General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAs religion declines in the U.S., Jesus freaks move to the third world and cause tremendous damage.
http://www.alternet.org/belief/you-wouldnt-believe-how-fast-americans-are-losing-their-religion-fundamentalists-have-plan?paging=offYou Wouldn't Believe How Fast Americans Are Losing Their Religion -- But the Fundamentalists Have a Plan
As their power declines in America, fundamentalists are moving to developing countries not as far along the secularization curve. And they're causing massive damage.
March 15, 2013 |
Sometime last year, the US quietly passed a milestone demographers had long been predicting: for the first time in its history, this country is no longer majority Protestant. Fewer than 50 percent of Americans now identify as Protestant Christians of any denomination.
This change has come on surprisingly recently, and from a historical perspective, with breathtaking speed. As recently as 1993, almost two-thirds of Americans identified as Protestants, a number that had remained stable for the several preceding decades. But sometime in the 1990s, the ground started to shift, and it's been sliding ever since. Whether it's the "mainline" Protestant denominations like Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans or Presbyterians, or the independent evangelical, charismatic and fundamentalist sects, the decline is happening across the board. The rise of so-called megachurches, like Rick Warren's Saddleback Church in California or Mark Driscoll's Mars Hill in Seattle, represents not growth, but consolidation.
...
But the footsoldiers of fundamentalism haven't been entirely idle these past few decades. As their power declines in America and Europe, they're increasingly moving abroad, to developing countries not as far along the secularization curve, where they often find a more receptive audience.
The first example is Uganda, where the most despicable kind of American culture warriors have run amok with horrifying results. Since 2009, the country's parliament has been debating an "Anti-Homosexuality Bill," which among other things would establish a crime of "aggravated homosexuality," punishable by life imprisonment or death.
As people become wise to the bullshit here in the U.S., the fundies are scrambling for a new base of people who are less educated and more desperate.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Handing tickets out for god..."
Sir Elton John.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)to Elton Hercules John.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)They are losing Central and South America, they are in the decline in this country.
The only problem is, they need the money from the U.S. to survive.
No donations from U.S. Catholics, no funding for Rome to be selling Heaven to the un-churched in other parts of the world.
Initech
(100,054 posts)sigmasix
(794 posts)"There's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over"
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)I guess this milestone wouldn't have anything at all to do with a surge of Catholic immigrants?
pew survey on religion
Protestant - 51.3%
Catholic - 23.9%
mormon - 1.7%
jewish - 1.7%
muslim - 0.6%
religious unaffiliated - 5.8%
religions - 85% (not including buddhist, hindu or even unitarians (0.7%)
secular unaffiliated - 6.3%
agnostic (whatever the heck that means) - 2.4%
atheist - 1.6%
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)It's that we are a truly diverse population now. There are a lot more non-religious people. My children are atheists. But many other people are religious, and there are still many protestant Christians. But there are many people of different faiths. We are a truly diverse culture now. It's a beautiful thing. Many religious Americans believe in their faith but are also scientifically minded. There are many protestant Christians like the evangelical Christians who are interested in going oversees. My father who is evangelical Christian mentions to me all the time that he thinks people from developing countries who still practice mystical religions are more open to receiving miracles than Americans.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)And did you check the date on that by the way
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Here is the link to the latest...
http://www.pewforum.org/Unaffiliated/nones-on-the-rise.aspx
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)unfortunately I had faith in google when I searched for "religious affiliation 2012" to take me to the latest results.
I note that there is, apparently NOT an increase in Catholics, which I had expected there to be.
But I also note that they say that many of the unaffiliated, who are growing, seem to be religious rather than atheist/agnostic
"However, a new survey by the Pew Research Centers Forum on Religion & Public Life, conducted jointly with the PBS television program Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, finds that many of the countrys 46 million unaffiliated adults are religious or spiritual in some way. Two-thirds of them say they believe in God (68%). More than half say they often feel a deep connection with nature and the earth (58%), while more than a third classify themselves as spiritual but not religious (37%), and one-in-five (21%) say they pray every day. In addition, most religiously unaffiliated Americans think that churches and other religious institutions benefit society by strengthening community bonds and aiding the poor."
It just seems that many of them a) do not wish to give up a few hours every Sunday going to a boring church service and b) do not wish to give their money to a church.
But I guess also when it says they "believe in God" that does not mean "believe in the god of the Bible" and "feeling a deep connection with nature and the earth" is more like Native American religion or some new age religion than Christianity.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)You may think we're moving towards an non-religious society, but demography says that's an uphill battle.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)RainDog
(28,784 posts)than are moving to a religious belief. This has been going on for quite some time and people looking at the data think it has to do with the identification of religion with right wing political groups. The churches have brought this upon themselves by attempting to force their views as national policy. This is cited as THE most important reason people have decided to leave a particular religion.
Just because someone claims no belief - that doesn't mean their children will do the same. But it doesn't matter, because those claiming no religious belief are coming from various religious beliefs.
From 2009 -
http://www.usnews.com/news/religion/articles/2009/03/13/leaving-religion-behind-a-portrait-of-nonreligious-america
In the Northeast, those who are now claiming "no religion" has increased 300% in the last 20 years and is equal to a quarter of the population in the northeast. Previously the west and pacific coasts have been the strongholds of "no religion," but that is changing across the nation.
