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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat about "shelter in place" do people not understand?
I am kind of pissed off by the many posts here from people who apparently do not understand the facts, let alone the dynamics, of this week's events. So I am recapitulating a response to a clueless post here as an OP.
The media called it a "lockdown" but that's what the media does; it conflates. It was, and always was, "shelter in place".
"Shelter in place" was voluntary. But Bostonians, who apparently have a few more brain cells than some here, realized that going out on the street in the middle of a huge crime investigation would have been kind of bad form.
So, Bostonians willingly stayed in their houses so as to not impede the already stressed out law enforcement forces who were, after all, looking for very bad dudes who blew up a whole lot of people.
They even helped!!! What a surprise!?
What would you have done? Have a street party in defiance?
Logical
(22,457 posts)And it did nothing. The guy was caught AFTER the request was lifted.
elleng
(130,864 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)dont seem to understand that Friday did nothing. They ended it because of it doing nothing. n-t
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)And believe it or not the world will not end if 'games' are canceled.
I live in a house with someone that is addicted to 'games' - football, baseball, basketball, soccer, golf, etc. - it is ridiculous.
A week without sports might be a good thing
elleng
(130,864 posts)How many streets, alleys and buildings were searched on Friday, found clear, keeping the kid on the run?
gateley
(62,683 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)Actually, they may very have lifted the ban because they finished their scan of the twenty square blocks that they had demarcated.
#2 was found in a boat at a residence just outside. Thank goodness that the good people of Boston were more than willing to trust in law enforcement. Were that not so, people would not have stayed home.
They did so because they were not willing to trade off rights to walk the street for causing trouble for the already stressed out law enforcement agencies.
After all, they caught both of the perps, the second one alive.
What about this do you not understand?
Logical
(22,457 posts)Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)What if he had somehow slipped out of Boston, out of Mass, and was headed for Florida? What if he was on the run for the next two months? You think the authorities would keep the shelter-in-home request going indefinitely?
longship
(40,416 posts)First, it was not a lockdown. It was, and always will be, a shelter in place.
Let me repeat that so I am not misunderstood. It was a shelter in place.
I do not give a tinker's curse what the news media called it. They conflate.
Again, I ask you. What you would have done when law enforcement asked you to stay home?
Well, there's always a block party...
Or maybe you'd comply in order to not make national news as the douchebag who threw the whole investigation off due to their callous disregard for a reasonable, and voluntary, request.
Cha
(297,137 posts)they wanted.. but, as you so astutely poinited out, longship, the smart people in Boston chose to abide because they wanted to do their part and keeping safe was an extra added perk.
It really went relatively well for them. RIP Sean Collier and the Victims of the bombing on April, 15, 2013.
longship
(40,416 posts)Last edited Sun Apr 21, 2013, 02:21 AM - Edit history (1)
Sheesh!
Where do people get off with claims that this was, in any way, either a mandatory let alone an enforced "lockdown".
I will pose the question one more time, albeit more forcefully. What the fuck would you do, hold a block party?
I, like sensible Bostonians, and putatively unlike others spewing shit here, would abide by law enforcement pleas to shelter in place.
In hindsight, that resulted in getting both of them, one alive.
People! Stop this rubbish, please.
Thanks for your post.
Cha
(297,137 posts)Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)Give the cops a break.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)Or is a snowstorm more dangerous than a terrorist bomber in your neighborhood?
Logical
(22,457 posts)Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)I thought it was the Watertown neighborhood they searched.
Logical
(22,457 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)fyi.
brooklynite
(94,501 posts)And the police couldn't be absolutely sure they had him cornered (which they didn't)?
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)Remind me, while the heavily armed bomber with apparently some spare explosive devices was fleeing through the streets being hunted by several thousand armed and jumpy law enforcement officuals how many innocent civilians got killed?
Get a sense of perspective. Lost wages<<<<< lives.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)A day or even a few off is not the end of the world.
Hekate
(90,642 posts)You can stick around during a mandatory evacuation for wildfire in California, but don't expect the first responders to come barging in to save your ass when your roof goes up in flames. They will be busy doing their real jobs.
brooklynite
(94,501 posts)Only people who seem to be complaining are sitting comfortable in front of their computers.
