since 2001 and have only 2 people on ignore
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 07:11 PM
Mar 2013

I may for the first time add a few dozen.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
21. Is it wrong to laugh at this?
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:44 PM
Mar 2013


I can't believe people ever acted this way.



Maybe one day they'll say the same about my generation.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
24. my dad said he actually ordered the charles atlas book
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:50 PM
Mar 2013

it was all isometric excercises like pushing the palms of your hands together.

love_katz

(2,578 posts)
27. Thank you, libtodeath.
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 05:03 PM
Mar 2013

It takes some courage to speak out about sexism.

I have simply been blown away by all the hate expressed against women in recent times, and all the horrible, draconian laws that the Pukes and Tea Baggers are trying to get passed.

If men had to put up with this sh!t, there would be another civil war going on right now.

What many people forget is that ANY kind of oppression ultimately has a negative impact on us ALL.

The Ism brothers (class ism, sexism, racism, etc.), and the Phobia sisters (homophobia, hetero phobia, eros phobia, etc.) are long overdue for being starved out in the hearts and minds of us all, as well as death and burial with dishonor!

Injustice hurts ALL of us. It is way past time for it to all come to an end.

It is NOT right that the playing field is stacked most unfairly against everyone who is not: Wealthy; male; white; Christian.

How many of us fit ALL of those criteria? We need to stick together and realize who the REAL enemies are: the 1% who are the ruling elite, the Robber Barons reincarnated (or their descendants...they never really went away).

The problem is that we tend to take whatever privileges that society gives us for granted, or worse, are not even aware that those privileges exist.

The other thing...whenever we hear a bigoted thought in our head (and sexism is a form of bigotry), we need to ask ourselves, "Who's voice is that?", because in most cases, we first learned to think like that from someone else. When we figure out who first spoke those words to us, we need to ask ourselves, "Is that true for me? Is that part of my reality? And, do I want to continue to think like that?". Bigotry has to be yanked out by the roots...and that means finding out what soil those roots grew from.

to you, for your post.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
32. +++++
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 05:18 PM
Mar 2013
Let's see that point in BOLD:

"It is NOT right that the playing field is stacked most unfairly against everyone who is not: Wealthy; male; white; Christian.

How many of us fit ALL of those criteria? We need to stick together and realize who the REAL enemies are: the 1% who are the ruling elite, the Robber Barons reincarnated (or their descendants...they never really went away)."

libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
33. Look at some of the replies here that fixate on a admitted poorly worded phrase
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 05:27 PM
Mar 2013

as if that makes the reality of sexism and discrimination go away.
It is sad.

love_katz

(2,578 posts)
34. A bottomless ocean of sad.
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 05:35 PM
Mar 2013

How can we get bigotry and discrimination to go away, if we refuse to acknowledge that it exists?

Bless you, for your posts.

love_katz

(2,578 posts)
37. That is not the point.
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 05:42 PM
Mar 2013

The point is that bigotry and discrimination are real, and they hurt us ALL.

With that said, how can we end this harmful stuff, and create real justice for all, if we refuse to acknowledge that discrimination, and the privileges it creates for a few people exists?

I am not asking for people to apologize for something they can't help and don't control (i.e. being born male, or white, or even amongst the 1%).

However, discrimination sucks big time, and it is way past time for it to all come to an end. That won't happen if we get defensive, and refuse to even acknowledge that injustice exists.

libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
49. Trying to pretend cultural sexism does not exist speaks for itself
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 06:57 PM
Mar 2013

but keep on fooling yourself.
Carry on

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
52. Not even close.
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 07:15 PM
Mar 2013

I spoke to what I think in my first and second responses in this thread.

So, what does that make you look like?

kudzu22

(1,273 posts)
53. Never called names for being strong or assertive
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 07:17 PM
Mar 2013

How about for being weak and/or sensitive? Is it not also sexism to criticize men who do not fit the male stereotype?

love_katz

(2,578 posts)
54. Another thought which has occurred to me...
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 07:29 PM
Mar 2013

The ruling elite knows that the best way for them to stay on top is to use divide and conquer on the 99%.

