My son is 19--if he covered up for a friend who commited a terrorist act....

[trumad]

I would be deeply ashamed.

Some here are saying teenagers are just being teenagers.... sorry I don't buy that.

[rug]

1. Would you turn him in?

[madokie]

2. Yes I would

I know you didn't ask me

[newmember]

18. yes

[Dorian Gray]

33. No a question to me

but I would be appalled if my daughter did this. I would try to convince her to turn herself in before it got more out of hand.

His friends KNEW he had been responsible for three deaths and many more serious injuries.

[Codeine]

43. In a hot second. nt

[vinny9698]

62. I am using this as a teachable moment for me and my two teanage boys.

We discussed the consequences for helping friends cover up crimes. So please use this to discuss this incident and use it to drive home a point about doing the right thing.

[rug]

66. To answer my own question, I wouldn't.

Downthread somebody had a good suggestion: Get a lawyer.

[snagglepuss]

70. That is morally despicable. A mindset I expect from rethugs who only care for their own.

This mindset is the reason the US doesn't have universal health care.

[rug]

72. Gee I never been called morally despicable by snagglepuss before.

What is morally despicable is rapidly aligning withe the police before the facts are known.

What is morally despicapble - and stupid - is automatically assuming the FBI and its dozen related agencies are proceeding with an accurate and fair investigation.

What is morally despicable is immediately turning in your child to the police before assuring his civil and constitutional rights are protected.

I would say your choice is morally despicable but herd behavior is biological and absent of any morality.

[seabeyond]

67. all my kids life they have reaped rewards for good choices and had to accept the repercussion

for poor choices.

maybe that is one of the reasons i KNOW my kids would not make these choices in the first place.

maybe IF kids have cleared defined lines of acceptable, and not, there would not be this issue.

[bluestate10]

3. I am sure the people saying kids will be kids when kids cover for hardened killers,

are likely the same ones that bash President Obama for every controversy they dream up.

[kiva]

57. Yes, because there's such a connection between those topics.

Honestly, not everything that is posted here is about the president or about you.

[trumad]

4. yes....

Sorry...I would.

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. Ted Kazinski's brother turned him in....

[vinny9698]

63. After he got the death penalty off the table.

He negotiated to take the death penalty off, but the FBI, wanted to rescind, but the brother said he would go to the media and tell them not to trust the FBI. The death penalty was taken off.

[VanillaRhapsody]

84. and what does that have to do with it? The point was that a close family member

turned him in...

These boys chose to do the opposite and in fact tried to cover for someone who maimed and killed others...

[MADem]

6. I am a bit appalled at the "bros before innocent civilians, including children" attitude

of this crew--it's very troubling to me.

No moral center.

[noamnety]

10. It's the Steubenville culture on a grand scale.

Covering up for rapists, murderers, it's surprising how many view that as an acceptable norm so long as the rapists and murderers are your buddies.

[DevonRex]

16. Exactly. Those boys were rapists and their friends covered for them.

These guys are terrorists who murdered people and blew peoples' legs off. There are 2 brothers and each had their right legs blown off. They were roofers. Now what do they do? Early 30s. Their mom is devastated, trying to hold it together, going back and forth from one hospital to the other. She's glad they're still here.

But sometimes, when I see people talk about how cruel the size of his cell will be in Supermax in Colorado, knowing at least he still has 2 legs to pace it with... I just want to shake my head.

[Yo_Mama]

48. NO KIDDING

This is quite a serious crime.

[snagglepuss]

74. Exactly. I have to wonder how much this attitude is itself responsible for people

committing outrageous crimes as the perps know that their "tribe" will always have their backs.

[Dorian Gray]

35. Seriously

it's really appalling.

[snagglepuss]

71. It's reprehensible. It is a tribal attitude and this attitude is the reason the US

doesn't have universal health care.

[Gravitycollapse]

7. People make mistakes. Especially when they're 19.

You should be more worried about ruining the poor bastards life before it even begins.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. They saw their pal on TV and rushed to his dorm to cover his crime. 15 amputations, 3 dead

they said 'let's make sure our pal does not get caught'. These calloused fucks seem to have ruined their own lives for some reason, not at all sure it was about the friendship, that is not yet established.

[DevonRex]

11. Dzhokhar is 19. He murdered 3 people including the CHILD he put his bomb

next to. Then he walked off on 2 good legs right before it exploded. That bomb ripped a leg off the sister of the child he murdered. She's standing right next to the little boy at the guard rail. Their mom? Right there, too. Serious head injury.

