***WARNING GRAPHIC*** Police Ofiicers caught off guard by heavily armed offender.

[JH19059]

There are two things I hate most as a cop...Domestic disturbances and traffic stops. Either one can turn ugly in a second! And this video shows just that...action happens at about the 1:45 mark. Viewer discretion is advised. Officers survived but were wounded.

[link:

&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Ffeature%3Dplayer_embedded%26v%3DCspl2ArCUqU&has_verified=1|

[Cooley Hurd]

1. Not sure why they went after the guy to begin with?

On edit - from the link the op gave to another poster:

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/oh_geauga/prosecutor-middlefield-police-officers-acted-in-self-defense-in-fatal-shooting-of-james-gilkerson

On March 10, dash cam video showed Gilkerson being pulled over by Middlefield police officers Savage and Thomas for failing to stop at the intersection of East High Street and North State Avenue.

[JH19059]

6. He ran a red ligth at an intersection. NT

[treestar]

16. To me it looks like he turns right at a yield lane

I don't see what he did wrong traffic-wise. The cop car turned around to stop him, though.

[JH19059]

19. If u notice there's a turning van that slows down to let him turn...He turned against the red light.

[treestar]

20. Is he the one that turned right?

And can't you turn right on red in Ohio? Plus the curved lane - the red light would not apply. The cops seem to have the red light before they turn, so I was looking for someone oncoming - from the van's right.

[treestar]

53. Now I get it

It is not for running a red light, but for failing to stop - there is a stop sign in the curved turning lane.

On March 10, dash cam video showed Gilkerson being pulled over by Middlefield police officers Savage and Thomas for failing to stop at the intersection of East High Street and North State Avenue.

Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/oh_geauga/prosecutor-middlefield-police-officers-acted-in-self-defense-in-fatal-shooting-of-james-gilkerson#ixzz2SSO073E4

[Bay Boy]

2. Wow!

Like you said, that turned ugly in a hurry. Is there any news link to go with it that you can post?

[JH19059]

5. Yep sure in the hell did!! Here's a news link.....

Here's a link not sure if it's showing up coreectly.


[link:http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/oh_geauga/prosecutor-middlefield-police-officers-acted-in-self-defense-in-fatal-shooting-of-james-gilkerson|

[JH19059]

10. Good find ! I found it but could'nt get it to link up correctly..NT

[uppityperson]

28. Whoah, that is quite something, thanks for that link.

[John1956PA]

8. March 10, 2013, Middlefield Ohio, by police car dashcam.

One officer sustained a gunshot wound to his hand.

[NutmegYankee]

18. her hand.

And she lost her index finger.

[justanidea]

4. Looks like suicide by cop to me.

Why else would the guy keep shouting "Kill me".

Selfish prick. Too much of a coward to take his own life so he forces someone else to do it for him.

[galileoreloaded]

30. yup

[sakabatou]

48. My thought as well

[Warpy]

57. Agreed, he made no attempt to shield himself

and refused to drop his gun even when he'd been wounded and was too busy crying to take any more pot shots.

It would have been a lot less painful to have eaten one of his own guns and saved a cop losing her index finger.

[arely staircase]

69. yeah except

I always associate that with someone just waving a gun, not opening up on the cops like that.

[Beacool]

81. I agree.

But the guy was a danger to others. They found an arsenal in a bag in the car. Who knows what he had been planning?

[MrScorpio]

83. Bingo nt

[DrDan]

9. 40 round magazine - and used 33

explain again why a limit here is not a good idea

[JH19059]

11. I've been askig myself the same question...NT

[davepc]

29. I'm sure the guy trying to murder cops at a traffic stop

Would be sure to follow any and all magazine limit laws.

[DrDan]

36. so no reason to control/ban them? that what you are saying?

should we do away with stop signs? and laws surrounding income tax?

How about drunk driving? Eliminate those laws?

[Evergreen Emerald]

52. Exactly!

We should not pass a law because criminals won't follow it? I Never understood that argument.

