Don Draper is going to have a breakdown

[madaboutharry]

or something. He was behaving totally weird in tonight's episode. The whole scene in the hotel was getting downright creepy.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I'm watching it right now.

He told her to crawl on her hands and knees. Ick. Then he makes her take her clothes off, and he leaves. He does look unhinged.

[Tx4obama]

2. He needs to feel in control of something/someone. He doesn't feel in control of his wife anymore n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. He's being really creepy about it.

And his girlfriend shouldn't be putting up with his bullshit.

[still_one]

5. Neither should his wife, but since Hamm produced the show I guess she has to

[MADem]

14. John Slattery directed this one--and it's got his vibe all over it.

Particularly the Burt Peterson scene...

I'll say no more so as not to wreck it for the West Coast, but I will say that the denouement of this episode was a long time coming, and just as well.

[still_one]

23. But Hamm produced it and that is where the money comes from, however, I was making a bad joke

[MADem]

24. Slattery has directed four, Hamm two thus far. Hamm has produced 19 shows.

There is a distinct signature to "Roger's" direction, though. I think he's good.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0804503/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

[Bluenorthwest]

37. Hamm does not provide funds, he is paid as a producer as part of his compensation deal

The title is a term of art. Note that in this last year of the Office, all of the regular cast are listed as producers. More money.

[MADem]

47. +1...cheaper than a pay raise up front; they get it on the back end with syndication and DVD rights.

The gift that keeps on giving, as it were.

[whathehell]

55. I don't think the character of his wife knows he's cheating on her yet. n/t

[still_one]

4. That is exactly what it is

[DesertFlower]

6. just finished watching. she broke it off.

said she was going back to her husband.

[MADem]

16. Her husband was giving Meghan's mom the once-over last week... nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. "You exist in this room for my pleasure."

Ick, Don. Just... ick.

Dump his skeevy ass, girl.

[Tx4obama]

9. Have you ever seen the film "Secretary"

Here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0274812/?ref_=sr_1

Draper is playing Master/Slave.
Sorta strange though to see it in Mad Men.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. No, I might have to check that out.

[jberryhill]

12. You'll need a shower after watching that one

[Myrina]

29. Hmmm ... a cold shower or a hot shower?

I loved Secretary!! It opened up issues that society gets the "icky"s from and in a gentle, touching way.
(And I'm a James Spader freak)

[jberryhill]

30. A bleach one

It struck me as a case of an employer taking advantage of an emotionally disturbed employee.

[tavalon]

63. Same here. It was nice to see BDSM handled in such a gentle way

Mainstream America really has no clue how creative people can be with their sexuality. And I'm a huge Spader fan too. Love Maggie G. as well.

[whathehell]

56. If you get off on that kind of thing, I guess.

[MADem]

15. Matthew Weiner appealing to the Fifty Shades crowd, perhaps?

My favorite lines came from Pete this week--the "My mother can go to hell..." one, on Mother's Day, no less, was hilarious.

[Tx4obama]

18. Ha! Good catch. I wonder if they planned it that way or if the air date was just a coincidence. n/t

[MADem]

20. I'll bet it was deliberate. I am very impressed with Matthew Weiner.

It's very astounding that he wasn't even born in the era when the first years of his creation were playing out! He was born in sixty five, so he was three during the present season!

His research is really good. His sets, his attention to detail, the clothing, fashions, attitudes, it all rings very true to people who lived through that era . The smoking, the drinking, the workplace shittiness, the urban decay--it's all there. He might focus on issues that still resonate today, but he doesn't overlay 21st Century solutions on mid-sixties scenarios.

About the only real weakness in the MM script writing is a tendency for the characters to say (quite frequently, in fact--in many, MANY episodes) "I don't know what to say." I've often thought it would be funny if someone would watch all of the episodes and make a video montage of all the characters saying that, because I think most of them have said it at least once, with Don Draper saying it a LOT down the years. I sometimes wondered if the script writers used that phrase as a place holder until they figured out something better TO say, and then either forgot or ran out of time!

