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kpete

(71,965 posts)
Tue May 7, 2013, 09:04 AM May 2013

I fear for Julian Assange. I fear for Bradley Manning. I fear for us all.

The Death of Truth
By Chris Hedges

................

The world has been turned upside down. The pestilence of corporate totalitarianism is spreading rapidly over the earth. The criminals have seized power. It is not, in the end, simply Assange or Manning they want. It is all who dare to defy the official narrative, to expose the big lie of the global corporate state. The persecution of Assange and Manning is the harbinger of what is to come, the rise of a bitter world where criminals in Brooks Brothers suits and gangsters in beribboned military uniforms—propped up by a vast internal and external security apparatus, a compliant press and a morally bankrupt political elite—monitor and crush those who dissent. Writers, artists, actors, journalists, scientists, intellectuals and workers will be forced to obey or thrown into bondage. I fear for Julian Assange. I fear for Bradley Manning. I fear for us all.

5 more pages:
http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/the_death_of_truth_20130505/

97 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I fear for Julian Assange. I fear for Bradley Manning. I fear for us all. (Original Post) kpete May 2013 OP
du rec. nt xchrom May 2013 #1
Kick, Rec. n/t Smarmie Doofus May 2013 #2
The pestilence of corporate totalitarianism is spreading rapidly over the earth. progressoid May 2013 #3
+1 snagglepuss May 2013 #14
Every right-wing initiative feeds the pestilence of corporate indepat May 2013 #48
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" davidn3600 May 2013 #4
And we are on their list... ReRe May 2013 #6
Reminds me of another quote demwing May 2013 #7
And there you have why the Liberal Arts are being destroyed in schools by bureaucrats. WinkyDink May 2013 #5
Yes, can't have the little beggars learning to THINK about things that don't have Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #45
+1 tex-wyo-dem May 2013 #58
George Orwell was just off by a few decades! Dustlawyer May 2013 #8
The worshippers will do quite well. K & R L0oniX May 2013 #9
Even as the NRA, insane celebrities and politicians, and local sheriffs speak treason and sedition, mountain grammy May 2013 #10
I award this piece of writing ... frazzled May 2013 #11
No shit railsback May 2013 #61
Some of your words could be translated into German defacto7 May 2013 #78
+1!!! nt MADem May 2013 #79
Oh for cripes sake agent46 May 2013 #81
Funny, because I find the devotion to this type of ... frazzled May 2013 #87
yeah, I guess it is kind of sexy agent46 May 2013 #93
Chris Hedges has always been prone to hyperbole... judy May 2013 #12
It's possible that Hedges is prone to hyperbole on account of the fact that truedelphi May 2013 #21
Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. JDPriestly May 2013 #13
I had the most visceral reaction of disgust libodem May 2013 #15
I've always wondered why Manning/Assange are persecuted and yet Cheney/Novak walk(s,ed) free KansDem May 2013 #16
Hedges has put into words what most of us already know.... KauaiK May 2013 #17
I don't know. When Corporations control the media, when they control truedelphi May 2013 #20
Do what Julian did. Run and hide in Ecuador. randome May 2013 #30
DURec for Assange, Manning, Wikileaks, and ALL Whistleblowers. bvar22 May 2013 #18
K&R the WWW is a double edged sword for the elite usGovOwesUs3Trillion May 2013 #19
"the WWW is a double edged sword for the elite" tex-wyo-dem May 2013 #60
Julian Assange - the only probable rapist it's fashionable to admire. Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #22
"probable rapist" whatchamacallit May 2013 #23
What's wrong with persecuting rapists? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #24
I missed the parts whatchamacallit May 2013 #25
You also missed the part where he skipped bail to avoid facing Swedish authorities. randome May 2013 #26
Yeah rand ome whatchamacallit May 2013 #28
yeah, a lot of agenda minded folks miss those details usGovOwesUs3Trillion May 2013 #63
Please tell my you're joking? Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #27
Charge and convict him of what exactly? whatchamacallit May 2013 #29
Of having sex with people without their consent - i.e. rape. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #38
An idiotic assertion whatchamacallit May 2013 #40
Have you ever actually looked at the three charges against him? hack89 May 2013 #90
I agree. Dont you just hate whistle-blowers. They make things so messy. rhett o rick May 2013 #52