[dementianurse]

60. Depends on the law

If it's a law that places the law-abiding citizen at a disadvantage compared to those who would break the same law to harm them, whether or not it would be effective in stopping criminals might be something worth considering before passing it.

Driving drunk doesn't protect or give one an advantage over other drunk drivers. Tax evasion doesn't work as a defense against the deleterious effects of other tax evader.

[busterbrown]

77. You’re kidding right..?

Last edited Sun May 5, 2013, 10:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Drunk Driving laws are harsh and super expensive and absolutely are a deterrent....
How many lives are saved because a person who plans to party on a particular night calls a friend
or cab rather than drive...

[busterbrown]

84. I think all laws have the capability of hurting someone unintentionally.

Someone who intended to drive drunk home from a party and instead walked because his fear of a D.U.I.......was so drunk that he walked into the street, a car swerved to avoid hitting him and inadvertently hit another pedestrian. The strict laws lead to the injury of a person who they were
intended to protect....But overall they overwhelmingly help those who they were intended to help,
innocent people who are driving around with their families or people who are just going for a walk..
I feel all laws which regulate firearms are more important to the safety of the overall community
than the consequences of occasionally being a disadvantage to the law abiding citizen .
I think its a number thing..

Sorry for the misunderstanding of your first post..

[Cali_Democrat]

58. Lets legalize murder

Because killers don't follow the law anyways.

Right?

[dementianurse]

62. But we don't outlaw killing altogether

We outlaw the purpose for which it is used.

As a law abiding citizen I am perfectly within my rights to kill if someone else is trying to take my life. A blanket law that made all killing illegal would place the innocent person at a distinct disadvantage against those killers who would disregard it. That's why we have to carefully weigh rights against restrictions to ensure they don't unduly place a burden on the law abider compared to those who would likely ignore the law.

[Major Nikon]

61. By that logic we should make grenades and RPGs legal

Just sayin'

[dementianurse]

63. Not really

If grenades and RPGs were in common use against innocent citizens, then that might be true. In fact, I'd say it's definitely true that if criminals were shooting RPGs at me, I'd want something equal or better than to defend myself with.

Of course in that case we'd probably be in a state of war so all bets would be off anyway.

As it stands now, grenades and RPGs are almost impossible for the common criminal to get and are not particularly useful to them in any event, so laws are easier to enforce and have little negative impact on the average citizen.

[Major Nikon]

68. So the "good" gun nuts should be armed the same as the "bad" gun nuts

A half-fast gun proliferates' argument if I've ever heard one.

Just sayin'

[dementianurse]

70. "Nuts", whatever that means in your vocabulary, probably shouldn't be armed at all

And my argument is not nearly as half-fast as proclaiming that since we allow people to defend themselves with guns under the assumption that crooks will get them regardless, we might as well legalize grenades and RPGs too.

[Major Nikon]

74. I assumed no such thing

That assumption and the arm race brilliance was yours.

Just sayin'

[dementianurse]

75. Sure pal

Whatever blows yer skirt up.

[Major Nikon]

89. Welcome to DU

Enjoy your stay.

[morningfog]

80. We should let criminals write all our laws!

[Major Nikon]

59. This is the kind of repeatability that the gun proliferates think is a great idea

[FirstLight]

12. yikes

There was a lot of time between the pull over and him getting out of the car, aren't cops usually at the window by then? It's a good thing, cuz one of them would be dead if that were the case.

what scares me is the civilians all around too...lucky nobody got hit by any stray bullets. I saw one car actually hitting reverse and getting the fuck outta there as it was happening.

terrifying that this kind of armed nutcase is NOT a fluke, there's more of them out there than we know...

[Jenoch]

22. They were probably

running his plates looking for wants and warrants.

[Schema Thing]

13. good cover fire

[JH19059]

35. Yes it was. From a tectical standpoint they did all they could and they did a DAMN GOOD JOB!! NT

[ok_cpu]

56. The female officer's reaction time is amazing

I know nothing about law enforcement but cannot believe how quickly they reacted. She yelled the split-second his gun could be seen.

