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niyad

(113,257 posts)
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 07:38 PM Mar 2013

abigail adams to john adams


1776: Abigail Adams writes to her husband, John Adams: "If particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation."
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abigail adams to john adams (Original Post) niyad Mar 2013 OP
Jackie Speier posted that quote on Facebook yesterday. Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #1
it is one of my favourites niyad Mar 2013 #4
DU Rec Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2013 #2
I adore Abigail MadrasT Mar 2013 #3
The world will be saved by the western woman. -- Dalai Lama alterfurz Mar 2013 #5
They wrote wonderful letters to each other over the years. Brigid Mar 2013 #6
K&R midnight Mar 2013 #7
Excellent. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #8
funny??? niyad Mar 2013 #10
I guess I took it wrong. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #12
no, it was about the new constitution and women's place (or lack thereof) in it niyad Mar 2013 #17
Boy, I just ran afoul of the smartest guy in the room. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #22
no, you did not run afoul of the smartest guy in the room, and, that quote of abigail's is fairly niyad Mar 2013 #27
I just looked at your page and saw that you're a woman. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #31
there isn't anything on my page about my sex, you know. and, I don't know what kind of coffee niyad Mar 2013 #33
I'm sure I'm much too pedestrian for your pals. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #35
nah, I think you might actually enjoy yourself. none of us actually bite or anything, and the topic niyad Mar 2013 #36
I was just being humorous. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #38
THATS AWESOME. Volaris Mar 2013 #25
that might prove helpful niyad Mar 2013 #28
lol yeah, because it's the same argument Volaris Mar 2013 #15
So I was right that there was some humor in there. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #21
Sarcasm isn't new, even IF it didn't used to have a smiley. Volaris Mar 2013 #23
did you actually read those two paragraphs? if so, please explain the humour. niyad Mar 2013 #24
Ya know, it's been a long month, I'm just not in the mood for a flame war about Abigail Adams UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #26
it has been a long month, and nobody is starting any flame wars. but you go right on feeling niyad Mar 2013 #29
K & R !!! WillyT Mar 2013 #9
K&R defacto7 Mar 2013 #11
I wonder what her thoughts would be in 200 years later in 1976 snooper2 Mar 2013 #13
And here we are in 2013, CrispyQ Mar 2013 #14
I agree with that sign--have been saying this for ages. niyad Mar 2013 #19
whenever I hear that bs about "american women have it so much better", my response is, "but niyad Mar 2013 #30
The best play we read while learning all about drama.... WCGreen Mar 2013 #16
been advocating that for decades niyad Mar 2013 #18
Word! (nt) NYC_SKP Mar 2013 #20
I think he had her arrested under the Alien and Sedition Acts. GodlessBiker Mar 2013 #32
I used to teach that letter to h.s. students. :-) WinkyDink Mar 2013 #34
so glad to hear that niyad Mar 2013 #37
Same unit as "Ain't I a Woman?" by Sojourner Truth: WinkyDink Apr 2013 #39
and we never learned about these remarkable women except in the most cursory way even in niyad Apr 2013 #40
. . . niyad Apr 2013 #41
Gosh, it took until 1920 or so for us to get voting rights.... LeftInTX Apr 2013 #42
you are most welcome, and thank you for pointing that out. it is kind of sobering to realize niyad Apr 2013 #43
. . . . niyad Apr 2013 #44

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
6. They wrote wonderful letters to each other over the years.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 08:34 PM
Mar 2013

Good thing they aren't around today; all we would have is e-mails.

 

UnrepentantLiberal

(11,700 posts)
12. I guess I took it wrong.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:15 PM
Mar 2013

I thought she was saying their husbands weren't paying them enough attention. Seriousness (not being represented) mixed with some humor.

niyad

(113,257 posts)
17. no, it was about the new constitution and women's place (or lack thereof) in it
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:53 PM
Mar 2013

(reallllly? you thought she was complaining about being IGNORED? perhaps you ought to read up on our abigail a bit --or watch the hbo series "john adams&quot

letter of abigail adams to joh adams, 31 mar 1776:

. . . .



Tho we felicitate ourselves, we sympathize with those who are trembling least the Lot of Boston should be theirs. But they cannot be in similar circumstances unless pusilanimity and cowardise should take possession of them. They have time and warning given them to see the Evil and shun it.-I long to hear that you have declared an independancy-and by the way in the new Code of Laws which I suppose it will be necessary for you to make I desire you would Remember the Ladies, and be more generous and favourable to them than your ancestors. Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the Husbands. Remember all Men would be tyrants if they could. If perticuliar care and attention is not paid to the Laidies we are determined to foment a Rebelion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any Laws in which we have no voice, or Representation.

That your Sex are Naturally Tyrannical is a Truth so thoroughly established as to admit of no dispute, but such of you as wish to be happy willingly give up the harsh title of Master for the more tender and endearing one of Friend. Why then, not put it out of the power of the vicious and the Lawless to use us with cruelty and indignity with impunity. Men of Sense in all Ages abhor those customs which treat us only as the vassals of your Sex. Regard us then as Beings placed by providence under your protection and in immitation of the Supreem Being make use of that power only for our happiness.

. . . .

