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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI am finding this all hard to believe...
Apparently now being accused of rape means being 100% guilty.
I keep seeing one guy after another being released from jail, after spending 5-25 years in jail for rapes they didn't do.
But in this "all men are rapists" mentality, they are all 100% guilty.
(I'll be labeled a "rapist apologist" in 3-2-1...)
Tien1985
(920 posts)Archae
(46,260 posts)I have yet to see just *ONE* person condemning this woman, it's painfully obvious she did this whole scheme so she could sue the school and cash in.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50143485n
She still doesn't give a damn about the years Brian Banks spent condemned as a rapist, because this woman wanted easy money.
Meanwhile, still without all the facts in yet, a couple guys have been judged to be 100% guilty in raping a 13 year old girl.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022540373
markpkessinger
(8,381 posts). . . the case from Torrington, CT, I haven't seen anywhere where the accused have denied having had sexual contact with the girl. If indeed they did, then by definition, they are guilty of statutory rape because the girl was underage.
Archae
(46,260 posts)BUT...
Did they know the girl was only 13?
My nephew has told me about girls 14, 15, who will lie and say they are 18.
Look up Traci Lords.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traci_Lords
She lied about her age when she made her first porn movie.
Were the other actors in those movies "raping" her?
markpkessinger
(8,381 posts)Archae
(46,260 posts)Are all boys supposed to demand a birth certificate from now on, from the girl they are set up on a blind date with?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)markpkessinger
(8,381 posts). . . with someone they don't really know, and thus don't know her age for certain, then they are undertaking the risk that she may be underage. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for this line of argument. I mean, blind date or not, it's not like anybody's forcing them to have sex.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)n/t
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)this subthread is exhibit A.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)because you feel it's important to defend those poor innocent men who don't know they're having sex with a 14-year old?
Here's an idea: don't fuck someone if you don't know how old they are.
we really can't trust anyone.
I remember having to show Mr Pipi my license before he would allow himself to get really involved with me, even though we had known each other by way of a group we both were members of.
I know I didn't look my age and he wanted to make sure I was at least older than 35, which he didn't believe I was. I was actually 46 at the time.
Best policy...ask for proof. Always.
Tien1985
(920 posts)There are lots of people condemning the woman from the Brian Banks case--here on this thread there are people saying those who make false accusations should face tough penalties (which I support, fwiw). Plus I looked up a few articles, read the comments, there is more than enough condemnation.
As far as Torrington, so far, the argument is whether it was statutory or not. Even the people bullying the girl are calling her a "snitch" not a "liar". We are people, not the jury of this case. We only have a few facts to go on, and people will decide what they think both now and as more facts emerge. If this case turns out to be a false report do you think people here will refuse to reevaluate their first assessment? If you do, I disagree with you.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)She always did something to cause it.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Goodbye.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)again. my pleasure.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)Context is your friend.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)uppityperson
(115,674 posts)If "all men are rapists" there would be many more in prison. I'd call wrongful imprisonment a failure of the courts.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Did you find that hard to believe too, that people not into Hentai might not find it as hilarious as you did?
Anyone who doesn't know what that means, do a google image search with safe search off. I'm not going to post a link.
Generation_Why
(97 posts)Everyone involved in making that happen should have to serve the same amount of time.
With no statute of limitations.
It would cut down on some of that shit.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)demmiblue
(36,743 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)At Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:15 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
I am finding this all hard to believe...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022571870
REASON FOR ALERT:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)
ALERTER'S COMMENTS:
This claim that there is a widely held belief that "all men are rapists" and that many rape cases are phony is pure Mens Rights woo. This is also incredibly insensitive to the DUers who have been speaking of their sexual victimization in the last couple of days. It's also stupid,nasty flamebait of the lowest order.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:29 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: The alerted post is nothing more than disruptive shit-stirring. The OP has no sense of community standards. HIDE IT!!1!!1
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Stop trying to censor everyone who says something you disagree with, alerter. Also, waving your arms and going "men's rights" every time something pisses you off, makes you look lame. It's not some sort of argument-winning trump card. Most people outside of HoF don't know what that means, or give half a shit. Personally, I disagree with the OP, but that doesn't mean it should be hidden.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Not to agree in any way with the post, but it is something that should be argued with rather than banned.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Agree with alerter 100% - I am a sexual assault survivor and a feminist and I have had it with this crap on DU
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)And fuck, that was a mess on DU.
Archae
(46,260 posts)And like a few (VERY few) cases pointed out here at DU, the "dumb rapist jocks" were all judged to be 100% guilty.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)And there are times when people go free because there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
False accusations are bad.
Unreported rapes are also bad, but that is somewhat mitigated by the fact that it is the victim's decision whether s/he wants to go through the process of prosecution or not.
People going free because of reasonable doubt is appropriate under our legal system.
Something I find morally objectionable is the vehement rejection and attempt to silence particular stories because they don't fit a desired narrative.
