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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat Police Found in Adam Lanza's Home:
Last edited Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:08 PM - Edit history (3)
Reporters are still digging through the documents (you can check out four of the search warrants here), but among the early takeaways:
A Gun Safe: Hartford Courant: "Investigators found a gun safe belonging to Nancy Lanza, the shooter's mother, open and with no evidence that it had been broken into. Adama Lanza shot and killed his mother at their home before going on his rampage at the school, police have said. Police found three photographs of a dead person covered in plastic and blood. The warrants do not indicate whether authorities know the identity of the person. They confiscated a military-style uniform from Adam Lanza's bedroom, the warrants indicate."
1,600 Rounds: CNN: "Investigators found more than 1,600 rounds of ammunition in the house, and a holiday card with a check 'made out to Adam Lanza for the purchase of a C183 (firearm), authored by Nancy Lanza,' according to a search warrant."
Guns as Gifts: Associated Press: "Investigators found a holiday card containing a check made out to Lanza for the purchase of a firearm, authored by his mother, Nancy Lanza. Adam Lanza shot and killed his mother in their Newtown home before driving to the school to carry out the massacre."
Samurai Swords: Yahoo! News: "In addition to several guns inside the home, police also recovered three Samurai swords and long pole with a blade on one side and a spear on the other. Inside the car the shooter drove to the school, officers recovered a 12-gauge shotgun and two magazines containing 70 rounds of ammunition, the documents show."
Reading Material: NBC News: "Also recovered were a National Rifle Association certificate, seven of Lanzas journals, drawings that he made and books, including an NRA guide to the basics of pistol shooting, authorities said. Other books included Look at Me: My Life with Aspergers and Born on a Blue Day: Inside the Mind of an Autistic Savant. Among the other items seized were a holiday card containing a check from his mother to buy a firearm, an article from The New York Times about a school shooting at Northern Illinois University and three photographs of what appeared to be a dead person covered with plastic and blood."
link
Squinch
(50,911 posts)covered with plastic and blood."
Jesus, Mary and Frank! What the hell could that be?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)or i guess they could even be hollywood movie stills
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Response to trailmonkee (Original post)
NYC_SKP This message was self-deleted by its author.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)In the past 3 months there are more than a dozen published commentaries by professionals saying the same thing.
I post this not because you would be dissuaded from your opinion, but merely to offset it for other readers.
B2G
(9,766 posts)But that doesn't stop some people from foaming at the mouth about it here.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Targets resembling humans; melons and bottles that explode like human "heads;" practicing drawing/shooting people in front of mirrors; etc.
Lots of people are just like Lanza, Holmes, Stawicki, Loughner, Zimmerman, son of the NRA's President, etc. -- so-called "responsible gun owners" right up until the shoot someone.
B2G
(9,766 posts)He wasn't legally old enough to possess them.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Fact is Lanza was a gun nut, drooling over lethal weapons like plenty of other gun cultists who haven't shot or intimidated someone -- yet.
Heck, the son of the President of the NRA shot someone in a road rage incident.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)and I got my first gun from my Pop when I was ten. Dad and I used to shoot at old cans. It did not use to be a big deal back in the day. Different time.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)But, that was then.
My dad was an accomplished target shooters, and I loved guns. But darn, this is different. Too many dangerous people with guns nowadays, and not just those who are legally criminal. Would have been better off if the spigot had been restricted way back then.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)She might have been a "responsible" gun owner.
Pretty amusing that his mother thought that he should have the guns, and since when in the "sacred" second amendment does it specify an age? As a matter of fact, where does it state what kinds of arms one has the right to bear? If these have the same meaning as some would state the "sacred" second amendment has, then there should be no problem with a newborn having a shoulder mounted tactical nuclear missile. After all it is a form of arms, and ANYONE should have the right to keep and "bear" arms, and that right shall not ever be infringed.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)His mother steeped him in the gun culture.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)Paladin
(28,243 posts)....but I've heard that when the Army hands an 18 year-old a firearm, a certain amount of training and rigorous supervision comes with it. As opposed to Adam Lanza's "teachings" from his mother, and his goddamn certificate from the NRA.....
