Margaret Cho nails it re: Michelle Shocked "God hates fags"…

[TeeYiYi]

Posted to her blog today:

March 20th, 2013

Well, Michelle Shocked, I am actually totally shocked. What the hell?! It’s freaky to me, the whole business of going from a queer icon to someone who would actually say that God hates us. When the shock wore off, I found people were super angry but I just got scared. I think that as a queer person of color, I have been scared my entire life, and I get over it bit by bit, enough to get by and live, but then something like this happens and it’s like that feeling of getting gay bashed all over again.

When people say that God hates fags, there’s this idea that it’s okay to kill us, it doesn’t matter if we die, because if God hates us, the supposedly one loving force in the world, the one who is supposed to love everyone and everything, the one, the only whatever whenever, if he hates us, then how are we to exist? Also, if he hates us, why did he make so many of us?

When someone like Michelle Shocked, formerly a beloved 90s alt queer muse and maker decides that it is ok to hate us and lets us know that God does too, I am truly sickened, as she of all people should know what this means.

(snip)... And the effect of someone saying “God hates fags” can never be underestimated either. It’s a license to kill. It’s a death sentence. It’s not funny. It’s not ok. It’s not something I can let go easily because I know what it truly means.

The violence and hopelessness behind the statement keeps me up at night and will haunt me just like the tragic memory of a young gay man who was murdered in front of my family’s bookstore in the 70s. He was beaten to death – because these men who were never caught nor punished believed that God hated him, and in my nightmares I find his teeth all over the ground and I try to save them and they keep falling out of my hands and pockets and then I realize that he is dead and has no use for them anymore and I wake up sweating, my screams waking everyone in the house.

http://www.margaretcho.com/2013/03/20/michelle-shocked/

In the war against LGBT, whether it comes from the new pope or a formerly gay / turned self-loathing homophobic musician... Words matter!

TYY

[HappyMe]

1. I like Margaret Cho.

I always thought that Michelle Shocked sucked anyway. I guess her ten fans will be sad that her "career" is over.

[kardonb]

37. M. Cho

I am always amazes at the number of folks who have red phones directly to gad , so he can tell them who he hates . I don.t get it they , since he created us all "in his image ". Fehlkonstruktion ?

[enough]

2. A powerful statement from Ms. Cho. (nt)

[Tempest]

3. Every one of Shocked's U.S. shows have been cancelled. n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

17. So much for this combo...

[joeybee12]

4. BIG KNR

[olddots]

5. I beleive Michelle Shocked is a deeply disturbed person.

We'll probably be hearing more about this sad meltdown from people around her .

[datasuspect]

6. maybe she can smoke crack with charlie sheen

or something.

[AlbertCat]

75. maybe she can smoke crack with charlie sheen

Charlie has too much class for that.

[deurbano]

8. That's my take on it, too. In an online video, she seemed... off. (Strange, and not in a good way.)

I mean, I never followed her career, so don't know what she was like before, but I think her problems are not just limited to a (later in life) passion for homophobia.

[Arugula Latte]

18. Brain damage from religious fundamentalism

much like Victoria Jackson.

[AlbertCat]

76. BINGO....

It's what happens when you jettison your brain for religion and ancient superstitions.

[kdmorris]

7. Great article

Very well written by Ms. Cho.

[cate94]

9. Cho is spot on

The other day I was at a sporting event and I was called an "it" by a guy who didn't whether I was male or female.

That has really stuck with me. "It". Now on occasion I have been called "sir" and I correct w/o comment. I know that I have one of those faces- but being called an "it" really tore at me. That runs in the same line as "God hates fags". You are disposable. You are nothing.

Fortunately, the guy who called me "it" was in a crowded place. The only thing physical that he could do to me was bump into me as hard as possible, which he did. And I am still more bothered by being called an "it"...

Yes, words matter.

[ceile]

10. oh that's just awful.

I am so sorry

[cate94]

52. Thanks.

[TeeYiYi]

13. (((((((cate94)))))))

TYY

[cate94]

53. back at you.

[Cha]

19. ...

Some people are so insecure they have to lash out at others to make themselves feel important.

[cate94]

57. True.

I wish those types could find another way to feel good about themselves.

