Watching MSNBC...how does one not know how to swim?

[Atman]

It is primal. It is survival. You don't have to be an Olympian, you can thrash and splash, but how does one not know how to "swim?" I guess I'm ignorant. We taught my little sister to swim at 6 months old by throwing her into the pool (in a certified class, don't worry). Humans, like dogs and cats, instinctively know how to swim, for pure survival. We don't all have to do the back stroke or the Australian crawl. But we can swim. What is this bullshit about black people not knowing how to swim?

[GeorgeGist]

1. I've known several people including my mother who didn't know how to swim.

You might feel more comfortable at a website for narrow minded people.

[Atman]

4. You might feel more comfortable at a website for narrow minded people.

Jesus Christ, I watched a tv "news" segment and I asked a question. That makes me "narrow minded?" I bow to your superiority. Your mother's swimming ability has nothing to do with it.

[GoCubsGo]

21. Me, too, including every black person I know.

My dad can't swim, either. Nor, could his parents and siblings. I don't know where this bullshit about humans having some sort of "swimming instinct" comes from, either. I know how to swim, but that's because I had swimming lessons when I was young. When I swim laps for exercise, I frequently see people, trying to teach themselves to swim. Some of them can barely tread water. Many of those are African-American, who, like dad, never had access to a pool or swimming lessons when there were younger. That's especially the case down here in the former Jim Crow South. If people had an "instinct" to swim, we would not be hearing stories of toddlers falling into pools and drowning every other day.

[leftynyc]

48. My dad couldn't swim

Never learned how and he was a old white Jewish dude.

[GoCubsGo]

79. Mine's an old, white Catholic guy.

He's in his late 70s, and at this point his version of "swimming" is something very remotely akin to dog-paddling. Not something I can explain. He generally doesn't go into deeper water without something that floats, like a pool noodle.

[leftynyc]

83. Dad passed last year at 75 (may he rest in peace)

The closest I ever saw him to swimming was standing in the shallow end of my sister's pool. We always attributed it to his growing up very poor and not having an opportunity to learn.

[GoCubsGo]

97. Mine grew up in the city.

There was no public pool in his neighborhood, and his school did not have one. He has one of his own now, but he never learned to actually swim in it. It's mostly an escape from the desert heat. He just kind of floats around.

I'm sorry your dad is gone. I don't get to see mine, and that's bad enough.

[leftynyc]

108. Dad grew up in Brooklyn

I'm not sure if they had public pools when he was a kid. On a personal note - try and see your dad as often as you can and tell him how much you love him...every single day if possible. There is never enough time.

[Jazzgirl]

70. My younger brother was a lifeguard.

We are black but he could always do the stuff I couldn't do like.....swim. He was great at swimming, tennis and golf.

[smokey nj]

122. My husband doesn't know how to swim.

[Enrique]

2. i learned in a pool

my mother doesn't know how to swim. I've been to the village she grew up in in Puerto Rico, no pools there. I've been to the neighborhood she moved to when she came to NYC, no pools there.

[NYC_SKP]

3. I have known adults who seemed absolutely incapable of swimming or even floating.

One young man, very lean, just sunk like a rock.

[Atman]

13. Maybe it's Darwinian.

For instance, cats tend to hate water...but if they fall into a pool, they can "dog paddle" their way out. Likewise for babies. The way you "teach" babies to swim is to simply throw them in the water. Instinct takes over. They know instinctively not to breathe. They thrash and do what they can to survive. Visit a "Tadpole" swimming class...this is how people learn to swim. It is an innate ability. As I said in my OP, I'm not saying everyone should be able to do the fifty meter freestroke, but swimming is a survival mode. There has been water as long as humans...when you fall in, you thrash and splash at the very least. Who just says "I can't swim!" and sinks to the bottom?

[NYC_SKP]

23. Yes, infants swim instinctively. This dude was no baby...

Probably should have gotten started 26 years sooner!

[Kolesar]

40. That's stupid.

I couldn't float, so the instructors could not teach me to swim.
It is not "innate ability".

[La Lioness Priyanka]

57. your darwininian comment is just scientific racism. nt

[Atman]

63. No, it is not.

Your righteous outrage is just the same sort of racism of which you accuse me.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

66. no, it's not. you yourself started this convo about race/ability to swim

then claimed that not knowing it is Darwinian

which has nothing to do with my comment.

[Atman]

92. I COMMENTED ON A NEWS SEGMENT!

Don't conflate my statement into something it was not!

Step back...take a breath...

[aquart]

106. Lotta news segments. You chose...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

112. you picked this news section to declare that swimming was an innate ability

when indeed it is not, and those people who cant swim are not doomed by nature.

i suggest you step back and really ponder why i said your comment was scientific racism. as such when you say a greater percent of a race cant do something that is evolutionarily mandated, it is by definition scientific racism

[Atman]

115. I suggest you step back far enough to fall off your high horse.

I didn't "pick this news section" to do anything. I commented on a story that was broadcast on a national cable news network.

