Can you you be fired for holding the door open?

[HipChick]

My co-worker, being the gentleman that he is, held the door open for a woman in the office

He thought no more of it.

The woman later filed a sexual harassment charge against him, she claimed that when he opened the door for her, he positioned himself so that she was forced to come into contact with his own body..

I wasn't there, but had known and worked with man for a long time...I don't ever recall him being anything other than a gentleman,always talking proudly about his family....this incident broke him....he was eventually let go

I guarantee that man never opened another door for a female in his life..

And as for the woman? The woman stayed, she filed some other harassment charges too against other men...

[angstlessk]

1. Call me a sexist..(I am a woman) but I thing you are LIAR!

[HipChick]

5. You can think what you want, but having to see him struggle to find work

and support his family, when jobs were not too plentiful

[Ian David]

10. She's not lying, she's making an allegorical argument. n/t

[JI7]

2. in what you are describing the issue isn't whether he opened the door

the woman took issue with how he positioned himself to get close to her.

[Niceguy1]

89. Allegedly

According to the post she has filed other claims.... which raises a red flag. In HR often the people who submit multiple claims... SH, or even WC often are found to be false.

[JI7]

95. i don't know the details about the case but i'm referring to the suggestion it had to do with the

door and opening it.

[hlthe2b]

3. What flame baiting BS... The issue was apparently inappropriate contact, NOT OPENING THE DOOR

What is it you are hoping to gain from starting yet another round with this?

[RobertEarl]

24. Wait a minute

He opened the door and she walked through the formerly closed opening?

Why didn't she just say: after you?

It is evident that the woman in question is a temptress and is just looking to cause trouble. Yep.

[sharp_stick]

4. Please put benevolent sexism in the thread title

I don't want to trash all door related posts as someone may have an opinion on something door related like the proper way to align the beams on a garage door.

By adding the proper title I can properly screen the daily or weekly idiotic banter from my latest thread feed.

[Kurska]

6. Sexual harassment charges make me happy to be gay.

Something I'll probably never have to deal with.

I've heard of good ones and bad ones, straight guys and women just can't seem to keep their privates to themselves at work.

[JI7]

11. sexual harassment occurs among gays also

but i think most cases do involve men harassing women.

[geek tragedy]

31. Sexual attraction doesn't have to exist for there to be sexual harassment.

Straight men have sexually harassed gay men, etc. it's about the abuse of workplace authority moreso than hormones.

[Katashi_itto]

7. From now on I am locking doors on women. Militantly non-sexist

[Ian David]

8. I bet the bastard also left the toilet seat down, too.

Never leave the toilet seat down.

It sends the benignly sexist message to women that they're either too weak to put the seat back down, or too stupid to check if it's down before they sit on it.

Always leave the seat up.

In fact, sometimes I remove the seat altogether, so women know that I respect their ability to re-assemble a toilet, all by themselves.

[Kurska]

12. Okay I laughed by ass off n/t [phone]

[DBoon]

62. My dog taught me to leave the toilet seat down

There is nothing like lying in bed late at night, hearing the dog enthusiastically drink from the toilet, then hearing the dog walk over to your bed, knowing his next move will be to lick you face.

[Niceguy1]

90. Thanks

for the laugh!

[Demo_Chris]

112. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. :)

[MattBaggins]

9. If he touched her while doing it he was fired with cause

[RobertEarl]

26. Wait, whoa

He was standing there and she walked past him?

Why didn't she refuse? I've done it many times... said... you first.

But NO. She is just looking to cause problems. Not all women are angels. Nope.

[MattBaggins]

27. I said if

That is a keyword. IF

You chose without knowing any actual facts to blame the woman.

[RobertEarl]

43. Facts? The man was fired. That's the only fact.

What IF she wanted to brush up against him? What IF she just said no? Why did she move towards him? Do women always do what men ask them to do? No. What "if" she was just looking to cause trouble? You do know not all women are angelic, right?