[bench scientist]

21. that is terrible and dehumanizing

Sorry you were the target of so much hate. Their hate defines them, not you.
Peace
Bench

[cate94]

58. Thanks

I think you are right their hate defines them. Hate is corrosive and ultimately they are the ones to suffer.

[NYC Liberal]

23. Even an "it" would be better than that piece of shit.

What is wrong with people?!

[cate94]

59. Ha!

Some people make themselves crazy with hate. Look at Phelps, you can see it in his face.

[CrispyQ]

73. No words for the hate people openly display.

But here's a

And a for everyone who doesn't fit the patriarchy's ideal of whatever they think we should be.

[bettyellen]

80. oh Cate, sorry to hear this. only a bitter, pathetic asshole would lash out like that.

[TeeYiYi]

11. Gay bashing is not just a physical phenomenon...

It's also very much psychological and emotional. Words have a way of creeping into your psyche and messing with everything you've ever believed about yourself; your very identity… your self esteem comes into question. That's an insidious form of gay bashing because it's not always recognizable while it's happening. But make no mistake, it will always leave a mark.

re: "…but then something like this happens and it’s like that feeling of getting gay bashed all over again."

TYY

[Cha]

12. thank you Margaret Cho!

michelle shocked is an arrogant pos in thinking she speaks for "god". she speaks for herself.

thanks TeeYiYi

[TeeYiYi]

14. You're welcome. ..nt

TYY

[Smarmie Doofus]

15. I guess I should be embarrassed, but.....

... I have never heard of Ms. Shocked.

I'd have thought it was a generational thing but it turns out ( thanks , wiki) she's almost as old as I am. ( Early-stage Alzheimer's?)


Re. her statement: she's sounds like a confused individual. I did a ( admittedly) quickie read-up on wiki on Ms. Shocked. It's not all that unusual for people from marginalized groups including our own to absorb and espouse the most heinous attitudes. Bobby Fischer vs Jews comes to mind off the top of my head.

I think we need to be a little more discriminating about whom we adopt as "gay icons". Cultural gay icons in particular are hugely suspect. Because they can sing well, dress well, act well, whatever.... does not necessarily indicate that they possess any special variety of intellect, wisdom or judgement.

Whatever her talents, Ms. Shocked doesn't exactly sound like MENSA material. Which doesn't mean she can't sing or write songs; just that we shouldn't be looking to her as some sort of ever-spouting font of wisdom.

[Richardo]

16. WTF Really?

I was a Michelle Shocked fan in the early 90s. I had no idea she'd gotten so bigoted and self-loathing. That's horrible.

[awoke_in_2003]

26. she was "re-born" in the mid-90's...

there isn't a more annoying person than someone who found jeebus later in life.

[LanternWaste]

35. I think those who lost him in later life can be just as annoying

"there isn't a more annoying person than someone who found jeebus later in life...."

I think those who lost him in later life can be just as annoying, just as vocal, and just as disrespectful. However, I imagine we all of us draw from our own experiences to draw these conclusions.

[cprise]

56. Honestly

After having lived through the great baby boomer 'rediscovery' of religion, and dealing with their hypocritical, attention-seeking, divorce-and-drug addled Jesus stampede I can't even begin to say how inane that reply seems.

There is nothing clever or helpful about trying to throw something back in someone's face (and suggesting false equivalency) without any reckoning of facts.

[Richardo]

61. That's very disappointing

I re-found played my copy of Short Sharp Shocked just a few weeks ago too - and really enjoyed it. Crap.

[ornotna]

63. Apparently this is not the first time she let her true feelings show.

“Who drafted me as a gay icon? You are looking at the world’s greatest homophobe. Ask God what He thinks”



Back in 2011 at the Wild Goose Festival.



http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/sexandgender/4888/wild_goose_festival%E2%80%99s_%28mostly%29_welcoming_spirit_for_lgbt_christians_/

[nolabear]

20. How incredibly powerful.

[shenmue]

22. Wow

Very moving.

[SomethingFishy]

24. There's a ton of money in being

a right wing bigoted asshole.... just sayin.

[Shivering Jemmy]

29. She isn't doing it for the money

She's doing it bc she's mentally ill.

[SomethingFishy]

30. Really? Because I am a roadie and I know a guy on her crew

who seems to think that she's just an asshole.

