Bombing of Damascus

[lovuian]

Last edited Tue May 7, 2013, 12:08 PM - Edit history (2)

RT has managed to speak to local journalist Abdallah Mawazini, for a report on the latest developments.


“When the explosion happened in Damascus, all the houses were shaken. There was dust everywhere. Right now we’re receiving more information about the attack, which targeted the Jamraya military research center," he told RT. "Everyone woke up, most of the people ran downstairs – to make sure they are safe. Now we are getting more information. The sound of the explosion was heard everywhere in Damascus. People are scared.”

http://rt.com/news/damascus-syria-explosions-sunday-831/




it reminded me of the Iraq bombing of the Ammunitions dump in Baghdad

[lovuian]

5. we used depleted uranium in Iraq

there was no objection to that as being preposterous

[Spitfire of ATJ]

7. Exactly. It's a big blast but no flash. As far as DU that's a penetration round.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

2. Second blast...

[lovuian]

3. here is the Ammunitions Dump bombing in Baghdad 6 years ago

it looks very similiar

[longship]

4. RT is not a source I would rely on.

Their broadcasts always have the sleaziest of INet bloggers spinning some pretty ridiculous yarns. It's at best speculative news, and at worst conspiracy central.

I used to watch RT regularly -- it's broadcasted on a local PBS channel as part of MHz Worldview feed. But I got sick and tired of the craziness.

RT is hardly a good source.

[lovuian]

6. are you saying the footage of the bombing is not accurate

I agree RT is a biased source

but you think the film footage of the bombing is fake

[longship]

12. Who said it was fake?

I just said RT was not a reliable source.

Also, speculating about depleted uranium is outright rubbish. Depleted uranium is used for penetrating armored vehicles because uranium has high density and packs a wallop for small shells. AFAIK, it would be impractical for bombs for the same reason it's useful for smaller artillery: its high density. You don't need depleted uranium in a bomb when you can have enough explosives to do the job without uranium. A shaped charge has many times the penetrating power and a dropped munition doesn't have the kinetic energy of a fired artillery shell where the shell's density can provide advantage.

It's physics 101.

[lovuian]

14. I just asked the question we used Depleted Uranium on bombs in Iraq

NYT have issued their statement
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/world/middleeast/israel-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

they are saying possible missiles from Iran's nuclear program were in the warehouse

the question will be answered in time
geiger counters will go over the site and we will get the answer in time
Is it Iranian?

[longship]

15. DU is an alpha emitter, which has low penetration.

So its radiation is difficult to detect unless you're right on top of it. It doesn't even penetrate the skin, let alone be detectable from a distance.

Just saying.

I don't like this attack anymore than anybody, but at least people should get the science right.

Thanks for your response.

[lovuian]

16. I didn't like the title either

The widely-used Lockheed Martin GBU-28 5,000 lb. 'bunker-buster' bomb with a BLU-109 penetrator head carried only by the Air Force's F-15E's and B-2s, contains 1.5 metric tons of depleted uranium, compared to only five kilograms in the 120 mm shell. According to the GBU-28 Bunker Buster animation on USA Today the warhead is "classified".6 The 30 mm PGU-14 armor-piercing cannon shell contains 4,650 grains [0.66 pounds ] of extruded DU, alloyed with 0.75 weight percent titanium.7 The Olin Corporation is the sole maker in the U.S. of DU antitank rounds, and its foundation funds "research" which purports to show that DU has no harmful health effects.

An "improved" version of this bomb - the GBU-37B, made by Northrop Grumman - with a BLU-113 warhead also contains DU. Another bunker-penetrating munition dropped on caves and tunnels in Afghanistan is the AGM-130 - widely used in the Tora Bora campaign - which is a 2,900 pound, rocket-propelled bomb fired by helicopters and F-15E's up to 40 miles away from its target.8 Other earlier versions of bunker-penetrating bombs include the GBU-15, GBU-24, GBU-27 and GBU-31.

http://cursor.org/stories/uranium.htm

[longship]

17. Thank you for the info.

Can always depend on DUers to come through. There's always somebody more knowledgable on a subject. That's why these forums work.

[Half-Century Man]

19. I learned

Did not know this

[lovuian]

9. Syria Reports Israeli Bombing Sunday

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11914112/1/syria-reports-israeli-bombing-sunday.html?cm_ven=RSSFeed



DAMASCUS, Syria (TheStreet) -- Explosions reportedly rocked the outskirts of the Syrian capital early Sunday, and Syria's state news agency said they resulted from Israeli air attacks.

