Any Military Attorneys here? Or, does anybody know if

[gateley]

Bradley Manning is pretty much screwn? Does he even have a chance?

[Electric Monk]

1. Army general orders court-martial of US soldier Pfc. Bradley Manning in WikiLeaks case

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-security/army-general-orders-court-martial-of-us-soldier-pfc-bradley-manning-in-wikileaks-case/2012/02/03/gIQA7y7unQ_story.html

By Associated Press, Updated: Friday, February 3, 7:51 PM

HAGERSTOWN, Md. — An Army officer ordered a court-martial Friday for a low-ranking intelligence analyst charged in the biggest leak of classified information in U.S. history.

Military District of Washington commander Maj. Gen. Michael Linnington referred all charges against Pfc. Bradley Manning to a general court-martial, the Army said in a statement.

(snip)

The 24-year-old Crescent, Okla., native faces 22 counts, including aiding the enemy. He could be imprisoned for life if convicted of that charge.

A judge who is yet to be appointed will set the trial date.

Manning’s lead defense counsel, civilian attorney David Coombs, didn’t immediately return a call Friday evening seeking comment on the decision.

more

[elleng]

2. He's got defense counsel; we shall see.

Surely Army doesn't want black eyes, but ? ? ?

[gateley]

3. That didn't stop them from essentially TORTURING him, so I don't know if they

even care.

[gateley]

4. Thanks -- but that's what prompted my question. I'm curious if there's anything remotely

approaching a "fair trial" during a court martial. I wonder if anyone is ever declared "not guilty".

EDIT to say -- I really could have been more clear in my question! Sorry!

[malthaussen]

5. Courts martial vary, as do all courts

It is quite possible to be acquitted in a court martial. Some people contend that courts martial are a fairer deal than civil courts.

That being said, we're talking here about a very high-profile and inflammatory court martial. So one would expect it to turn into a zoo. One would expect any trial of this case to be a zoo.

[gateley]

12. Yeah, he's been tried and found guilty already. They say he has

some problems (mental/emotional) -- would they take that into account? Or is it just black and white? Do they just follow the letter of the law or is there hope of some actual justice?

Okay, I'm done pummeling you with questions now.

[chained]

7. Not Guilty is never rendered in a U.S. Court.

The word you are looking for is aquitted. This is diffrent from not guilty because it simply means that there was not enough evidence to convict. Military Court is grossly diffrent from a typical American court, and a person standing before the court has considerably less rights than we enjoy.

[msanthrope]

8. 'Not guilty' is rendered in U.S. courts.

You are forgetting that insanity and other capacity defenses can produce verdicts that state 'not guilty' or 'not responsible.'

These are relatively rare, but they do happen.

[jmowreader]

20. Actually, yes there is

IIRC it was F. Lee Bailey who said if he had an innocent defendant in front of him, he'd much rather take the case to a court-martial than to a civilian court. The big difference is, military judges aren't elected so they don't need lots of convictions if they want to keep their jobs.

Bradley Manning's problem is twofold: he really did it, and it's the most extensive release of classified materials in the history of the United States. Plus, he did it while a war is going on.

He's going to prison for the rest of his life.

[JSnuffy]

6. Manning is screwed...

...because of his own actions and not because of any railroading. He was a crap Soldier and a crap spy. Oh, and an accused woman beater as well.

[gateley]

13. Well okay, then. I guess I need look no further since you've already sentenced him. nt

[JSnuffy]

14. Not me...

... that happy moment will come from someone higher up the chain.

He isn't being picked on FFS. Is there really a doubt that he did this stuff?

I don't think anyone, including his lawyer, is arguing that. He chose to break his oath, violate his clearance and violate UCMJ. What logical result would you expect to come out of that?

[gateley]

17. I know, but I don't think they should have treated him as they did. He has to pay the piper --

but he's an American citizen for God's sake! It's bad enough when they treat "terrorists" (suspected!) that way, but one of our own citizens? That upsets me so bad I probably give him slack when he doesn't deserve it.

[sabrina 1]

30. Actually he abided by his oath. Too bad his superiors chose not to abide by theirs and act

on his reports of crimes taking place. When will their trials be, do you know?

He is whistleblower who exposed crimes. He is a hero. But you are correct in the sense that he will be convicted because we 'move on' from war crimes in this country and we punish the whistle-blowers. The rule of law, the oaths of office, are a mere sham. Words with no meaning.

[JSnuffy]

31. Says you... as someone who never had to live up to them...

... or am I wrong?

[sabrina 1]

33. I doubt I would have had his courage. Most of us do not. Not that I said I would. I said HE did.

So what was your point?

[JSnuffy]

35. My point...

... is that you have no clue what those words mean and it is blatantly obvious from everything you post.

[sabrina 1]

37. Seems pretty straighforward so long as it's taken seriously.

He swore to defend and protect the Constitution of the US. When he witnessed crimes he did his duty by reporting them to his superiors. They ignored the crimes, violating their own oaths of office. So I guess the oath is just words. He made the mistake of thinking he was supposed to take it seriously.

[MattBaggins]

34. Yeah I heard that he raped the horses and road off on the women

Just kill him outright.

[JSnuffy]

36. I had not heard that...

...

Of course, my points have a basis in fact. What about yours?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Court Martial: "Lead the guilty man in for a fair trial and sentencing."

[msanthrope]

11. Too bad that's what Manning signed up for.

I have little patience for those who sign up with the military, and then think they have special dispensation from the rules.