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)On the other hand, it can be good exercise (mind and body). Unless one is bent on beating someone to death at first opportunity, is much less toxic than getting all into guns and crud.
However, I've met a bunch of "martial artists" who are just bullies, similar gun toters.
I think you indicate your are into both.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)My dad sent me to Tae Kwon Do lessons for a month back when I was 7. You do your cause a disservice when your every assumption is based on cheap caricatures.
So I won't stop you.
MoclipsHumptulips
(59 posts)n/t
CobblePuller
(38 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)remarkably small. Less than 00.00004% for both. Stereotypes of the dangerousness of legal gun owners as well as persons with mental illness aren't justified by such numbers.
If we play with numbers we can get to frustrating endpoints...examination of the mass shootings since 1982 reveals that 100% of mass shootings involved bullets shot from firearms, and just shy of 53% of mass shooting involved persons who had been diagnosed, or on retrospect had clear symptoms of mental illness.
B2G
(9,766 posts)spanone
(135,791 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)probably less than that but you feel the need to have a gun. Shouldn't people have the right to protect themselves from gun nuts. It is in the constitution. The right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)I've never thought I needed much protection from snacks.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)door leading to the shooting range.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)those are our rights that are infringed by the NRA.
It is time for change.
PA Democrat
(13,225 posts)for universal background checks among other things. The vast majority of their politiccal donations got to REPUBLICANS.
Let me know when you can say the same about people with autism.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Separate funds are set up and manged for that. Same with just about any non-profit.
PA Democrat
(13,225 posts)But I would counter that the NRA provides in-kind donations with all of the action alert emails they send out to their members, with their website, their scorecards for politicians, etc.
The NRA promotes membership as a means to defend the second amendment. They have become first and foremost a political advocacy group that promotes the election of mostly Republican politicians.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Its the same process as many unions and other organizations use. Well understood.
I know members who belong for the insurance or certifications but don't give a dime to their PACs. If they had alternatives, they would go elsewhere.
olddots
(10,237 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I'm going to self delete my reply above because it is already being misunderstood.
With the books, the boy was quite possibly trying to understand some emotional or mental issues he was experiencing. Thus, aware of something "in his head".
The mom also seems to have had issues, emotional or social, some kind of blind side to her son's condition and an inexplicable desire to give him guns.
Of course, I don't know either individual, but the books and the ammo indicate problems in the home.
I never meant to suggest anything more than a correlation, not a causation.
Peace.
Shivering Jemmy
(900 posts)Are you being sarcastic?
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)That is one hell of a fucking thing to say about those with aspergers.
WTF is it with this inability of some to understand that not every damned person who is not neurotypical is a fucking threat to society?
Between people calling one mentally ill woman a baby killer and now this casual shit comment of yours I have to think some of you lack the empathy of a worm.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)gift of a firearm to her child.
Nancy Lanza was complicit in that massacre.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)with paranoid crazy shit - almost abusive on her part considering his issues
link with list of warrant inventory(UK)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2300509/1-400-rounds-ammo-Samurai-swords-photos-dead-people-Warrants-reveal-chilling-haul-Adam-Lanzas-home--shot-155-bullets-minutes.html
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)I had crazy gun nut neighbors that shot a lot of people's property and one neighbor's pets(2) and gave their kids guns - no one in the neighborhood really cared or needed to see an official medical diagnosis to call them crazy or nuts
In fact the police called them nuts AND crazy!!!
I left them alone and moved.
The police calls alone to their house nights were enough noise without the having to watch your back outside. The little ones had BB guns....