[nolabear]

59. Made me laugh too. That weasel.

[whathehell]

51. I didn't see it because I knew what it was about and I find that scene SOOO creepy, but

yes, that is what he was doing -- It's certainly not to my taste, but she wasn't

obligated to go along with it...She could have just told him to bag it, as I would.

It was a "game", she was going along with.

[jberryhill]

8. I believe there is an entertainment forum at DU

This thread is in the wrong place.

And, whatever Don Draper may be, at least he's not Pete.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. Pete leaves a slime trail wherever he goes.

[whathehell]

52. Yeah, but since you've mentioned Pete...just have to say "I can't stand Pete"!

that little boot licking turd makes my skin crawl.

[JVS]

72. Pete's the best!

[jberryhill]

73. Yes, the thinking man's PeeWee Herman

[nolabear]

13. That man is one hot mess. And Hamm is great.

Ick is right. I don't mind games but he isn't playing. He's trying to keep from drowning. Whoof.

[sadbear]

17. So is Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny....

but I hear the Tooth Fairy is doing just fine.

[Moonwalk]

19. I'm a bit confused--anyone who has watched Mad Man up to season 6....

...can't be unaware that Don is into BDSM. In season 2 or 3 he handcuffed his mistress to the bed and left her there. And he's played these games with his 2nd wife as well (and this looooong before "50 Shades" came out, so please don't think the show is lowering itself to appealing to that readership). What he did in the hotel room was nothing new for the character. He likes playing dominance games with women, and though he prefers being on the "Master" side, he's been on the other side, having women slap him and tell him he's worthless, etc.

None of this is "new" and none of it is "ick." Why isn't it "ick"? Because that's the character! He's also got problems with alcohol, monogamy, and he's a habitual liar. On the other side he's generous, often noble, often gentlemanly, and loyal. In case you're unaware of it, this is what we in fiction writing call a "complex character" meaning with many levels (like a real person :eyes . The character gets those different levels from different events in his life that give him different hot buttons, problems, psychological and emotional issues and such. Meaning, for example, that we've seen how, when Don was a boy, the world was very much out of control for him; so when, as an adult, he feels out of control at work, say, he tends to play control games in the bedroom.

Let us also point out that his mistress could have stopped these games at any time. When she said, "It's over" he didn't try to force her to go on. So when he said at the beginning, "here is what you'll do..." and she did it, that means (are you listening and learning boys and girls?) that she LIKED it. It turned her on.

Now I know this is terribly shocking to some of you, but there are people out there that LIKE playing control games in sex, and there are some who LIKE being in control and there are those who LIKE being told what to do. And just because you find this "icky" doesn't mean it is "icky." This mistress liked it, but she couldn't, like Don, keep on pretending that they weren't married to other people. THAT is why she ended it. Not because she didn't like him controlling and, yes, humiliating her.

Life is complicated, and people are complicated. And what they do in the bedroom with each other is very complicated. Mad Man is an awesome show because it presents the complexities of life and relationships; and Don is an awesome character because he is complex--and that means he isn't always nice and good and likable--sometimes he's scary and weird. He has his secrets, he has his problems, he has his kinks. This is one of them...and anyone who's been watching the show has known about it for at least four years now. So why the sudden "ick! Shock!" Talk about being late to the party.

[MADem]

22. Well, I think you misread Sylvia. When she got that little red dress, she thought she was going

out on the town. I think she put up with Don's shit because she was enjoying their little affair, liked the fact that Don was a tougher, more decisive type than her sweet and intellectual husband, but that "Do this, do that" bullshit didn't appeal to her at all for very long. A little bit, sure, but he went over the line and she thought it sucked and that was the end of their fine romance. She didn't crawl after his shoes, she kept trying to figure out where the hell he was going with his demands, and she wasn't feeling his bullshit. That was pretty obvious. She'd had enough. She said she was "ashamed" and she was going home to Artie (who knows if he'll be there? The show opened with a huge fight as he was about to leave for Minnesota). And she didn't look back when she got out of the elevator. Talk about DONE.