Manning was not a whistleblower. Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #68
Exposing war crimes is not a crime. grahamhgreen May 2013 #70
Releasing classified documents is a crime. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #74
Not when it exposes a war crime. nt grahamhgreen May 2013 #75
Are you referring to "Collateral Murder?" Pelican May 2013 #82
And rationalization is the key to happiness. rhett o rick May 2013 #86
You're taking the simple way out on transparency: "It's us v. them", and "them" is bad. toby jo May 2013 #91
Well written post. I agree with most of what you said, however rhett o rick May 2013 #92
please, link to the official charges against him. Oh, there aren't any you say? Interesting... usGovOwesUs3Trillion May 2013 #64
That's utterly contemptible. Go look up how the Swedish legal system works. Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #69
Yep ~ "The pestilence of corporate totalitarianism is spreading rapidly over the earth"... Zorra May 2013 #32
Indeed whatchamacallit May 2013 #33
The word you were fumbling for was 'Alleged'. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #34
That too, but also "probably guilty". Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #35
Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat AtheistCrusader May 2013 #36
You do know that's a principle specific to courts of law, not to general life, don't you? Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #37
He could very easily be tried in absentia. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #39
That's the position that you need to adopt to make the status quo seem acceptable. sibelian May 2013 #85
Swedish law is very different from that of other countries when it comes to rape. mn9driver May 2013 #42
Oh, another pathetic Ad Hominem attack: grahamhgreen May 2013 #71
What are you blathering about? Assange has not made any claims I am disputing. Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #73
Your attacking his character not his arguments. Ad Hominem grahamhgreen May 2013 #76
No, ad hominem is attacking character as a means of attacking arguments. Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #77
Wow, that paragraph expresses my feelings so perfectly. Thanks. nt Zorra May 2013 #31
Don't forget the Walkers! whistler162 May 2013 #41
fear rso May 2013 #43
Why do you think that Wikileaks did not consider the impact on people's lives? Where did you sabrina 1 May 2013 #57
Must read! grahamhgreen May 2013 #72
Assange rso May 2013 #84
A talking point. I did ask where you got it from but you didn't say. Headline grabber, okay here sabrina 1 May 2013 #89
Assange rso May 2013 #95
'Talking points' is a talking point for some. randome May 2013 #96
assange rso May 2013 #97
Chris Hedges is a treasure. JEB May 2013 #44
Not well thought out... Half-Century Man May 2013 #46
That is interesting that they would allow... tex-wyo-dem May 2013 #65
I'm terrified that the realization event.... Half-Century Man May 2013 #66
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT May 2013 #47
Chris Hedges is just a chronic whiner 99th_Monkey May 2013 #49
Wait a minute. Is that sarcastic sarcasm? Or ironic, sarcastic sarcasm? randome May 2013 #51
LOL n/t 99th_Monkey May 2013 #55
The BEST real journalist in Amerika today. Fuddnik May 2013 #54
It was fun 99th_Monkey May 2013 #59
The POLICE STATE cometh. blkmusclmachine May 2013 #50
The Revolution is waiting. nm rhett o rick May 2013 #53
The POLICE STATE be hereth. Fuddnik May 2013 #56
Must be terrible to live in perpetual fear. sagat May 2013 #62
k and r for Hedges, Assange and Manning. bbgrunt May 2013 #67
It seems a few here think the times have changed. defacto7 May 2013 #80
Assange is reportedly worth £1.3 million and lives in a Knightsbridge embassy ucrdem May 2013 #83
He SHOULD be worth much, much more for the excellent contributions he has made to the sabrina 1 May 2013 #88
K&R woo me with science May 2013 #94

indepat

(20,899 posts)
48. Every right-wing initiative feeds the pestilence of corporate
Tue May 7, 2013, 07:38 PM
May 2013

totalitarianism imo: that is why I'm opposed to every right-wing initiative, no matter the initiator.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
6. And we are on their list...
Tue May 7, 2013, 10:20 AM
May 2013

... and I am proud to be there. Give me effing liberty or give me effing death!~

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
7. Reminds me of another quote
Tue May 7, 2013, 10:25 AM
May 2013

"Perhaps--on the rare occasion--pursuing the right course demands an act of piracy, piracy itself can be the right course?"