[Shivering Jemmy]

31. Really

She was disgnosed years ago as paranoid schizophrenic. It is unlikely that your acquaintance would know this.

http://www.leeaaron.com/john/michelle-shocked-went-for-the-singing-and-stayed-for-the-song/

[SomethingFishy]

34. So you think she is off her meds then?

If what you say is true I'm surprised she got on the road at all. Too many of us out here have been burned by flaky artists and it's not easy to get insurance for someone who might go off the deep end at any moment.
2 years ago I was offered to tour with Guns and Roses, I said I would take the tour if I got a written contract stating that I would get paid whether or not Axel Rose decided to show up... I ended up on something else

[TeeYiYi]

32. I'll bet he really feels that way now...

...that her whole spring and summer tour just got cancelled.

TYY

[SomethingFishy]

33. Not just him..

Lots of people now out of work. People don't realize how things work in the touring industry. No one tours year round, and very few tour every year. You have to take the gigs when you can get them, and now these people who have probably turned down other gigs to do her tour are out of work. Most of the summer tours are already staffed and these poor guys are going to have a hard time finding other gigs.

[TeeYiYi]

36. Manager, roadies, techs, lighting, merch...

Lots of people got screwed when she let it fly at Yoshi's. Now she's trying to walk it back but it's too late for that.

It's hard to lie your way out of something in this day and age when the people you're offending have cell phone audio/video.

Statement from MS: http://littleaustralia.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/statement-from-michelle-shocked-im-very.html

TYY

[SomethingFishy]

41. Caterers, bus drivers, truck drivers, Band Members

it's a pretty long list..

Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen the "backpedal" yet...

[TeeYiYi]

43. Backpedaling three days later...

...doesn't quite cut it for me. If she really wanted anyone to believe that it was all a big misunderstanding, she'd have had to make a statement immediately following said "misunderstanding" on Sunday evening. That ship sailed 3 days ago.

TYY

[SomethingFishy]

45. There is no mistaking what she said.

The audio is out there for everyone to hear. Funny thing was she was all calm about her bigotry, explaining in her little sing song voice that Prop 8 would forced priests, at gunpoint, to marry gays, and when that happened, Jesus would return. She only audibly gets angry when a woman in the audience asks her something to the effect of, "shouldn't your god love everyone gay or not?" then you can hear Michelle start to go off the deep end...

In all my years of touring I have seen only one other artist piss off their audience like that. It was Hank Williams Jr, and at least he had the sense to be completely stinkin drunk when he went off the rails...

[TeeYiYi]

47. True. Plus, she doesn't have history on her side...

Her homophobia took me by surprise for the first time in 2011 when she lambasted a gay guy in her audience, who was asking her about her stance on homosexuality, with this statement:

“Who drafted me as a gay icon? You are looking at the world’s greatest homophobe. Ask God what He thinks.”

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/sexandgender/4888/wild_goose_festival%E2%80%99s_%28mostly%29_welcoming_spirit_for_lgbt_christians_/

So, now she's hoping to rewrite history; but kinda like the shrub, I have to warrrgarble, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...er...um...ah...na......Won't be fooled again!"

TYY

[Marr]

66. That was one weak-ass excuse, too.

She actually expects someone to believe she was describing what *other people* think?

...

[closeupready]

64. If you listen to the soundcloud, she clearly states that IS her opinion.

She states that she believes 'preachers' 'will be held at gunpoint and forced to marry homosexuals' or words to that effect.

Now she walks back and tries to suggest no, that wasn't what I meant.

Bullshit it wasn't.

[Ex Lurker]

70. There wasn't much of an entourage last time she toured

just her and a keyboard. She had some background singers in Austin, but they were locals, and I don't know if the other tour stops had singers.

[kurtzapril4]

54. She's had a reputation

as an asshole for a long, long time. I, too, know people that I trust who had to deal with her directly. And her husband is a turd, too.

[wryter2000]

25. I don't think I've ever heard of her

What a horrible, hateful thing to say. What saddens me, beyond the obvious, is that she spewed her hate at Yoshi's. Oakland Yoshi's is my favorite place to eat and see a show. She did her thing in Yoshi's SF, but it's still too close to home. I feel as if she's brought her ugliness to my home turf.

[Shivering Jemmy]

27. Michelle Shocked is schizophrenic

And apparently has been for a long time.