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/adams/filmmore/ps_ladies.html

 

UnrepentantLiberal

(11,700 posts)
22. Boy, I just ran afoul of the smartest guy in the room.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 10:23 PM
Mar 2013

Is there a figure in American history that you don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of?

niyad

(113,257 posts)
27. no, you did not run afoul of the smartest guy in the room, and, that quote of abigail's is fairly
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 10:34 PM
Mar 2013

well-known, not exactly a secret.

 

UnrepentantLiberal

(11,700 posts)
31. I just looked at your page and saw that you're a woman.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 10:42 PM
Mar 2013

So I got that wrong too. I'd guess that most people you'd meet in a coffee shop wouldn't be familiar with that quote. Unless it happened to be me. I'll never forget it.

niyad

(113,257 posts)
33. there isn't anything on my page about my sex, you know. and, I don't know what kind of coffee
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 10:50 PM
Mar 2013

shops you frequent, but people at the ones to which I give my custom are pretty smart and well-read. you are always welcome to join us.

niyad

(113,257 posts)
36. nah, I think you might actually enjoy yourself. none of us actually bite or anything, and the topic
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 11:03 PM
Mar 2013

of conversation cover all manner of topics, from the sublime to the ridiculous.

 

UnrepentantLiberal

(11,700 posts)
38. I was just being humorous.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 11:36 PM
Mar 2013

I'm sure I would enjoy them. I never get tired of talking about history.

Volaris

(10,270 posts)
25. THATS AWESOME.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 10:30 PM
Mar 2013

Next time there's a thread up advocating rape apology, I'm going to cross-post that second paragraph.

Volaris

(10,270 posts)
15. lol yeah, because it's the same argument
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:34 PM
Mar 2013

that the MEN of the Colonies used to justify starting a war with The Crown, and both of them knew it. Abigail had a wicked-smart sense of humor, and used it more often than not to tell Her Man when she thought he and his co-horts were engaged in intellectual dishonesty. It's one of the things John loved about her.

She was America's first "Modern" woman.

 

UnrepentantLiberal

(11,700 posts)
26. Ya know, it's been a long month, I'm just not in the mood for a flame war about Abigail Adams
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 10:33 PM
Mar 2013

Maybe you should start a thread about Buckminster Fuller and beat people senseless with that.

niyad

(113,257 posts)
29. it has been a long month, and nobody is starting any flame wars. but you go right on feeling
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 10:38 PM
Mar 2013

aggrieved, if that is what makes you happy.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
13. I wonder what her thoughts would be in 200 years later in 1976
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:18 PM
Mar 2013

Those would be some memoirs to read...

CrispyQ

(36,457 posts)
14. And here we are in 2013,
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:33 PM
Mar 2013


Yes, we're further ahead than most women on the planet, but is that our standard? Really?

I'm sick of hearing, "American women have it so much better than other women." So we don't have any right to ask for better until all women, everywhere, have caught up? Does that sound like a logical strategy for any group trying to progress?

For all our progress, let me remind you of Steubenville, one of the most heinous rape crimes in our supposed civilized society. A group of young people, including girls, witnessing but not speaking out. Key members of the school & community involved in the cover up, for the sake of the football team. ~retch

~to the OP, 'you' is in the generic sense, not personal. Abigail would most certainly have taken the repubs to task last summer.



niyad

(113,257 posts)
19. I agree with that sign--have been saying this for ages.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:56 PM
Mar 2013

and, I do know it was the generic "you", not to worry.

I think abigail would have started the rebellion she threatened.

niyad

(113,257 posts)
30. whenever I hear that bs about "american women have it so much better", my response is, "but
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 10:40 PM
Mar 2013

this country was founded on so much more, wasn't it? the fact that we have it slightly better than others does not negate the fact that this country is not living up to its promised when it comes to women."

WCGreen

(45,558 posts)
16. The best play we read while learning all about drama....
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:35 PM
Mar 2013

back in Honors English my senior year...

Lysistrata (/laɪˈsɪstrətə/ or /ˌlɪsəˈstrɑːtə/; Attic Greek: Λυσιστράτη, "Army-disbander&quot is one of the few surviving plays written by Aristophanes. Originally performed in classical Athens in 411 BC, it is a comic account of one woman's extraordinary mission to end The Peloponnesian War. Lysistrata persuades the women of Greece to withhold sexual privileges from their husbands and lovers as a means of forcing the men to negotiate peace — a strategy, however, that inflames the battle between the sexes. The play is notable for being an early exposé of sexual relations in a male-dominated society. The dramatic structure represents a shift away from the conventions of Old Comedy, a trend typical of the author's career.[2] It was produced in the same year as Thesmophoriazusae, another play with a focus on gender-based issues, just two years after Athens' catastrophic defeat in the Sicilian Expedition

niyad

(113,257 posts)
40. and we never learned about these remarkable women except in the most cursory way even in
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 06:36 PM
Apr 2013

high school. thank goodness I was, and am, a reader.

LeftInTX

(25,241 posts)
42. Gosh, it took until 1920 or so for us to get voting rights....
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 07:16 PM
Apr 2013

It's one of those things that is baffling. I told my husband about the date and he is kinda shocked. (He went to all boys' schools, so maybe that's why he didn't know)

When we were born in the 1950s women had been voting for merely 35 years.

Thanks for the quote.

niyad

(113,257 posts)
43. you are most welcome, and thank you for pointing that out. it is kind of sobering to realize
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 07:24 PM
Apr 2013

that I have been alive for 2/3 of the time women have had the vote in this country.

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