If Israel did indeed carry out an airstrike, it would be the second in three days and would mark a heightening of Middle Eastern tensions as Syria's civil war escalates.

Syria's Sana news agency reported that Israeli jets were targeting the Jamraya research center Sunday morning.
Did Israel bomb syria?

[Adsos Letter]

10. I wondered if it was a fuel/air bomb, but I'm certainly no expert in these things.

whatever it was, it was impressive.

[lovuian]

11. I'm wondering what Syria had in their warehouse that was bombed?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/world/middleeast/israel-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

BEIRUT, Lebanon — A series of powerful explosions rocked the outskirts of Damascus early Sunday morning, which Syrian state television said was the result of Israeli missile attacks on a Syrian military installation.

[lovuian]

13. Ny times report

Last edited Tue May 7, 2013, 01:11 PM - Edit history (1)

The missiles that were the target of the Israeli raid had been shipped from Iran and were being stored in a warehouse at Damascus International Airport when they were struck, according to an American official.

Iran has sought to use the threat of a Hezbollah missile attack against Israeli territory as a means of building up its ally and deterring Israel from conducting airstrikes on Iranian nuclear installations that Israeli and American officials believe are part of an Iranian nuclear weapons program.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/world/middleeast/israel-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

the story from the NYT is that in the warehouse missiles from Iran

[maddezmom]

24. I read the NYT article 2x and didn't see that...could you point it out for me?

[Half-Century Man]

18. You seem really dedicated to Israel using penetration bombs.

FYI: penetrator rounds are non explosive kinetic energy rounds. Tanks use them, and they are made for sniper rifles as well. Depleted uranium is used in the cores of some penetrator rounds to add bulk (weight) to the cartridge.
Deep impact gravity bombs have been made from hardened artillery barrels, but not depleted uranium.
Depleted uranium is a non-nuclear weapons ingredient. A nuclear weapon splits atoms to release the energy which holds elements together through a chain reaction. The A-bomb uses enriched uranium as fuel (the weakest of nuclear weapons). The H-bomb or hydrogen bomb uses plutonium as fuel and is exponentially stronger. A nuclear weapon has a blast (fireball) which can be MILES in diameter.

I am curious, why are so dedicated to Israel using something, anything which could be nuclear?

[lovuian]

20. I'm not dedicated

Last edited Tue May 7, 2013, 12:52 PM - Edit history (1)

I refer to the NYT article

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. Why post the dumb lying video that says it's nuclear? And it's a lie that Iran sent nuclear weapons

You chose the 'nuclear bomb' claim. Don't run away from it. You could have posted one of many videos that actually show larger explosions, but you chose the one that claims it was a nuclear bomb - which no-one believes, apart from the nutter who made that video.

You are wittering on about depleted uranium, but that is entirely irrelevant to either nuclear explosions (it's 'depleted' because they've extracted the isotope of uranium that can produce a fission explosion), and probably to this attack too - as you've been told, DU is not explosive - it's used simply for its mass to help penetration.

You are trying to spread extremely dangerous rumours. Luckily, no-one on DU believes you so far, but there may be someone gullible enough to do so. You are being very irresponsible. I suggest you delete the video in the OP, and stick to reality, not the imagination of an anonymous YouTuber.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume this was your ignorance, and not an intentional attempt to make Israel look bad by claiming they used a nuclear weapon. But, if you refuse to edit out the idiotic video in the OP, now that you've been told repeatedly that you're wrong, I think we'll have to assume you really are warmongering.

"As you can see I posted the NYT article which talks about Iran shipping Hezbollah a nuclear weapon "

No, that's a lie. The NYT article talks about "Iranian nuclear installations that Israeli and American officials believe are part of an Iranian nuclear weapons program. ["b]Nowhere does it claim that Iran shipped Hezbollah a nuclear weapon. That is such an irresponsible thing to write. It's flatly untrue. It's a lie. You need to remove that from your posts too.

[lovuian]

36. Latest news out

Israel used depleted uranium shells in Syria'


Israel used depleted uranium shells in the alleged strike in Syria on Sunday, a senior Syrian military source told Russia Today on Monday.

"When the explosion happened it felt like an earthquake, then a giant golden mushroom of fire appeared. This tells us that Israel used depleted uranium shells," the source said.