Don likes to play the tough guy/manly man but he's not into that on a regular basis. He isn't just complicated, he's fucked up...and he's an asshole. Selfish as all get-out, bordering on sociopathic. He may feel a little internal conflict, but he presses on anyway. The one person who knows his real deal is wife number two, and look how he craps on her! He just likes to cheat and pretend he's a James Bond type in his boozy, starting-to-lose-his-edge head. Otherwise we'd have the maid or the kids finding the handcuffs, we'd have way more scenes of the type you suggest, and that just hasn't happened. Don thinks he's a conquistador, a lothario, a ladies' man. It's probably only a matter of time before he's regarded as that creepy old guy in the Nehru jacket at the disco, trying to pick up the 18 year old girls. For every nice and compassionate moment he has, he has two or three stone-cold selfish ones. And his boozing is gonna catch up to him. He's at "that age" where it usually does.

Will he have a bad end? A sad end? A sudden end? Or will he just fade away? That's the mystery of the final season, when it arrives. I just hope the ending is better than The Sopranos.

[jberryhill]

31. What's wrong with Nehru jackets?

Damn. I guess I better get some new clothes.

[MADem]

33. Yeah, be a little "fashion forward" and go for The White Suit!!!

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2012/aug/06/john-travolta-white-suit-v-and-a

[jberryhill]

35. Ah, you've seen my video

[MADem]

38. OMG, that was HILARIOUS.....!!!!!!!

Here's the "Advanced Class!" Way too cool for school!!! The hair, the threads, the moves...we're stylin' now! My bum knee is starting to ache just watching this here!

[Moonwalk]

42. You misread both Sylvia and Don--and simplified both to the point where....

...they are cartoons in your mind rather than characters. I think if you see them and the show that way, then it is not for you.

[MADem]

44. I disagree. I think you've over-complicated the character, and overlaid your own POV onto him.

You're seeing things you WANT to see...not what's there.

Perhaps you're the one who wants to step away from the tee vee...and maybe the computer, too, the way you're tossing the snide remarks around.

It is possible to disagree without being disagreeable, and for someone who purports to be an expert on so many things, you haven't mastered that trick yet, I see.

[Moonwalk]

46. Over complicated?

Oh, you really are watching the wrong show. Either that, or you've neither read nor heard the creator/writer talk. The man is a genius. And he often points out things that I've missed--all kinds of complications.

No. I'm sorry. You are the one reading into this what YOU want to see, not what is. You are missing half this show by over simplifying it to fit your world view. Not vice versa. I imagine you've totally missed the whole "Island" theme that's been going on for something like five episodes now.....pity. There is so much richness to this show put in by the writers, and it all goes to waste.

[nolabear]

49. Where could I see that? I'd love the backstage machinations.

[MADem]

64. There you go again, with more snark and insults. Are you incapable of conversing like a human?

Or do you think the "I'm sophisticated...and you're NOT" approach is convincing?

Hint: It's not.

You're coming across as childish and defensive. If you were so confident of your "Don the Dungeon King" thesis, you wouldn't feel the need to be so dismissive of anyone who challenges your POV, and you'd have no need to be so rude.

I have no idea how old you are, but I was alive and kicking back then. Try watching the Late, Late, Late movies, from the forties, fifties, and sixties, and watch the way that male leads "handled" their women, and what was considered a "womanly" response. Males were "dominant," women were "submissive"--except when they were "feisty," but it didn't do to be that for too long, lest they be regarded as "hags" or "nags."

They didn't call it "BDSM" back then. They called it being "manly" and "womanly." And they didn't call it "rape" back then either (see Pete Campbell for your reference, there). And the most "womanly" woman survived by pretending to be agreeable, stupid, submissive or all three in that era.

What this show illustrates is not just the man's actions, but the woman's REactions--something that no one got a good and honest look at fifty years ago. That's a good deal of what makes it a work of "genius."

You're painting 21st Century views onto a mid-20th Century character.

Maybe you might want to watch some TV from the timeframe, to get a sense of how people thought and behaved.