One way they do that is to grant a few privileges to some groups, with the knowledge that those folks will then help the elite to keep the rest of us down, by sowing the fear that if groups on the lower economic and social parts of the ladder are allowed to rise, that somehow will result in losses to the groups which were granted a few privileges.

It is an ugly scheme, which keeps on working, because we have also collectively bought into the idea of scarcity (which the media colludes in...the idea being that their is only enough goodies to go around for the elite).

Unfortunately, if we keep reaching for the carrot (the fantasy that we can somehow join the elite), and flinching from the stick (which is, if you try to help anyone in the disadvantaged groups, that you deserve to be dragged downwards with them), then it is unlikely that anything will ever change.

Our society would transform enormously if we had REAL justice for all, and an economy that was based on sustainability, both for the life support systems of the earth, and sustainable for all who participate.

Instead, we have a rapacious and vicious social and economic system, based on violence against the many and obscene wealth for an elite few. The Robber Baron's are not the friends of anyone but themselves, even if they are good at fooling some slightly more advantaged groups in believing that is not true.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
57. Thanks for this
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 07:39 PM
Mar 2013

It should be obvious to everyone that women are indeed held to different standards. People have no problem getting up in their business. Mostly it's about having kids when women become adults people have no problem asking them if they are going to have children and if they don't why don't they. And after you have a kid they have no problem saying you should/shouldn't go back to work. Many people think it's their business how many kids a woman has as well. No one asks the man about his daycare arrangements or how soon he is going back to work or whether or not he even should go back to work while the children are still young.

People just accept this as the norm. Being a woman means never ever being right.

libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
60. Look at posts on this thread
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 07:43 PM
Mar 2013

so many men still wont admit it or want to take a few things and equivocate it.
Until we all face sexism and get rid of it we will never progress to where we need to be as a society.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
69. You also have a bad case of reaction formation
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:22 PM
Mar 2013

A cause of Reaction Formation is when a person seeks to cover up something unacceptable by adopting an opposite stance.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
67. Maybe if I asked but I think inferring that we need your superior intellect because we can't think
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 08:38 PM
Mar 2013

ourselves sucks IMHO.

Your OP castigates and is elitist and I think is worse that the thing you think we need to learn from you.

Maybe if you present it as a opinion like this "Here is my opinion" then we can agree or disagree.

Because that all it really is.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
68. Reaction formation
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:20 PM
Mar 2013

A cause of Reaction Formation is when a person seeks to cover up something unacceptable by adopting an opposite stance.

That is why you are doing this

love_katz

(2,578 posts)
64. All forms of discrimination and injustice hurt us all.
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 07:51 PM
Mar 2013

And, the current social standards and the ways that society's rewards are handed out perpetuates the discrimination and injustice.

If we want it to change...then we need to first acknowledge that unfair discrimination exists. Once it is acknowledged, then we can begin the work needed to change it.

The problem is that we are too often convinced (by those who actually benefit from the system continuing on unchanged) that we would lose anything worth having, by working towards justice for all.

The Robber Barons who benefit by the current system are not going to point out to us the lies and inaccuracies in what they pay the media to tell us. It is most unfortunate that we (unwittingly) cooperate in this process by being more concerned about what we think we might lose if there was justice for all, including making things right for groups that have been discriminated against.

It can help to look at what we might gain by working for justice for all.

And, yeah, that can take some time, a lot of introspection, some research, and the courage to face the truth, as well as a willingness to change.

I really believe that these issues, along with learning to live sustainably with the earth, are the most important survival issues that we face.

There won't be much chance at cooperation if we don't deal with eliminating unfair discrimination, and working together is desperately needed if humankind is to solve the many challenges facing us both now and in the near future.

I would love to see things change, where a woman can be valued for her talents and her basic self, instead of her value as an incubator for some man's sperm, or her looks, or any of the other sexist garbage which allows society to oppress us and treat us as disposable.

I would love to see things change, where everyone, men as well as women, had opportunities for good, satisfying jobs, instead of the military being one of the few options for training and schooling. I would like it if men could be accepted for their talents and basic selves, instead of for some Rambo-style blow-up doll kind of behavior and phony personality.

