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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSocial Security: Stealing the World's Largest Bank Account
Last edited Wed Mar 20, 2013, 11:36 PM - Edit history (1)
The Trust Fund is close to $3 trillion and growing, growing.
The Predator Class wants that money for itself. Their efforts to get it will be unprecedented, they have purchased virtually all our elected officials and they want results.
They will not stop their epic war on us until they have it in hand. Every trick in the book: Commissions, chained-CPI, more commissions, raising the eligibility age... they'll try everything until something works.
This will go on for years, decades. Continuous. They are sick, they are wealthy, they are determined. And they own most of our lawmakers, and law executors.
Keeping the 99%'s bank account for its rightful owners won't be easy.
Are you ready to fight back?
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NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)duffyduff
(3,251 posts)to shore up their "place" in history as being "transformative."
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)a wolf in sheep's clothing?
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)The other kind is worse because it pretends to be harmless.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)
KoKo
(84,711 posts)
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I worry that people under 40 don't get it.
They don't even get the reasons we need unions
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)forestpath
(3,102 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Then when the market crashes, poof! There goes everybody's retirement. But more importantly for the 1%, there goes the $3 trillion they're on the hook for.
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)I'm checking ebay for deals on guillotines.
olddots
(10,237 posts)
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)If people want to stand against atacks on SS, not standing with the attackers is the only start.
Dan
(3,551 posts)based on his family history,
it is the only thing left (or enable) for them to steal.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)of the Democratic Party. The game will be exposed if any Democrat, even one, dares to go along with any cuts to SS Benefits. Maybe we needed this to see the total corruption that has poisoned our government.
For many, many people this would be the crossing of the line as far as the Democratic Party is concerned.
Already many Democrats have had to hold their noses when election time comes around. The support by so many elected Dems for Bush policies has been difficult to overlook, but then the other party is sooooo much worse.
However if they touch SS, all hell will break lose and it may be the beginning of something totally new in this country.
And maybe that might not be a bad thing.
If they were smart, they would keep us hanging on. But I know this for a fact, nearly every Dem I know will be done with the Dem Party if they dare to touch the SS fund which everyone knows, they have no right to do. It is not theirs, it is ours.
We do not give them permission to bargain with OUR money.
It is NOT part of the Federal Budget and no amount of weasel language will convince anyone that it is or had anything to do with the Deficit.
We KNOW what they are up to. And if they betray those who elected them, they will suffer serious consequences.
They can't win elections without the Liberals they apparently despise so much and we have had it with the deceptions. In a way, I hope they do try as it's past time to keep 'hoping' and now time to face some reality.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...that "We KNOW what they are up to."
Oh, WE do -- you and I and Manny many people who pay close attention to these things. But the public at large, Democrats at large? No, they do not necessarily understand what's really going on here. They believe there is a deficit problem and everything they hear reinforces that SS is a big factor in that deficit. They have also been conditioned to believe "Well, it probably won't be there for me when I retire" or "Well it's likely to be a lot less than it used to be".
That is the power of propaganda. It is also a testament to one thing the right wing has always done better than the left, and that is to create a compelling narrative, that fits together so seamlessly that it slips right into people's consciousness without them knowing it, until it seems to just be obviously true.
"You can't live beyond your means" and equating the federal budget to a family budget. Of course they never mention that you most certainly can borrow money and not be living beyond your means; if that were not the case, then the 30-year mortgage would not have been the norm for homeowners.
"Public schools are failing" and turning around and squeezing them some more, only to hand the money over to private charters that do even worse. And use minimally-trained TFA teachers who are using it as a career stepping stone, but the careers they target are not teaching: most of them teach for 2 years tops. And of course the testing, testing, testing, making the bar higher each year so they can continue to say the public schools are failing.
"Unions are corrupt institutions" / "Unions have outlived their usefulness", convincing a whole generation that unions are at best superfluous and at worst are a major factor in the job drain to other countries, because they demand a living wage for their members, and that is so UNFAIR to the people who aren't in union jobs. And they're SQUEEZING the poor, poor corporate employers...
"It's all the immigrants' fault, they're taking all the jobs" / "Immigrants are shiftless and lazy and draining our resources", oh yes this is a favorite and it is hammered all the time, to the point where people lose any semblance of reason on the topic. It also serves to keep the "illegals" down so they can be exploited, and is another wedge to keep us apart.