[MattBaggins]

53. This seems a lot like a friend of a friend of my cousin heard from this girl kind of story

I took all that could be taken from the story and said if he intentionally touched her and this is true, he would be let go with just cause. Not making any statements about the man. Just legal aspect.

You want to go into the character of the woman. I do not know why.

[RobertEarl]

59. The man has been accused, his character questioned

And I see more than one side to the story.

It seems like if she walked towards him then she might have intentionally touched him. It does happen. Not all women are afraid of men. And I wished none were.

[MattBaggins]

60. Do you believe this story is real?

I have my doubts.

[sibelian]

107. Why?

[boston bean]

29. Women were just told for three days from men on DU

and some women, that it would be rude to not be grateful for the act of kindness.

[RobertEarl]

36. Not bad advice to be grateful for kindness n/t

[boston bean]

39. Most women aren't grateful

to have a man stand in front of a door while holding it open so you can brush up against them.

If this was happenig all the time to the woman, and if this 'story' is even true, I can see why she would begin to feel uncomfortable.

You just said women shouldn't be rude, so that's what she did, she wasn't rude, but she was uncomfortable and did have a right to have it addressed by the company.

[RobertEarl]

49. I did not say women shouldn't be rude

Why would you make a mistake like that? Are you looking for trouble?

But at least you do question "...if this 'story' is even true..." so you get a pass.

Because I figure you might next admit that the woman maybe, possibly. could have, we don't know any better, was looking for trouble?

[geek tragedy]

32. So, you were there or is it just your instinct to blame the woman? nt

[boston bean]

34. if the story is true, the man might have been standing in front

of the door holding it open partially blocking her entrance. Instead of standing on the outside of the door holding it open by the handle.

I can see where that would make someone uncomfortable if it was happening day in and day out.

[geek tragedy]

99. I love how this supposed gentleman has no concept of personal space. nt

[RobertEarl]

38. Just looking at all sides. n/t

[geek tragedy]

74. Factually false. nt

[doc03]

13. What the hell has inspired all these threads on

holding doors open all of a sudden?

[loli phabay]

15. for real, what does it mean if you give your seat up to a pregnant women.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. That is one way to put it

[geek tragedy]

22. That's not what happened, but heaven forbid anti-feminist hysteria

get reeled back.

[boston bean]

30. That is just not true.

[Orrex]

33. That's a gross misrepresentation

She and I were on different sides of that discussion, but at no time did she imply that men are sexist pigs.

There's enough heat in those threads without you jumping in to fan the flames, thanks.

[NutmegYankee]

44. It's how I perceived it.

Like many other male DUer's, I'm tired of the Misandry. Some of this stuff is just so over the top that we have to speak up.

[Orrex]

46. Well, you're free to speak

But you do yourself no favors by misrepresenting the behaviors that you claim to be opposing.

[BainsBane]

37. WRONG

No radical feminist insisted anything. This a completely manufactured controversy.

[NutmegYankee]

40. Oh look, someone likes Capslock.

*Yawn* I'm over the witch hunts. META is dead.

[BainsBane]

47. Yet you're not over fabricating

fake controversies. Why is that? The witch hunt is yours. I am simply pointing about facts. It's unfortunate you find the truth so boring compared to spreading false rumors about fellow DUers.

Here is where the door meme first arose, for others not familiar with the con game that's being run through these door threads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022511124

[MattBaggins]

28. A poster asked what a term meant

another poster gave a quick off the cuff explanation and the misogynists have been using it as an excuse to construct straw men all weekend.

[Orrex]

35. Yes, because it's misogynist to hold a different opinion than certain other people hold

[MattBaggins]

45. Take it up with post number 14

[Orrex]

48. Already done

Still, his misrepresentations don't justify broad-brush accusations of misogyny.

[NutmegYankee]

51. Are you accusing me of being a mysoginist?

[MattBaggins]

55. No I don't even know you

Just providing a fair counter point to the "bunch of radical feminists" description.

