Boy, 12, Shot in Face by 11-Year-Old; Neither Aware of Reduction in Gun Crime (updated!)

[Robb]

Last edited Mon May 13, 2013, 10:03 AM - Edit history (1)

CAMDEN, N.J. – A 12-year-old was rushed to the hospital after being shot in the face by an 11-year-old in New Jersey Friday morning.

The shooting happened at about 8 a.m. at an apartment on Hunter Street in the Crestbury Apartments.

According to investigators, neither the 12-year-old nor the 11-year-old were aware that the nation's gun homicide rate was actually down; in retrospect, both boys said they felt foolish being concerned about silly old guns.

In related news, the 3 year-old shot yesterday in D.C., the 2 year-old shot the day before in Texas and 2 year-old shot the day before that in Kentucky released a joint and mostly posthumous statement condemning the media for promulgating fears that guns pose any kind of danger to the country's children.

"I was woefully uninformed!"

[kenny blankenship]

1. Guns don't kill people. Children kill people.

Let's be adult about this subject for once. It's pretty obvious what's going on here. Every gun is innocent. It's as innocent today as the day it first left the foundry. Sometimes though they are corrupted, abused by wicked children, pulled unwittingly into their wicked schemes, and then we say oh another senseless tragedy has occurred. So don't lock up the guns - lock up the kids. They're a fucking plague on civilization!

[Shadrach]

5. No kidding

I wonder what is the next logic excuse from the gun lobby not to regulate gun sales and ownership.

[etherealtruth]

10. Oh come on ... You are being ridiculous

The answer is to arm ALL of the children, all of the time!

More Guns!

[RC]

2. Where are the gun nutz that think everyone needs to have a gun to protect us from people with guns?

Come on now, if kids can act like gun toting adults and kill people, think how safe we adults are with our guns.
Really, think about it.

[femmocrat]

3. Good grief. There seems to be one of these child-on-child shootings every day.

I don't get the part about their being "unaware".... why would kids be aware of that?

[galileoreloaded]

4. its a ploy using selection bias.

you can ignore it.

[baldguy]

6. Yes, please ignore all the children who suffer & die

because "reasonable gun owners" refuse to act responsibly.

[galileoreloaded]

9. im always suspicious of people willing to use emotional

ploys to make cheap political points.

its shady, but always transparent.

[baldguy]

13. I'm sure the families of the children of Sandy Hook feel their loss is "cheap".

And your buddies at the NRA would never stoop to that level, right?

[galileoreloaded]

15. yeah, me and wayne play "flip cup" every friday. herp nt

[maddezmom]

30. You're suspicious of Robb?

He has been very transparent about his views and has been here for years.

[The Magistrate]

36. He A Funny Fella, Ma'am, Our 'Gallileo'....

[maddezmom]

45. Funny is one word

[The Magistrate]

47. Indeed, Ma'am: Several Others Come Readily To Mind

"This one makes my thumbs twitch...."

[Lizzie Poppet]

55. Emotional pleas, selection bias, straw men...

This thread delivers!

[2ndAmForComputers]

14. You say it like it's a bad thing.

Being shocked by things that are shocking, and ashamed of things that are shameful. What's wrong with that?

[galileoreloaded]

17. well for one...

studies have shown that promoting an amygdala hijack or over saturation of the emotion centers causes up to a 30 point drop in IQ.

no thanks.

[2ndAmForComputers]

19. Whereas the mental stress of trying to deny unpleasant facts...

...increases the risk of heart attack by 41.7%.

[galileoreloaded]

21. i believe it. thats why i deal in facts and not

emotional rhetoric. the core of emotional pain is not dealing with reality. sucks

[2ndAmForComputers]

22. Some facts are intrinsically emotional.

And they're still facts.

[galileoreloaded]

24. facts don't have emotions, humans do.

the pit bull, the tornado, and the bullet have no emotional matrix. a rock is, or isn't hard, it doesn't care which. thats the logic of a child.

thats all us..

[The Magistrate]

29. 'Team NRA' And The Whole Gun Fetishist Crew, Sir, Ought To Be Ashamed

And ought to be publicly shamed, mocked and ridiculed at every turn.

It is exactly what is deserved.

[ellisonz]

39. I've decided based on the talk above...

galileoreloaded (1,725 posts)
17. well for one...