"If only this country was more religious / moral, things would be better". This is an all-purpose canard that keeps people feeling like it is individual moral failings that keep people from achieving more and being able to keep their heads above water.
"There were WMDs in Iraq / Saddam Hussein was involved in the attacks on 9/11". I'm sure I don't have to say anything more about that lie.
Well I could go on and on but you get the idea. The narratives that are stuck in people's heads are wrong and misguided, but they are well and truly embedded in their psyches. The big question for us is how to change the narrative to one that is truthful. Our history, the history of labor (for example) has been STOLEN from us and the preferred corporate version has been slipped in in its place. How do we ferret it out and embed the TRUTH?
KoKo
(84,711 posts)who vote Democratic themselves. They've bought the Repug line...in part because they haven't seen Dem pushback in their lives but remember Clinton and the DLC policies which they thought were good.. Their parents know...but, the kids just shrug shoulders.. I think the constant bombardment of media has even infected many young Democrats minds along with the Democrats DLC/Third Way policies supporting Big Buisness, DeRegulation, Privatization.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)people have more access to information today. I know I used to think the 'SS will not be there when you retire' was true because I never thought it until the past few years when it became a big issue, ie, when Bush tried to privatize it in 2005. So I began to look for information myself as I'm sure others did and are still doing.
But one thing that would help. If Democrats would at least try to do as good a job of getting the facts out as Republicans do to spread the lies they spread. It should not be difficult. In fact it should be part of everyone's basic education, part of the history of this country. We have no problem hearing the lies repeated, but it is rare to hear the facts. So Democrats need to start doing a better job of helping workers understand this program and what it means to even young people, especially to their parents and grandparents.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Discussing how we will raise money to pay SS benefits in the future, when the benefits being paid out will exceed the payroll taxes being paid in, is essentially the same as discussing how we will raise the money to redeem the IOU's in the "trust fund".
As the Office of Management and Budget put it:
These [Trust Fund] balances are available to finance future benefit payments and other Trust Fund expenditures – but only in a bookkeeping sense.... They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits or other expenditures. The existence of large Trust Fund balances, therefore, does not, by itself, have any impact on the Government’s ability to pay benefits. (from FY 2000 Budget, Analytical Perspectives, p. 337)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Trust_Fund
See also:
I have been trying to expose the Social Security scam for more than a decade, now, with little cooperation from the media, until very recently. But the tide is turning. My first big break came when Allan Sloan, Fortune’s Senior Editor at Large, quoted me and referred to my book in his August 10 Washington Post column. I’m sure Allan shocked a lot of people with that column. And he became the first major media person to reveal the dark secret that the government has managed to keep hidden for 25 years.
Below is an excerpt from that column.
"Let me show you in two different ways how useless the fund is. The first is a quote from the introduction to the 2009 Social Security trustees report, the second is the graphic by my Fortune colleague Robert Dominguez that accompanies this article. Allen Smith, economics professor emeritus at Eastern Illinois University and author of “The Big Lie: How Our Government Hoodwinked the Public, Emptied the S.S. Trust Fund, and caused The Great Economic Collapse,” spotted the 2009 quote, and it is telling. It says: “Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.
In other words, the trust fund is of no economic value. This sentence wasn’t in the 2010 introduction, released last week. Treasury says that it stands by the statement but that the Social Security trustees decided not to include it this year because it reiterates the obvious."
Once Allan Sloan broke the ice, and reported on a subject that has been taboo for two decades, he was followed by other journalists. Below are excerpts from the Social Security writings of three mainstream journalists who have recently joined the effort to expose the awful truth about the trust fund.
"Doesn’t the Social Security trust fund cover that? No, silly. All those years of surplus in Social Security were recorded in a book entry dubbed the “trust fund”, but the non-marketable special Treasury bonds that make up the fund don’t represent any assets that can be cashed in to pay benefits".
— Eric Schurenberg from CBS Money Watch, August 19, 2010
"Your payroll taxes go into a bottomless hole. So where did all that FICA money go? Down the drain of federal spending on everything. It’s certainly not sitting in an account waiting to pay your retirement benefits."