Adj. 1. nuts - informal or slang terms for mentally irregular
nuts - informal or slang terms for mentally irregular; "it used to drive my husband nuts"
bats, batty, bonkers, buggy, crackers, daft, dotty, haywire, kookie, kooky, loco, loony, around the bend, balmy, round the bend, wacky, whacky, barmy, loopy, nutty, fruity, cracked
-
Based on WordNet 3.0, © 2003-2012
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)PBS' hours-long documentary about the Sandy Hook shootings and the documentation of how she tried to help him. Enough of the Inquisition.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to weapons of mass killing seem to be at cross-purposes.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Hopefully others will learn by her mistakes.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)But, yeah, she paid the ultimate price for her nuttiness.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Firearms in the house. The studies aren't exactly top-secret.
Anyone wishing to be responsible, and she had extra cause for concern, could/should easily have known better.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Kind of like that person who loves poisonous snakes and keeps them all over her house.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Wrong kind and number of guns. Nothing to indicate the rest of prepper storage was there either.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Hard to id the various subspecies of gun nuts by their arsenals.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)More data in the Brit press than has been in the American press up until now (presence of a 22LR). As for gun owner types, I offer up the following:
What kind of gun nut are you?
The term gun nut is tossed around here quite loosely. The problem is no one can agree on what the qualifications are and what separates a "good gun owner" from a gun nut. As the recently appointed worst Gungeoneer, this is my take on it. Though it may not be all inclusive, IME, gun owners fall into distinct groups but share some common features.
==============================
Accidental/Casual: Inherited it, used to hunt 20 years ago etc. Firearm is inactive, in a closet somewhere (unsecured) no one knows where the ammo is.
Self Defense Only: Generally a newer owner, most likely a modern semi automatic handgun. One per adult, with the occasionally a .22LR pistol for low cost practice. No long guns. Meticulous about safety and securing weapons. Likely to have a CCW and carry at least part of the time.
Hunter/Outdoorman: Shotgun(s), hunting rifles which may include semi autos depending on the age of the owner. A hand gun or two, mostly older. A .22LR would be expected. Not always secured well. Might have an AR. Maybe a self defense hand gun or shotgun. Unlikely to have a CCW
Shooting Sports: Long guns depend on the sport, shotguns for clays, rifles for other kinds of shooting. An AR format rifle would be expected. Lots of handguns if a competitor there, otherwise 2-3 would be about the norm. .22LR rifles and pistol would also be there. Maybe a historic piece or two. Cowboy shooters also have a different mix, mostly reproductions of antique designs. Tend to be organized and keeps thing secured. May or may not have a CCW
Collector: Lots of weapons, mostly older, depends on the period of interest. Instead of 44Magnum with a laser sight, you might find a Webley or a SA Colt. Like most shooters .22LR and an AR would not be unusual. Tends to have some in display cases vice safes. Unlikely to have a CCW
Survivalist: Heavy focus on military style weapons with multiple copies within a family. Would also have shotguns, long range rifle, and .22LR weapons. Tend to secure things well and often wants to fly under the radar. Many hide it from friends and even family. Will have a CCW if its available and carries.
Gun Nuts: Different from the above since they focus on guns and not other activities. Rarer than some here think in that their lives revolve around guns. A Hunter type might wear camo in the field. These guys wear camo underwear. These types tend to have diverse and growing collections, without a lot of duplicates. Very big into accessorizing in addition to getting lots of firearms. Tends to secure them but also distributes a few for easy reach. Scary to most other gun owners. Will have a CCW if its available and carries.
Thugs/Criminals: Guns are integral to gang life, they are not called gang bangers for nothing. Guns are a statement of who they are but there goal is respect etc. They have modern pistols, mostly of better quality. Occasional semi auto rifles. All weapons possessed illegally and either stolen or straw purchased. Carries without a CCW. Poorly trained. Most dangerous of all groups and responsible for most gun violence in the country.
I am sure there are more groups that I could enumerate, but that is what comes to mind at the moment.