Riftaxe
(2,693 posts)and required by law to prosecute, false rape accusations should have the same penalties and also be required enforcement.
It might take a few years to shake out the chaff, but perhaps it will address the seriousness of both crimes.
Neither crime should ever be less a penalty the willful homicide. Up to that i am quite comfortable with.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)forgot the name.
thucythucy
(7,983 posts)"all men are rapists"?
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)So, you start off with an incorrect premise there.
Rarely, someone is wrongly convicted of rape and then ends up being released after serving time. That's rare, though. I notice that you provide no links to such cases.
Rape is wrong. It is that simple. Men who rape are criminals. It is that simple.
Orrex
(63,084 posts)Of course, 99 times out of 100 it's men claiming that women have made that claim, so...
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)Rapes happen. Clearly. Generally, it is men raping women. I think the number of people in prison for rape who are men outnumber those who are women overwhelmingly.
What does that mean? It means that some men rape women. Sadly, it happens far, far too often, and often goes unreported, so we have no idea, really, just how many rapes occur.
But, all men are not rapists, obviously. Are all men potential rapists? I don't think so. I'm a man, and I can absolutely guarantee that I wll never rape anybody, nor have I ever raped anybody. It's not in my makeup at all.
But, I don't see people saying that, anyhow.
Eliminating rape from our society is probably not possible, but it's a worthy goal. I'm in favor of trying to do just that.
It may well be that some men think that women consider all men to be rapists or potential rapists. If so, those men are mistaken.
Orrex
(63,084 posts)I Googled the phrase "potential rapist" and found that it pops up fairly frequently on DU, but it's almost always used by a man claiming that some woman/women said that all men are potential rapists.
In the rare instance when a woman uses the phrase, I find that she's usually quoting a post by a man who'd made that claim.
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)You're right.
Orrex
(63,084 posts)How dare you agree with me!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)with the purposeful agenda of the mens right advocates spreading the false number at 45-75%
FBI reports consistently put the number of "unfounded" rape accusations around 8%. In contrast, the average rate of unfounded reports for "Index crimes" tracked by the FBI is 2%.[2] However, "unfounded" is not synonymous with false allegation.[3] Bruce Gross of the Forensic Examiner says that:
This statistic is almost meaningless, as many of the jurisdictions from which the FBI collects data on crime use different definitions of, or criteria for, "unfounded." That is, a report of rape might be classified as unfounded (rather than as forcible rape) if the alleged victim did not try to fight off the suspect, if the alleged perpetrator did not use physical force or a weapon of some sort, if the alleged victim did not sustain any physical injuries, or if the alleged victim and the accused had a prior sexual relationship. Similarly, a report might be deemed unfounded if there is no physical evidence or too many inconsistencies between the accuser's statement and what evidence does exist. As such, although some unfounded cases of rape may be false or fabricated, not all unfounded cases are false.[4]
[edit]British Home Office study (2005)
A 2005 study, "A gap or a chasm? Attrition in reported rape cases" was the largest and most rigorous study to date commissioned by the British Home Office on UK rape crime, from the initial reporting of a rape through to legal prosecutions. The study was based on 2,643 sexual assault cases (Kelly, Lovett, and Regan, 2005). Of these, police departments classified 8% as false reports.[5]
The researchers noted that some of these classifications were based simply on the personal judgments of the police investigators and were made in violation of official criteria for establishing a false allegation. Closer analysis of this category applying the Home Office counting rules for establishing a false allegation and excluding cases where the application of the cases where confirmation of the designation was uncertain reduced the percentage of false reports to 3%. The researchers concluded that "one cannot take all police designations at face value" and that "[t]here is an over-estimation of the scale of false allegations by both police officers and prosecutors." Moreover, they added:
The interviews with police officers and complainants responses show that despite the focus on victim care, a culture of suspicion remains within the police, even amongst some of those who are specialists in rape investigations. There is also a tendency to conflate false allegations with retractions and withdrawals, as if in all such cases no sexual assault occurred. This reproduces an investigative culture in which elements that might permit a designation of a false complaint are emphasised (later sections reveal how this also feeds into withdrawals and designation of insufficient evidence), at the expense of a careful investigation, in which the evidence collected is evaluated.[6][7][8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape
Archae
(46,260 posts)This is why I ask for all the facts to be in before an accusation and/or judgment is made.
A 13-year old girl takes a picture of herself topless, and sends it around?
markpkessinger
(8,381 posts)Dude, what you don't seem to get is that it simply does not matter how sexually precocious a 13-year-old is, or how seductive she might be, or even how much she is (alleged) to have "wanted" it. NONE of that in any way mitigates the responsibility of any adult, when choosing to have sex, to be certain of the age of their potential sexual partner. And if they choose to have sex with someone of whose age they are uncertain, then they are undertaking the risk that the person might be underage, and thus are assuming the risk of criminal prosecution that goes along with that. PERIOD. There are no "Yeah, buts" in this. There are no mitigating factors. Statutory rape is statutory rape.