[BainsBane]

52. Who said that?

No one. Not a soul.

[NutmegYankee]

56. Post 28.

I've been so active in Women's rights, mainly access to abortion and contraception, that I'm stunned that I can be called a misogynist. I actually escorted woman into clinics past nut jobs. But I'm still a guy, and when the piling on starts on guys, I get annoyed. I'm tired of these gender fights that have been raging for weeks.

[BainsBane]

57. No, that person is recounting the history of this meme

That is exactly what happened. I said the same thing, without calling people misogynists. I don't think that advances the discussion and it is probably not accurate for many.
NO ONE complained about doors. That is the key point.
So if you get tired of gender disputes, don't feed this shit. No radical feminist complained about doors. In fact, no woman has said she gives a fuck about the door thing.

[MattBaggins]

58. Not calling you a misogynist

as I am sure you don't really mean to call them all radical feminists.

[BainsBane]

61. particularly when NO ONE

complained about doors, ever. Seabeyond simply gave it as an example of benevolent sexism when someone asked.

[NutmegYankee]

65. Actually some have complained about doors in other threads.

I've been sitting back and reading for quite a while.

[BainsBane]

66. then you can provide links

because I haven't seen it. You seem awfully interested in a controversy you claim to despise.

[NutmegYankee]

68. K.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2525215

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2525513

[BainsBane]

70. That was like the fifth thread on the door issue

and you found two women who said they didn't like it well into the discussion. That was not the origins of the door meme. That began long before in the boob thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022511124

So through all of these dozens of threads on doors, you found two women who said they didn't care for it, when ASKED. Again, this is a manufactured controversy.

[NutmegYankee]

72. Really, no kidding?

Let's look at my post title one more time:

"Actually some have complained about doors in other threads."

I found some, and they were in ANOTHER thread.


And no, it's not manufactured. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022511124#post19 I read that thread too.

[BainsBane]

75. She gave it as an example

She cited an article. She didn't say you were a sexist pig for holding the door open. Good lord.

[NutmegYankee]

80. It implies that that act of politeness is sexism.

And sooner or later you are going to have to accept that good people may just disagree with you.

[BainsBane]

81. what that research does

is establish a link between traditional views of women and violence. Opening a door need not even be chivalrous. It can simply be polite. That is how I see it. Now you've looked hard to find two whole women on the site who object to having a door held open, which btw doesn't include Seabeyond. So if you want to hunt for reasons to be offended, no one is gong to stop you. But you're not getting any sympathy from me.

[NutmegYankee]

84. We're not going to agree

"Recent debate about whether acts of "benevolent sexism" harm women are addressed in a new commentary published in Psychology of Women Quarterly (published by SAGE on behalf of the Society for the Psychology of Women, Division 35 of the American Psychological Association"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111004121314.htm

Sorry, it's over the top to quite a few DUers.

[BainsBane]

88. You said you were offended that women complained about opening doors

and you accused radical feminists of stirring up the issue. That clearly is far from the case. This is a manufactured issue. Your own evidence demonstrates as much.

[NutmegYankee]

93. Now THAT is a gross misrepresentation.

I'm offended that some are implying that polite activities such as opening a door or helping lift a heavy box are sexism. It is a radical position. It is not a manufactured issue. It struck a nerve in many other DUers and we have been collectively saying "BULLSHIT" since.

And I'm still going to say BULLSHIT no matter what you call me or imply about my motives.

[BainsBane]

97. fine, say bullshit

but to insist any woman on DU made that a major deal is completely false.

[NutmegYankee]

103. I never insisted that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2526272

You keep changing what I said.

[BainsBane]

104. LOL

You self deleted your post. Really, dude? Come on. If you don't have the courage of your convictions, what's the point?

[NutmegYankee]

110. I was referring to your statement in post 88

"You said you were offended that women complained about opening doors"

That's not what I'm offended about.