Would they have viewed him taking his foot off the brake as a sign of trouble?

[JH19059]

65. She did an Amazing job..She can ride with me any day! Now

If u listen very closely to the video you will hear her state that she believes he's trying to hide something and that something doesn't feel right. She knew already. Now for me him taking foot of the break would have made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Why? Normally on "routine traffic stops" ( no such thing as a routine traffic stop) the driver normally brings the car to a complete stop and place the vehicle in park. He held the brake down until she exited the vehicle.

[treestar]

86. That amazed me too

She reacted before I could see the gun.

[treestar]

14. Wonder what this guy was planning

Be your own undertaker? That's the name of one of the books he had.

ETA: I googled it (hope no one searches my searches!) and it is about disposing of a dead body. But supposedly is tongue in cheek and present information rather than really supposed to be showing how to do it.

[bemildred]

15. An excellent example of how guns keep you safe.

[Jenoch]

23. The guns the cops had saved their lives.

[bemildred]

38. The fact that the perp was a dufus saved their lives.

Although I am sure their guns were helpful to them in putting him down, and if there ever was a good shoot, that one was. That dash cam is going to save everybody a lot of trouble this time. No awkward questions.

But in any case, I was pointing put that his weapons don't seem to have done much for him but get him killed, not that the cops should not be armed.

[Jenoch]

43. You should be clear about the intent of

your posts. Of course this guy was a doofus. I don't know if he owned the gun legally or not. The photo seemed to be a booking photo.

[bemildred]

45. Sorry if I stepped on your toes there.

I'm not getting into any gun debates, I just wanted to point out that simply having a gun around doens't make you safer, it's not magic, it's made to kill, and you better know what you are doing or leave it be. People in movies wave them around like magic wands and naive viewers think its real.

[Jenoch]

49. I was trying to point out that

simply having a gun DID make those cops safer. What a person DOES with a gun is what makes it safe or unsafe. This guy was intent on having the cops kill him. It also appears he may have wished to take one or both of them with him. This kind of 'suicide-by-cop' is much worse than aomebody who wishes to die points an unloaded gun at a cop.

My toes are fine. It never occurred to me that you were stepping on them.

[bemildred]

91. Well good, I'm glad I didn't step on your toes.

Actually, I think he planned to shoot his way out, like in the movies, and it just turned out to be harder to hit something than he expected in the circumstances, and then, at the end, realizing he had beshit himself in public, not like in the movies at all, he had them kill him.

A gun only makes you safer if you know what you are doing with it, if you don't act like a dumb ass with it. How is that different from what I said?

[Jenoch]

92. Your first post

to which I replied seemed like a flippant remark without much thought.

[CTyankee]

42. uh, there's a reason for that. also, they are qualified and authorized to carry guns...geez..

[Downwinder]

17. Not a pedestrian walking down the sidewalk.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. As a medc I hated DV calls....and kitchens.

I am sure you know why...bedrooms came next, master bedrooms.

This, it would be me coming a well after the shooting was over...

[JH19059]

25. I do understand all too welllol...

I've been jumped on by women for arresting their boyfriends for beating them!! I would normally start moving items out of the way (vases, bowls, knives, canes, tables, etc..) without the parties involved noticing what I was doing. Hell I had a elderly gentlemen once reach behind a couch, grab a baseball bat, and almost proceed to knock out his drug dealing grandson until i I was able to snatch it from him. Sat the grandfather down talked to him and helped him throw out his son. But it could've been ugly lol....

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. You stay safe

[11 Bravo]

24. Suicide by cop.

You stay safe, not every one around here hates LEOs.

[JH19059]

27. Thanks and I will

I've been coming around here since 08 but I don't post much. For the most part many here are very accepting of LEO. I've gotten much love from the members! And contrary to popular belief there are many cops that are Democrats. Hell my whole unit is made up of mostly Democrats with a few sorry ass Fox viewers strewn in. We've trained them well in keeping their mouths shut lol.