— Terry Savage, Chicago Sun-Times, September 6, 2010
http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/09/the-awful-truth-about-the-social-security-trust-fund-is-beginning-to-emerge/
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It will be paid out of taxes and some of it will be "paid" simply because of inflation.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)am happy to hear that the money we owe other nations does not have to be paid back at all simply because we spent what we borrowed and only gave them worthless T-bills in exchange., that should put things in the black while allowing the Government to replace the funds you feel were stolen fairly from the trust fund. Good news for us, bad news for China.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)We do indeed need to redeem all Treasury securities, so these securities are far from "worthless". The question is, when the Trust Fund redeems these securities in order to pay promised SS benefits, how is the money going to be raised to do this?
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I would suggest that simply taxing the many corporations that pay no taxes at all at the moment would go a long way. I imagine also, that if money made by investment were taxed the same as other income that may pay off some of what our leaders would prefer to welsh on. It was quite irresponsible to fund unending wars without a war tax and even cutting taxes on the wealthiest during such a time. To expect the very citizens whom the trust fund belongs to to sacrifice because the money is owed them is not only absurd, I would call it criminal. Taxes on the very wealthy are as low as they were last time the financial elite destroyed the country's finances, perhaps a return to Reagan era tax rates for the very wealthy would be in order, especially considering these are the same wealthy that are receiving nearly all of the wealth being generated by the recovery. Balance does not mean the poor sacrifice so much they may not survive why the wealthy enjoy continuing record profits, I would even term such a thing "anti-balance."
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)Lets use the SS is broke by 2033 date, Ok?
Currently 2.6 trillion in the TF. Redeemed over 20 years, one year at a time, is 130 billion a year. About .86% of GDP.
The Treasury paid for the payroll tax holiday, about 120 billion, like it was nothing. Its a drop in the bucket.
Plus the 30 yr T-Bills coming due soon pay 6-7-8%, and they will be rolled over at what? 3.15%? I checked, 3-21-13
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=yield
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)to buy weapons. The Social Security account has a positive balance. The WAR account has the negative balance. We need to raise taxes to pay for the WAR debt. Those that use your talking points want us to pay the war debt with SS money. NO FUCKING WAY. Raise taxes now on those that profited from the wars.
The USofA is in debt to Japan, China, Saudi Arabia, and also to those that paid into SS. Would you prefer to pay China and tell our seniors they can kiss their SS good-bye? The Republicans would.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)in much the same way as China and Japan? Are you ACTUALLY claiming that the US Government intends to default on one of its most important creditors, the American people, to whom they have made the same promise they make to all their other creditors, that the Treasury Bonds they have issued with the promise they are backed by the 'full faith and credit' of the US Government, are pieces of garbage??
Lol, I love these ridiculous claims that come mainly from the Pete Peterson SS propaganda machine.
Should the US default on even ONE of its creditors, this country would be finished, even more finished than it would have been IF Saddam Hussein actually had they mythical WMDs and had succeeded in using them.
If you think for one minute that this Government would risk scaring the shit out of China by defaulting on any of its creditors, ESPECIALLY the American people, I want some of what you are smoking.
The SS fund is solvent even without doing a thing to 'fix it' for the next 75 years at least. It has more than one source of income and is in no danger of not being able to pay its full obligations out to the owners of the fund, the American people for decades to come. The surplus will double by 2023 and will reach over 4 trillion dollars.
The US Government will NEVER default on its obligations to its Treasury Bond holders, which includes the SS Fund from which they borrowed to pay for Bush's fake wars and tax cuts for the wealthy. IF that ever happens, we will have a lot more to worry about than SS.
The reason we see the scare tactics is to try to get the American people to GIVE them our money, to release them from the debt they owe, but if we do not, they WILL have to raise taxes on the wealthy in order to pay back the debt to SS they owe and to keep the promise made to ALL of their creditors.
If what you claim were true, IF the Treasury Bonds actually were worthless, they would simply take the money and run. But they can't, they need OUR complicity to get away with the theft of SS otherwise, they risk totally collapsing this Government as all of their other creditors would immediately call in THEIR debt.