[Hekate]

21. Gods, what a photo

Chilling as all hell.

[DevonRex]

78. That is what a normal reaction is. Not, "Hide the backpack!" nt

[Dorian Gray]

36. Thank you

for putting this in perspective. It's important that people realize the callousness of what he did. That anyone would cover for him because they were "Friends" is so insane. If I knew any of my friends did that, I'd be upset. I'd probably be afraid for them. But I would never, in a million years, cover up their crime.

[DevonRex]

79. Yes. And maybe think his older brother

was the one at fault. But you'd think he could explain it somehow. That he was forced. And that once he talked to the authorities they'd know he wasn't so evil. Because you wouldn't be friends with an evil person.

A million things would run through your mind. None of them would be to help him get away. Hell, you'd probably call the FBI yourself and say exactly that. You know who the picture is but he had to have been forced.

[lunatica]

56. That photo suddenly made me very sad

I can feel the weight of it pushing down on me.

[DevonRex]

80. Completely different but somehow the same.

I feel dread weighing me down when I look at this one, too. I wonder if the sweet baby Tamerlan was born without a conscience or if I could have just grabbed him and run away with him things would have been different. Then I look again at that morbidly unhappy-looking family and remember they have yet to produce Dzhokhar at the time of that photograph.

[marions ghost]

81. Thanks for the picture

for keeping perspective.

[Pelican]

19. You still have to pay for them...

No free rides, especially for something like this.

[woodsprite]

31. No! He should have been worried about that. n/t

[alphafemale]

32. "We"-society, will not ruin the poor bastards life.

He did that all on his own.

[HappyMe]

37. That bastard ruined his life himself.

This isn't a "mistake". An 8 year old kid lost his life, and several people lost limbs. I can't find any sympathy in my heart for these asshats.

If this were my kid, I would turn that bastard in.

[bike man]

38. Wearing mismatched cufflinks is a mistake. Getting sneeze spray on your steering wheel

is a mistake. Picking up the wrong fork to eat your salad is a mistake. Covering up for murderers is a conscious decision, and is NOT a mistake. Even by 19 year olds.

[WinkyDink]

40. STOP THE INSANITY!

[maddezmom]

47. He ruined his own life

[Yo_Mama]

49. Are you nuts?

Don't you realize that when they saw the photos, went to his dorm, and disposed of evidence that they were attempting to cover for two murderers? And that by doing so, they became complicit in FUTURE crimes their "buddy" might commit?

This is an appalling lack of moral objectivity that you are demonstrating.

They did not make a "mistake". They aided and abetted after the fact. By doing so, they demonstrated that they believed that the freedom of their friend was worth more than the lives of innocents, and perhaps that they approved of his act and wished to further future such activities.

I am utterly appalled at what you have posted.

[formernaderite]

75. thank you

kudos

[Yo_Mama]

64. I think you should see the charging affidavit

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/diaskadyrbayev.pdf

Now mind you, all of this will be debated in court, but according to the affidavit, after an exchange of texts with Tsarnaev, his friends went to his dorm room. The third guy was texted by one of his friends and told to come on. He may not have known then. At the time they went to the dorm room they knew Tsarnaev was leaving. He texted one of them and told him that he was leaving and to take anything they wanted from his dorm room.

They went to the dorm room. They looked through his things. They took his laptop, a backpack containing the empty fireworks containers, and vaseline, which they assumed he had to make a bomb. According to the affidavit, one told another that vaseline could be used to make bombs. So they took the vaseline as well, put it in the backpack, and left with that and the laptop.

This is not a mistake and not an impulsive act. The final disposal of the backpack with the fireworks containers and the vaseline was done hours later, at a minimum, after they heard on the news that the older brother was dead.

According to the affidavit, they admitted to knowing that their friend was involved in the Marathon bombing. They knew he was in flight. Not calling the authorities would have been a mistake, which indeed they committed. Making themselves active parties to the crime by removing the evidence was behavior of an entirely different dimension.

Also, would you have ever believed that vaseline can be used to make bombs?

[DevonRex]

83. The Vaseline part takes it to a new level.

It's obviously not the first use you think of in a student's room. Unless you've done some thinking about bomb-making materials ahead of time.