Bigotry hurts us all, social injustice hurts us all, and so does destruction of the environment and a refusal to share the earth fairly with the other beings who live here with us.

Denial does not fix any of that...and I am not referring to that river in Egypt.

Springslips

(533 posts)
75. Wrong
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 08:33 PM
Mar 2013

Obviously sexism effect women negatively. I am not saying that it doesn't exist or isn't a problem for woman. It does, is, and it needs to be discussed. But what you wrote is a big whooping distortion and doesn't help.

Never are we called into question or dismissed for our body shape or appearance


As a teenager I was skinny, thin. I had a high metabolism and no matter how much I ate I couldn't gain weight. My brother was likewise. We were often tormented for this. We were called wimps, sissies, skeletons, tooth pick because we didn't have the bodies I once heard, while standing around a corner, a discussion by classmates, women, joking how disgusting it would be to date me. At basketball games, mothers from the opposing team would call my brother and I "Ethiopians".

Fat men, although feminists (a group whose goal I support) seem to think get a pass, are equally made fun of. Both men and women skewer them, call them pigs, fat asses and other names. Short guys are looked as not being real men. Short, fat, bald guys are highly stereotyped in the media. See the verison commercial. Guys with glasses, not big in stature, weak, and unassuming are called nerds, dorks, geeks.

Never are we called names for being strong, intelligent and assertive.


Wrong.

Being strong and assertive will get you the names jerk, asshole, dickhead, douchebag. Men who hold power positions are called just as many names as woman who do. I, as a man, just see it as a part of being a leader. Many woman see it as an attach on their gender, not realizing that it is part of being in a position of power. Sure, they use 'bitch', which is a gender specific term and does imply a bit of sexism, but the main motivation is a reaction against assertiveness from the sensitive

paid less, bear children


Ok well you are right on bearing children. Woman, though, can choose that or not. They have more choices now than they did in yesteryear. The glass ceiling needs to go, yes.

stop fucking whining that woman have been maligned simply for being a woman and work to make it all equal.


Straw man logical fallacy. Not to many people here are complaining that woman are fighting for equal rights. Retort each argument you are against individually. Just lumping it all together, labeling it as a complaint against gender equality, and then refuting that doesn't logically counter individual argument.

So what if now and then we get the short end of something, it pales in comparison to what the Patriocracy has done


Depends on what you mean. Of course, equality mean that men lose the ill gotten gain of privilege, I am fine with that. So I can't buy a wife from the family next door, good! But lets say the fact there may be some reason to believe that boys are being stereotyped in school effecting their education. Should I just accept that because woman were deprived of the vote in the past? No. Just because woman were wronged in the past doesn't mean that issues effecting men should be ignored, when it isn't about a gain for men at the expense for woman.

war is male history


You thought shows an unsophistication. This is hugely stereotypical. It makes men sort of animal like, brutal, a missing link, based on the fact that Patriocracy put men in the lead and therefor it must be a male characteristic. That ignores history, psychopathy, power lust, paranoia, fear, the human need to create an other, alienate the other, and demonize the other--all faults shared by both genders. Patriocractic memes are spread by both men and woman. Both men and woman lead a historic charge to war. Both gain the spoils of it. Queen Elisabeth and Joan of Arch were warmongers. Queen Mary also dwelled in violence. Dissenters who were men were often bashed by woman during recent wars. You may say that was from Patriocracy, I agree, but Patriocracy stems from both genders. Both suffer from it. That is the point.

I think your entire post is going the wrong way. You distort via absolutes, either/or, straw man, appeal to stereotype, appeal to gender, and shaming. I think maybe you would make better, clearer points going at specific arguments you wish to refute here, than by making a general attach.
 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
77. K&R. I think it would be helpful if you removed two sentences in your op.
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 08:56 PM
Mar 2013

But I appreciate your thought, and taking the time to put them out there.

"Never are we called names for being strong,intelligent and assertive."

Thinking about that should give many, who don't want to listen, a good starting point for understanding.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»My take on sexism