And, FWIW, it's kind of hard to miss the "Island" theme, since it keeps popping up in titles (The Flood), locations (Hawaii) and dialogue about Gilligan's Island....but whatever. You're the DU film school sophomore, home for the holidays to tell us all what you've learned. We're just the clueless dolts, hanging on your every word lest we be derided because you know it all...

[BainsBane]

81. Sadism and sexual power dynamics have a much longer history

The term BDSM as a catch all likely was not used, but nor was it simply manly and womanly. The Marquis de Sade wrote 120 Days of Sodom in 1785 and shared traits with other gothic literary works.

[madaboutharry]

27. There is a gracious way to add

one's opinion to a discussion. There is no need to insinuate that others are clueless.

[whathehell]

58. Thank you.

I would also add that just because something is "part of the character", doesn't mean

we can't find it "ick". I imagine few here are "clueless" on these matters, but some of us

just DO find S&M activity "ick" and that is, I believe, our prerogative.

[JoDog]

39. The BDSM angle lept out at me too,

Moonwalk. My reaction was "Don has finally gone dom". "Finally", because as you point out, there were signs along the way.

The domination game he plays is a classic one and instantly recognizable. And yes, and any point in time, Sylvia could have stopped it...and she did when she wanted to. That's another BDSM earmark: the "sub" or non-dominant is usually the one to call an end to the game.

Part of the draw for Don wasn't he was forcing her to do this stuff. Quite the opposite. She did it simply because he asked it of her, in total trust. Contrast that to what was going on in the office, the struggle to merge the firms, people second guessing him all of a sudden, relationships with clients in tailspins. While with Sylvia, it was "Do this because I ask it of you, it makes me happy and you care enough about me you want me to be happy, and you trust I won't hurt you." That's why Don was in tears when she decided to leave. That part of their relationship, which means so much to him, is over.

[whathehell]

54. You're last paragraph is interesting, because it highlights what has been explained to me about S&M

"While with Sylvia, it was "Do this because I ask it of you, it makes me happy and you care enough about me you want me to be happy, and you trust I won't hurt you." That's why Don was in tears when she decided to leave. That part of their relationship, which means so much to him, is over".

The psychological explanation I've heard for BDSM is that it's really a search for Intimacy, which I find poignant.

These people, generally speaking, are those who can't find intimacy outside of a power relationship. Whether it's

the result of early conditioning, or whatever, they never experienced anything like unconditional love,

and they don't realize, sadly, that love has nothing to do with power. As an old saying goes, "You can have power

or you can have love, but you can't have both". Not, at least, with the same person.

[bushisanidiot]

41. Don told her he wanted to stop the affair. She knew the end was coming.

My theory is that Don knew that the doctor and his wife's marriage was on the rocks and he didn't
want to contribute to a divorce happening, so Don pushed her away. He gave her the message
that "this is the only way I see you and the only way I'll ever see you. You are nothing more
to me than this." It was a loveless affair and the hotel scenes drove that point home. She left
to return to her "real" relationship with her husband and back to reality where she knows she
is loved and humanized.

[Sheldon Cooper]

43. That's exactly how I saw it, too.

He overheard their fight from the elevator, and wanted Sylvia to be clear that he (Don) would not be an option for her to turn to if she left her husband.

[BainsBane]

82. He looked really upset

When she broke it off. I don't believe he saw it coming.

[bushisanidiot]

86. I think he was acting to convince her how pathetic he really is.

.

[BainsBane]

87. I don't think so

Hamm was acting. Draper was upset, and he's not the kind of guy who shows or even seems to feel emotion, probably because he numbs himself with so much booze.

[Moonwalk]

21. If you thought Don was in control and not the mistress, you need to re-watch....

Just an addendum to my other post--there is an old axiom that the "submissive" is the one who is really in control in a Dominant/submissive relationship. True or not, that was true in this instance between Don and his mistress. SHE was the one who called him and, at her command, had him leave work to be with her. And in spite of all his commands controlling her there in the room, she was the one who decided not only when the game was over, but their affair as well. He had no control at all over either.

SHE was in control of the relationship the whole time, including going along with the game of letting him "control" her. It may have looked like Don was in control and had all the power--but he had only as much as she gave him. And when she took it away, he had none.