Hekate
(90,642 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)And people seem to recover.
elleng
(130,864 posts)marybourg
(12,618 posts)and drink. It's what the right means when they use the phrase "knee jerk". That segment frequents this forum in about the same percentage as they exist in the whole spectrum of the left. They will find something to be indignant about ( or pretend to be ) in every human action and interaction. It's a means of stirring the pot with the hope of eventual revolution. Nothing much to be done about it. Some outgrow it.
zeeland
(247 posts)statement to make of a "certain segment" of the political left. I'm thankful
for the people that have the guts and courage to question, complain make
known the issue they have with a given subject or situation. Attempting to
make people feel ashamed or immature for being the one to question or
express their indignation given what we all put up with on a daily basis,
and most often most graciously is annoying at best.
Revolution? I can't believe that was a serious conclusion you came to
to explain people's grievances.
Hekate
(90,642 posts)postulater
(5,075 posts)I had no idea what it meant.
Is 'shelter' being used as a verb? or a noun?
Is 'place' being used as a noun? or a verb?
Does it mean 'there is a shelter in a place'? or 'shelter something in some place'?
I had no idea.
Had they said something like 'stay inside' would have gotten it right away.
It just didn't make any sense to me.
OTOH if I lived anywhere near, I would have stayed at home that day.
Cha
(297,137 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)Did anyone even think about those with no good job protections?
As one who has always worked shift work, I'm crazed by those who don't understand it. Okay, so you work a normal day job, and if something like this ("shelter in place" and don't even ask me what I actually think of this because I'll tell you_), do you have any idea what it's like to have a job where if you don't work you don't get paid? Do you? Really?
fixed a typo
longship
(40,416 posts)Not that anybody not in that situation could answer appropriately. Certainly, they could not answer in context of those events.
So, consider this. Would you have gone to work anyway?
I wouldn't have. Maybe that's the difference between people. I thank goodness that Bostonians put general welfare above personal gain.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)that to lose one day's pay is significant.
Not everyone has a nice office job with paid leave and benefits. Really. Not everyone. Sort of like not everyone works a day job. Some significant percentage of people so shift work.
I work at a hospital. Should I have stayed home?
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)You would prefer people being out on the streets to be targets? Potential hostages? Collateral damage?
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)If that were your circumstance, that day, in that neighborhood, it would have been up to you to decide whether or not to leave and go about your business. Your choice. Staying home was voluntary.
Cha
(297,137 posts)a moot point.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)... winter snow days.
Cha
(297,137 posts)http://abcnews.go.com/US/blizzard-2013-fierce-storm-drops-feet-snow-northeast/story?id=18443349
We remember sharing this experience with our Mass friends, no doubt.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)in Minnesota, the mayors of Minneapolis and St. Paul often publicly request that businesses close and people stay home. The good thing is that there's usually enough warning before a blizzard to make sure you get to the grocery and liquor stores before it hits.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Jebus wept.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)Down here in Houston a few years ago I was without electricity for almost two weeks when the hurricane blew threw
So, I know how it is
PHOTO: Police Officer Delivers Milk to Watertown Family With Infant Son During #Boston Manhunt
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Justice
(7,185 posts)Makes perfect sense.
bottomofthehill
(8,329 posts)It limited the ability of slipping in with the commuter crowd and getting away
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Except we called it "duck and cover" and we were getting ready to be nuked by H Bombs.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)They didn't shut down the city.
longship
(40,416 posts)London, population 7.75 million, 660 square miles.
Boston, population 617,594, 48 square miles.
Gee, it really isn't the same, is it? Maybe finding a bomber in Boston is easier than in London.
In Boston one could ask people to shelter in place. In London, it's out of the question.
It's a matter of scale, my friend.
Normally, I love your posts, but I must respectfully disagree with this one.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)they didn't shut down the boroughs where the attacks occurred. (for a more direct comparison.)
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)I was there when the IRA was blowing things up, killing and maiming. When I watched the good people of Boston being terrorized by the bombings on Monday, I couldn't help but wonder if any of them had given money to the IRA.
Cha
(297,137 posts)and it worked for them.
longship
(40,416 posts)Some would make it out to be some kind of military takeover. Even some DUers here have spinned similar.
It was always a request to shelter in place. The media insisted in calling it a lockdown which mischaracterized Bostonians' resolve to assist in what can only be described as an extremely hazardous situation.
What would you have done under such a situation? Have a block party in defiance to defend your rights? Or would you shelter in place like Bostonians did.
Cha
(297,137 posts)where they didn't have any such requests. My bad, I should have been more clear.
longship
(40,416 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)the suspect was spotted and captured AFTER the lockdown was lifted.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)I don't understand what's wrong with people who don't get this. Are you childish, or contrary, or simply trying to be a jerk?