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
45. Yes, can't have the little beggars learning to THINK about things that don't have
Tue May 7, 2013, 06:44 PM
May 2013

one right answer and on which there can be legitimate differences of opinion.

You can't have them appreciating beauty and complexity and ambiguity.

Just the bottom line.

mountain grammy

(26,600 posts)
10. Even as the NRA, insane celebrities and politicians, and local sheriffs speak treason and sedition,
Tue May 7, 2013, 10:39 AM
May 2013

and support terrorists and terrorism against the people, Bradley Manning sits in solitary confinement.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
11. I award this piece of writing ...
Tue May 7, 2013, 10:39 AM
May 2013

The prestigious Hyperbole Prize.

It's got everything: a world turned upside down!! pestilence and totalitarianism!! a bitter world in which everything is a lie and everyone is wanted!! (Beware!! The thought police are coming for you!!).

And for the icing on the cake, we have writers and artists being forced to obey or thrown into bondage. Bondage, I tell you!! Joyce Carol Oates in chains. The elderly Jasper Johns dragged from his studio and made to carry heavy stones on his back.

I fear for people who respond to this kind of overwrought hyperbole. Honestly. It's possible to talk about these issues without resorting to pathos.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
78. Some of your words could be translated into German
Wed May 8, 2013, 03:15 AM
May 2013

and spoken by many officials in Austria just before the Anschluß. And those sentiments were spoken almost verbatim, sarcasm and all.

agent46

(1,262 posts)
81. Oh for cripes sake
Wed May 8, 2013, 03:46 AM
May 2013

Take your slavish devotion to conventional wisdom somewhere where it will do some good - maybe a parallel universe.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
87. Funny, because I find the devotion to this type of ...
Wed May 8, 2013, 09:49 AM
May 2013

manipulative, gooey language the epitome of conventional wisdom.

It's like the bodice-ripper romance novel of political thought. If you're easily manipulated and don't want to think too hard, you'll eat it up.

judy

(1,942 posts)
12. Chris Hedges has always been prone to hyperbole...
Tue May 7, 2013, 10:50 AM
May 2013

However, it is true that the Bradley Manning case shows that we are on the wrong track through and through.
I read the statement he made at the opening of his trial. I am surprised that he did not mention the judgment at Nuremberg, which established the United States as one of the moral guardians of the world.

They hanged those German officers, because they followed orders, and these orders constituted war crimes.
Bradley Manning is standing up for the moral compass of this country, which was lost after WW II, drowned in a sea of greed and hypocrisy.
Argh...

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
21. It's possible that Hedges is prone to hyperbole on account of the fact that
Tue May 7, 2013, 03:08 PM
May 2013

Most Americans only respond to such.

USA! USDA! Weapons of Mass Destruction means we go to war or die in a mushroom cloud! Etc. All that from our "Elected Officials." So who knows. Is Hedges sometimes too hyperbolic? Or is his means of expressing himself the epitome of what he needs to be?

In any event I agree with your analysis regarding Manning and the Nuremberg Court. I doubt that War Tribunal is even being taught in our schools any more, don't you?

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
13. Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.
Tue May 7, 2013, 11:26 AM
May 2013

The New York Times, The Guardian, El Pais, Le Monde and Der Spiegel giddily printed redacted copies of some of the WikiLeaks files and then promptly threw Assange and Manning to the sharks. It was not only morally repugnant, but also stunningly shortsighted. Do these news organizations believe that if the state shuts down organizations such as WikiLeaks and imprisons Manning and Assange, traditional news outlets will be left alone? Can’t they connect the dots between the prosecutions of government whistle-blowers under the Espionage Act, warrantless wiretapping, monitoring of communications and the persecution of Manning and Assange? Don’t they worry that when the state finishes with Manning, Assange and WikiLeaks, these atrophied news outlets will be next? Haven’t they realized that this is a war by a global corporate elite not against an organization or an individual but against the freedom of the press and democracy?

http://www.truthdig.com/dig/page5/the_death_of_truth_20130505/

It's a very thoughtful article. Not just about Assange and Manning but about all of us who want to know more than what can be seen at a glance from a passing bus -- not just about state secrets but everything else.