As I said in my other post, sexual relationships--when portrayed "realistically" in fiction, are and should be complex. And not at all what you think they are on first viewing. Look deeper. There was a lot more to this relationship's dynamics than what you saw in that hotel room.

[chimpymustgo]

36. Insightful post - who's really in control? I'm about to dive into the blogs:

Alan Sepinwall, Mo Ryan, WSJ, NYT reader comments.

[JoDog]

40. On subs and doms

If I may add my personal experience to this discussion:

Yes, despite all appearances, in BDSM relationships that actually work, the sub does have the majority of control. The game or "scene" is about illusions of or shifts in power. The sub trusts the dom with power over him/her. When the sub no longer benefits from the game, or if the dom is careless with his/her power, the sub ends the loan of power and finishes the game.

Doms who abuse this trust and violate that standard get a very bad name in the local community (which, thanks to the Internet, is now worldwide) and soon will have a hard time finding game partners.

Doms think they have all the control; subs let doms think that because it makes them happy.

[Moonwalk]

45. And I would add from what I know (which isn't as much as you do), that Don was a very good--

"Dom." He kept his sub comfortable and pampered as she'd never been pampered, made to feel special and the focus of his life even as he dominated her and impressed on her that she was to make him the focus of her life; and throughout all this, there was a lot of pleasure.

Of course, he got what he wanted as well--this was by no means a one-way street nor selfless. Don wanted the outside world to vanish and it to be the two of them isolated in that room. Now the "ick" factor comes in because there are men who do that to women abusively. And we know that Don tries to control his wives like that--because he is insecure about keeping their love, and he also a man in his 40's living in the '60's with all the prejudices of a man raised at that time. He often gets past such prejudices, but not always, and never when it involves a woman who is "his."

However, in this case, the "danger" we felt from Don, as if he was keeping a woman from her freedom and free will, wasn't real. All that went on in that hotel room was a sex game--a game of make-believe. And when the mistress said it was over, it was over, and of her free will left game, room and even her lover for her real-world husband.

The smartness of the episode was in how uncomfortable it made us 21st century viewers. It made us that way because we didn't know if it was a game, or if Don had gone dangerous--that's good; it should be ambiguous; it should make us uncomfortable, as such games, like the adultery itself, are double-edged. Not always as "harmless" as they pretend to be. However, once again, familiarity with the character should have been a clue. Anyone who has watched previous seasons knows that scary as Don can get when he shouts at women or demands or even spies and tricks...in the end, the women are in control and get what they want.

[nolabear]

50. I'd be a lousy sub. I'd have had room service, a mani-pedi, movies on the TV, long distance calls..

[whathehell]

60. +10 n/t

[JoDog]

66. Not necessarily

If that is part of the game--you being fully pampered--you would have been OK.

Note that Sylvia did order room service. Woman's gotta eat.

[JoDog]

65. Absolutely correct

In a real BDSM community, Don would get very good reviews, based only on this episode. And yes, it is a 2-way street: both players got something they wanted. Otherwise, it would not have worked at all. Don got to control Sylvia. Sylvia got to temporarily step out of her stressful, uncertain life with her unemployed doctor husband. And, of course, sexual gratification all around.

And yes, it is easy for the "harmless" game to go dark. That is why background checks are now common in BDSM. Much like how advertising uses focus groups and test markets. Notice Don did not try this with Sylvia until they had been going out a while.

[madaboutharry]

70. I don't recall mentioning anything about control in my OP.

It must be wonderful to know everything.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

25. What show????

[OneGrassRoot]

32. As much as DU hates woo, I've come to the conclusion...

that, more and more, one must be psychic to peruse GD posts.

Lots of twitter-like comments that go right over my head.

[ananda]

28. I've always thought Draper was ..

... heading toward suicide...

.. especially after seeing the scenes showing his childhood
with that abusive father.

[MADem]

34. Now that would be a "surprise ending."

Even though he is a quasi-tragic, quasi-'selfish asshole' type figure.

