Salon Article on Obama's H-1b chat exchange last week

[flexnor]

"A few days after the New York Times’ (embarrassingly belated and deeply flawed) article on Apple’s Chinese production facilities reignited a national discussion about offshore outsourcing, President Obama was confronted during a Google+ “hang out” about why during a brutal unemployment crisis his administration continues to support expanding the H-1B visa program that allows tech companies to annually import thousands of low-wage engineers from abroad. In his stunning answer, the president first expresses bewilderment that any American high-tech engineer could be out of work, because he says that “what industry tells me is that they don’t have enough (domestic) highly skilled engineers” and that “the word that we’re getting is that somebody (a domestic engineer) in a high-tech field should be able to find something right away."

full text

http://www.salon.com/2012/02/06/obamas_high_tech_labor_lies/singleton/

[FreakinDJ]

1. Ignorance at this point is No Excuse

Highly skilled US Tech Workers have been battling the H1B program for years.

In fact the H1B visa program was "Bought and Paid for" by the Electronics Manufacture's Association and was specifically designed to do exactly what it does - control wages of US Tech Workers by importing cheap labor to replace them

[flexnor]

10. No, at this point nobody can claim they 'dont know about it'

and it's very much intentional

but you have to give credit to yahoo for at least trying to dumb the public down, here are their top news stories today - really critical stuff

High school basketball’s 7'5" phenom

Beyoncé's postbaby body

Josh Powell's final message

Big secret on 'Bachelor'

Eastwood on Super Bowl ad

[kenfrequed]

11. This is basic labor history.

Really I know too many tech people that have previously embraced an Ayn Rand perspective and seem to think that this problem was caused by the left somehow. Idiots.

If they had studied anything about labor history they would know that the importation of workers has been done throughout American history to continually defy organization and to undercut wages.

[flexnor]

12. there were a few 'Ayn Rand' types in tech, but many weren't - I never was

and as a young programmer/analyst in manufacturing, I quickly concluded that the union plant guys were totally more in tune with reality than white collar workers

the union guys/gals didnt have contempt or disregard for the company's legitimate interests (as they are stereotyped as having)

they just werent fools about a ficticious benevolent 'corporate utopia'

they werent pessememists, nor did they want anything they didnt work hard for. they just werent STUPID

[kenfrequed]

13. Yeah.

I really shouldn't imply that there were lots of 'em. In my mind I can't imagine any logical thinking person actually accepting Rand's brand of nonsense. I knew of a couple of programmer sorts in college but they were not the majority by any strech of the imagination.

Of course in school the Rand kids usually were republicans trying to act that they were cool or that wanted a rationale for acting completely reptilian and self centered and still wanted to feel good about it.

Out in the workforce I would say that they are actually rare. Those that exist though tend to be loud.

[xchrom]

2. du rec. nt

[LiberalEsto]

3. the industry lies, period. nt

[flexnor]

9. the question isnt whether industry lies, it's

why are indu$try leader$ believed without que$tion, and why are the words of workers sumarily discarded, like they were in this exchange?

[hootinholler]

4. I am a very senior software developer, 20+ years in the industry

I have been unemployed for more that 3 months during both of the last 2 years.

My last salary was 30% below my peak salary which was in 2002.

I am living this shit right now. This article is spot on.

[flexnor]

5. 'what industry tells me is' --> think about that statement

"what industry tells me is "

didnt this party, once upon a time take the position that labor and management are not always of the same mind on every issue, and democrats would not shut down the opinions of someone from labor with a proclomation from management?

i think we've devolved into a good people/bad people paradigm, where ultra rich silicon valley types who support socially liberal causes OUTSIDE of their own labor shops get a total pass on their labor issues because they are 'good' and 'above question'. we group issues together, so that someone who supports the 'right' social issues must have a warm and fuzzy work environment with no need for oversight, and anyone who questions it must be a liar

steve jobs was like that, his wideow sat as a guest in the first lady's box - so who cares if his factories need suicide nets in china? (what have THOSE workers, or the American workers their cheap labor displaced, ever done for the party?)

[flexnor]

6. i challenge everyone

with the exception of Dick Durbin, can anyone find a quote from any leader in this party for the last 15 years, that acknowledges that the interests of labor and management in tech, are not always 'one and the same'?

99 percent of the quotes suggest suggest that the interests of management are ALWAYS the same as tech labor's, and that's what Obama's chat message was all about

'If I have rich friends who tell me somethng different, THEN YOU MUST BE WRONG!!!!"

[flexnor]

8. 2007 Senate tech labor hearing- 1 witness, Bill Gates

The senate had a labor hearing, with one witness, Bill Gates

Had Warren Buffet been invited as well, it would have LOWERED the average wealth of the witness list

Since when, do we accept that the richest man in the world alone, can fairly speak for every worker in the industry? Yet, the committee did not bat an eye, although a few seemed to bat a flirting eye toward him

If you could go back in time to learn about the labor conditions of the building of the pyramids, do you think the pharoah alone could give you a complete and balanced picture? Or would he be slightly biased?

[OhioChick]

7. You should've put the title as it is in the article:

Obama’s high-tech labor lies

The truth hurts, sometimes.

A hearty K&R

[Life Long Dem]

14. It's puzzling why Obama is so on top of most things except this.

[flexnor]

17. It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon

his not understanding it'

- Upton Sinclair, labor issue author

it's every bit as true today, as it was 100 years ago, when he probably was quoted as saing it

His 'The Jungle' was written in 1905 or 1906, as I recall

[Life Long Dem]

15. The President should support the bipartisan reforms proposed by Senators Durbin and Grassley.

U.S. Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) sent a letter Tuesday to chiding the president over some of his responses to Wedel's questions.

Grassley also said the online conversation encouraged him as well. For instance, Grassley zoomed in on the president's statement that "the H1-B should be reserved only for those companies who say they cannot find somebody in that particular field."

Grassley indicated that the this view of the president aligns with his own feelings about the visa.

"I have long believed that it's not unreasonable to ask businesses to first determine if there are qualified Americans to fill vacant positions," Grassley wrote in his letter to Obama, "It seems you may agree with this premise."

skip...

Obama's view that the H-1B visa should be reserved for those companies who say they cannot find workers with particular skills provides "a common-sense prescription for how the H-1B program should work," said Ron Hira, an associate professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology.

skip...

"If the President means what he says then he ought to support the common-sense bipartisan reforms that have been proposed by Senators Durbin and Grassley. It would ensure that the H-1B program actually meets the goals President Obama claims he wants for it," said Hira.

http://www.cio.com/article/699850/Obama_s_H_1B_Answer_in_Forum_May_Haunt_Him

[Yo_Mama]

16. Obama's spouting utter BS

Many high-tech companies are hiring only H1-Bs.

They have all these jobs posted, but if you are a high tech worker and you go inquire for one for a friend out of work, you'll be quietly told that those are H1-B positions. Everyone in the industry knows this.

It's only the small companies that hire US tech people any more, and that's because they don't have the knowledge to work the H1-B deal. There are legal groups that specialize in it.

It's a lot easier for many US high-tech grads to get a job in China or India than it is in the US, and that's just sick.