[msanthrope]

10. Not a chance in hell. And he has an excellent lawyer.

He's facing 22 counts. They've got forensic evidence on him that not only shows that he transmitted stuff, but that he found things, and colluded with Assange on what to steal.

That's really where he is screwed--the back and forth communication with Assange.

So far, his lawyer has tried a defense of 'gender identity.' Now, I get why Coombs is doing this...he's looking forward to sentencing, and appeals.

But I think we are going to see a plea deal...and Bradley Manning, if he's smart, will talk.

[gateley]

15. Gender identity? Well I hope he does plea.

I think how they held him is so wrong -- essentially torture. And they said they were concerned about his mental health -- I hope that's taken into consideration.

[JSnuffy]

16. If you would take a moment to educate yourself...

... you would know that the extensions and delays came almost entirely at the request of the defense.

However, I'd hate for any facts to trouble you. Carry on...

[gateley]

18. Thank you. nt

[msanthrope]

19. Quantico is single-occupant cell, only.

I find it very interesting that people complained that he was being held in 'solitary' when in fact, Quantico's brig only has single-occupant cells.

I also find it very interesting that his defense lawyer is arguing that he went into the military with mental health issues....but when he was put on suicide watch for his mental health issues, this was somehow wrong.

[gateley]

23. I'm sure he was treated very well. No pressure. No stress. And he probably

liked being nude all night long.

I find it interesting that people think that's an okay way to treat ANYBODY, much less a US serviceman.

[msanthrope]

25. Well, his supporters can't have it both ways--

Either he has great mental/stress issues like his attorney claimed, or he doesn't. If he does, then it's not surprising to me that he needed to be put on suicide watch.

[gateley]

26. But the suicide watch sounded more like harrassment. I just don't think they treated him fairly,

msanthrope. The conditions weren't what we would like to feel our prisoners -- civilian or military -- receive. I hate the treatment in GTMO.

I think he did a good thing, exposing what needed to see the light, but since he took that risk he'll have to pay the price. I'm not saying he should be excused, I'm just saying I hope he has a fair hearing and that they were treating him better.

[msanthrope]

27. Again, you can't have it both ways....I read Manning's filings, and he seemed to be making very

curious argument--that although his shrinks had put him on a valid suicide watch during 'x' period, the people responsible for guarding him could not then put him on suicide watch for 'y' period. Take a look at his 138 filing--he is essentially arguing that although he was put on suicide watch by the shrinks, in december of 2010, he should not have been on POI status at other times....

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_zC44SBaZPoMzMyNWExZmUtZjEzMS00ZjM2LWE3OWMtM2I4NzY5NDNkMmFh&hl=en&authkey=CMKgiogG

Now, this is a bit much--if Private Manning was, as his defense attorney claims. in severe distress over his identity problems, was it not then proper for his guards to take that seriously?

Apparently, before his arrest, Manning sent a superior a photo of himself dressed as a female. He maintained an online presence as 'Breanna Manning.' This superior only revealed this after Manning had been taken into custody in May of 2010.

Now, the defense is currently claiming that these actions are evidence of the great mental stress that Manning was under BEFORE he was even arrested.

So, let's take Manning's lawyer at his own word...his client was under great mental stress. He was then arrested. He was charged. He was then put under very restrictive conditions when his charges were refiled in January of 2011. He's facing a life sentence. Frack--he's actually still facing a death penalty if the jury and the convening authority decide he rates it.

FYI--as far as sleeping naked, what do you think happens under suicide watch? He was also given a blanket he could not tear, and a mattress with a pillow/headrest built in. That's pretty standard.

[sabrina 1]

32. Talk about what? That he was a whistle-blower reporting crimes and that his superiors

failed to live up to their oaths and stop those crimes? He abided by his oath of office. But I have no illusions about his fate in today's America. The war criminals make the rounds of TV shows selling their books filled with lies, and the good guys go to jail. Someday the words in oaths of office and the laws we claim to be so proud of, will actually mean something. Meantime, he is a hero, but will have to wait until this country finds its footing again and begins to abide by the law. It took decades in other countries, so Manning will have a long wait, but at least his conscience is clear. He expected what is happening to happen and did the right thing anyhow.

[jeanpalmer]

21. It's a kangaroo court

Has only the formalities, but not even the appearance, of justice, . Manning did the country a service. But will get punished severely for it.

Meanwhile, the ones in Vegas using their joysticks and drones to bomb innocent people in Afghanistan and Pakistan and the sickos killing people from helicopters will get rewarded with commendations. It's a sick system and an indictment of what this country has become. It has lost its morality and been taken over by a military mindset and machine against which we are powerless.

[Robb]

22. His attorney is throwing out "defenses" that have no chance of supporting acquittal.

They're all the sort of thing that's usually saved for sentencing hearings, to get less time in jail.

That's the biggest indicator I've seen of what to expect. But truly none of us know who has what at this point.

[gateley]

24. Thanks, Robb. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

28. Not only is it a kangaroo court, but the commander in chief already declared him guilty before trial

He's finished. He will spend the rest of his life in a military prison for doing the right thing.

Isn't America grand?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

29. He's never tried to deny that he committed serious offences, so I suspect he's pretty much screwn.

I suppose they might try to get the sentence reduced on grounds of diminished responsibility or something.

But there appears to be no doubt whatsoever that he is guilty, and so I expect him to get a long jail term.