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Syria-Israel-used-depleted-uranium-shells-in-Syria-strike-312189

No comment from Israel

[mick063]

41. tritium is hydrogen with an added nuetron

H bombs use tritium. Of the use of PU I do not know but it is the use of tritium that defines them as hydrogen bomobs.

[Turborama]

21. You should add the RT link to the OP

People are starting to think the title of the video is the title of the article...

http://rt.com/news/damascus-syria-explosions-sunday-831/

[lovuian]

27. thank you for the advice I posted one that I hope does not have the bad title

though I can't read arabic or understand it

I placed the link at your advice

Sorry about the title ...I was not thinking

[azurnoir]

22. Link to Russia Today article which does not mention nukes or depleted uranium

http://rt.com/news/damascus-syria-explosions-sunday-831/


those claims are the creation of who ever posted the vid on youtube

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. You posted this here the moment it got hidden by a jury in V&M

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017117006

This is unnecessarily over-the-top sensationalistic bullshit, totally inappropriate to posted on DU, whose membership champions journalistic integrity.

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue May 7, 2013, 01:03 AM, and voted 5-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: Nuclear bomb??? Hide.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Inappropriate use of hyperbole. In addition, source is not cited, which is a ToS violation. Post should be hidden.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Uh, that's a pretty serious accusation.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: NUKES? I agree with alerter........over the top and sensationalistic.

Shame on you.

[lovuian]

26. I obtained a video with the bombing with a different title

It is interesting that Democratic underground jury voted to Hide it and you brought it up to everyones attention
the title was on the video and I just used the title on the video
as far other videos I only at the time had that one availible



though I don't know arabic so don't know what is said
Sorry I offended you my deepest apologies

the bombing reminded me of the bombing of America on Baghdad's ammunition dump
which had a huge cloud and flash of light ...like syria

I am not a fan of depleted Uranium ...I admit that

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. So are you going to remove your claim in #20 that Iran sent Hizbollah a nuclear weapon?

Your entire approach to this story has been to exaggerate, misquote, and make things up. To spread fear, if anyone happens to believe what you write.

[lovuian]

30. I do not want to spread any fear

I changed my quote
I would refer you to the NYT article
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/world/middleeast/israel-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Good, because making claims about "nuclear weapons" is hyperbolic and deeply irresponsible.

[lovuian]

31. I am so sorry I will refer to the NYT article

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/world/middleeast/israel-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

this is approved and bonafide source
Israel Targeted Iranian Missiles in Syria Attack
The missile shipment struck by Israel was reported to include Iranian-made Fateh-110’s, a type of mobile, accurate, solid-fueled missile, like this one in a military parade in Tehran in 2010.

there is a picture of the Iranian misile in the article

from the article

Iran and Hezbollah have both backed President Bashar al-Assad in the Syrian civil war, now in its third year. But as fighting in Syria escalates, they also have a powerful interest in expediting the delivery of advanced weapons to Hezbollah in case Mr. Assad loses his grip on power and Syria ceases to be an effective channel for funneling weapons from Iran.

The missiles that were the target of the Israeli raid had been shipped from Iran and were being stored in a warehouse at Damascus International Airport when they were struck, according to an American official.

Iran has sought to use the threat of a Hezbollah missile attack against Israeli territory as a means of building up its ally and deterring Israel from conducting airstrikes on Iranian nuclear installations that Israeli and American officials believe are part of an Iranian nuclear weapons program.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Let's not kid ourselves.

I was on the jury in the V+M thread where you posted the same RT link. There is a HUGE difference between an attack and "using nuclear weapons".

I am glad you're using better sources, now. Thanks.

[lovuian]

33. would Depleted uranium be considered "nuclear weapon"

would you consider that in that classification ....or is it just considered a 'weapon of mass destruction"

Inhaled or ingested DU particles are highly toxic, and DU has been classified as an illegal weapon of mass destruction by the United Nations.

if it has been used and I really hope it hasn't ...the evidence will be easy to confirm by gieger counter readings

The Sub-Commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities of the United Nations Human Rights Commission,[36] passed two motions[37] — the first in 1996[38] and the second in 1997.[39] They listed weapons of mass destruction, or weapons with indiscriminate effect, or of a nature to cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering and urged all states to curb the production and the spread of such weapons. Included in the list was weaponry containing depleted uranium. The committee authorized a working paper, in the context of human rights and humanitarian norms, of the weapons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

“More than ten times the amount of radiation released during atmospheric testing [of nuclear bombs] has been released from DU weaponry since 1991,” said Leuren Moret, a U.S. nuclear scientist.