View profile
studies have shown that promoting an amygdala hijack or over saturation of the emotion centers causes up to a 30 point drop in IQ.

no thanks.

That this must be the DU account of Dr. Jason Richwine.

[Cali_Democrat]

8. Ignore kids killing kids?

[otohara]

11. There's A Real Effort to Minimize Gun Violence

These are the good ole days compared to the bad old days.
More guns = less crime, but more guns + children are proving to be a deadly mix.

[marble falls]

12. I'd say that both of the agriest sides of gun control are fighting under a misconception...

that crime is pouring all over us.

1. Christian Science Monitor

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0508/With-gun-violence-down-is-America-arming-against-an-imagined-threat-video

With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat? (+video)

A Pew study released Tuesday finds that Americans think gun violence has escalated when in reality it's way down from two decades ago. The violence has dropped, meanwhile, even as gun ownership has increased.

2. http://www.numberof.net/number-of-guns-in-america/



How many guns are there in America?

238 million

As per the estimation, now in America there are between 238 million and 276 million privately owned firearms. Nobody knows for sure the exact number. There are unauthorized illegal arms like machine guns and grenade launchers are being smuggled in undetected and there is no federal gun registry for the legally owned firearms either.

3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle#United_States

According to Ward's, the U.S. has the largest fleet of motor vehicles in the world, with 239.8 million by 2010, and vehicle ownership per capita in the U.S. is also the highest in the world with 769 vehicles in operation per 1000 inhabitants, or a ratio of 1:1.3 vehicles to people.[4] The U.S. Department of Energy reports a higher motorization rate of 828 vehicles per 1000 people and a total fleet of 245,441 vehicles by 2009. According to USDoE, the rate of motorization peaked in 2007 at 842.6 vehicles per 1000 people.[16] In terms of licensed drivers, as of 2009 the country had 1.0 vehicle for every licensed driver, and 1.87 vehicles per household.[17 (or 84% of 331,000,000 or about 260,000,000.

4. Child deaths by fire arms:

http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/protect-children-not-guns-report-2009.html

The latest data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that 3,184 children and teens died from gunfire in the United States in 2006—a 6 percent increase from 2005. This means one young life lost every two hours and 45 minutes, almost nine every day, 61 every week.

Of these deaths, 2,225 were homicides, 763 were suicides and 196 were due to an accident or undetermined circumstances. Boys accounted for 2,815 of the deaths; girls for 369 deaths. More than five times as many children and teens—17,451—suffered non-fatal gun injuries.

5. How many kids killed by motor vehicles:

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/child_passenger_safety/cps-factsheet.html

Child Passenger Safety: Fact Sheet
On this Page

Motor vehicle injuries are the leading cause of death among children in the United States.1 But many of these deaths can be prevented. Placing children in age- and size-appropriate car seats and booster seats reduces serious and fatal injuries by more than half.2


SOOOOOOOooooooooooo. I am tired of gun nuts arming for self defense. A
person who arms solely for self is stupid and dangerous.

I am tired of pro gun control nuts who use the same misconception to promote their aganda, also.

So would all the screamers please tone it down.

BTW if saving the children is the real goal, start with cars and the roads, first.

I believe in a national gun registry and a mandatory background check and two week wait. Also: disarm all men who are in the middle of a divorce, separation, fight over custody until his spouce signs off.

[2ndAmForComputers]

16. "...disarm all men who are in the middle of a divorce, separation, fight over custody..."

Surely you mean "all persons," right?

[galileoreloaded]

18. no, all men. sexist authoritarians are the best! nt

[marble falls]

20. Men kill their spouses at a much higher rate than do women. But OK.

[galileoreloaded]

23. very sexist statement. men suffer homocide at rates 3 times higher than women.

but we don't talk about that right?

[The Magistrate]

28. Killed By Other Men, Of Course, Sir, As You Certainly Know

Your poor attempt at emotional manipulation has no relevance to the point raised, which is the differential between the rates at which men kill women and at which women kill me.

[galileoreloaded]

32. elevating any gender is wrong.

people are people and deserve equal protection in all circumstances. that type of white knighting is all you.

[The Magistrate]

33. The Fact Remains, Sir: Men Kill Women Much More Often Than Women Kill Men

You can wriggle and squish about this fact as much as you like; it will do you no good. You did not reply to the point raised, you simply tried to deflect and manipulate.