Our government is completely unrealistic if it thinks that it can keep so many secrets from so many curious eyes.

Humans are naturally curious. We want to know why the sky is blue. We want to know what really happens behind all those closed doors. If you want people to listen to what you are saying, whisper. That's the secret of seasoned teachers. Just whisper.

And that is what our government does. It whispers its secrets to just enough people and just loud enough so that we all become very quiet and pay lots of attention. What fools!

And why are there so many shameful secrets in the first place? That's the real scandal here.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
15. I had the most visceral reaction of disgust
Tue May 7, 2013, 11:53 AM
May 2013

In 1984 when I saw the movie Brazil. I was mad for a year. Now the surrealness of it is coming true. Sick and sad.

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
16. I've always wondered why Manning/Assange are persecuted and yet Cheney/Novak walk(s,ed) free
Tue May 7, 2013, 11:53 AM
May 2013

It all has to do with the the Power Elite...

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
20. I don't know. When Corporations control the media, when they control
Tue May 7, 2013, 02:51 PM
May 2013

Most of our elected officials, when our elections are basically shams, what do we do?

 

usGovOwesUs3Trillion

(2,022 posts)
19. K&R the WWW is a double edged sword for the elite
Tue May 7, 2013, 12:49 PM
May 2013

Imagine a world where all governments can no longer keep secret from the governed all their deeds, both good and ill.

That is a world that concerned netizens are working towards, daily, and I applaud their efforts and bravery!

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)
60. "the WWW is a double edged sword for the elite"
Wed May 8, 2013, 12:30 AM
May 2013

You're absolutely right about that, which is why there has been so much effort to legally censor the Internet.

China has shown them the way...a testbed of sorts. Now they want to implement it worldwide.

http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2008/05/chinas-all-seeing-eye

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
22. Julian Assange - the only probable rapist it's fashionable to admire.
Tue May 7, 2013, 03:10 PM
May 2013

(Except possibly Arthur Koestler, I guess).

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
25. I missed the parts
Tue May 7, 2013, 04:02 PM
May 2013

where he was charged, tried, and convicted. These days, totalitarian tools go straight to the persecuting.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
26. You also missed the part where he skipped bail to avoid facing Swedish authorities.
Tue May 7, 2013, 04:04 PM
May 2013

Of course, I'm sure it's all a super-duper double secret plan to 'get' him.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
28. Yeah rand ome
Tue May 7, 2013, 04:13 PM
May 2013

the massive international effort, cost, and time have only every been to find out if dude used a condom.

 

usGovOwesUs3Trillion

(2,022 posts)
63. yeah, a lot of agenda minded folks miss those details
Wed May 8, 2013, 12:39 AM
May 2013

it's amazing how much they miss, when you stop and think about it... but even though it is pointed out time and again, they still refuse to acknowledge... pretty revealing, eh?

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
27. Please tell my you're joking?
Tue May 7, 2013, 04:08 PM
May 2013

The persecution Assange is facing is people trying to charge, try and convict him, despite the fact that he's gone on the run!

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
29. Charge and convict him of what exactly?
Tue May 7, 2013, 04:18 PM
May 2013

It takes a special kind of mind to refuse to recognize this witch hunt for what it is. Like the OP fears; a sign of the times...

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
52. I agree. Dont you just hate whistle-blowers. They make things so messy.
Tue May 7, 2013, 11:34 PM
May 2013

The corporatist overlords can garner millions to persecute him. And the weak-minded among us will follow the corporatist overlords because it is so much easier than thinking for themselves. God Save our Corporate Kingdom.

Curious, do you think of yourself as a "politically liberal person?"

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
68. Manning was not a whistleblower.
Wed May 8, 2013, 02:49 AM
May 2013

Whistleblowing is where you *first* find evidence of wrongdoing, and *secondly* release that evidence (c.f. Throat, Deep).

When you release a large quantity of classified documents, the vast majority of which you have no idea of the contents of, that's not whistleblowing.

There's nothing illiberal about believing that the government should be able to keep secrets.

 

Pelican

(1,156 posts)
82. Are you referring to "Collateral Murder?"
Wed May 8, 2013, 03:52 AM
May 2013

... or just the whole "I think the war was illegal so everything is a war crime?"