"Scientific racism?" Message board bullshit. Step back, indeed.

[darkangel218]

62. Im skinny , so i go straight down. Head first.

My legs seem to float a lil bit since they have some fat cells on them.

I too sink like a rock and I'm hopeless

[hunter]

131. I sink. I can lie still on the bottom of the pool with enough air in my lungs to stay awhile.

Great party trick!

But I can swim too.

I mostly learned to swim in the ocean where staying on the surface is easier.

[darkangel218]

76. In the pool i use kids floaties just to keep my head above the water.

I took swimming lessons at FIU, to no avail

[NYC_SKP]

96. You're just a sinker!

I can't remember this cat's name, he was stationed at Castle AFB and we were both staying at the same motel in Merced long term that had a pool.

I just couldn't believe that we could not get him to swim, not even to float, and watching him try to just tread water and not sink was both hilarious and frightening!

[darkangel218]

120. Yep, thats me. My pic should be attached in the dictionary to the word sinker. I go straight down.

[CBGLuthier]

5. I don't know, what is this bullshit about black people not being able to swim?

I don't have cable and would not watch that channel if I did so I do not have a clue wtf you are talking about. Is that the topic of the day?

[Cirque du So-What]

6. It's not bullshit

If you consider the BBC more trustworthy than MSNBC, here's an article exploring some of the reasons why African Americans never learned to swim:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11172054

Despite your assertion, swimming is not something that 'pops out' whenever survival requires it. One moment of panic can set in motion a series of events that leads to drowning.

[Atman]

22. That is an excellent article. Thank you for posting.

Ironically (?), I was found at the bottom of a swimming pool when I was a toddler. I had wandered off and fell in the pool. I thrashed and splashed, but still sunk to the bottom. Fortunately, I was found before it was too late. I grew up to love the water. I surf, I sail, I've scuba dived...

I admit, my perspective might be skewed.

[Cirque du So-What]

37. I served 20 years in the US Navy, active & reserve

and I was never what you would call a 'strong swimmer.' I performed just adequately enough to get through boot camp and pass the rapid-ascent test for qualification on submarines. In boot camp, non-swimmers were assigned to a special company that practiced swimming every day until they passed or proved themselves unable to swim at all. I'd see this non-swimming company at the pool occasionally, and it was comprised of ~90% African Americans. I'm sure that a good number of them went on to qualify, but it reinforces the notion that swimming does not come naturally to many people - especially those without previous experience, even limited experience.

[DocMac]

135. I was in the Marine Corp and

I saw the same thing. We were told black people had negative buoyancy. But this doesn't seem to hold water.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_negative_buoyancy


Negative buoyancy is when the gravitational pull on a diver is greater than the buoyant force. This means that the diver is being pulled downward, and that the buoyant force is doing negative work (work that is in the opposite direction of the displacement). Positive buoyancy is the opposite situation in which the buoyant force of the diver is greater than the gravitational pull, which makes the diver move upwards.
Usually, a person's weight is slightly more than the weight of the displaced amount of water. For example, a person who weighs 80kg displaces 79dm2 of water, which weighs 79kg, that is, he has about 1kg of negative buoyancy.
As for your question whether this negative buoancy is a unique feature for black people, the answer is no. it is related to the person's density.


BTW, it's easier to float in salt water.

[CatWoman]

7. confession time: I was born in Portsmouth, VA

on the peninsula. And I don't know how to swim

p.s. -- and I'm black

[Wait Wut]

15. My DIL is Okinawan.

Born, raised, thrived on a little bunch of islands in the middle of the ocean.

She can't swim.

[maxsolomon]

8. Lack of opportunity leading to fear.

Everyone CAN swim, but not everyone is shown how to, or why.

The "bullshit" is urban legend, I've even heard black people say it. Again, it relates to my reply title. A good reason to have public pools.

[dems_rightnow]

9. It's not bullshit

http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1796&Alias=rainbow&Lang=en

For whatever reason, it seems that 70% of African-American children cannot swim. Cultural, societal, whatever. It seems to be the case.

[Atman]

60. I grew up surfing. It was not lost on any of us that there were no black surfers.

I'm serious. There may be a few now...but when I was surfing as a teenager, there were no black surfers.

Why? Was it because we lived on the coast of Florida, in a largely white community? Were there other socio-economic issues? It doesn't necessarily seem to be that way. There are simply no (or very few) black surfers. I'm just sayin'. This is an observation worth discussing. Don't trash me for making the observation.

[Walk away]

10. Take it from a one time Life Guard....

there are plenty of people who can't swim. There are also plenty of people who can swim... that drown.

[Blue_Tires]

77. +1000

Been swimming since I was 5, and have had a few careless moments that could've killed me easily...