[truebrit71]

68. Right up to the point that you see empty fireworks with the gunpowder removed...

...and your buddy is wanted in connection with a bomb...at that point a warning should go off in your head that you call the cops and say..."Guess what I found?" and NOT, let's throw this shit in a dumpster and lie to the authorities if they ask us about it...

[snagglepuss]

73. There are mistakes and there mistakes. This in no mistake. This is

callous indifference. The two Kazaks should be jailed then deported, the American should be imprisoned for the maximum.

[arely staircase]

8. if i found evidence my son did such a thing i would immediately hire a lawyer and follow her advice

and she would then contact the authorities. if it were a friend they could kiss the friendship goodbye and I would contact the authorities personally.

[MADem]

12. I have to wonder if this is why Katerina Tsarnaeva --who has decided "Katie Russell" now sounds

a bit more friendly--has ditched her husband's body, and her parents have hired her not one, but TWO lawyers, and have put their house on the market (it's worth almost half a million).

I think she knows more than she's saying.

I wonder how long before she dumps the hijab...probably after the heat is off her.

[arely staircase]

14. i noticed the "katie" bit too

and yeah, she should be lawyered up. whether she had a part or not. she'll dump the hajib soon and go on a boston PR pub crawl. well maybe not the last part.

[MADem]

15. She apparently has a few issues herself.

She was bagged for shoplifting BEFORE she married Prince Charming, and she told the cop she was married.

Apparently doesn't have any trouble lying to the police...

Who knows if there's more "there" there...

[DallasNE]

17. The Killers Mom Has A Warrant Out For Shoplifting

And that was a major part of why they fled back to Russia. Did the wife also have a shoplifting charge? I had not heard that.

[MADem]

23. Yes--she was arrested for shoplifting before she married. She lied to the cop and said she

was married.

I found that rather unusual. What are the odds that both mother and daughter in law are Light Fingered Louisas?

It's the Mail, they can sometimes mess up a detail or two, but they do well aggregating the pictures:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2317936/Katherine-Russell-Boston-Bomber-widows-fresh-faced-mugshot-following-2007-arrest-shoplifting-clothes-store.html

Last week the MailOnline revealed that 25-year-old Islamic convert Russell has a criminal record and is a confessed shoplifter.
And in an intriguing twist, Russell, who was 18 at the time, told officers she was married though she was living at her parent’s North Kingstown home and did not meet Tsranaev until some two years later.
The startling revelation raised fresh questions over the past and character of the 'all-American girl' 'brainwashed' according to some, by her fanatic husband.
Katherine was arrested along with an unnamed female minor on 26 June 2007. The police report described her as unemployed and married.

It wasn't Lord and Taylor, though--it was Old Navy! And she didn't get the haul that mother-in-law was going for; her take was only sixty seven bucks worth of junk. She did community service and paid a fine.

[Turborama]

29. Where do you get "Katerina" from? I've only ever seen her called Katherine

Last edited Thu May 2, 2013, 02:08 PM - Edit history (1)

And Katie is a very common abreviation of Katherine, might well be what everyone knows her as?

Minor details really, in the great scheme of things. But still...

(Typo fix)

[MADem]

69. Because that is what she started calling herself--Katerina Tsarnaeva, the full Russian version of

name, with the "A" on the end and everything.

[MichiganVote]

13. Right there with you on this

[Gormy Cuss]

20. Nineteen year olds may still be stupid teens

but they are also responsible adults who must face the consequences of that stupidity. Some people are more mature than others at that age but from a legal perspective they're all the same.

[irisblue]

51. ^^^this^^^

some things will follow you forever.

[Hekate]

22. If they turn out to be innocent of the bombing part, their behavior smacks of panic

Absolute mindless panic.

And yes, I would be deeply ashamed too. You don't go covering up that kind of shit.

[BlueCheese]

24. As always, there's a Seinfeld about this.

"What kind of person are you going around killing people?"

[peace13]

61. Thanks for the laugh!

Feels good!

[KharmaTrain]

25. Alienation Attracts...

One thread I see with all of these characters is they're "alien"...attempting to adjust to life in a different country and culture. They grew up in a world far different than the one they saw around them in Cambridge and it wasn't one they were either welcome or felt comfortable in. Their Russian language was their bond...and a special, strong one.

I doubt there's any parent who wouldn't feel full of guilt and shame if their kids were remotely involved with something as heinous as the bombing but from what I can see here, the Tsarnaevs were on their own; thousands of miles away from their parents and relying upon themselves and a small group of friends...alienated from the world around them and thus one they didn't feel any responsibility to.