[BainsBane]

111. Well then I'm really confused

because all of these threads are about doors.

[BainsBane]

76. in fact

She went on to say that she appreciates a door being held open for her and she reciprocates, just like all polite people. Now what about that makes you so upset?

[NutmegYankee]

63. Not all feminists are radical. And not all men are sexist pigs.

But You'd never figure that out from DU these last few weeks. I got offended with the "Benevolent Sexism" discussion because it's taking good manners and politeness that men were raised with and making them shameful. It's completely over the top. Even the examples from the article were goofy.

"Benevolent sexism motivates chivalrous acts that many women may welcome, such as a man's offer to lift heavy boxes or install the new computer. While the path to benevolent sexism may be paved with good intentions, it reinforces the assumption that men possess greater competence than women, whom benevolent sexists view as wonderful, but weak and fragile."

I'm a 275 lb guy, so yeah, I can lift heavier objects than most women. It's physics, not sexism! And I've fixed computers for both men and women, usually those of baby boomer age and older. But despite the truth in that, I'll be accused of ageism in 3 2 1...


It's gotten old.

[BainsBane]

73. Now you know how this began

become unoffended.

[NutmegYankee]

78. I already knew. Note the title of post 19 of that thread.

And no, I won't become unoffended. It is offensive. Period.

[BainsBane]

79. So the existence of social science research offends you?

Wow, you sound like some congressmen in a particular political party. Better strip the NSF from funding lest more of that research comes to light.

[NutmegYankee]

83. Really?

Going for hidden post number 16 I take it? Liberals can disagree on topics such as this. No need to implicitly call me a Republican or imply that a SCIENTIST (Mechanical Engineer) is against the National Science Foundation.

[BainsBane]

91. the post you objected to

Is one in which she cited research. Now you can assert that research is weak, or however you want to characterize it, but to say that amounts to "radical feminists" on DU taking offense at men opening doors is clearly false. You are not telling the truth about the origins of this controversy.

[NutmegYankee]

94. So no apology for calling me a republican?

Ah. We're done here.

[BainsBane]

98. I didn't call you a Republican

but if I had, I would apologize. You obviously like to find offense where none is given.

[NutmegYankee]

101. ...

"Wow, you sound like some congressmen in a particular political party. Better strip the NSF from funding lest more of that research comes to light. "

It's fucking obvious what is implied.

[BainsBane]

102. sounding like is not being

I never even thought you were a Republican. I was merely pointing to the absurdity of your equating a quote about some research, which may or may not be bullshit, with a so-called "radical feminist" making a big deal about doors.

[MattBaggins]

77. I completely agree with the section you qouted

It didn't bother me at all. It's not even slightly radical.

[NutmegYankee]

85. Obviously we disagree.

That does happen often on a political board.

[MattBaggins]

86. You shouldn't call them radical feminists and rage at them for

seeing cultural norms differently.

[NutmegYankee]

87. Poor choice of words on my part.

I'm sick of threads implying that everything a man does is sexist. It's gotten old. It was so bad and had gotten so tiring that it was the straw that broke META's back.

[opiate69]

92. Considering there is a subset of feminists who self-identify as such,

Who also happen to be the ones pushing this ideology, I think your word choice is apt.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism

[BainsBane]

41. Here is where it began

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022511124

Seabeyond merely gave holding doors open as an example of benevolent sexism. No one said they found it objectionable.

So these posts are part of an ongoing effort to trivialize feminists and demands for equal treatment of women. NO ONE gives a fuck about doors but those who have manufactured a crisis for their cynical, manipulative agenda.

[opiate69]

69. What a disingenuous load of shit.

Obviously, some of you - including the author of the study in the post you keep linking to - feel that "benevolent sexism" is objectionable. Then, when asked what exactly benevolent sexism actually is, SB listed a bunch of behaviors, and holding doors for women not only was on the list, but was the first example. It`s really quite appropriate to deduce that, if benevolent sexism is objectionable, and holding doors open for women is an example of benevolent sexism, then it must be objectionable. Q.E.D.

