Don't Be Fooled: Utter Bull@#$& re: Chained CPI

[MannyGoldstein]

There's actually a post on DU suggesting that The Banker White House's chained CPI garbage will not apply to the "bottom 20% of seniors". And a number of responses say that yes, that's true.

It's actually total bullshit.

The The Banker White House's proposal calls for a bit of relief if poor retirees make it through years of being austeritied. There's a good article on this at Kos, but this chart cuts to the chase:

?1365705798

Frankly, I have no idea of why this 20% exempt nonsense was posted, or why anyone responded that it was true. I hope it's as innocent as just failing to check out things they've been told.

But be warned: The Banker White House has been spewing lies about Social Security for years now, saying that Social Security needs to be adjusted because it wasn't originally intended for retirees, that it will probably not be able to pay full benefits in 25 years, and other crap. The crap will continue nonstop, through direct and indirect routes, until The Predator Class has gotten what it's paying Obama and the rest of our government for: the $3 Trillion (and growing) Social Security Trust Fund.

Do not acquiesce to the lies.

Do not let your guard down.

This is a war against the 99%, and it will be a war each and every day until the 1% have absolutely every last morsel, or until we get up off of our asses and take back America. Those are the only two possible outcomes.

[tokenlib]

1. And the "protections" are a bad joke for the masses...n/t

[haikugal]

2. Good post Manny...

I, for one, am not fooled by the propaganda being spewed by the BWH. Thanks!!

[TheProgressive]

3. It is indeed war...

In this corner:

The wealthy, the corporate wealthy, the 1 percent.
Congress, the Senate, and the President.
The News media.
The Radio media.
The ability to prosecute or not prosecute people and entities.
The ability to write and pass laws.
Wall Street
Health Insurance industry
Drug Industry.
Military and the Military-Congressional industrial complex
Food industry
Oil and Gas
The power to kill citizens without due process
The power to spy; illegal searches and seizers

And in this corner:

300 million Americans who have been thrown under the bus
with less income (wage stagnation)
less wealth (housing crisis heist)
high cost of living (gas, food, power)
minimal legal power



I am sure I miss a few items...

[Jim__]

4. A classic example of trying to put lipstick on a pig.

It's still a pig!

[NCTraveler]

5. Thank you for this Manny.

It is clear that certain groups have received their talking points this morning. It's kind of funny how the positive spin from a handful of posters started occurring around the same time.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

14. x2

[Oilwellian]

62. It was oh so obvious

My thought was, they're sitting next to each other at computer terminals comparing notes and talking points. Then it's time to get to work catapulting the propaganda.

[quinnox]

6. good post and a suggestion

don't refer to other duers or their threads in your OPs, at least not specifically, like links, but you can still talk in general terms about their arguments of course. Because it could start an argument in the hosts forum about whether your thread is "meta" or not. Give us hosts a break.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Done

Looking for truth and justice, not (gratuitous) trouble!

[quinnox]

11. thanks

[merrily]

80. Good info. Good

policy, too, to tell us what causes problems for hosts and therefore, possibly, eventually for posters.

[Wellstone ruled]

7. Love the new title(Banker White House),Manny nails it again.

After listening to Axlerod's jiburish and posturing with Rachel,folks,you know some really deep shit is coming our way. Axelrod and Gibbs are just Corporatist shills. This Chained CPI thing has been thrown out as raw meat before by the DLCers. Don't forget,tons of 1%ers ponyed up big bucks for Obama's reelection. It's pay back time,Prytrztkers and few others want their dues here. If you grew up in the Midwest,you are smart enough to know who the real players are and their end game. Hey,Capone was a piker compared to the new breed of hucksters.

[RainDog]

8. kick n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. And, some of the not-quite-poor enough will soon join the ranks of eligible.

[forestpath]

12. K&R

[snappyturtle]

13. Yes, yes, yes!

Perfect....love the Banker White House. Never forget the
first attempt through junior bush to privatize. The 1% is
just approaching that outcome from a different angle. imho

[Autumn]

15. Great post Manny

and thank you. I appreciate it.

[zeemike]

16. Meet every lie with the truth.

And repeat it as often as they repeat the lie...that is all you can do.

And that is why I am appreciating your righteous crusade for accountability.

[merrily]

81. Not enough hours in the day.

I would bet this is at least a part time for some of them.

[Cleita]

17. Thanks Manny. I'm amazed about how much

bull shit, originating from the Heritage Foundation, is being posted here and that so-called Dems are going for it. It's bad enough that our Democratic elected politicians are falling in line behind it.