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
86. And rationalization is the key to happiness.
Wed May 8, 2013, 08:39 AM
May 2013

There is a huge problem with OUR government keeping secrets from us.

No one is making the argument that OUR government shouldnt keep secrets but some of us want more transparency.

And I would think "politically liberal peoples" would want more transparency and choose the side of the person trying to expose that OUR government's lack of transparency instead of taking the side of Big Brother.

 

toby jo

(1,269 posts)
91. You're taking the simple way out on transparency: "It's us v. them", and "them" is bad.
Wed May 8, 2013, 10:22 AM
May 2013

What happens to the political unit that is "us", when it can be completely destabilized by a hacker?

We have to take responsibility for being empowered with the ability to keep secrets. You really don't want that type of destabilization to take place. You're seeing this through the eyes of one with no power, and assuming govt. will kick in and protect you if there is an issue due to the release of state secrets. The govt. is seeing this in terms of their NOT being able to protect you due to the release of state secrets.

Not a black/white issue:

I ran a citizen's group for years on radio-frequency weapons. Our govt has people in psyche wards, prisons, and hiding out in their basements with blankets over the windows to keep the noise, the voices, the target-beam weaponry out of their consciousness. Victims have committed suicide, infanticide, and murder under the stress of these weapons. Using people's minds as vehicles to carrier frequencies that can bend brainwaves is evil stuff, no doubt.

But yet I understand the blanket reasoning of a govt to keep secrets safe from undue hacking.

We need more transparency. We're in over our heads with greed, and have our fingers where they don't belong. But I don't want anybody to have the ability to hack into my country's data bank. Who is the next 'anybody', and is their agenda yours?
There are better ways.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
92. Well written post. I agree with most of what you said, however
Wed May 8, 2013, 12:39 PM
May 2013

we are in a class war and losing badly. I personally believe we passed the point of no return. "You say there are better ways", I would change that to "there should be better ways". If there are better ways I sure dont see them. And we've been told that for decades, "Dont look behind the curtain without permission (which is never granted)".

Our government is totally out of control as revealed by these leaks. The leaks are not a method of fixing a problem but a way to expose them like all whistle-blowing. Punishing Manning as a martyr is only intended as terror. OUR government, instead of fixing the transparency problem want to terrorize citizens into not looking behind the curtain.

We, the 99%, are losing more and more power every day with no fix in sight. Some HOPEd that Barack Obama would stand with the 99% but he is choosing the other side.

Nothing is ever "black or white" but when someone is trying to kill you, it's pretty damn close. "The Elite Overlords dont want to kill us, but if we get in their way of more profits and power and get killed, they wont care."

The Revolution is waiting.

 

usGovOwesUs3Trillion

(2,022 posts)
64. please, link to the official charges against him. Oh, there aren't any you say? Interesting...
Wed May 8, 2013, 12:42 AM
May 2013

how he is condemned by some, nonetheless :shakes-head:

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
69. That's utterly contemptible. Go look up how the Swedish legal system works.
Wed May 8, 2013, 02:50 AM
May 2013

They won't log formal charges until they have him in custody, and I suspect you know that and are deliberately being deceptive.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
32. Yep ~ "The pestilence of corporate totalitarianism is spreading rapidly over the earth"...
Tue May 7, 2013, 04:33 PM
May 2013

And it is quite apparent that DU has been deliberately infected with the deadly Third Way Asshole Virus.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
35. That too, but also "probably guilty".
Tue May 7, 2013, 05:09 PM
May 2013

"Alleged" sometimes has connotations of "we think he's innocent" which I wanted to avoid.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
37. You do know that's a principle specific to courts of law, not to general life, don't you?
Tue May 7, 2013, 05:19 PM
May 2013

Yes, it's quite right that a court of law should place the burden of proof on the accuser, and treat the accused as innocent until proven guilty.

No, that doesn't mean that in our capacity as private citizens we should pretend that everyone who has so far outrun the law is probably innocent.

Moreover, I'm afraid I suspect that you know that, and that you only pretend not to when the accused is someone you admire.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
39. He could very easily be tried in absentia.
Tue May 7, 2013, 05:26 PM
May 2013

He won't be, because that clearly isn't the purpose of the allegations.
He has not been found guilty of anything, the allegations remain that; allegations.