[DirkGently]

60. Yes. She seems clinically ill. Maybe that should be discussed with the rest of it.

I can't find it now, but there's an old interview bouncing around where she's talking about her own sexuality not fitting in anyone's box or something. Long before the fundie conversion. She was at once clear that she wasn't straight, and insistent that she wasn't going to say anything more. Not interested in being a gay icon or something. It sounded like someone deeply wounded by the knowledge that she's different and protective of her identity.

I keep reading the words that she said, and it doesn't read like it's meant literally. Of course, you can't "ironically" say the things she said, but "priests marrying gays at gunpoint?" I don't think she thinks that. I think she's struggling with a clinical condition (as you suggest) and has deep issues with her own orientation.

Maybe not now, but someone should consider that she may, among other things, be very confused.

I just don't think Michelle Shocked is at her core a Westboro-parroting homophobe. It would be pretty bad if she went down in flames because she hasn't fully survived her own sexual identity and upbringing.

[xchrom]

28. du rec. nt

[TeeYiYi]

38. Links to audio and statement...

Link to audio recording of Michelle Shocked rant at Yoshi's: http://littleaustralia.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/michelle-shocked-audio-of-rant-lying-in.html

Link to statement of apology (or whatever) from Michelle Shocked: http://littleaustralia.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/statement-from-michelle-shocked-im-very.html

Not buying her explanation but can't blame her for trying.

TYY

[Jamastiene]

71. More of her history.

Some of the things she said in an interview in NC back in 2011 were nasty too. She has a history of saying anti-gay stuff:
http://www.xojane.com/issues/on-my-confrontation-with-homophobe-michelle-shocked

[LanternWaste]

39. The irony for me is that she was part and parcel of my progression

The irony for me is that she was part and parcel of my progression from a HS republican to a college Democrat. She was part of the soundtrack of that awakening of mine as I toyed with bits and pieces of the counterculture to see which ones fit and which didn't.

I couldn't begin to count how many times we'd hit one of the dorm rooms, roll up a fat one, and pretend to discuss Really Important Things while listening to Short Sharp Shocked and Captain Swing (her only LPs that were available when I was in college... and, I think, her best).

Michelle Shocked and Christine Lavin were pretty much my first alternative to the standards of my HS days (Springsteen, The Police, Rush, etc), and whenever I hear one of her singles on my MP3 player, I'm taken back 25 years in time like no other pop artist has been able to do.

Sigh.

[Arugula Latte]

40. It's weird because she was involved with the Occupy movement.

But, I guess if she has schizophrenia (aggravated by religious nuttery) then I can see where she'd be all over the map.

[DonCoquixote]

46. not at all

There are Libertarians who seem to like a lot of OWS, but we cannot forget that they are the old school right, the same right that would let rich people kill whoever they want, and who use churches to justify that.

[mountain grammy]

42. wow, very powerful.

[Lex]

44. The comments under her blog post are interesting too.

Nice post by MC.

[Melinda]

48. Dear DUers: Make sure you read the link! READ Ms. Cho's PERSONAL hell!! FEEL HER FEAR!!!

And then applaud her like you've never applauded another for not only surviving that "crazy man" determined to kill her so many years ago, but overcoming THOSE FEARS to become the accomplished successful woman she is today. And now her feelings are torn assunder by such hatefully mad ramblings, and yet again she has to overcome this fear. FEEL her FEAR, and then come back to where we are as a country this day.


Michele Shocked' ranting may have finally wrought the perfect storm. I HAVE A FEELING that Ms. Cho just took charge of the helm, and its full steam ahead with this issue. I am certain it's forward, and I am in awe of Margaret Cho.

[TeeYiYi]

49. .

TYY

[Melinda]

50. Full sincerity.... I am in awe of her.

My heart breaks for Michele Shocked as well, but differently (mental illness is another issue) I am sad this happened and yet elated at the same time. It's a timely convergence of issues, but in this OP the thread is about Margaret Cho and her reaction to the madness that is Michele Shocked. I'm so glad to have read this letter. Does any of this make sense? Read my sig line, I hope it helps convey what I am trying to express.

And I seem to use caps when excited. That's all.

Have I totally confused you now?