====================
Some thoughts on the above: Current numbers of households with firearms are mostly based on self identification, which is always questionable. I am comfortable with about 40-60% of American households having firearms, somewhere close to half. However the number of ones with active shooters is no more than 30%, quite possibly less. This is as much based on my experience than any scientific polls.
Its clear to me than numbers alone or the possession of one kind of firearm or another is not a primary indicator of gun nuttery or which group a person falls into. Its a fair bet that a trap or skeet shooter has many shotguns, but what else they have is impossible to tell. A collector with every WWI bolt action every made probably has an AR as well. Just about every gun owner has has some kind of .22LR.
One thing is clear, is that outside of the first two groups, anyone who is comfortable with firearms and likes using them is going to have a growing collection over time. Most don't sell anything they own. I fall into that category. I have never sold a weapon once I owned it. Its a hassle and I did not want the responsibility and liability. Easier just to move it to the back of the safe. That is changing for me now.
So in summary, there are many different types of gun owners, and most of them IME are not gun nuts (which clearly do exist). The issue is not number, or kind, but intent and attitude.Those not familiar with the different groups lump them all together. That is dumb, but it is happening with increasing frequency ("all gun owners have blood on their hands" . It polarizes the debate and ultimately reduces the opportunity for effective dialog and reform.
====================
Mrs Lanza, by all appearances was a sport shooter more than anything else.
CobblePuller
(38 posts)Your predjudice is obvious.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Smash her with all you got. She is the new enemy.
Above all, do not learn about what she tried to do.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)malaise
(268,693 posts)Notice that he didn't break into the safe
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)My children, who are all adults and military trained, don't have access to my secured storage on a routine basis.
It may have been a trust thing, who knows at this point.
I have heard others speculate that he forced it out of her, but there has been nothing to support that to date.
malaise
(268,693 posts)when she bought him all his weapons
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)However, I secured them and controlled access. I assume his parents did the same while he was younger.
Unless the brother speaks up, I am not sure we will ever really know how things were in that home.
malaise
(268,693 posts)The brother or their father may speak one day
No Vested Interest
(5,164 posts)they were both gun enthusiasts.
Remember, Adam was brilliant in some ways. Inasmuch as he was focused on guns and his plans to commit mayhem, you can be sure that he made it his business to know where the gun safe was and how to get into it. He was in the house virtually all day every day; I doubt there were any secrets there that he was not aware of.
Nancy told her friends in the bar she frequented that she was "losing" him. She knew at some level that he was going deeper and deeper into his coming act, though she likely didn't realize it involved the violence he perpetrated.
malaise
(268,693 posts)How did he accumulate all that ammo? 10 thirty round clips were at the scene of the slaughter
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)Well, not anymore.
Who the fuck gives someone with a pronounced mental illness a gift of a FIREARM????
I could say more, but I'll stop here.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)That's scary stuff.
Crepuscular
(1,057 posts)What kind of firearm is a C183?
kudzu22
(1,273 posts)but it probably has one of those high-capacity memory cards
http://www.amazon.com/Kodak-EasyShare-Digital-Camera-Optical/dp/B004O09H6U
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Seems to me only he would have any useful info into what was really going on in that family.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)the content of the conversation hasn't been shared.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Also... I'm not sure the dad would know as much as the brother... since he appears to have been out of the house for a number of years and not close w. at least Adam.
Maybe not w. Ryan either.
But Ryan was IN THE HOUSE....until recently.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)What is society looking for other than things that went wrong within the family?
It follows pretty quickly that once society has something to blame on the family they will look to blame members of the family. Shunning, discrimination etc, will follow. Who is up for that?
I don't have any mass killers among my brothers, but there isn't one of the 3 of them for whom I would want to be accountable for understanding, or contributing to the development of, his behavior.
Even if I wanted to, I couldn't begin to explain some of the behaviors of my brothers.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)... their privacy. I'm surprised that they are ABLE to.