[Rex]

18. It has been over an hour, where is the RAH RAH crowd?

They usually love coming in here and slamming you...guess it takes over an hour to google new talking points?

[Bluenorthwest]

20. They can't deal with facts, figures, citations

They deal in attitude and passive aggression, words where numbers should be and bullshit statements posed in question form.

[Rex]

22. Yet they tell us we are irrational and working off of emotions

I think I am seeing a pattern here. Wonder what the next talking point will be.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

32. Check out # 23, #29, et al.

Ugly personal attacks is all they've got.

[Rex]

33. Yes, amazing how they refuted the OP line by line.

With their brilliant commentary!

[lark]

35. pretty much on queue

[Skittles]

40. they're accusing anyone who dissents of being stupid, easily angered, irrational, racist, etc.

[Rex]

19. Hey, when you get away with destroying pensions

and 401ks you get cocky and think SS is next. Banksters should never be allowed in the WH.

[Cleita]

25. I think we need an amendment separating business from government

like the separation of church and state. Oh, wait a minute, they don't pay attention to that one either.

[Rex]

26. Yeah it seems that they wanted to make politics into a crappy reality TV show.

And expect us to want to watch it. And when we laugh and call them crass they get offended and patronize us. Call us names and then start playing the dividing game - which their loyalists jump in to serve as pawns on first move.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

21. Innovating clever falsehoods, and even repeating falsehoods, seem to energize the propagandists.

[MjolnirTime]

23. Still screaming, Manny?

Have you ever actually accomplished anything???

[Bluenorthwest]

27. That's a hell of an ugly personal attack without even an attempt to address the issue being

discussed. I assume you read the OP and had nothing but an insult to offer in response.

[tridim]

29. The first sentence of the OP is an insult and a lie. Typical Manny. nt

[Isoldeblue]

41. +1 n/m

[JDPriestly]

53. Please prove it. Let's see your evidence. Thank you.

[truedelphi]

55. Well, tridim, the CEPR does not agree with you.

A center of wonks, who are paid to think and write about such issues. And they agree with Manny and not with you.

But then, why does truth matter? It is for some people here, only enough to be cheerleading continually, no matter how deep the grave that is being dug by our Elite (of whom the President is one) for our nation's middle class.

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/reports/the-chained-cpi-a-painful-cut-in-social-security-benefits-and-a-stealth-tax-hike

[NorthCarolina]

92. That's just it isn't it?

They don't need to deal with "facts" because they cannot dispute the truth. Instead, they just need to keep the everyone focused on continually responding to their nonsense with back-and-forth tit-for-tat rhetoric, which prevents any real discussions from developing. If the sincere folks on this board were all to put each of these third-way distortion peddlers on ignore, they would immediately become powerless, and meaningful discussions of issues could ensue. Of course they no doubt have a reserve of new ID's they can go to, but lets face it...they would be immediately pegged with their first post under a new personna. For now though, they will just continue to derail the focus of discussions by keeping everyone hog-tied by continually spending their efforts in calling out their BS.

[sabrina 1]

94. So, where is the substance to this opinion? How is Manny's first sentence an 'insult and a lie'.

I could say the sky is green, the grass is blue, the dog is a cat. Opinions, everyone has them. Manny proved his point, how about you at least trying to prove yours?

[MjolnirTime]

30. It's the same as thousands, literally thousands, of other OPs by Manny. It's his thing.

But you already know that, don't you?

[Bluenorthwest]

34. I know what you wrote. An insult with no other content.

It's your thing, I guess.

[lark]

36. Just because you don't like it

doesn't mean it isn't so.

[Isoldeblue]

43. Yeppers! Like a typical drama queen.....

[treestar]

44. It is funny how some DUers are stuck on one thing

Tunnel vision probably develops. This poster is forever looking for reasons to believe SS is being destroyed and making the most of them.

[JDPriestly]

54. Do you have a chart that shows that Manny's chart is wrong?

If you don't think Manny is right, please show the numbers that prove him wrong. I haven't seen them anywhere.

[truedelphi]

57. Uh, so please explain to us then - how is it that Social Secutiy is NOT

being destroyed.

I entered the work force at the age of nineteen. Back in 1969.

The CONTRACT that I friggin' agreed to each time I paid into Social Security was that when I retired AT THE AGE OF FRIGGIN' 65, I would start receiving some 100% of benefits.

That contract has mysteriously been altered and chopped away at - so that now I get to retire at 67! And now adding insult to major injury, this CPI chained nonsense. meanwhile, the defense budget for 2014 remains at 600 billions of dollars - more than the worth of the next 21 nations combined!

