Is Bush Evil or Just a stupid pawn?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

Last edited Mon Mar 18, 2013, 08:04 PM - Edit history (1)

11 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	George Bush was a stupid pawn led by evil Cheney?
	3 (27%)
	George Bush was equal evil partners with Cheney?
	7 (64%)
	Stupid and Evil Inherently
	1 (9%)
	Stupid and Evil (Cheney pulled him in)
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[MarianJack]

1. I say evil AND stupid!

PEACE!

[Berlum]

2. + 1

There you have it.

[99Forever]

11. Yep.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[baldguy]

13. No reason why he can't be both.

+1

[Laura PourMeADrink]

22. Bush can be evil by not doing anything to stop Cheney's actions but too stupid to actually be the

impetus behind it?

[RedCappedBandit]

27. yup

[lunatica]

3. The entire Bush family is evil

They have a legacy of evil, long before Cheney gained power. George Bush, at the very least, is a nasty sadistic smirking frat boy.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

5. Yes. But as far as Iraq is concerned....I just can't see him being involved enough - or rather give

a shit enough to actually come up with the idea to invade. I think he was talked into it and he trusted everyone else. I wonder now if he really hates Cheney for forcing it to happen. To me, it was more like he thought it was cool to act like a prez, but never had any intellect behind it.

[lunatica]

9. I believe that before he was anyone else's pawn he was his family's pawn

Without his family and their contacts the Supreme Court wouldn't have selected him. His father kept him out of Vietnam, and even covered for his going awol. He was the child of privilege who had a role to play and he played it. He was even given passing grades at Yale, his father's Alma Mater and he was inducted into Skull and Bones only because of who his father and grandfather were.

We see him as a fuck up. But he was far from it. He came closer to achieving the goal of his family than even his father, with all his CIA power. He was very effective. If we ever survive him it'll take generations. Now they want Jeb to come in and finish it because George was just the scapegoat, set up by his own parents.

[Egalitarian Thug]

39. Read Richard Clarke's first book.

Invading Iraq was at the top of his agenda on day one.

[graham4anything]

4. W is the 3rd of so far 4 Bush's to run and 2 who won the Presidency

Prescott wanted it
41 achieved it
43 got seated
Jeb wants to win and/or be seated

George w.Bush is NOT stupid. It was a persona created and it worked

Whether or not Cheney was his own person, manipulated things, or not, is 100% irrelevant IMHO, becuase it suited George Herbert Walker Bush41 and his own 3 step ahead plan
(only outmatched by the not counted on Barack Obama.)

Same supporting actors in their play.
They are all showing up doing their role

And Jeb looks stronger to be the republican nominee every hour that passes.

The question really should be-
How Stupid are the voters, the ones in the Bush's own party, and the ones who might
just think and say the Bush/Nader meme that both parties are the same

and then the wheels on the Bush's bus will once again go round and round and round

It could have been 53 straight years and counting, but now it's just 4 and a few months
so we have to 100% vote for the democratic party, and only in the rare instances someone who would 100% when a 60th vote is needed (ala Bernie and Angus) caucus with the democratic party. (while leaving them free to vote any way they choose when their vote doesn't matter).

imho

[Laura PourMeADrink]

7. As for GB not being stupid...you reminded me of seeing some clips here from when he

was governor. No country boy thick accent. No bumbling around.

But, if it is a persona they created - he certainly never went off script. Deserves an Oscar.

You are so right about stupid voters. The minute it was proven there were no WMD, I would have bet my life savings that Bush would have been impeached and he went on to "win." Or at least stay close enough to make a rig believable.

[graham4anything]

15. Paul Waldman's book "Fraud" about W showed how they did it again and again

How they created the Bush is stupid, doesn't have the brains, therefore, as someone without brains, he couldn't possibly look someone in the eye and lie, because he wasn't smart enough and he was as they also created, a man of integrity.

and it worked.

and now Jeb is poised to be nominated as the sane republican in a sea of insanity candidates
as if the others are and have been all on the Bush family payroll to be so out there, that they
will have people begging for Jeb

[Laura PourMeADrink]

16. Well...supposedly Romney was the "sane" choice...the one who could win in a general. Do

you think the wingnuts would go along with this idea again? Given CPAC picked Rand Paul?

If Bush was a created character - and really is smart, how can you explain how he doesn't seem to care that the whole country thinks he's a an idiot? You would have to say he is that much of a Machiavellian that the greater neocon always was and is still more important than his ruined reputation from the ridicule of millions.

[graham4anything]

17. No, because no one would have beaten President Obama in 2012, which is why Jeb did not run

It had to be 2016.

As I keep saying with those who put President Obama down, think long term eye on the prize, not instant gratification.

For the family it is the long time goal and the decades in the future.
Why would W care at all what people think of him? He isn't running, and Jeb can play the
"I am not W" version and have people separate the two.

The whole inner family argument is also manufactured, like the fact that he said he was a Cowboy, which also wasn't true, and the ranch itself was a prop.

But Mitt never was going to win, neither were the others(any others), same as McCain was never going to win in 2008, so much so, that Hillary would have easily won had she been the nomination (so those saying Hillary lost, she never lost the General election, both her and Obama easily would have won in 2008.

But who would have thought Jeb is a serious contender, and the way the republican rules have been setting up in 2016, all fits for Jeb. (especially that the insane branch of their party is just as strong. Rand will never get the nomination, nor would he be able to even win 100 electoral votes. It would be a landslide. Maybe 80- 20%.(But he won't win the nomination).

[jerseyjack]

6. Last year, I would have voted that Little Georgie was just plain stupid.

I heard an interview about his running for Congress in the 1970's. His speeches were in perfect, Yale English. His facts were in order.