And ......I don't blame the public for wanting to know more, either. I'm curious myself.
I'd like to know that there was NOTHING wrong w. the family... other than the standard issue crazinesses that all families have. And it seems the Lanzas had their shsre of these... the Adam "situation" aside.
But possibly not MORE than their share. I'm inclined to be sympathetic toward both the dad... and especially... the brother.
They just had their whole family wiped out.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I'm surprised he didn't flee the country.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)... she was dealing w. what was undoubtedly a profoundly troubling and puzzling burden in raising Adam. By *herself*.
I can't explain the gun-mania other than the obvious: lots of people look to guns ( irrationally, of course) as a way to find solace/protection/comfort. When Adam expressed an interest in guns, she may have thought it was good that he had an interest in *something*. I didn't know Adam but I know a lot of kids/adults on the Autism Spectrum and a very common theme is the curtailment and narrowing of interests. This leads to and exacerbates their social isolation.
As crazy as it sounds now, Nancy may have thought ... not unreasonably... that this was an interest that Adam could potentially *share* ... like other people share a love of golf/comic books/ tennis/ maj jong/ boating/ etc etc etc. ( She was from NH, ferchrissstsakes. It ---gun enthusiasm--- is mainstream there . ) She might have thought this was a way he could connect to other people and build relationships. Something that EVERYONE agrees was the one thing that Adam could NOT do.
Not unrelatedly... the NYT reports this morning ... not for the first time... that he was bullied ( as most Asperger's/autism kids are) by the neuro-typical kids in his HS. To the point where Nancy at least thought he should leave school. ( That sounds like some SERIOUS bullying.) In another context... Adam's attack would have sparked a dialogue about THAT aspect of it.... much as it did with Columbine.
The bullies are getting a big break w. this fixation on crazy, evil "gun-nut Mom."
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)The kid never had a chance with such a freak-of-a-mom.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)lastlib
(23,152 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)Plus of course 26 innocent people. Almost all because she fucked up.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Unlocked gun cabinets; giving her autistic son a firearm; promoting a gun culture overall to her son?
Sure... she had nothing to do with the carnage at Newtown.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Paladin
(28,243 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)-George Santayana
morningfog
(18,115 posts)mentally ill child weapons. She is a major cause of what happened. THey were her guns, she encouraged him to use them.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)Ganja Ninja
(15,953 posts)more responsible for his killing spree than he was. Having this kind of weaponry fetish is something you'd expect from a hardcore biker/redneck/gang member/militia men. Outwardly this woman looked like an upper middle class divorcee living the good life in an upper class suburban neighborhood. The reports of her being a "survivalist" really don't paint an accurate description of what this kid was living with. His day to day life with a woman obsessed with an apocalyptic vision of the future must have screwed with his head. Lord knows what a steady viewing diet of the likes of Glenn Beck could do to someone that is facing a difficult time as it is without being subjected to that.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)Good points.
The mother was responsible for this.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Most of the family gouge comes from a single somewhat questionable source.
Feel free to attack the mother all you want, but at least have some basis for it.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)She is actually the new demo they are going after
http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=2bf68a33-b3b6-48b8-9700-4d6012fc69d6
morningfog
(18,115 posts)bluestate10
(10,942 posts)many murders waiting to happen in that house. What sane person would have a weaponized pole?
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Apparently they were secured from at least outsiders
jmg257
(11,996 posts)And this dumb ass never even realized how big she fucked up.
Moses2SandyKoufax
(1,290 posts)of the fact that the greatest threat to their safety is inside their own homes.
JI7
(89,239 posts)from .....................................
Robb
(39,665 posts)Absent that training, he might've missed some of those kids.
The NRA does NOT get a pass.
sfpcjock
(1,936 posts)Is this 'death by offspring?'
Someone said that the old lady was a survivalist, so I guess it partly fits.