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Was it really necessary to shut down the whole city? Compared to London (not just 2005, but when the IRA were blowing up the Baltic Exchange, etc) it seems like a hysterical overreaction.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)WTF is the point of this OP anyway?
It was what it was. What difference could the name possibly make?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)"Shelter in place" is a pain if it happens when you are in someone else's bed.
"Curfew" makes it tough to sneak home from someone else's bed.
"Martial Law" means you can be busted by the army sneaking home from someone else's bed.
HTH.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Last edited Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:48 PM - Edit history (1)
And all of those things typically have some flexibility, even in the most totalitarian states.
Again, what difference does any of this make?
They asked a million people to stay home. They shut down the transit system. In certain neighborhoods, they demanded evacuation or remain in your house while they conducted door-to-door searches. That's a lockdown, in my book. If you don't like that term, use a different term. It just doesn't matter.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Citizens are expected to cooperate with police who are engaged in a "hot pursuit". Doesn't matter if it was an armed bomber or an armed bank robber. I'm sure they were on bullhorns.
The main thing is to get the guy and then tell everyone it's over and to "have a nice day."
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)I am not criticizing the actions the police took.
My only criticism of the government in this case is in the attempt to go outside the Constitution with Gestapo tactics on interrogation -- refusing to give the suspect his Miranda rights. This is insidious, unnecessary, and the actions of a country edging ever closer to a police state. But it has nothing to do with the OP in this thread.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)that these idiot mooks would be too damned dumb to flee the city ASAP. You can take the T straight to Logan and be out of town in a flash. I did it when I lived in Cambridge. I am so far left that I border on anarchism, and I have no problem with this given the circumstances.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Making a distinction without a difference, and insulting others in the process.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Gone to work.anyways. its not like the Boston pd would have stepped up to oay my rent lol
Cha
(297,137 posts)nakocal
(550 posts)If this terrorist act had happened in a republican controlled state the governor would have advised people to go shopping, there would have been several murders of minorities by gun owning cowards claiming that they were being threatened by their victims skin color, several mosques would have been attacked, and finally several police officers hunting the suspects would have been shot by gun owning cowards who will claim that they thought the police officers were the terrorist because they were carrying guns.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)wearing suicide bombvests running around, I would be more than happy to stay in my house and let the cops poke around for a minute to two to make sure no such maniac sneaked into my basement.
While I loathe cops as a general rule I have nothing but admiration for the professionalism of the Boston police in this episode. No grandstanding, no fearmongering, only a Joe Friday "just the facts" approach. Cops around the country should study the way the Boston police handled the last week.
I lived in Cambridge for three years while I was in law school and have a deep well of affection for Boston and its environs. As a sort of honorary Bostonian, I am proud of the way the city handled this awful week.
longship
(40,416 posts)You understand my OP. I am with you on both sides of the equation.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Last edited Sun Apr 21, 2013, 04:44 AM - Edit history (1)
It's easy enough to hide the dope. Police who are looking for an armed, and possibly suicide-bomb rigged guy aren't going to tear the cushions off the couch or throw the mattress off the bed or the couch looking for weed. Even skinny maniacs aren't able to hide between the cushions.
I hope Boston is partying its collective ass off this weekend. And if I know Boston, it is.
Hekate
(90,642 posts)I am finally convinced of that.
longship
(40,416 posts)But it may very well be that people let emotional reactions dominate over logic. It's when that happens that people's thinking goes astray. Humans are not inherently rational creatures. Skepticism is something that takes discipline and education in scientific thinking. Few have that; even here.
Thanks, my friend.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I will agree with you on that.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)these threads get. There is a segment here that have either zero reading comprehension or just want to stir non-existent shit. And no matter how many times people tell them this was voluntary they will not understand.
longship
(40,416 posts)They creep in through the crevasses, posting their home-spun conspiracies. It comes from a cultural milieu which has been crafted by decades of illogical, unskeptical thinking.
I try to fight it as best I can here. But I also try to get along with other DUers. Occasionally one has to throw caution to the wind and take a stand. This is one of those instances. I wonder if some people here actually paid attention to this week's events. My conclusion is, apparently not.
And it was so thoroughly and utterly documented, yet some still deny the reality in front of them.
Thanks.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Take your condescending posts to some other board.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)and you are now telling other people to post to other boards.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)brooklynite
(94,501 posts)...would you insist on your constitutional rights to go out and wash your car while the Police were surrounding the house and negotiating to get him to surrender? If the answer is "no", then all we're arguing about is a matter of scale.