[Atman]

103. I have several incidences surfing where I was ready to take my last breath.

Held underwater, under a big wave I missed, dragged across the bottom, just wondering how much longer I could hold my breath...thinking, maybe if I just inhale and hope I get washed ashore before I was dead. Water is funny that way.

[Deuce]

110. I agree...

[Wait Wut]

11. I 'know' how to swim...

...but, can't. My son, on the other hand, was a swimming instructor at 13.

While a part of it may be instinctual, fear of water, inability to float, unfamiliarity...can prevent one from swimming.

[d_r]

12. my mother has never learned how to swim

i've been a lifeguard and taught swimming lessons but cant get her near the water.

[ohheckyeah]

14. I saw a special on one of the news shows...

Primetime or something like that, about a young black man that has started programs to teach black children how to swim. According to him, fear of the water is a cultural thing that has been passed down.

[Skidmore]

16. I don't.

And I nearly drowned in a swimming class when I was a kid. None of the adults appeared to notice I was in trouble. I don't go into water above my thighs. I try to stay out of large bodies of water as much as possible. I don't know about the racist sounding remark you are referring to but I do know that I must be missing that primal instinct you refer to.

[Atman]

24. There was NO "racist" sounding remark.

I was commenting on a story about black people not knowing how to swim. How would you like me to phrase it so as not to offend you?

[Skidmore]

29. Not accusing you of making a racist remark only stating that I did not know what you were referring

to.

[Tx4obama]

52. Me too. I can't swim. Almost drowned at swimming class when I was a kid. n/t

[sharp_stick]

17. Basically, people that don't know how to swim

panic and drown. If you relax, you can and will float but that's it.

If you don't know how to swim and you're floating as soon as you try to move you'll go down again because you panic when you lose the buoyancy.

[enlightenment]

127. Or sink.

I sink, no matter how still I am. Some people are not naturally buoyant. I recall as a young child jumping into the pool and letting myself sink until I was sitting - sitting - on the bottom. Freaked people out.

Even now, much older and heavier, I still don't float - and I can't "swim" on top of the water. I can swim under the water, but that kind of defeats the purpose of not drowning after awhile.

[MineralMan]

18. One reason for many black people not learning to swim

is that most of the schools they attended as children, historically, have no swimming pool. Swimming must be taught to humans. If it is not taught, they do not learn to swim.

[Cirque du So-What]

20. A couple of generations ago

black people weren't even allowed in public swimming pools across a wide swath of the United States.

[MineralMan]

25. That, too.

Learning to swim is something of a traditional thing. I remember my parents insisting that I learn to swim at age six. They learned to swim when they were children, too. If you don't have that as a tradition, your children may not learn.

[treestar]

59. Or the neighborhood not having one, or no Y or the like for lessons

Our schools had no pools, but in summer we belonged to a swim club, and there were lessons there.

That's what inner city kids might not get.

[MineralMan]

67. Depending on the city, that's true.

There may well not be a pool near enough for many kids.

[GoCubsGo]

93. That's true of a lot of white folks, too.

My school didn't have a pool. My high school didn't get one until decades after I graduated. However, the local Park District had pools, and that's where I got my lessons. But, my parents had to pay for them, as well as for the pool passes. We have one public pool, which they are threatening to close for budgetary reasons. The rest all belong to private clubs with huge membership fees. Forty years ago, the black folks were not welcome in the private clubs, and many of them can't afford them today. A significant number of them can't afford the YMCA membership, either.

[MineralMan]

94. All true. Just another of the many obstacles put in the way of

poor people, disadvantaged people, and people of color.

[NewJeffCT]

19. Not everybody has the opportunity to learn

to swim. Could be for a lot of reasons - lack of money for swim lessons, lack of access to clean water for swimming, etc.

[HiPointDem]

26. that's why kids drown in pools, because of their natural swimming instinct.

[MineralMan]

27. Well, I'm betting you took swimming lessons as a child.

Either from your parents or at a school or public pool.

[Atman]

35. No, I never took swimming lessons, but I grew up on the beach in Florida.

My grandparents had one of the first "cement ponds" in Massachusetts. Yes, I grew up around water. I lived on the water, we had a boat, water never scared me. But that wasn't my point. Please don't be one of the people who ascribe a "racist" angle to this. I didn't put the story on MSNBC about blacks not knowing how to swim. I had nothing to do with it. I'm just commenting on it. I took my baby sister to swim classes, and they literally just threw the babies into the water. We were just there to catch them if they didn't re-surface. I never saw a baby who didn't thrash and splash.

But then, look upthread...as I stated before, I never had lessons, and I was found face-down at the bottom of the grandparent's swimming pool when I was three years old. I have no bias here...I was just bringing up an interesting point that was on the afternoon news.

[Nay]

113. I grew up on a FL beach, too, and don't even remember learning to swim--my bro and I

were out in the water with Dad from a very early age. Mom, on the other hand, never learned to swim a lick, but she was the one who took us to the beach and watched over us. Hmmmm.