As to admiration, I am neither for nor against Assange as a person. I respect and appreciate some of the things he has done, that is all.
You seem to assume his guilt quite strongly. I think that is a shameful position. You are aware that I am just as entitled to that assessment, as you are of his guilt, yes? I think it is a deplorable thing to say.

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
85. That's the position that you need to adopt to make the status quo seem acceptable.
Wed May 8, 2013, 07:52 AM
May 2013

... which positions seem to come to you very easily , Donald.

mn9driver

(4,420 posts)
42. Swedish law is very different from that of other countries when it comes to rape.
Tue May 7, 2013, 05:36 PM
May 2013

Read up on it. And read the public statements made by the alleged victims. The charges Assange faces in Sweden are consistent with a successful attempt by the power elite to neutralize him in the eyes of the world. The premise of the OP is correct.

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
71. Oh, another pathetic Ad Hominem attack:
Wed May 8, 2013, 02:52 AM
May 2013

Description of Ad Hominem

Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
73. What are you blathering about? Assange has not made any claims I am disputing.
Wed May 8, 2013, 02:56 AM
May 2013

If I were to say "Assange is a rapist, and therefor the wikileaks are fabricated", that would be an example of an ad hominem attack.

But "Assange is a rapist, and therefor he should be sent to Sweden and prosecuted there" is just an attack, plain and direct.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
77. No, ad hominem is attacking character as a means of attacking arguments.
Wed May 8, 2013, 03:09 AM
May 2013

Assange hasn't *made* any arguments.

I think you are confused.

rso

(2,267 posts)
43. fear
Tue May 7, 2013, 06:06 PM
May 2013

I am a progressive and generally agree with your points. However, I consider both Assange and Manning to be nothing but irresponsible headline hunters. If you want to expose a specific situation, event or injustice that's one thing. But you do not simply just dump everything into the public arena without considering the impact on people's lives, relations between nations etc..

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
57. Why do you think that Wikileaks did not consider the impact on people's lives? Where did you
Wed May 8, 2013, 12:01 AM
May 2013

read that? Did you know that Wikileaks contacted the US Military and asked them for help with ensuring that no harm would come to anyone, and that the military refused to do so?

Are you aware that Wikileaks worked with several major news outlets including he NY Times because they had the staff that Wikileaks lacked who could sort through the vast amounts of material they had been given. All those news organizations published that material. Do you think they were also irresponsible? Or is publishing facts something the media should do?

It's astounding how propaganda and lies spread so quickly and people seem so unwilling to seek out facts even when they are available.

No one was harmed by Wikileaks' work. Even Gates admitted that. Yet this perception prevails even though it is false.

The irony is that this country thought nothing of getting our soldiers killed based on LIES or killing, speaking of 'endangering', over one million human beings based on LIES. And that not one criminal has been held accountable for any of those crimes.

But the people who reported on those horrific crimes are the ones being persecuted.

The Cables revealed so much about how this country operates, yet I doubt many Americans have bothered to even read them. People around the world now know eg, that the Obama administration intervened in the Spanish Court's case against Bush Torturers and intimidated the Court into dropping the case, FOR NOW. How shameful that other countries are going to have to prosecute OUR War Criminals because we refuse to do so ourselves.

Chris Hedges is one of the few journalists left with the courage to tell the truth. He needs to watch his back considering the persecution of whistle blowers, protesters against Wall St. corruption, journalists who report facts such as eg, Ashley Banfield. This is a very, very bad period in our history and will probably be recorded that way and we will all be judged by history as to how we dealt with the injustices we witnessed.

rso

(2,267 posts)
84. Assange
Wed May 8, 2013, 06:24 AM
May 2013

Sorry, there is absolutely no excuse for taking all the info that you have and just dumping it entirely for all to see. Assange is nothing but a headline-grabber and sensationalist, no better that Issa and the republicans.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
89. A talking point. I did ask where you got it from but you didn't say. Headline grabber, okay here
Wed May 8, 2013, 09:53 AM
May 2013

is a 'headline grabber': 'WMDs in Iraq' 'Mushroom Clouds Coming our Way' etc etc. Those 'headline grabbers' got millions killed, tortured and maimed for life.