Viewed as an actuary would view the thing for a life insurance company, it would be sound policy to disarm men involved in divorce and custody proceedings: the company would pay out much less frequently were that standard practice.

[galileoreloaded]

40. your dispassionate view is on its surface uplifting

yet tragic.

people exist in the real world with real consequence. your "Magistrate" schtick notwithstanding. people at the RenFair might be passionate, but rarely bright or engaged.

best of luck to you and your needs.

[The Magistrate]

41. Damn, Sir: The Things One Sees Checking In While The Late-Night Snack Spaghetti Boils....

Always nice to see someone roll over to show his belly and announce he has nothing, nothing at all....

[galileoreloaded]

44. happy to oblige, :) oh, and watch those carbs....they'll kill ya. nt

[maxsolomon]

25. at least "pro gun control nuts" can't shoot anyone to death. they're unarmed.

i'm not under any illusion that gun violence is increasing - i read the endless deflections of our gungeoneers.

yet i believe that our level of gun violence is unacceptable and vastly outnumbers the rest of the "developed" world. it would be seen, rightly, as a public health crisis in Australia, Japan, W. Europe.

gun crime has fallen, sure. but gun "accidents" like children shooting children are probably holding steady. gun suicides, probably holding steady. domestic shootings, by men of their wives and children, probably holding steady. mass shootings by armed loons, probably holding steady.

"start with cars and roads" is a red herring and it's gun-nut sophistry. cars and roads are heavily regulated and equipped with safety features. road deaths are falling, too. it's just that EVERYONE drives, so that decreasing percentage of child fatalities is still more numerous than child gun deaths.

i agree with your last 2 sentences.

[HockeyMom]

26. "pro gun control nuts" are unarmed"

Not exactly true. This one has guns in my home. If I really wanted to, I COULD get the combination to the safe, ASK how to load them, etc. Don't worry. I have no desire to do this.

[beevul]

27. Thats an incorrect assumption.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x34318#34324

[sarisataka]

34. You might want to adjust the hypothosis

at least "pro gun control nuts" can't shoot anyone to death. they're unarmed.

hypocrisy among "pro gun control nuts" is quite notorious

[Skittles]

52. thinking people who own guns are pro-gun control

it's the paranoid cowards who are against it

[GiaGiovanni]

31. The three cases are different in cause

The third case (associated with the photo) was an extremely tragic accident. In California, we have laws about the storage of guns and ammo that largely prevents such accidents. Guns must be stored where children cannot retrieve them (in safes or boxes with locks) and the ammunition must be stored separately from the gun. Guns must also have safeties. This kind of gun law actually works.

The second case was that of a criminal who led the police on a high speed chase and the poor murdered child was "collateral damage." No gun law would prevent this criminal from doing what he did. Even a total gun ban would not have stopped this guy.

The first case is in Camden NJ, which, sadly is a war zone. There are incredibly tragic stories coming out of Camden all the time, and many laws that are simply not followed. Camden needs more than gun laws to save it from the tragedies that occur there every day.

While I am sympathetic to laws controlling who has access to guns and, of course, preventing children from having access to guns, it is intellectually inconsistent to equate the three cases which you put in your OP. I understand the knee-jerk emotion that comes with horrific deaths of children, but one cannot assume that each of these cases has the same cause and same solution just because, on the surface, they seem similar. It's this kind of knee-jerk emotion that results in bad law.

[Robb]

35. Yes, you're right of course. There's nothing similar about these three cases.

They have nothing at all in common.

[Skittles]

43. can you believe these fucking people?

DISGUSTING

[GiaGiovanni]

49. That is not what my post said at all.

On the surface, the three cases are similar in that they involve guns. But when you scratch the surface, the causes are not the same, and that means that the three cases do not have the same soiution.

One of child shootings could have been well handled by applying gun control laws like we have in California, which dictate the storage of guns and ammunition and require gun safety locks--all the prevent children from having such accidents. That has to be followed up by education about the law so that all parents can take the same precautions.

But if you're discussing criminals, not even a total gun ban could stop a criminal from getting a gun. Knowing how the black market in drugs works in this country, I imagine it would be rather easy for an ill-intentioned person to get a black market weapon. They do it now.