[VOX]

47. Thanks so much for your LEO service...

It's much appreciated. While the rest of us simply lead our lives, you're the ones who are called upon to deal with those in society who've lost the capacity to govern their own behavior, and tragically, that can be deadly at times.

Based upon what's known about the suspect in this video, it's pretty clear that a much larger tragedy was averted by these officers, who sacrificed their own safety for that of the community.

Go safely --

[LiberalLoner]

76. +1 me too

[riqster]

78. From the software design perspective, cops are great partners

After several years of working with them (out of a 4 decade-+ career), LEOs are some of the sharpest, most focused, and most realistic user groups I have ever encountered.

Bless you and the other professionals you work with. Having gotten a tiny bit of insight into your world, I am amazed at the community of people that inhabit it.

[Locut0s]

51. Murder suicide. Though i guess that's semantics. Suicide by cop doesn't...

doesn't require that kind of fire power. A low calibre gun shot even close to but not directly at the cops would be enough for suicide by cop.

[Marrah_G]

31. Suicide by cop

Glad the officers survived.

[sammytko]

32. Did he yell "Kill Me" at the 2:20 mark? n/t

[JH19059]

34. Yep that's what he yells...

[99Forever]

33. Anoither law-abiding gun owner showing...

.. why there is no need for limitations of any kind on their gawd-granted and sacred 2nd A "right."

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee haw!

[Initech]

37. OMG! I saw that on the news! Scary.

[MannyGoldstein]

39. What kind of sickness do we have in our country?

That people do things like this?

I don't think these things happen inn say, Western Europe.

[Downwinder]

40. If traffic stops and domestic violence are the most

dangerous why are all the bullet proof vehicles at the peaceful demonstrations?

[Taverner]

41. Wow! Were you one of the cops?

No wonder every cop these days, from Mayberry to Montreal wears body armor

[JH19059]

46. No I wasn't and I"m happy I'm not. But I have been in a shooting situation almost like it..NT

[LAGC]

66. Body armor doesn't stop rifle bullets.

Those cops are lucky to be alive.

[Taverner]

67. No - it doesn't

But I noticed the other day that every cop I see, whether it's a small town, a big city or rural nowhere - they all wear body armor.

That can't be comfortable - and last I heard it was optional for most departments

So...that kinda scares me in a way...big way, actually...

[Skeeter Barnes]

44. Have they said how many hits it took to bring him down?

Looks like he kept firing after getting wounded.

[JH19059]

50. A guestamate..I would have to say around maybe 20-25 rounds.

Last edited Mon May 6, 2013, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Should've clarified.. I guess the fired around 20-25 rounds now how many actually hit him the number I'm hearing is 9 as stated below by a fellow member.

[Skeeter Barnes]

55. Seems like it could take more than just a few rounds to stop an attacker.

Like maybe 6-10 rounds isn't necessarily enough when facing a determined/suicidal attacker.

[dems_rightnow]

54. I think 9

I believe I had previously seen a story that indicated Gilkerson had been hit 9 times.

[napkinz]

64. we are one SICK society

And the NRA holds a gun-love fest

[CaliforniaPeggy]

71. What does LEO stand for? I haven't heard this one before...

My son-in-law is a cop. A detective.

He told me he's had whole shifts when his gun was out all the time.

Stay safe!



K&R

[Skeeter Barnes]

72. Law Enforcement Officer

[CaliforniaPeggy]

73. D'oh! Thank you...

[Historic NY]

79. They were very lucky, the offenders weapon...

was going like butter through the chevy police car........I wonder what ammo he had.

[Smarmie Doofus]

85. Is that a passerby at the very end? " I have a pistol."

Seems everybody's packin' in Middlefield.

Was there any sort of motive established? What , if anything, was the shooter up to?

[treestar]

87. Since he had weapons on the passenger side of the car

Maybe he was on his way to murder someone. He realized the cops would notice the weapons and so perhaps thought he may as well take his stand here.

[madokie]

88. Man o man

this took me back 43 plus years to when I was in 'nam.
No police officer should have to face this kind of fire power, none of them ever.