Social Security is almost exclusively a middle class concern. Can I ask you, are you middle class? Are you a trust fund baby? Who the heck are you?

Since Bill Clinton took an ax to the Great Society programs, the overall life expectancy of America's poor has been on a downhill slide, and is somewhere around age 62 now. Most low-income Americans, and those far worse off, simply won't live long enough to qualify for Social Security. However, as long as they are able to keep working, they will continue to pay into Social Security, strengthening the already-strong program. The falling life expectancy of this nation's poor, and the steady growth of permanent poverty, should be considered when calculating projected costs.

[byeya]

61. You've lived it and seen your elected "leaders" of the 2-headed $$$ party renege on the contract

your insurance promised you. Each time it was We fixed it forever and each time it was a lie.

[truedelphi]

66. I agree.

And I have not been able to bring myself to vote for anyone I consider a member of the One Big Money Party, since I voted for Bustamante when Di Feinstein set that election up so Ahnold would win the gubernatorial race here in California.

[treestar]

74. It is not being destroyed.

It had its ups and downs. Clinton and Carter did things that cut back on it.

FDR had to compromise to get it through. Compromises that should have been unacceptable under the standards present day left wingers decry.

[Babel_17]

78. About the FDR analogy

FDR started with nothing and compromised to gain something.

Today we have an improved version of that, so in the spirit of FDR, we should compromise to gain something more.

Hopefully, in the future, they'll look back at us today like we look back at the progressives of the FDR period; creatures of our times but fighting the good fight.

[HiPointDem]

87. Carter raised SS taxes. Reagan raised taxes, cut benefits, raised the retirement age & taxed

benefits.

clinton increased the taxable portion of SS benefits and raised the amount seniors could earn before they lost a portion of their benefits.

[truedelphi]

89. Not only do I continue to disagree with

You, so does Mike Hudson.

This interview with him is rather easy to follow. He says what I have been saying. And he also talks about the utter dishonesty of this whole process.

[grahamhgreen]

98. SS does not add a nickel to the deficit, the only reason it's being attacked is to destroy it.

[just1voice]

79. Still whining, MjolnirTime?

It's the same thing you do all the time "But you already know that, don't you?".

Soc. Sec. is being stolen from every American, it's a major issue. Ad-hom attacks, not so major, LOL.

[Summer Hathaway]

103. You are absolutely the LAST person

on this website in a position to accuse anyone of posting "ugly personal attacks" in lieu of responding to an issue being discussed.

The VERY LAST PERSON.

[tridim]

28. He has never been right about anything and he knows it.

Maybe this time will be different.

[MjolnirTime]

31. Knowing doesn't stop the flailing. It just seems to make it more desperate.

[lark]

38. Seems he was right when he was statting President Obama would cut SSI.

Many on here went into uproar, he'd never do that, it's all just your hatred, etc. etc. Guess what, Manny ws right all along and the Obamabots like yourself were wrong.

[tridim]

49. I'm not an Obamabot. I just think he's a good President.

Do you have a link to the bill Obama signed that cut SSI benefits?

A link to Manny's glorious prediction would be nice too.

[AgingAmerican]

60. He has offered to cut Social Security benefits to the GOP as an austerity measure

If they went along with it, he would sign the cuts into law.

Irrefutable facts.

[tridim]

63. The poster claimed Obama has cut SSI benefits and apparently Manny predicted it.

[randome]

51. SSI is not the same as Social Security.

For accuracy's sake.

[reACTIONary]

73. SSI is "Supplemental Security Income"

The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program pays benefits to disabled adults and children who have limited income and resources.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pgm/ssi.htm

[truedelphi]

58. A therapist would let you know -

the activity you are partaking of is total projection.

[JDPriestly]

52. Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion?

The "Still screaming" post sounds rather "emotional."

Let's see some facts and figures, some charts maybe for a change.

Inanities are not helpful. Thanks for your courtesy and serious contributions to DU.

Manny got a chart. That's an accomplishment in and of itself. Is there a chart that refutes it?

[Marr]

70. And that is why no one takes you people seriously anymore.

The proper response for you was a simple apology for past rudeness, and a promise to keep your mouth shut on this issue from now on. Care to try it again?

[merrily]

82. There's no screaming in message boards.

[sabrina 1]

84. I know Manny has accomplished a lot. You, otoh I never saw here before. What, since you brought it

up, are your accomplishments?

[JEB]

24. Banker's White House indeed.

Thanks for posting.

[Safetykitten]

37. Get em' Manny. Good post.

[tridim]

50. "Get em"? What's that supposed to mean?