As an adult, I wondered to myself, what the hell would Mom have done if one of us started drowning? She would jump in, of course, and probably drown, too, even before we did.

I also went swimming once by myself (strictly forbidden). I was sitting in an inner tube; a wave flipped me upside down and I was held there for quite a while, as my butt was stuck way down in the tube. Another wave shoved me ashore and I got to breathe once again. A close call. No, never did tell the parents. But I was smart enough to never do THAT again.

[d_b]

28. whitey here

can't swim

[Are_grits_groceries]

30. I can't swim.

I almost drowned when I was little. I have tried but I freeze up every time.
There is not some natural reflex action that kicks in to save you.

[Skittles]

89. just like there are dentists for people terrified of dentists

you can find a swim instructor who specializes in folk who really fear water.....please do try to learn; it CAN be done, Grits and I feel it is important you learn at least enough to keep your head above water and move a bit

[Marr]

31. I didn't know how to swim when I got Scuba certified, lol.

I figured hey, what the hell-- I'll be bringing air with me anyway, right? I ate through my air faster than everyone else because I was so inefficient at moving through the water and had to have a bit of panic going on somewhere in my brain, but still.

STILL didn't know how to swim two years later when I signed up to do my first triathlon. Had five months to learn to swim a mile, lol. I did truly pathetic on that first leg, but I made it.

[msongs]

32. babies cannot "swim"...they thrash around then drown if nobody is there to help them

spent 20 years in the swimming racket and not once did I see any baby actually swim. all those mommy and me classes were just for play. If mommy got out and left baby, baby was DOA.

Innate ability to swim means swimming sufficient to survive if there is an escape outlet. Cats swim enough to find a survival solution if one is available.

seems like all quadrupeds have an innate swimming to survive ability.

[Puzzledtraveller]

47. I know it's serious but this got a chuckle out of me

If mommy got out and left baby, baby was DOA.

[sinkingfeeling]

33. Really, I didn't learn to swim (and still do it badly) until I was over 40!

We didn't have any where to swim in the middle of Ohio. Most urban people don't have a ton of opportunities to swim. It wasn't until I built a swimming pool at the house in Arizona, that I learned to float and then to get the length of the pool. I'm positive I would drown in an emergency situation.

[virgogal]

56. I could have written your words. My kids

were like fish so I learned in my 40s but have to be in a lane where I can grab the side.

I'm very nervous in the ocean,very nervous,even in fairly shallow water.

[WoodyD]

34. I can't swim either

I never had the chance to take lessons. My tiny home town had no pool, my parents had no money, and wouldn't have thought it worth spending money on anyway. My husband has tried to teach me a few times, but I guess it's harder now that I'm kind of scared of the water. Because I can't swim.

[Skittles]

86. WoodyD

make it a goal to learn - research and you can find places that specialize in folk who are scared of the water......you don't need to be Olympics-worthy - what you need is to know how to dog paddle and move in the water - just learning the basics will take away your fear (the fear is based mainly on you not knowing how to swim). MAKE IT A GOAL! Please, it is very important.

[Puzzledtraveller]

36. I'm a Pisces and can't swim

Love water, just can't seem to stay ontop of it.

[napoleon_in_rags]

41. Lol! I recommend donuts.

Whenever I've been slim and fit, it takes a lot of effort to stay above the water. When I'm overweight, I pretty much just float.

[Puzzledtraveller]

46. My legs are heavy

They are like linebackers legs without even having to do much to make them that way and my top half is not nearly as developed so I just sort of list like a sinking ship. Ski vests are awesome because I can just bob in the water.

[Skittles]

90. KEEP trying to learn!

with a professional, of course!

[nolabear]

38. I love, love, LOVE the water. And I can't swim a lick. My daddy threw me in

so that "instinct" could kick in. It didn't. I've been afraid of drowning ever since. Love boats, love the beach, won't go in over my waist. Hang at the side of the pool. It's a sad mystery to me.

Plus, I've got enough boy issues to keep me away from bathing suits if at all possible. Double tragedy.

[NCTraveler]

39. People do not know instinctively how to swim.

Some people can be thrown into a pool and be able to keep their head above water. Most, not knowing how to swim, will panic. This will make everything worse. People have fallen in the water and drown since the beginning of time. That goes against your understanding of it being instinctive.

[anneboleyn]

114. Yes, people drown all the time (including children) because they were never taught how to swim.

I grew up in California, and my parents had me in swimming lessons when I was three -- for that reason -- children tragically drown far too often. As far as I have always known, human beings are well-known for the lack of an instinctive swimming ability.

There are also practical issues. It is one thing to swim in a pool; it is another thing entirely to swim in a lake or especially the ocean.

[Myrina]

42. I can't swim or ride a bike.

Raised by much older parents & no sibs to teach me the stuff "everyone" knows ...

[HangOnKids]

123. How Old Were Your Parents?

I'm an older parent too.