DU has a half-life
I think it is a very long time

The United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority has estimated that around 50 tons of DU dust from the first gulf war will lead to 500,000 cancer related deaths. Compare this to the 250,000 deaths caused by the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/depleted_uranium_shells_used_by_the_military_are_worse_than_nuclear_weapons.php

Since the first Gulf War, the rate of birth defects and childhood cancer in Iraq has increased by seven times. More than 35 percent (251,000) of U.S. Gulf War veterans are dead or on permanent medical disability, compared with only 400 who were killed during the conflict.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. No, it would not.

I'm not one to argue that DU (depleted uranium, mind you, not the fine website we are on right now ) is not bad shit ... but "nuclear weapons" like "serial killing" is a term with a commonly accepted, colloquial usage, and it is generally accepted to be specific to a certain type of explosive fission chain reaction or fission-fusion-fission thermonuclear reaction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon

[lovuian]

35. I got it the power of words

like the Weapons of Mass Destruction we looked for in Iraq and didn't find
It is about how you word it

some words causes terror and Bush used it to start the preemptive strike on Iraq

Latest news out

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Syria-Israel-used-depleted-uranium-shells-in-Syria-strike-312189

Israel used depleted uranium shells in the alleged strike in Syria on Sunday, a senior Syrian military source told Russia Today on Monday.

"When the explosion happened it felt like an earthquake, then a giant golden mushroom of fire appeared. This tells us that Israel used depleted uranium shells," the source said.

I don't know if Jerusalem Post is a certified and bonafide site here anybody know
oh one more thing Reuters contributed to the report

[pinboy3niner]

37. FACT: DU is NOT a "nuclear weapon"

Regardless of sources or claims on the use of DU, the evidence shows NO use of a nuclear weapon.

[lovuian]

39. do you have some sources

or links
I'd appreciate them
I believe you just would be good to see it
the Huge cloud in the video is what looks to me like a mushroom cloud

[pinboy3niner]

42. Do you have the google?

Nuclear weapons are well-defined, and DU is an entirely different animal.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. That actually tells us that source doesn't know what they're talking about

The DU does not produce "a giant golden mushroom of fire". It doesn't explode. It is very dense, and thus punches through strong buildings or armour, allowing the actual explosive to explode inside the structure, doing more damage.

Reuters may have contributed to the report, but the quote came via an unnamed source and Russia Today. It's possible Russia Today made the source up; it's possible the source was just saying whatever he thought RT wanted to hear; it's possible he just doesn't know much about DU. What the "giant golden mushroom of fire" shows is that it was a big explosion - either the Israelis dropped a very large bomb, or they hit something that exploded - such as the missiles they said they were aiming at.

It is possible that DU was used. But the claim by the anonymous source does not show it.

[lovuian]

46. Don't worry we will find out because depleted uranium is radioactive

and a geiger counter will show it

from the guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/06/syria-israel-bombing-moral-relativism
"Moral relativism"

On Sunday, Israel dropped massive bombs near Damascus, ones which the New York Times, quoting residents, originally reported (then evidently deleted) resulted in explosions "more massive than anything the residents of the city. . . have witnessed during more than two years of war." The Jerusalem Post this morning quoted "a senior Syrian military source" as claiming that "Israel used depleted uranium shells", though that is not confirmed. The NYT cited a "high-ranking Syrian military official" who said the bombs "struck several critical military facilities in some of the country's most tightly secured and strategic areas" and killed "dozens of elite troops stationed near the presidential palace", while the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said that "at least 42 soldiers were killed in the strikes, and another 100 who would usually be at the targeted sites remain unaccounted for."

It is interesting the NYT reported and deleted a report and got caught

but lets carry on here

Obama officials quickly told media outlets that "the administration is fully supportive of Israel's airstrikes". Indeed, Democratic Sen. Pat Leahy noted: "Keep in mind the Israelis are using weapons supplied by us." There is, needless to say, virtually no condemnation of the Israeli assault in US media or political circles. At this point, the only question is how many minutes will elapse before Congress reflexively adopts a near-unanimous or unanimous resolution effusively praising Israel for the attack and unqualifiedly endorsing all past and future attacks as well.