He Lost.

What he learned is that you talk and act like a rube and you win.

There are times when, out of microphone range, he will still speak Yale.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

10. Yes, I was just remembering that too. But, how could he keep that rube act up?

Surely, he would have slipped out of character at some point in 8 years. I never saw him do that. Or, you would think in his second 4 years, when he became such a laughing stock it would have propelled him to show the Yalie in him.

[Arugula Latte]

30. I think he also fried out his brains quite a bit with drugs & alcohol

in the years since he ran for Congress. But, yeah, also part of it was a good-ol-boy act to appeal to the dumbasses of the dumbmasses.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

42. Yes, I agree. If it was a dumb act then somehow it became more - self medicating. nt

[annabanana]

8. More and more since he's been out.. I'm thinking stupid.

When he was doing the MOST evil things, he had the mein of a small boy, puffed up by flattery, strutting around like a child.

Since he's been out he's been completely disengaged. I don't think he liked being President and he sure as hell wasn't very good at it.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

12. Agree. I picture him thinking..."This is just too hard, I thought it'd be easy just walzing around

telling people what to do."

I saw part of the HBO special on Cheney. He ran the show on Iraq for sure. But, you would think if Papa Bush was against the idea, then he could have told his son to not listen to Cheney. He must not have. So we can assume the father was in the thick of things too.

Or maybe all our theories about him drunk a lot were really true and Papa asked Cheney to take over and cover for him?

[Thinkingabout]

14. George W probably thought he could outdo Dad, claimed Saddam "threatened my daddy".

No regret for his actions shows absolute evil on W's part. Almost 4500 have lost their lives and many more injured and he doesn't have any regrets, I doubt his sincerity in "born again Christian" status, lied to American citizens about his reasons to invade Iraq. He is a war criminal, maybe water boarding him and Cheney until they admit they lied.

[dembotoz]

18. no option for both

[WinkyDink]

19. The expression "dumb like a fox" comes to mind. A psychopathic fox.

[hobbit709]

20. Both, but the evil was just small scale on his part.

The institutional grand scale evil was Cheney.

[dmosh42]

21. Two war criminals!

[jmowreader]

23. He can't be both?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

24. Yes, in some ways. too late to add both as a choice.

[LeftInTX]

25. Bush isn't stupid

Harvard MBA.
He might not be as bright as Clinton or Obama, but there was plenty of opposition prior to the invasion. He would have had to been really dumb to overlook it. He chose to ignore it.

I think he believed the war would be short like the 1991 Gulf War. I think he thought it would be fairly easy.

Colin Powell had told him that Iraq would shatter like crystal, but I don't think Bush quite believed it or understood it. Bush probably thought if we got rid of Saddam, then everything would work out. Bush didn't have military experience - Rumsfeld did and Cheney had been defense secretary, so he believed them and brushed aside Powell's concerns.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

32. So maybe it's not dumb or evil - but disengaged and not involved. He always wanted

the easy way since things were always handed to him. Intellectually lazy

[Kalidurga]

26. I think he is more stupid than evil.

Despite his credentials which we don't know for sure if he earned them or if he was given them due to connections. Or, he might be a fine actor that never broke character for the 8 years he was CEO err President of the United States. Either way he seems pretty stupid, in that he has little to no wisdom to his name. He surrounded himself with people that he thought were smarter than he is. But, really they were just power hungry and he wasn't wise enough to see the difference between sheer power hunger and smarts, so that is kinda stupid.

But, I am not sure about the evil at all, he did a lot of things that are evil. But, the motive, not so sure that makes him evil or more of a child. I believe he was motivated by wanting to make his family proud. The war stuff was from being around power hungry people that made him a puppet and he didn't have the ability to get rid of those people or speak out against them. So, he really seems more like a child that had nuclear capabilities.

[ruffburr]

28. I had to pass as i belive it is both-

A dumbass being led by an evil ass, While the dumbass soaks up the evil, The evil ass steals his soul.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

34. 100% agree with your assessment

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

29. I don't think he was quite as evil as Cheney

but he had a sociopathic bent. I remember what they said about his attitudes towards the poor when he was at Harvard and argued with the professors as well as how he mocked Carla Faye Tucker when she was on death row and pleaded for her life during his Governorship..

[TroglodyteScholar]

31. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

One can be both evil and stupid.

[David Zephyr]

33. Laura, where' the "both" option?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

35. i got reamed one time for adding a choice after the poll was active. Scars

still there. haha. But, will add

[David Zephyr]

38. Now I voted!!! Thanks.

OX

[DevonRex]

36. Bush is evil and used Cheney as the fall guy. You think a Bush ever takes the fall?

Sorry, but I never did buy the ruse that W. was dumb. He hammed it up and had way too much fun with the role. Then wound up showing up his father, getting Saddam, making the family loads of money in defense contracts. Who knows what they got out of oil there?

Cheney? He's a nobody compared to them. A willing nobody who could play the part and be rewarded for it. Who knows exactly how. But they've also got leverage over him.

ETA: when I say fall, I mean publicly. The people put more blame on Cheney than Bush. That's why nothing was pursued. Who wants to prosecute the VP when it's supposed to be the Pres in charge? That's kind of embarrassing for the country. So it all just went away quietly.

[The Second Stone]

37. They are not mutually exclusive

Bush is stupid and evil.

[Raine]

40. I think he's a stupid person who willingly allowed himself to

be controlled by total evil.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

41. you are so smart...this says it all

[Initech]

43. Both. A stupid pawn who allowed truly evil people to do truly evil things.

[tblue37]

44. Yes. nt