Priorities, some people's priorities involve getting the truth and holding criminals accountable. Others do not want the truth for some reason.

rso

(2,267 posts)
95. Assange
Wed May 8, 2013, 06:15 PM
May 2013

"Headline grabber" is my view, why did I have to get it from somewhere else ? Do you get your info strictly from others, or do you sometimes form your own view ?. And just because Bush and his gang did despicable things, does not mean that Assange is correct. I served for many years abroad in our Foreign Service, and the wholesale, random and indiscriminate dumping of diplomatic communications by Assange was nothing short of a criminal act.

 

JEB

(4,748 posts)
44. Chris Hedges is a treasure.
Tue May 7, 2013, 06:41 PM
May 2013

And often the conscience of Progressives. Watch your back and stay off of small planes.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
46. Not well thought out...
Tue May 7, 2013, 06:56 PM
May 2013

...they did make sure we were well armed. as disturbing as that is, the time we are thankful for that small grace might not be far off.

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)
65. That is interesting that they would allow...
Wed May 8, 2013, 12:50 AM
May 2013

Common citizens to be so well armed. But the one glaring weakness of the corporate oligarchy is their insatiable greed and desire for profit. When Obama pushed for strengthened gun laws, the people prone to fear of government takeover went running to their nearest gun dealer to buy as much hardware and ammo they could, which was a profit bonanza!

Maybe in the end this shortsightedness will be the undoing of the corpoate state. Unfortunately, those who are most radical in their gun ownership are often blind to who their true enemy really is.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
66. I'm terrified that the realization event....
Wed May 8, 2013, 12:59 AM
May 2013

...will be catastrophically bloody. And I think those on high fail to realized their lack of appeal.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
49. Chris Hedges is just a chronic whiner
Tue May 7, 2013, 10:19 PM
May 2013

who is never happy with anything our great POTUS says or does.

Just because the sky really is falling, is no excuse for him being such
a Chicken Little all the time.

Better Chris should give it up -- get a good hobby or just go get drunk or
stoned --rather than constantly pointing out how Obama is essentially
continuing the Bush Crime Family agenda, and even enhancing
some of it, with fancy drones and such.

Go get a life Mr. Hedges!!!

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
51. Wait a minute. Is that sarcastic sarcasm? Or ironic, sarcastic sarcasm?
Tue May 7, 2013, 11:22 PM
May 2013

I think I'm having a seizure.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
59. It was fun
Wed May 8, 2013, 12:19 AM
May 2013
pretending to be one of "them". .. i.e. a Chris Hedges hater.

I hope my intent was clear to most.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
80. It seems a few here think the times have changed.
Wed May 8, 2013, 03:27 AM
May 2013

The short sighted think history is past and now is new. No... it a circle that goes round and round and where she stops... look in a history book. It repeats itself.

Beware of the Anschluß. It's like a tamping 1939 on an ink blotter and stamping it on 2016 give or take. Or you can pretend it's not happening and laugh your way to servitude.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
83. Assange is reportedly worth £1.3 million and lives in a Knightsbridge embassy
Wed May 8, 2013, 06:21 AM
May 2013

guarded at a cost to London taxpayers of £3 million as of February. If they ever get tired of paying his bills here's a house for sale in nearby Herbert Crescent:



"Herbert Crescent is a quiet street of Queen Anne style red-brick terraced houses and is within easy walking distance of the green and open spaces of Hyde Park and the amenities and facilities of Knightsbridge."

Asking price: £22 million. Maybe Hedges fears that Julian might miss out on this great deal?

http://www.primelocation.com/for-sale/details/27080577

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
88. He SHOULD be worth much, much more for the excellent contributions he has made to the
Wed May 8, 2013, 09:49 AM
May 2013

world in restoring the notion that the 'NEWS media should be about recording facts.

Murdoch, who lied about a war that killed thousands of our soldiers, hundreds of thousands of innocent people around the world, is worth BILLIONS eg. But he is feted in DC by our own leaders. Even the exposed scandals in Britain have not resulted in him being 'held in an Embassy' anywhere, he is still protected by the same governments who used his willingness to lie to the people, to start their illegal wars.

What a silly comment frankly. I would willingly contribute to those like Wikileaks who eg, exposed the corruption of the Banks in Iceland resulting in the law actually being applied there.

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