[defacto7]

96. Disruption.

And people have fallen for it.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. yeah, if you're a flight attendant on an airplane at 35,000 feet.

I kid. Pressure differential, you can't just open the door.

Or so I'm told.

[rustydog]

17. Probably not, but if onefollows your post

You can be fired if ones door-opening was done solely to force a member of the opposite sex to come into contact with you would be. isn't it a form of groping?

[Vinnie From Indy]

19. I call bullshit!

I think you made this up. I know you will vociferously deny it, but I still think you are lying!

Cheers!

[LittleBlue]

20. This is why I always walk into the room on inswinging doors

while pulling them open, not pushing. I don't want to push and stand in a narrow doorway while she's forced to squeeze by me. It never occurred to me that this could be used in a sexual way.

Bizarre that a sexual harassment suit resulted from such a simple mistake.

[geek tragedy]

21. Cool story, sis. nt

[BainsBane]

54. That's internet sis. nt

[bluedigger]

23. So, your premise is complete bullshit, then?

"this incident broke him....he was eventually let go"

That is not being fired for sexual harassment. At all.

[redqueen]

106. ...

[snooper2]

25. Yes, you can..

I hold the door based on specific rules that everyone else here are apparently oblivious too.

Good Weather- 3 second rule- all humans
one one-thousand, two one-thousand, three one-thousand.

I do the calculations in real time in as I grasp the handle to see if I should hold it open.


Anybody who needs help with opening a door in any way 5 seconds..

inclement weather add 3 seconds to above rules---




But if I don't know them, they need ID to get into the building or yes we may DIE or I could be fired

[BainsBane]

42. The origins of the door meme

So people know exactly how this started.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022511124

[boston bean]

50. All those poor suffering women that he doesn't open doors for any longer.

I weep for him.

[DBoon]

64. Yes

If you work in a secure facility with strict rules that everyone must swipe their badge before entry, then allowing anyone to tailgate could result in disciplinary action.

This assumes your initial post was not a troll

[Luminous Animal]

67. Hahahaha.

[LaydeeBug]

71. This doesn't pass the smell test. I'll stand corrected for NAMING NAMES

Until then, this sounds like the "poor wittle girlie who couldn't have a lemonade stand because of the mean tax man" when it is usually the right wing phony threatening her with it.

[Evoman]

82. Goddamn radical feminists.

I have a similar story...get your kleenex ready, because it's a sad story about how I was accused of sexual harrassment.

So I'm a little horny...it happens, I'm a man and I have needs. Anyways, what I do is make a door costume and then have my shlong painted silver, to act as a door handle.

So I go to work, and pretend to be one of the front doors, and when a lady approaches, I get ready for the unit-grabbing time of my life. But no, she screams and doesn't believe that I'm a real door, because apparently, doors don't have faces...or arms...or silver colored meat sausage. But does she just use one of the other 4 doors to come in? No. She instead calls security and has the nerve to accuse me of sexual harassment! When there are four other doors to come in!

Instead, she decides to ruin my life. Okay, I didn't get fired right away. And she was moved into the basement while I got her old office. But still, when an audit was done a year later and it was found out that I was dead last in sales and first in stapler stealing, I was let go first. I can't but help feel like she had something to do with it. Because she just couldn't use one of the other doors.

I'm still broken to this very day. I find little satisfaction in my CEO position, because I know any day one of the dolls who works for me could level a fake accusation of sexual harassment. Fuck it's tough being a man some days.

[BainsBane]

100. :)

[redqueen]

105. !

Pure gold!

This place has gone

[Iggo]

108. Am I gonna hafta put "door" on my trashed word list?

I mean come on, people. Jeez.

[BainsBane]

109. No kidding

[Go Vols]

113. I will open the door for you when we all get to the poor house

This door shit seems trivial to me.