I am not, in theory, opposed to gun control. I do not own a gun--never have--and I am not particularly happy when and if I find out that my neighbors have guns. But I also know that we can't control everything by passing a law. My suggestion is to find the things that can be controlled fairly easily and control them. This means passing laws that affect people with something to lose--good people, like parents. This also means challenging extremely foolish recent laws like "Stand Your Ground," which just seems like giving people permission to shoot if they had a bad hair day.

I know this makes me a moderate, and moderates are always hated by extremists. But I think it's far wiser to look at specific things we CAN control than to give in to emotion.

[Skittles]

42. how about the knee-jerk emotion from paranoid cowards

convinced someone is out to take their precious weapons?

[GiaGiovanni]

48. I don't own a weapon. Never did.

I live in California where we have some of the most restrictive statewide gun laws.

That being said, your knee-jerk emotional reaction is very interesting. It is as if your brain took a holiday and refused to understand what was written on the page.

My only point is that you cannot treat events that have different causes with the same solution. If you're concerned about children getting ahold of guns, you'd do well to copy California's laws.

If you're concerned about criminals getting guns, even a full gun ban won't solve that problem, in the same way that a full marijuana ban has never prevented the average high school student from getting a baggie of weed. Bans simply don't work--people always get around bans. Even a ban on abortion wouldn't work: it would just drive abortions under ground and create horribly unsafe conditions.

In the end, the most rational solution to the gun issue is to target specific things we want to prevent and CAN prevent and pass targeted laws in those areas.

[Skittles]

50. who said I am talking about you?

[newmember]

37. Report ranks Camden most dangerous U.S. city

http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20091124/NEWS01/911240338/Report-ranks-Camden-most-dangerous-U-S-city?nclick_check=1


According to the study, Camden had 2,333 violent crimes for every 100,000 residents in 2008. By comparison, the national rate is 455.

Camden had 1,770 violent crimes in 2008, according to the New Jersey State Police. The city had a population of 79,383 in 2008., according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

"You can't hide the fact that crime is evident and it's rampant," said Frank Moran, who serves as the city council liaison to the police department. "We're trying to address it the best we can with the resources we have



CAMDEN, N.J. — Two gruesome murders of children last month — a toddler decapitated, a 6-year-old stabbed in his sleep — served as reminders of this city’s reputation as the most dangerous in America. Others can be found along the blocks of row houses spray-painted “R.I.P.,” empty liquor bottles clustered on their porches in memorial to murder victims.

[ellisonz]

38. These could be defensive shootings!

Damned librul media lies! Just another case of a good kid with a gun stopping a bad kid with a gun

[Robb]

46. Plus an untold number of kids who brandished weapons and saved the day!

[Skittles]

51. the gun nuts here get more upset being trashed in a post

than they do by dead children - another trait of COWARDS

[Robb]

53. SATURDAY: 5 year-old shot in face by 8 year-old invited to celebrate reduction in gun violence.

A 5-year-old boy remains in critical condition after his 8-year-old friend accidentally shot him in the head Saturday morning, police said.

Officer Orlando Hinojosa, a Denton police spokesman, said the incident took place inside the younger boy’s home after 11:30 a.m. in the 2700 block of Stockton Street.

Police said the two boys were in a bedroom alone when the 8-year-old found a .22-caliber rifle. The boy then allegedly pointed the rifle at his younger friend and shot him in the head, according to a news release issued by the department.

Police spoke with the victim’s family and determined that at the time of the shooting, two adults — the 5-year-old’s grandparents — were at the home, along with one teenager and the two children.

Read More: http://www.dentonrc.com/local-news/local-news-headlines/20130511-child-shot-by-rifle-at-home.ece

[Robb]

54. SUNDAY: 3 year old shot, salutes reduction in gun violence with other un-maimed hand

Wilkes-Barre police are investigating what appears to be the accidental shooting of a young child Sunday evening.

City police responded at 7 p.m. to a report of a child, possibly 3 years old, shot in the hand at 54 Wayne St.

Detectives are still investigating, but the shooting is believed to be accidental, Wilkes-Barre police Lt. Marcella Lendacky said.

The child was initially taken to Geisinger Wyoming Valley Medical Center in Plains Township.

Read More: http://citizensvoice.com/news/w-b-police-investigating-child-shot-in-hand-1.1488219