[cali]

27. But why were they alienated? they lived in a very diverse and accepting

city. They went to what may be the most diverse (and one of the best) high schools in the country. It's not like they were in Kansas. And they weren't 10 and 12. they were 18 and 25 (or thereabouts) when their mother left. One off to college, the other a grown, married man with his own family.

Dzhokhar had been here since he was in grade school. Why were they so alienated?

[KharmaTrain]

28. Strangers In Strange Lands...

Most of us have never experienced culture shock...having to live in a country where people not only speak a different language but look at you funny because of your accent or who not only have no knowledge or appreciation of your culture but lump you in with others. I think of Moscow on the Hudson...how America is billed as the "land of opportunity" for many and when they get here it's a totally different experience.

The more I read about the Tsarnaevs, the more I see this attack having more in common with Columbine than Al Queda. That was another form of alienation than manifested in violently lashing out with total disregard to who was the victim. We're sure to get a better picture at the upcoming trial.

[cali]

39. Well, again, at Rindge Latin they numerous kids speak a different language as

their primary language. Lots of "strangers in a strange land". No one would have looked twice at someone who wasn't a native English speaker, and the same, as a whole, goes for the larger community. Furthermore, Dzhokhar was a little kid when he arrived in Cambridge.

As for Columbine, I agree that this crime has elements in common with that one, but it was influenced to some degree by religion.

In any case, I don't buy the "stranger in a strange land" thing, because where they landed wasn't remotely like that. I tend to think that the older guy felt resentful, disappointed in his failure to become a big shot boxer and turned to religion after that. I think he influenced his brother and it became a sort of closed loop where they fed off one another.

[malaise]

26. +1.000 n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. I once knew an otherwise very law abiding women who sheltered and treated a younger brother who was

shot while committing an armed robbery. I am not suggesting that anyone should do such a thing or that doing such a thing is acceptable. But it does fit into the category of crimes that I can understand how an otherwise decent and law abiding person might under very exceptional circumstances commit. What these young folks did was not a justifiable crime - but recognizing how bonding works - it is a crime that I believe an otherwise decent person could commit.

[WinkyDink]

41. Yeah, right. Looks like you didn't know that woman's character as well as you thought.

[Douglas Carpenter]

44. no, she was not a perfect person, in fact far from it. She made a very human mistake

If someone who one feels a great deal of affection for is on the lam - I certainly can understand why someone feels greatly conflicted.

[RedstDem]

53. part of being human

Who wouldn't help their own bother?

[Whiskeytide]

60. Its one thing to feel greatly conflicted...

...but quite another to destroy evidence and help someone cover up a heinous crime. I suppose I see what you're saying, but they still have face the consequences of their actions - if they did it. A civilized society cannot let this go unpunished.

[octothorpe]

77. Your friend's situation is different though..

I can understand helping out a family member (to an extent) who was involved in a robbery. I think it would be difficult and I would encourage my brother to turn himself in, but I find that to be a reasonable human reaction. It would be different if he killed someone in the process. Also, an armed robbery is bad, but I don't think it's even close to being as horrible as setting a bomb off in a crowd of innocents.

[Tien1985]

34. I'm disgusted

That we treat 19 yr olds like they are children. A mistake at 19 is having a one night stand without using protection, and even that can have life long consequences.
Trying to hide someone who set off a bomb in a crowd is not a mistake, it's a crime and anyone over 18 should definitely be held responsible for such.

[Nye Bevan]

42. Look, whether it's an underage keg party, or helping a murdering Jihadist escape justice,

boys will be boys.

[dembotoz]

45. i would stick by my kid pretty much no matter what and get him the best lawyer i could

he is my kid no matter what

there is too much blood in the water
and I would be damned if I let my child fall even more victim to it

[seabeyond]

46. I agree Trumad, I do not buy the " just teens" either.

And having two teens right now, I buy it even less.

[revolution breeze]

50. Much smaller scale

My 20 year daughter drives a 1972 AMC Gremlin. Several months ago, a home invasion took place (revenge over a stupid argument at the race track) and the neighbor reported seeing a Gremlin parked down the street. I called her and informed her of this, she said her ex-boyfriend had borrowed her car and it was at his house. I told her it was her decision, but that unique car was going to get spotted quickly in our small town. She called the police and turned him in, they recovered the property, he is doing his time and no one was hurt. Nineteen is old enough to know right from wrong.