Please stop spreading this right wing propaganda here. We know the facts here.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)by the would-be thieves of that fund which they so desperately want to get their hands to to gamble with in the big Casino on Wall Street. Thankfully the last time they tried what they are still trying, in 2005 when Bush, foolishly believed that 'SS is no longer the Third Rail of politics' he rightfully had his head handed to him. Imagine if the people had fallen for that lie then what would have happened to those funds when their whole Ponzi scheme collapsed. At least the SS fund remained out of private hands and thankfully was not gambled away with everything else they 'invested'.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Where are the numbers showing the fund is solvent and can pay out everything promised for 75 years? That is deceptive and is not the numbers the trustees are issuing as their most likely estimate. I hope you aren't pinning your numbers on long term unemployment at 4.5% because even with a housing bubble we were at 5%.
With all the automation we are likely to see I highly doubt the best case scenarios that you seem to assume will be our reality.
You are feeding false data. That bothers me immensely.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)1. Can you tell us how the Trustees' estimates have panned out vs. reality in he past? How about going back 25 years or so.
2. Who was, until recently, the head of the Trustees? Who appointed the Trustees? Did the appointer appoint any other commissions, say, run by the two miscreants he's shown with in my sig's picture? Has he repeatedly lied about why Social Security was started? Why?
3. How many times in the last 25 years has GDP growth or productivity increases matched the Trustees assumptions about the average of those figures moving forward into the future?
dkf
(37,305 posts)So they have managed to get it wrong by overestimating the longevity of the fix. We also weren't supposed to exceed payouts for several more years.
It's actually worse than expected and projected.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Thanks
dkf
(37,305 posts)The original recommendation covered 75% of the shortfall and added that the extra 25% could be achieved by increasing the retirement age which they also did.
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)Cohort age is nearly perfect, Workforce is close, GDP was close until the 2008-2013 recession.
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)It's amazing how so many will work so hard to avoid finding the facts.
Anyone who trusts a crisis manufactured by Geithner, Simpson, Bowles, and Obama is a total rube.
dkf
(37,305 posts)The estimate for the longevity of the fund is going down not up.
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)Its extended.
The estimate for the longevity of the fund is going down not up.
2013 SST report
Low cost estimate=2090
Intermediate cost=2033
High cost = 2029
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)by the people, once again, the SS fund, during that same economic collapse, not only had zero problem paying out 100% of their financial obligations, they continued over the past several years, to show a surplus.
It's an amazing fiscal program, one of the most successful ever, which is of course why the financial predators whose own 'fiscal programs' have failed so miserably forcing the people to continually bail them out, want to get their greedy hands on it so they can continue to gamble on Wall St.
The false information they spread about SS will definitely be countered as it has been by anyone who is not part of the ponzi scheme known as Wall St. Sorry if it bothers you.
We are owed money, we the people. To prove that we have bonds from the US Treasury. We want that debt paid though SS has been able to and will continue to be, pay IT'S debts, it is past time to start increasing benefits for the people who own that fund.
The only false information being spread around is the notion that 'the SS fund is in trouble and it won't be there when you retire'. We've been hearing that from the day it was set up, haven't we? But now young people are far more educated about SS and it is becoming much more difficult for the criminals who raided it to hide what they are trying to do, avoid paying back what they owe.
Let me know when you get as upset over the failure of the Big Banks as you are over the success of SS.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...by law it must be paid back, barring some kind of handwaving flim-flam, which is exactly what they're working on.
840high
(17,196 posts)saying the exact thing. k/r/
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)start dragging them out of their offices, yachts, clubs, and homes.
I'm ready to all Phibes on their asses.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I am sure I can help construct a several station multi-guillotine and also be of some aid in the "dragging them out of their offices" portion of the event!
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
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bluesbassman
(19,372 posts)You hit the nail on the head right there. Follow the money and it leads right back to Wall Street and the bangsters.
Look forward to seeing more of your posts, and I hope you enjoy your DU experience.
I'll be reading you .
KoKo
(84,711 posts)
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)I do not like this auto-remove feature at all. I keep seeing posts recced by people I respect very much, but the posters are gone, and there is no way to see the posts that caused the PPR.
moondust
(19,975 posts)Congratulations! 