[Myrina]

129. I was a menopause oops.

My mom was 51, dad 49 when I was born. By the time bike/swim/sport stuff came around, they had already raised 6 kids & just wanted to go to the cabin on weekends to play cards & drink with their other old friends. (It was the 1970's, being in your mid/late 50's was different then I think).

[HangOnKids]

134. I was 42 when my 4th was born

She will be 12 tomorrow, and I don't do nearly the activities with her I did with my other 3. But I have taught her to swim, ride a bike, and ski. I am single though, and I think it would be much different if I had a partner/spouse. I devote all my time to her, but damn do I need a shitload of naps.

[BainsBane]

43. I can't remember not being able to swim

and feel very comfortable in water, but not everyone is that way. I suppose it depends where you grow up. In MN, there are so many lakes, I think everyone swims. I will say I'm not comfortable swimming for much distance in the ocean because of the tides and undercurrents.

[TrogL]

44. Some people don't float

It took me forever to learn how to swim because my body fat was so low I couldn't stay far enough above the surface to breathe without thrashing myself to death, which required extra breath and round and round it went. I used flippers until I bulked up enough to actually have some perceivable amount of body fat.

[LeftInTX]

45. I was 10

Despite my father "Throwing me in the pool" numerous times and being in swimming lessons since I was 3, I couldn't do it. I had no idea how to float.

I think if you hyperextend your neck (hold head up and back) which is almost a reflexive reaction you will get water in your airway. Panic makes the problem worse.

Sorry, I had to learn. It was very challenging for me!

[LeftInTX]

49. Tim Duncan - NBA player - is an excellent swimmer and he's black

He grew up in the Virgin Islands and was training for the Olympics. Then a hurricane came along and destroyed the pool along with his training programming. So he switched to basketball.

[Blue_Tires]

72. I was about to make the point

Some of the BEST swimmers I've ever seen were from Trinidad...It's something most Afro-Caribbeans do regularly...

[eShirl]

50. I taught my ex how to swim in his 20s; childhood swim lessons was told he'd never learn

He was under the impression that floating was a prerequisite for swimming, and he was a sinker. First I taught him how not to drown ("DROWNPROOFING&quot , that was about 99% of it. The rest is just using arms and/or legs to propel you in the direction you wish to go.

[Buns_of_Fire]

51. I lived in Ft. Lauderdale for about 20 years

and I was one of the dozen or so people in all of south Florida who couldn't swim. Still can't. Little kids would see me on the street and throw oranges and coconuts at me and shout things that hurt my feelings and that's why I now live at roughly 2,000 feet ASL.

Now, I just smile and think to myself as the sea levels rise, "Fine. How long can you tread water?" (apologies to Bill Cosby and an old routine about God and Noah).

[OriginalGeek]

85. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

What's an ark?




been one of my favorite bits for as long as I can remember. That's also how long I've been able to swim.

[Atman]

53. Wow. Hey, my friends, I didn't think this would be so crazy!

Here, to lighten things up...the best Monkees song (and one of the best songs by anyone, imho), Goin' Down.

It's relevant. You might have to Google the lyrics.

[Buns_of_Fire]

61. They give you three, I've been down nine, and I'm goin' down just one more time...

Love that song! Anybody who can scat-sing like that without strangling themselves with their own tongue has my undying respect!

[Libertas1776]

54. I thought I figured it out...

swam around the pool, well doggy paddled around the pool. I was so proud. In retrospect, however, I think I pulled it off only because an air pocket formed in the back of my bathing shorts, essentially making a floatation device on my ass. Haven't been in a body of water for ages so I don't plan on proving or disproving my hypothesis any time soon.

[Yo_Mama]

55. If you don't have access to a safe body of water you'll never learn how to swim.

Period.

For those who don't live near a shore or a lake, access to a swimming pool may not have existed. LOTS of people don't know how to swim.

[treestar]

58. Maybe the instinct is replaced by fear

when a person has a consciousness that they don't know "how."

Everyone should be taught.

[CakeGrrl]

64. I'm AA, my dad can't swim, I mostly taught myself.

I float like a cork (which I attribute in part to a higher body fat percentage than some, though friends disagree) and I do a one-hour water workout in a 13' tank, no flotation belt. Some of it is hands out of the water, relying on your legs for propulsion.

You do have to overcome a panic instinct if you for some reason go head down in the water and take any in, especially if you fall or are dumped in.

[Buns_of_Fire]

91. I've been told that "panic instinct" is the real thing to be overcome.

When you open your mouth to take in a gulp of air and wind up with something else.

People who can swim just shrug it off and spit it out.

I never could.

And perhaps having a swimming teacher push me into the deep end of a swimming pool without my magic football strapped to my back had something to do with it, too. I got out without any help, but I used words that my mother was shocked that any 11-year-old would know.

[CakeGrrl]

100. Yes, the panic of taking in water is the big issue - at least for me.

And the panic reaction starts, especially without someone to help calm you, it just compounds itself - the flailing, losing even more control, and so on.