[ljm2002]

69. If I were to hazard a guess...

...it would mean to counter the deluge of "rah rah ain't President Obama just grand and if you don't think so you're an Obama hater and probably a racist and la la la I can't hear you" type posts.

Just a guess.

[tridim]

96. So people who support Democrats on DEMOCRATIC Underground are "them"? Check.

Wow, I'm learning a lot about what is really going on here. Thanks!

[ljm2002]

97. So you haven't noticed...

...there are a lot of people who think we should support the President 100% of the time and there are others, like myself, who feel free, even obligated, to express disagreement when he does something we disagree with?

Are you saying that anything less than 100% support for the President is disloyal? That WE aren't "Democrats"?

Well bless your heart.

[marions ghost]

39. True

"This is a war against the 99%, and it will be a war each and every day until the 1% have absolutely every last morsel, or until we get up off of our asses and take back America. Those are the only two possible outcomes."

We have to realize that they are out to take it all.

And what do we as average citizens, watching our Democracy flailing for dear life, DO about this?

Is this threat to Social Security intended to get us OFF our asses? Cause it sure makes me want to fight somebody or something.

[antigop]

42. "Actually, there’s been class warfare going on for the last 20 years, and my class has won. "

-- Warren Buffett

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/theres-been-class-warfare-for-the-last-20-years-and-my-class-has-won/2011/03/03/gIQApaFbAL_blog.html

BUFFETT: Actually, there’s been class warfare going on for the last 20 years, and my class has won. We’re the ones that have gotten our tax rates reduced dramatically.

[truedelphi]

59. + 1. n/t

[99Forever]

45. Right you are Manny.

These mfers are relentless and so we must be also. I already hear the sycophants here whining that we are getting tiresome."

Good! 'Cuz I am barely started.

[Oilwellian]

64. +1 What he said n/t

K&R

[AzDar]

46. K & R

[Skittles]

47. CORRECT

they need to ditch the meme not to worry because the rich and the poor won't get fucked, JUST EVERYONE ELSE!!!

[Oilwellian]

65. Hey!

Thanks for the new signature!

[Skittles]

71. LOL

[ProSense]

48. What do you think of

"The Banker White House's " other proposals: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022659823

President Obama has done more to help the poor and middle class than any President since LBJ
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022660715

[woo me with science]

56. Hear, hear.

We had a neighbor who occasionally would come by and shovel everyone's walk.

We loved that guy.

Thanks for all your work shoveling back the bullshit, over and over again....because this bullcrap is a lot more odious than snow.

[Zorra]

67. Heck, I wasn't fooled even long before I ever heard of chained CPI. LOL ~ July 2005:

82. I used to believe that. Now I believe that the DLCP may actually be

Edited on Fri Jul-15-05 09:21 PM by Zorra
(deliberately) responsible for the Democratic Party becoming and remaining a minority party, and we may not be able to defeat the republicans until we get rid of the Dinos. Their agenda has not been at all effective, yet they continue to control the party. They even worked right alongside the republicans to paint Howard Dean as an extreme radical commie leftist in order to insure that he did not get the Democratic Presidential nomination, which they only allow for DLCP members.

What percentage of Democratic Party members/voters belongs to the DLCP, or even knows what the DLCP is? 15, maybe 25 percent at the most?

If the DLCP, as an organization, dropped off the face of the earth, most Democrats would not even notice. IMO, if we could get Democrats funded to defeat some of these Dino's like Elaine Tauscher and Mary Landrieu in primaries, it would be a good start toward clearing out that corporate snake pit called the DLC.

What many Dem voters do notice, IMO, is that the Democratic Party does not present a clear alternative to the republican agenda as an opposition party. My 68 year old former conservative republican uncle that has turned into a total Bu*h/republican hater expressed this to me recently. He hates Bu*h, says the republicans are like fascists, yet also says he may not vote anymore because the Democrats don't seem to be much different from the republicans. Although I regard this view as somewhat erroneous, I do see where someone could draw this conclusion based on DLCP policy and legislative voting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1629601&mesg_id=1631504

[sabrina 1]

68. I completely agree with you, that is what we have to focus on now since there is no point in wasting

time anymore on the current leadership, hoping the do the right thing, then being upset, over and over again when they do not.

It's time, as someone once said about war criminals, not to look back, but to look forward.

There ARE more of us than of them and this party badly needs a good cleaning out.

I think it can be done, if all those who got Democrats elected in 2008 and in the last election now redirect their efforts and money and time to making sure no Third Wayer or Corporate candidate gets one dime, on knock on one door, from them.