With as many Americans identifying as "no religion" as there are mainline Christians, Jews, and Mormons in the United States combined, the Trinity College survey has helped create a portrait of an exploding secular tradition that reveals commonalities beyond lack of belief.
This demographic includes Latino American immigrants. Children of immigrants who have been here for a generation are following the same trend as others in the age cohort and political identification (the majority of whom lean toward voting for Democrats by huge percentage over Republicans, but they consider themselves independents, politically.
This move away from religious identification is hurting the Republican Party - but they and their right wing religious friends who tried to claim they speak for god are to blame - the reason people are leaving religion is because of this political association.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)minded atheists who is always right about everything to get revenge and oppress religious people. I certainly hope this is not the case. People, myself included, will resist atheist oppression just as much as we resisted conservative Christian oppression. I personally think it is a beautiful thing that we have a more diverse culture. We have all denominations of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hindu, Buddhism, agnostic, atheist and just about everything else you can think of. What we should be celebrating is that we are a truly diverse culture at long last.
siligut
(12,272 posts)I do think that some religions are communicating that their people will be oppressed, but this tends to be cults who use the "others are out to get us" issue to keep control.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)regarding this issue.
not worth the bother to acknowledge the attempt at scare tactics bullshit.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)siligut
(12,272 posts)Not really a "concern", but trying to communicate that there should be one?
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Break out the fainting couches and pass the smelling salts!
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)but I can't help think that as the number of people not affiliated with churches rises, belief in deities will eventually fall, although there may be a lag time. The Internet is one factor that is increasing non-belief, in my opinion, because it provides a message board for others to note that they, too, fail to see clothing on the emperor.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Politicians should not be writing law based on religion. We have separation of church and state for that. But why do we have to force our belief or lack of belief on anybody? Why can't religious and non-religious people just learn to leave people alone and let them believe or not believe whatever the they want? I am proud of my two free thinking atheist children and my agnostic husband. I myself don't worry about whether there is a god or not. It is not important to how I live my life. But I am Buddhist. I love going to Chenrezig compassion for all meditation service. I find it very peaceful and calming. Are non religious people simply going to replace the conservative Christians and carry on the tradition of intolerance and bullying? I hope not. I can at least be grateful I know my children won't.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)I'm just stating a side observation. Who is forcing anything on anybody? Jeeez.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)we have been living through an era of fundamentalism in all the monotheisms and they're all reactionary movements everywhere they exist.
the reaction isn't divided along gender lines. Many women have routinely contributed their time, money and vote to continued oppression of women.
Religious females were behind the defeat of the ERA in the U.S.
The reason for this, it is postulated, is those females derive a benefit from their positions attached to a powerful male and define their power because of this male.
It's like white women in the south who pretended slavery wasn't a blight on America's very foundational documents because they were catered to and had exclusive rights by benefit of their marriages, etc. to rich slaveholders.
Some women did go against this - and there was a price to pay. There's always a price to pay for refusing to comply with the dominant oppression of the day.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)...on the one hand and a rabidly religious lower class.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Apophis
(1,407 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)"Spread the peaceful gospel with a Maxim gun."
defacto7
(13,485 posts)since the Spanish conquests of the Americas, or the missionaries to Hawaii and the South Pacific islands. What would make anyone think that the message, the dogma and the outcome would de any different in the end? New toys to indoctrinate?
Deep13
(39,154 posts)Jesus Freaks is a derogatory term for part of the religious left that grew out of the hippy counter-culture in the 1960s. To them, the hippy reaction against materialism resonated with Jesus's teachings. They were basically pacifists and not denominationally specific.
The religious right was a recent phenomenon and essentially a reaction to civil rights, the counter-culture, and feminism.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)xfundy
(5,105 posts)in voodoo or other myths are ripe for the picking. The fundies simply subjugate those beliefs and incorporate parts of them into xianity. It's always been this way.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)The beliefs of indigenous people in Africa follow the same trajectory as the beliefs of religions in other parts of the world. "Traditional healers" in Africa (what they're called now, from someone I know from Tanzania) use a lot of plants that have healing properties that are part of that ancient tradition. Those healers also provide support for the leaders, ostracize others based upon that relationship, etc.
There is no more proof of one group's religious beliefs than there is for any other.
AndyTiedye
(23,500 posts)Their numbers may be declining, but not their power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_(Christian_organization)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Dei
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Pat Robertson for instance has been balls deep in the African diamond trade for over 20 years...
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)is leaving the church. It was a "hail Mary" effort to stop the bleeding.
Africa is where the church is growing (as well as the Evangelicals).
If American/European Catholics stopped giving money to this scam, the efforts to conquer Africa/Philippines in the name of Christ would come to a halt.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)Blancarte, one of the nations outstanding specialists on religious subjects, said that one of the main conclusions to be drawn from the 2010 census is that Mexico is no longer a predominantly Catholic country and has become a nation of religious pluralism.
According to figures from the census taken last year, out of a total 112 million Mexicans, 92.9 million are Catholics, 14.1 million belong to Protestant Christian denominations, and a lower number are devotees of Islam, Judaism and various oriental doctrines.
One of the principal novelties is that 5.2 million say they profess no religion to the question about their religious beliefs, they answered no religion.
Obviously the majority of the population still identifies with a religion, but the numbers of those claiming no religion is growing all over the place, not just in the U.S., as you note.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)the clergy tells them. Dogma is fading.