I don't blame you for your aversion based on the way someone tried to "teach" you. You would think they'd be far more sensitive to knowing the effects of panic.

I still get an inadvertent mouthful of water, but as you said, I can control my response to it, much like getting some food stuck in my throat.

It's about first realizing that you have a way to solve the problem rather than reacting to your breathing being suddenly impeded.

[GoCubsGo]

104. Some people have other issues, too.

A young woman I worked with a few summers ago was from rural the South. She didn't know how to swim, due to lack of pools. One of her problems as an adult in learning to swim was that she just didn't feel comfortable with the fact that her feet didn't touch the ground in deep water. We sometimes had to access our field sites via the river, and got there by boat. At the end of the day, the person who drove the boat would sometimes stop at a sand bar so we could take a dip in the river. She only felt relatively comfortable in the water if she kept on her flotation vest, and she wouldn't go in very deep. Even though she knew she was okay with the vest on, she just couldn't get past the footing thing. No "panic" situation there, but if she hadn't been wearing the vest, it very well could have turned into one.

[Control-Z]

65. My son's best friend drowned

in one of the local (man made) lakes when he was 16. He was black. And my son told me how frightened he had been of the water because he couldn't swim.

It seems so strange that I never knew. We lived next door to each other. The boys had been friends since age 3. When they started going to the pool together, though, they were older, so I never knew he didn't actually go into the pool with the other boys. I guess he just hung out on a lawn chair.

He was high on acid when he dove into that lake. He came back up to the surface once. Divers found his body hours later.

His death really shook our community - and it devastated my children, especially my son. The boys had had a falling out because of the drugs just a few months earlier. But it was a temporary thing. They always worked things out. They would have been back to being best buds...

[Jazzgirl]

68. It may have been instictual for you but I can't swim for anything.

I can "slightly" dog paddle but I'm not purposely jumping in any water deeper than I can stand it.

[Atman]

88. I live on a lake...

So, first of all, I have to admit my bias.

One of my favorite things to do is to swim out on a moonlit night. I swim to the bottom, about 10-12 feet, curl up into a ball, and blow all the air out of my lungs...then just float to the top. It is an amazing experience. So yeah, I understand...not everyone is a water baby. I just thought swimming was part of the survival instinct. Many of you have proved me wrong. Peace, my friends! Goin' Down.

[LanternWaste]

69. Seems as though the responses in the thread somewhat invalidate your premise

I'd imagine many people cannot swim as they'd never been taught.

Seems as though the responses in the thread somewhat invalidate your premise that it is in fact, "primal" survival" and/or "instinctual", and we may be forced to conclude that it is indeed, a non-instinctual and learned behavior.

Possibly what you perceive as instinctual is not swimming, but rather a convulsive agitation as the arms thrash downwards into the water in an attempt to prevent submersion-- which, lacking the ability to maneuver, submerge, re-emerge and establishing breathing patterns (i.e. swimming), may look like swimming, but is not.

[Atman]

80. I rarely agree with you on anything...

But here I agree you may have a valid point.

[indie9197]

71. There is a relex that babies have

Where you can put them in the water and they will appear to try to swim. They won't suck in water and they will keep their eyes open. Some parents exploit this for photo ops. I never tried it with my two girls.

[wercal]

73. Unlike dogs, people have the capacity to think...and panic

When they hit the water.

I worked at a boy scout camp for a few summers. On day one, the scouts would take a swim test, and were classified as 'non-swimmer', 'beginner', and 'swimmer'.

For starters, the mere existence of the 'non-swimmer' category implies that some people in fact cannot swim. And, there was a noticeable pattern that the African American kids were more likely to be non-swimmers.I might get flammed here for pointing that out...but that was my observation. I talked to one of the troop leaders about this. He listed a few reasons. For starters, alot of A-Americans use hair care products that they don't like to wash out in the water. This was corroborated by the prevalence of shower caps that I saw whenever his troop hit the shower....and if you wer to go looking for a shower cap in the store today, you will likely find it in the 'ethnic haircare' aisle. The rest is sort of cultural...born out of the tendancy for A-Americans to live in dense urban areas. There are no 'swimming holes' downtown. Of course there are YMCA, public pools, etc...but the access is still somewhat limited downtown - especially to a young kid who doesn't have transporatation, entry fee, etc.

So, alot never learned. We did teach them the best we could, during their week at camp. Most only made it to 'beginner', but that at least means they know enough to keep from drowning.