We supplied them with their weapons and BOMBS as I said the Iraq bombing of a ammunitions dump in Baghdad looked very similiar as the Damascus bombing

Iraq has Depleted Uranium

For VICE's upcoming piece on post-war Iraq, premiering on HBO tomorrow night at 11, we interviewed Congressman Jim McDermott of the Seventh District of Washington State. Congressman McDermott has been one of the only experts and advocates in the US government on the issue of depleted uranium in Iraq. We sat down with him to get a firsthand account of the military's history of using depleted uranium munitions, the legacy it has left behind in Iraq, and why the US government refuses to do anything about it.

VICE producers Eddy Moretti and Jason Mojica, along with Congressman McDermott, were guests on HuffPost Live to discuss the rise in birth defects and abnormalities in Iraq


http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/gulf-war-syndrome-and-the-army-s-depleted-uranium-training-videos

Gulf War Syndrome and the Army's Depleted Uranium Training Videos

Read more: http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/gulf-war-syndrome-and-the-army-s-depleted-uranium-training-videos#ixzz2SeM3mPFF

the low-level radioactivity of DU—it’s considered “depleted” because it has a lower percentage of the more radioactive uranium isotopes, the opposite of enriched uranium used in bomb-making—was a constant presence for troops handling ordinance deemed more or less safe. That radiation is an oft-cited cause of Gulf War Syndrome, a condition that affected (and in many cases, continues to affect) around 250,000 of the 697,000 vets who served in the first Gulf War. Symptoms include fatigue, musculoskeletal pain, cognitive problems, skin rashes and diarrhea.

In a pamphlet for veterans afflicted with Gulf War Syndrome, the Support Network for an Armed Forces Union wrote that the Pentagon used at least 300 tons of DU during the first Gulf War, while estimates figure at least 1,700 tons in the the latest war in Iraq. According to Dr. Doug Rokke, former director of the Army’s DU project, "today’s troops have been fighting on land polluted with chemical, biological and radioactive weapon residue from the first Gulf War and its aftermath. In this setting, troops have been exposed not only to sandstorms, which degrade the lungs, but to oil fires and waste created by the use of uranium projectiles in tanks, aircraft, machine guns and missiles.

[lovuian]

38. Tactical Nuclear weapons ...How Bunker Busters work

DU forms a uranium-oxide smoke that is easily inhaled and that settles on the ground miles from the point of use. Once inhaled or ingested, depleted-uranium smoke can do a great deal of damage to the human body because of its radioactivity. See How Nuclear Radiation Works for details.

The Pentagon has developed tactical nuclear weapons to reach the most heavily fortified and deeply buried bunkers. The idea is to marry a small nuclear bomb with a penetrating bomb casing to create a weapon that can penetrate deep into the ground and then explode with nuclear force. The B61-11, available since 1997, is the current state of the art in the area of nuclear bunker busters.

From a practical standpoint, the advantage of a small nuclear bomb is that it can pack so much explosive force into such a small space. (See How Nuclear Bombs Work for details.) The B61-11 can carry a nuclear charge with anywhere between a 1-kiloton (1,000 tons of TNT) and a 300-kiloton yield. For comparison, the bomb used on Hiroshima had a yield of approximately 15 kilotons. The shock wave from such an intense underground explosion would cause damage deep in the earth and would presumably destroy even the most well-fortified bunker.

From an environmental and diplomatic standpoint, however, the use of the B61-11 raises a number of issues. There is no way for any known penetrating bomb to bury itself deeply enough to contain a nuclear blast. This means that the B61-11 would leave an immense crater and eject a huge amount of radioactive fallout into the air. Diplomatically, the B61-11 is problematic because it violates the international desire to eliminate the use of nuclear weapons. See FAS.org: Low-Yield Earth-Penetrating Nuclear Weapons for details.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/bunker-buster3.htm

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. This was not a nuclear weapon

There's no point in linking to discussions of nuclear weapons. This wasn't one of them. No-one who knows what a nuclear weapon is - Assad, Iran, or anyone - thought for a moment that this was a nuclear weapon.

Fairly obviously, you've Googled "depleted uranium" and "nuclear weapon", and posted a result, hoping this shows something. It doesn't. As we can see from your link, that was not a nuclear weapon - "There is no way for any known penetrating bomb to bury itself deeply enough to contain a nuclear blast. This means that the B61-11 would leave an immense crater and eject a huge amount of radioactive fallout into the air" - and there was no nuclear blast, was there?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. Of course, if Syria strikes back, we will brand it the aggressor nation and send "help" to Israel.

Israeli tail wags American dog.

[lovuian]

43. I would love an official statement by Israel

it would definitely clear up the speculation