Mattresses and guillotines!
leftstreet
(36,106 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)But I have no fight left. I hope others can fight on, but I have taken one too many gut blows. Just trying to survive has sapped me and I am ready to leave this cruel, heartless, uncaring, souless, world.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)As Thomas Paine wrote in the depths of the Revolution, "These are the times that try men's souls."
It sucks.
But it's starting to turn around. Just two years ago, almost nobody realized what we were up against - a full-out war against the 99%, with the profoundly-corrupt cooperation of both political parties. People are waking up now. For example, I can't imagine that Elizabeth Warren, would have been elected in my own state of Massachusetts a few years ago - when she entered the race, even our local Democrats questioned whether she was too Liberal, not "sensible" enough. But there she is, fighting for us, tooth and nail. She will soon be joined by other big-hearted streetfighters, you can count on it.
It will take a few years before we see big progress, but they will be very interesting years with victories coming more and more often. And we need your help. I hope that you have the oomph to rededicate yourself to the fight, after 30 years of grueling losses we're starting to make real progress.
Peace to you!
99Forever
(14,524 posts)I love you as a brother. It things are turning around, I see no evidence of it in my world. I'm out of time, brother. This heartless nation has used me up. I'm out of time.
I posted an OP yesterday morning about this very thing. I got 2 responses, only 1 of which seemed to understand just how desperate and hopeless this is for millions of us. I'm drained Manny. My hope has been used as just another tool to protect the rich, by those I trusted to really work to fix things. I was lied to. Again and again and again. Now, I just want the pain to end, the constant worry to be gone, and the guilty to be brought to justice. None of which is going to happen. And almost no one really cares. So I just want out.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Take a break..but, please don't give up.
Posts scroll through here so fast these days that it's not that no one cared but that it just wasn't seen in time. And, to be honest many of us are just trying to sort through all this crap and very discouraged with the Democratic Response to Repugs...so there's that. But, maybe it's a "wake up call"...that will finally make real reforms possible.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)"Positive thinking" hasn't made a noticeable difference in my life in over 4 years. I, and millions of others have been abandoned by our party, our nation, our fellow human beings. We cry for help, we bleed from our wounds, we die unnoticed as if we never existed. We barely get lip service anymore, and real help isn't even worth dreaming of. I get it, I don't have money, so I don't matter. I want to go to sleep and never wake.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)But change is in the air. Our 99% is coming back to life, and we will win. I hope that you will be with us to enjoy our successes, and that you will be with us in this struggle.
My son's Hebrew school recently had a speaker, a fellow of almost 90 who'd spent years in concentration camps. My wife and I pretended to be a teenager and sat in, too. His parents and younger brothers were exterminated the very day the family was interned. He battled unimaginable cruelties and disease, but lived to see a better day. He moved here, and eventually did well. There is a film about him now. I'll bet he's glad to have had the stubbornness to see a new day. I hope that you're stubborn, too, because there will be bright new days. Stubbornness and a willingness to try new things, new directions.
Your profile says that you're in Minnesota? I'm not an expert on the state, but I'll bet there are many programs to help people when they need a little help. My wife and I have a hobby of helping families in our state who have children with disabilities, there are many, many programs here that people simply don't know about but which are a godsend, your state may well have programs that you don't know about *yet*. I've used our social safety nets when things were dark for me, I hope you will too. Sometimes we take, sometimes we give; that's the way it works.
Onward and upward!
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Together we can. My best to you.
marmar
(77,077 posts)Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)the People.
The other part:
Iceland arrests bankers.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022543253
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Sign me up.
Autumn
(45,064 posts)K/R
Romulox
(25,960 posts)
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Whatever happened to THAT guy?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Fabulous Sauternes tonight, I understand.
Can someone move those homeless wretches away from the White House? Very unsightly.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Hotler
(11,420 posts)PROTEST! PROTEST! PROTEST! PROTEST! PROTEST! PROTEST! PROTEST! PROTEST!..............
prettymeadow
(1 post)SAVE SOCIAL SECURITY http://signon.org/sign/join-a-march-on-washington-1?source=c.url&r_by=5110335 … … … PLZ sign and RT WE NEED TO MAKE A STAND!
Rhiannon12866
(205,237 posts)And welcome to DU! You might want to post this on a more recent thread, like this one, from today:
Americans Value Protecting Social Security More Than Deficit Reduction - FDL/Pew
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022552881