[Tanuki]

74. Atman, young babies are a special case because they do have a bradycardic reflex,

one of many that disappear with maturation. (You've no doubt noticed that an infant will close its fingers around your finger if you place it on their palm, but older kids and adults don't. That is another primitive reflex). It was found that babies will automatically "hold their breath" when immersed, and infant swimming classes became popular for introducing them to water. This does not mean that older children or adults are instinctive swimmers! It isn't a case of "so easy, even a baby can do it!" AND PLEASE DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME, FOLKS!!!

http://www.babycenter.com/404_is-it-true-that-babies-are-born-with-the-ability-to-swim-and_10313062.bc

[Atman]

78. Thank you. Understood.

[Blue_Tires]

75. I'd think most people in theory could instinctively dog-paddle

But it's a simple fact of human nature that if you can't/don't swim, and are suddenly thrown into a body of water, you're going to panic, splash about, quickly tire out and sink...

[Skittles]

81. I am absolutely appalled when someone tells me they cannot swim

I make it my mission to ensure they learn!!! You don't have to be an Olympian - simply knowing how to dog paddle and move a bit is excellent

[Baitball Blogger]

82. I didn't know how to swim.

I was a skinny rail of a kid that kept sinking to the bottom of the pool. Now I could probably crawl across on my belly.

LOL!

[KatyaR]

84. I'm white, 55, and I can't swim.

As a kid, swim lessons were 25 miles away in the middle of wheat harvest--it wasn't possible to go. Plus I'm sure my mother had a phobia about water and bathing suits, she had issues with everything.

Never had the opportunity to go swimming more than once or twice as a child or an adult, probably been on a boat maybe a dozen times in my life. I've considered taking lessons, but I can't afford it and don't really have a body I want to put in a bathing suit. I have a friend with a pool who's offered to teach me, but I've never taken her up on it. I did go dragon boating last year and loved it, but I can't afford to do that, either.

So no, I never learned. I probably should have, but it's a little late in the game for me. It's too bad, I like the water, but I don't have the lifestyle where I'm on the water.

[kimsterdemster]

87. ymca

my day care, at least people should be able to tread, i think it is fear and panic

[onpatrol98]

95. I'm black and I can't swim...

The only pool in the city I grew up in, was then and is now White ONLY. Also known as membership only...at that time. My sons all swim. We've accused one of being part fish. But, I also left my hometown and married a man who was also a lifeguard. He taught our kids to swim young. There was no local beach. No families nearby owned a pool. But in my current location, there are pools galore. Access makes a big difference.

I was torn as to whether to share my experience or simply berate your post...decisions, decisions...

[Atman]

98. Thank you for sharing your experience.

I don't know why you'd feel the need to berate my post. I shared my experience, too.

[SheilaT]

99. Babies and very young children cannot swim properly,

because for the first couple of years or so their heads are too heavy too hold up above the water as they paddle. What they CAN be taught is a survival back float. I enrolled my oldest son in such a program when he was about nine months old and did very well in it.

It's my opinion, and only an opinion, that swimming is NOT instinctual for most humans. Some will readily figure out a dog-paddle if need be, but most need some sort of instruction or at least the opportunity to observe other swimmers.

Recreational swimming is relatively new, and came about (at least in this country and probably in Europe as well) in the beginning of the 20th century. Up until at least that time most sailors couldn't swim. And they spent their lives on the ocean.

Ability to float is predicated on something or another connected to your body mass. Obese people often float well because of all that lovely fat. Slender people, or those with lots of muscle mass, usually don't float as well, or will float quite nicely several inches under the surface of the water, which isn't so good.

And tossing a baby or young child into water to "sink or swim" is child abuse, possibly homicide, if the adult just watches the kid sink. As a child in the 50's I knew some parents who did that. Those kids never liked being in the water, that I recall quite clearly.

[Atman]

107. Well, you're wrong on one count...

The "Tadpoles" program which taught my sister to swim was not child abuse. The parent or guardian is in the pool with the baby. The infant is tossed into the water toward the parent. They kick and thrash and mommy/daddy picks them up out of the water. They just lived the last nine months of their lives upside down, in fluid! How is it "abuse" to teach them to swim? No adult just watches the child sink. Do you think we're stupid? If the child is in distress, you rescue the child. No on is standing there letting the baby sink to the bottom and saying "Oh well. We tried."

I have vested interest here. I grew up on the water. My son and DIL just blessed us with a granddaughter...and their new house has an inground swimming pool. I'm going to be damned sure that little girl knows how to swim!

[SheilaT]

111. Notice they moms and dads rescued the kids.

And notice I said that babies and very young children can be taught a survival back float, which is what the program you're describing is the beginning of.

added on edit:

It's the parents who do actually toss their kids in to sink or swim that I was referring to

[CanonRay]

101. I grew up in the city

and never went near the water until I was 16. By the time I "learned", I found I could barely do it. To this day I swim like a brick. If I was more than 50 feet from the shore, I'd be in deep shit.

[Xyzse]

102. Maybe... But there are reasons.

When you're younger, yes it is instinctual, which is why you have to learn somewhat at a younger age.
Grow older and gain a healthy respect or fear of water, you drown...

It is usually because by the time people get older, people think things through more.
The instinct is to thrash and panic. By the time people finish that, they get tired, their arms or legs cramp due to the exertion... They drown.