[LWolf]

52. My sons wouldn't.

They are in their 30s now. I'm trying to remember them at 19, which was their most rebellious teen-aged stage. They did stupid stuff.

I still can't see it. They would not cover up for anyone planning to hurt people. At the height of their teen-age selves, they never approved of hurting people. The younger boy DID believe in aggressive self-defense against bullies, it's true, but that's not the same.

[Walk away]

54. If I had a son in that situation I would get him the best lawyer...

his future inheritance could buy. We would both explain he would have to turn himself in.

[peace13]

58. 19 is pretty old to be learning this lesson.

When my son was in the sixth grade they had the DARE program to teach them about the ills and evil of drugs. He's a smart young person and has always had what he needed. The DARE program peeked his interest about drugs and the dealings of the law. At twelve he told me that if he decided to do drugs he could and there was nothing I could do about it. My response was ..go ahead and do drugs and see how fast I call the Sheriff! He couldn't believe the words from my mouth. I told him that yes, he was free to make his choices but he needed to be aware that his choices had consequences, consequences for him and for me. It wasn't a threat, it was a calm discussion about his rights and my obligations.

Too wild that a year later the DARE officer was arrested for...wait for it...drugs. You have to wonder what they were learning in class.

Long story short, there are so many teaching opportunities along the way. As parents we have to take advantage of them before the window closes!

I don't know what to say about the backpack and the young adults in this article. I fear that this will not work out well for them. It will be a life lesson for sure. I can only hope that it does not send them down the wrong road.

[pipi_k]

59. I don't know if

this is an either/or issue.

As in, they're just kids vs they are criminals.


OK, they're 19. Kids that age and younger are generally extremely stupid.

But that doesn't mean they should get a pass for acting stupidly and irresponsibly.

I would also be ashamed and very distressed, and I would urge my kid to turn himself in.

This is why I oppose letting anyone younger than 21 have adult privileges like being able to drink legally, or have a drivers license. Because enough kids are stupid at that age to ruin it for those who aren't.

Anyway, that's not the issue. Those kids were criminally stupid and should face the consequences and hopefully learn from whatever happens to them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. It's called science

Some 19 year olds are not like others...why we like them as soldiers.

Yes, a moral compass sgould be there, but the assestment of risk is not.

Not justifying it, just happen to get it...it's pesky science.

Oh and sons take longer than daughters...by the by

[Jennicut]

76. We excuse a lot of things teens do. And at 19 you are an adult.

It used to disgust me the stuff that some kids I went to high school got away with because I was a quiet, well behaved teen. Not that I thought they all had to go to juvie but I grew up in a wealthy town and their rich parents never punished them and pulled strings for them. At 19, you really are old enough to know better. Don't throw away your own future for a "buddy" you probably won't even speak to 10 years after college.

[haele]

82. And yet - friends will do this sort of thing in the state of denial.

"He's a great guy, he's our friend, he'd never do something like that..."

These were his friends and roommates. From their statements, and the statements of others, it wasn't obvious that Dzokhar would feel that deeply to do something like that. So it was a shock that they saw he was involved.
I can understand why they would try to hide evidence - it's a lizard brain reaction to make it all go away so they could all be friends. So they wouldn't feel affected by a crime done by one of their group, that they wouldn't have "responsibility" for something he did that they didn't suspect he could do.

They did it because they felt a strong compulsion from their relationship to him, and they didn't want it to be that way. The compulsion was probably exacerbated by the fact all of them - the group - made the discovery at the same time, instead of one alone.

I've often seen this sort of reaction with young men that age in the military.

It was wrong, it is a crime to try to hide the evidence after the fact, and they should take responsibility for what they did, but I wouldn't be an ashamed parent, knowing how especially hard it is for a young man to divorce himself from being a "team member" and sticking up for his buddy right or wrong.
I would be sad, and angry for him doing something so stupid as to not recognize that "friend" had abandoned them and their relationship as soon as he had agreed to follow the actions of a psycho brother. I would make sure the cops knew what had happened, if I had to march my kid down to the station myself.
But -
I would only be ashamed if a child of mine had aided and abetted him before or during the crime.

Haele

[Generic Other]

85. A song for this thread from Bruce Springsteen

For all our Hobson's choices. A very raw nerve you struck here Trumad.