[TeeYiYi]

51. Ok. Thank you...

I agree that this thread is first and foremost about Margaret Cho. She explains, better than most, the damage that hate speech can have on its (occasionally unforeseen) target.

TYY

[Ruby the Liberal]

55. What a horrible memory for her to carry for all these decades. nt

No idea who Michelle Shocked is (other than all the threads about this), but she didn't meet "God". She met the slime of the earth and convinced herself it was "truth". I hope whoever she is, that she snaps out of it.

[Kalidurga]

62. I love Margaret Cho

I can feel the pain this has obviously brought up, I wouldn't be surprised if she has been having flashbacks and nightmares. I hope she can find the help she needs it sucks, I have had the same problem when Republicans talk about legitimate rape.

The difference though between Michelle Shocked and Republicans is this. Michelle Shocked clearly has a severe mental illness. And obviously hasn't had enough help in managing her illness if she even acknowledges it. Someone said she has been diagnosed, but it seems that she hasn't accepted that or what can happen if she doesn't manage it. Republicans have no such excuse. I am not sure I buy it it completely when a mentally ill person does something wrong either that it was the illness. I struggle with that issue myself, like is it me or is it me having a screw loose.

I think this is just tragic all around. Words can be very damaging to other people. And even if you understand the person saying things is having a bad day or has mental health issues they can still hurt, because it is just that hard to separate the words from the person they come from and have some compassion when they have been so hurtful. In any case I hope Ms Shocked really takes the time to think about her illness and the treatment plan she is on if she is indeed on one and I hope she comes out of the closet and explains that she has a mental illness and that she still needs to take responsibility and make amends for what she has done.

[closeupready]

65. Disgusting woman (Shocked). To think she was ever someone.

[closeupready]

67. And then her Xtian fundie groupies go, "Michelle, I love you!"

Yuck. Not sure if I'm more disgusted with Shocked or her 'fans'; or maybe the word is 'minions'. Or maybe 'ilk'.

[Smilo]

68. Dear Margaret

please, please know there are so many of us that love you for being you - it doesn't matter to us what color, creed or sexual partner you prefer - what does matter to us is that you are honest, loving, courteous and considerate.

Margaret - Michelle and her "born again" family are running scared and striking out at those they believe are weaker than they are - because when it comes down to it those "we hate......." are all the same - bullies who need to find a victim they can villify.

So Margaret and all the rest of you wonderful gay, homosexual fags - remember you are loved and those that love you are vast in number.

[rhett o rick]

69. Margret Cho I believe said, "I will stay and fight". I love her. nm

[Warren DeMontague]

72. Have always liked Margaret Cho.

She's spot-on.

[CrispyQ]

74. Outstanding! --nt

~kick

[House of Roberts]

77. Nicole Sandler had Michelle Shocked lined up for a phone interview today.

Actually got her to answer the phone a couple of times, but Michelle wasn't making any sense. She kept hanging up and texting or tweeting to Nicole. On a text or a tweet we can't be sure who is actually doing the talking, but the person on the phone didn't sound capable of the coherence exhibited in the tweets.

[TeeYiYi]

78. Thanks for this reminder...

I'm listening to an archive of Nicole Sandler's radio show now.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/michelle-shocked-blows-off-then-pops-in-and-out-of-scheduled-interview-that-goes-nuts/politics/2013/03/21/62908

TYY

[TeeYiYi]

81. Good point on the ability to tweet...

...She probably had someone there tweeting for her. Or not... I think she's seriously ill.

I was really uncomfortable listening to that radio show. Michelle is clearly paranoid and delusional. I think that's sad. She showed her homophobia loud and clear at Yoshi's but didn't plan an it being recorded. Now she has no way out of it and she's feeling persecuted.

I feel sorry for her, but I hate that she's a raging bigot jesus freak homophobe. I won't throw away my ShortSharpShocked cd but I have no intention of listening to it again for a really long time.

Nicole Sandler did a good job maintaining her composure on that radio show. I commend her for that. She handled it well. Better than I would have.

Oh well. Bye bye Michelle... We hardly knew ya.

TYY

[warrprayer]

79. sigh...

I first heard Michelle Shocked when someone here posted a clip of here getting arrested at an Occupy event. It seems she has serious mental health issues, and I wish her healing. This saddened me.

Does this sound like a homophobe? Something is seriously wrong. apparently she snapped...