We on the left are a powerful force when we are united. This is how Obama got elected, by using that power. Now we need to use it for our own good. If it takes money, then we need to keep all of our money to donate only to candidates who are actual Democrats.

[Zorra]

72. Yep. If I'm still in the country in 2015, I'll hit the streets to campaign

for Elizabeth, or another capable genuine Democrat, in the prez primary.

If I leave the country, I'll campaign the ex-pats until I'm so annoying they will promise to vote for the good candidate just to get rid of me.

As many here already know, I can be really annoying; it's actually one of my best qualities


As far as 2014 goes, I live in rural AZ, so I'm forced do the best I can with what I have to work with in the midterms.

If we get another Corporatist Prez candidate, I will be definitely leaving the country by the end of 2018, and I won't bet looking back.

I've already had my fill of the transparent corporatist Dem BS.

[Triana]

75. "until we get up off of our asses and take back America" -

AND unless we get up off of our asses and take back OUR SOCIAL SECURITY MONEY.

It's OURS! And if it was stolen by the Fed handing it to greedy corprats (and much of it was) then THEY. MUST. PAY. IT. BACK.

But they don't want to. They want to just eliminate the program and get away with their years of thievery.

HELL. TO. THE. NO!!!

[MotherPetrie]

76. "The Banker White House" -- perfect. K&R.

[duffyduff]

83. It's an attempted bank heist

and more proof our government is run by gangsters.

[Fuddnik]

85. Kick and Rec!

[HiPointDem]

86. kr

[blackspade]

88. Great post.

It amazes me how some Democrats are rallying around this 'saving Social Security' garbage.

[tokenlib]

90. kick..

[NorthCarolina]

91. Great Post! Oh, and the Video in #89...superb.

[heaven05]

93. the

american system is in the toilet. Bought off or not. the leader of the 'bankers white house' knows if he goes against those bankers, the top of his head will be blown off also. Precedent, anyone? Please, all you whiners and Obama naysayers need to come to grips with reality. I'm on fixed income and the system has me terrified, yet I'd hate to see a repeat of Nov 22, 1963. I means the right has already said, 'we'll put the EXACT location of your daughters on vacation on the social web, never happened to genna unless she was making a fool of herself drunk somewhere or any white house occupant until this president. That set off alarms in my world. We'll never have a president of and for the 99% ever again. Lock, stock and barrel, the bankers, corporate media and the 1% romneypigs of this country and the world rule!

[Cooley Hurd]

95. When the budget is signed by the President, I will be massively pissed off!

Until then, I will reserve my outrage to facts, not speculation.

[Egalitarian Thug]

99. K&R. Thanks for posting. A lot of us have been talking about this for years now.

This is simply indicative of how this President has operated since before he was sworn in. After the election I was very hopeful, that didn't even last to the first inauguration. His initial appointments, and nearly all those since, have only affirmed my worst fears.

[woo me with science]

100. kick

[dkf]

101. How irresponsible of you to say the cuts upon expiration of the trust fund are a lie!

That is so deceptive and wrong and misleading and just as bad as any crappy used car salesman!

Shame shame shame on you!

If the cuts happen you are partly responsible if people are misled.

What is wrong with you? You could be helping people to make better decisions that will benefit them in life. Instead you give false assertions that you should know by now are untrue.

Well I feel I've done my part to try to educate people on how it all works. You have to live with yourself if you lead people down the wrong path.

You are acting no better than any real estate salesperson who told some sucker that they could afford that house and they could refinance because housing prices always go up.

[MannyGoldstein]

104. Which is not what I wrote.

But thanks for playing.

[dkf]

105. Then what is this?

"The Banker White House has been spewing lies about Social Security for years now, saying that Social Security needs to be adjusted because it wasn't originally intended for retirees, that it will probably not be able to pay full benefits in 25 years, and other crap"

These stats come from the Trustees own projections yet you claim it's a lie based on what?

Well as I said, when the people on this website get to retirement believing that all will be well with their social security checks, let that be on your conscience if you led them astray.

If I am wrong maybe people saved more than they ought to. If you are wrong you have f'ed them up.

[MannyGoldstein]

106. Do you see the difference between these two sentences?

1. It is unlikely that the Social Security Trust Fund will be exhausted in 25 years.
2. If the Social Security Trust Fund becomes exhausted, benefits will not be cut.

The first is what I wrote. The second is what you claim I wrote.

Bonus question: do you deny that the Banker White House has repeatedly lied about Social Security, and has engaged the fringe right to help it wage war against Social Security since its earliest days?

[idwiyo]

102. K&R