It is basically when panic sets in that usually causes drowning.

As for that "bs" you've heard about, I heard a programming once mentioning that many did not have access to pools public or otherwise while younger, so there is a fear of drowning built in.

It is hard to relax when you don't know what you're doing.

[aquart]

105. Gosh. If you aren't near a pool and no one teaches you, you won't be able to swim.

YES, babies can learn real fast. OH, LOOK! Little sister had a special kiddie class certified and everything. And pools galore to make sure she didn't lose the skill.

I'm not surprised by this. My stunningly privileged step-nephew believed all children were born with a bicycle.

BTW, black people with pools and beaches swim just fine. Brown ones, too. And yellow ones.

But my Nordic, Swedish/Norwegian/Dutch/English whiter than white brother-in-law cannot swim. Uses these cute noodles in the pool he's so scared of the water even at 50.

Babies have an open for all kinds of learning. But at some point that shuts off and the course is set.

[unblock]

109. how does one not know how to play a musical instrument?

if one is never taught, one never learns.

humans do not instinctively know how to swim, or even stay afloat for an extended period of time, without at least some instruction. *some* people naturally take to the water, and *some* people can get enough of an education simply by carefully observing others. but many people trash about and can only stay afloat by expending so much energy that they can't last 10 minutes.

personally, i *can* swim, i learned how because my parents thought it important that i get lessons. but i hate it because i can't get past the instinctive panic. can't exhale completely in water, therefore can't take a full breath. i just can't relax. my mother can, she's like a fish; but my father has the same instinct i do, and he and i almost never swim.

[life long demo]

116. Speaking as an older women (70) I never learned how

to swim. There were no pools around when I was growing up, except for kiddie pools. But as I got older and started working, I joined the YWCA pool. What I did was go into the deep end and tried to get from one side to another, doggie paddle, but I found I could float on my back and move my arms to propel me from one side to another. I just wanted to learn how not to drown. lol

[Atman]

117. Okay, there is a bright side to this...

We're talking about babies swimming, and not IRS, AP or Benghazi!

[Cleita]

118. I don't and I have had swimming lessons.

I just tense up and can't. I can float though so I could perhaps survive a short while if thrown overboard. My mother told me I got caught in a rip tide when I was three years old. Fortunately, some men who were body surfing nearby saved me from drowning. I don't remember the incident but I believe my fear of being immersed over my head in water must come from that.

[DesertFlower]

119. i'm 71 and never learned how to swim. i tried,

but always had a problem with kicking my feet. BTW. i'm a white woman.

[Still Blue in PDX]

121. I can't swim.

I've taken lessons as an adult and just can't do it.

Neither of my parents swam and it just wasn't a priority to teach me when I was a kid. I'm terrified of water. Can't even do water aerobics without making a fool of myself because the instructor expects me to take both feet off the bottom of the pool at the same time.

[nobodyspecial]

124. Well, I hope you took this thread as an opportunity to better educate yourself

Lots of good responses for you to consider.

[RedCappedBandit]

125. If you were never exposed to water as a child, you would probably react differently to water now.

I grew up around water, love it, never feared it.

But that doesn't prevent me from empathizing with others who see things differently. Sheesh.

[darkangel218]

126. I grew up around water too

I almost drown when i was 5. I could never learn how to swim.


Swimming is not for everyone.

[Logical]

128. Self delete. Safe some face. n-t

[Democracyinkind]

130. We rich kids sometimes just don't get it.

[jwirr]

132. Easy. I am 72 years old and my father was deathly against swimming since his arthritis would kick in

every time he got wet. When I was growing up he did not let me learn to swim and when as a teen I tried to learn the teenage boys thought it was very funny to dunk me and most of the girls - that ended that try. All depends on how you are taught to swim.

[SoCalDem]

133. Inner city people often do not know how to swim

Even non-city people who are not near pools or safe water, grow up as non-swimmers.

Fear of water (deep water) is also primal, and while some people may be able to dog paddle to the edge of a pool, there is no way those people would be able to overcome the panic when they are faced with a current in a river or an undertow at a beach.

Public pools are often too crowded to learn on one's own, or with a parent's supervision. Public pools are always being shut down for lack of funding too.

Not too long ago, towns/cities used to offer free (nearly free) lessons every summer for kids.

Kids are less fearful when a group of them learn together, and they are taught by swimming instructors.

[Bluenorthwest]

137. My city certainly offers swimming and aquatings lessons...yours does not?

nt

[duffyduff]

136. Lots of people don't know how, yours truly included.

Have no desire to after all these years.

[PasadenaTrudy]

138. I can't swim..

I'm almost 50 and I've made it this long w/out it.

[LiberalFighter]

139. If you don't go to the lake or swimming pool when you are younger

Not likely to know how to swim. Then when the older a person gets without trying to swim the more likely they will think they can't swim and therefore they think they can't. Fear has a lot of power.