Of course, sometimes the most surprising endings can be the most banal. How about this for a Big Finish...he ends up alone in a nursing home, toothless, eating pudding and watching The View...! Hitting on the little old ladies in the joint, and fretting about incontinence and impotence!

I am not ready for the show to end, but I will be curious about the "wrap up." It could go any which way!

[whathehell]

61. Oh please...I don't think anyone wants that.

[Ptah]

62. Who is the falling man in the opening credits?

[BainsBane]

83. A heart attack

He's destined for one.

[bamacrat]

48. My wife said that it seemed as thought the writers must have read 50 Shades before that episode...

I love Mad Men and Don especially, but I wish he would not fuck everyone all the time. He is dynamic enough on his own without the cheating. I would love to see more scenes from becoming Don Draper. Like flashbacks to his early days at Sterling Cooper.

[alphafemale]

53. going to?

Haven't seen an episode since mid season two.

Repetitive.

His entire life is a breakdown.

He is so going out a window.

[whathehell]

57. I hope he does, because then he'll have to see a shrink and we, the audience,

may finally get to know what makes him tick.

Enquiring minds want to know.

[Warren DeMontague]

67. Sorry, I'm still processing Theon having his **** removed.

Mad Men will just have to wait.

[nolabear]

68. Lord knows. Sunday nights left me wrung completely out.

I LOVE it.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. It's my Must-See TV Night.

[SomethingFishy]

79. They didn't actually show whether or not Theon's "little theon" was removed...

Maybe they were just messing with him... although limbs do seem to get removed weekly. I really am hating that I actually feel bad for him. He is such an asshole... My hope is that Danery's wins the throne. She is such a badass...

Kind of the same thing with Don Draper, he really is kind of an asshole, but I like him in spite of myself. Maybe it's the fact that the people around him are even worse...

I'm only on season 3 of Mad Men though and this is all spoilers for me

[BainsBane]

85. It's gone

They aren't going to show castration in vivid detail.

[Merlot]

71. Hey there, some of us watch it on DVD or Netflix so NO SPOILERS in Topic Heads

Spoil all you you want in the post itself, but a topic head is there for all to see.

[MADem]

74. The OP was just a generic guess--there's no actual plot spoiling there.

You could say that about pretty much every season--he's a convoluted fellah; when he's not getting plastered, he's screwing around and sabotaging his own self-interests--he's certainly not boring.

[cherokeeprogressive]

75. I got a kick out of the way he teared up and begged when she broke it off...

The only thing missing was the pouty lower lip with a bit of tremble.

[tabasco]

76. GD's not for reviewing TV shows

Take it to the lounge or somewhere.

I look to GD for political discussion, not for comments on some stupid TV show.

[itsrobert]

77. Agreed

Last edited Tue May 14, 2013, 12:34 AM - Edit history (1)

Some people want attention, I guess. Maybe they were chained up as a child?

[whathehell]

78. Please -- If it were something you were interested in, I doubt you'd give a shit.

Maybe you were chained up as a child.

[LanternWaste]

88. I thought those events usually resulted in snarky responses to an OP....

"Some people want attention, I guess. Maybe they were chained up as a child?"

I thought those events usually resulted in an abnormal desire to respond snarkily to benign OPs.... oh, wait. I see.

[MADem]

80. GD isn't just for political discussion.

It is for "issues" too. Now, the "issue" of a man under overwhelming stress on a TV show, causing him to behave in an aberrant fashion, is an interesting one to discuss, however, the "No Show Biz" caveat might well apply.

The question is, is this latest plot twist "really big news" sufficient to justify a break in the SOP?

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.

Frankly, if we're going to "enjoy" gun threads and religion threads in GD (and we've seen WAY too many of those lately, going on and on and on), notwithstanding the SOP proscribing them, why not have a little MAD MEN?

At any rate, people are having fun and it's not doing any harm. It'll peter out eventually.

And there's always HIDE THREAD....

[Quixote1818]

84. Who the hell is Don Draper?

[NCarolinawoman]

89. Never heard of him either.

I thought this thread was about an over-the-top Repub. on Faux News.