Star Trek film has political message (Spoiler)

[lindysalsagal]

Something to the effect of: "If we resort to violence as vengeance against our enemies, we sink to their low level. Instead, we should be better than our enemies. "

Ok, I messed it up a little bit. But it seems clear to me that it's a clear indictment of the way we used 911 as an excuse to invade the wrong country.

Just my humble opinion. The film was a lot of fun. Good, credible, and realistically limited bad guy. Great cgi, great use of previous characters. Good character development. Love Scottie. Hysterical.

Anyone else see it yet?

[dsc]

1. I saw it

Not the best film nor the worst of the series. I would rank it as middling. I think they could have, and should have, gone much deeper into the political point they were supposedly making. Maybe the next film will explore it more.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. We will, on Tuesday

[graham4anything]

3. Actually, I disagree.

I took it to mean President Obama should not stoop to the Republican level and keep his head on the long term prize and not engage in the republican gladiator mob type actions.

I did take the movie to be about the capture of BinLaden though and doing whatever it took to catch him.

I still don't get though why they need to have clones of the original when none of the actors/actresses brought anything new to the roles that.

It was like they all were playing dressup as the original characters to bring in today's kids.

That said, I liked it and that it was sort of a sequel in a prequel (stopping to not reveal).

And it also reminded me of a different older movie too in the ending.

And at one point, the music was very much like the Rocky theme leading up to the famous part of that soundtrack(but not the famous part itself).

What is interesting is that Star Trek predated of course, all the other later reference points like Indiana Jones and Star Wars and JJ Abrams had bits from each of those in here.

and kudos for a special moment

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. I think it's hard to attribute political messages to a recycled story.

Whatever political messages are in it were present in Star Trek II.

I liked it, but my kids got tired of me explaining what was going to happen next.

[graham4anything]

12. well, as Ronald Reagan used to say

the time it was written was right around election 1980 to spring 1981
(with a writers strike in between).

So that was a similiar age in that it was a battle of Reagan/Carter with the uprising in Iran
at the time.

Gene wasn't directly involved after the 1st movie tanked and some didn't even think there would ever be anymore(where they wrong or what 30plus years later LOL).

Gonna watch the other and also watch Space Seed.

LOL to your final sentence above. Yup.

btw, Cumberbatch was an interesting choice for the role.
I imagine now every single actor in the world wants to be associated with some movie that forever they can do Sci-Fi conventions and rake in the big bucks when their career dries out
(like all the ones in Rings/Potter and other franchises that back in the original Star Trek TV
show no one ever thought it would be around 10 years later and even remembered.

[LWolf]

16. You took this movie

to be a message about Obama? Really?

Stories have themes, and some of those themes may apply to politics. Some movies are written about particular political figures, and will be written with a "message" or bias towards the political figure or event.

But to suggest that a Star Trek movie is sending a message about Obama is just ludicrous.

[graham4anything]

18. Logic says President Obama is very Spock/Yoda like.

Yoda is very Spock like

[LWolf]

20. Good God.

Applying fictional hero status to a POTUS is just sick.

In my opinion.

And Yoda is not Spock-like. Spock is logic; Yoda is the force, which is driven by feeling/intent and faith.

[graham4anything]

22. Without Star Trek, there wouldn't have been Star Wars.

And without Star Wars, Star Trek wouldn't have continued in its second phase(sequels and movies).

They enabled each other

[LWolf]

27. That's a hypothesis, anyway.

Lucas doesn't link his story to Star Trek, but to Flash Gordon, Joseph Campbell, and Kurosawa.

Flash Gordon, in turn, was influenced by Buck Rogers.

Roddenberry, on the other hand, told people that Star Trek was supposed to be a "western" set in space, sort of like Wagon Train. He also attributes his creation to Gulliver's Travels.

Star Trek and Star Wars: two different ideas from different people. Not linked except for loosely by setting and genre.

It's true that Shatner credits Star Wars with making the later Trek movies possible.

If he can be considered a credible source.

[lindysalsagal]

36. Yeah. I cried a little on the special moment~

(snif)

[longship]

4. Nope. Not sure I want to. I suspect the real message is...

"What did Roddenberry know!!!! I want more action... I said more action... I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE STAR TREK HISTORY. I WANT MORE ACTION!!!!!!!"

Sic transit Gloria mundi. Or at least the Star Trek world. That's what happens when you turn over a generation old thoughtful science fiction icon to a talentless Gumby like JJ Abrams.

I won't be seeing this one. Ever! I had enough of Abrams in the first reboot.

For Christ sakes, it looked like Scotty was chief engineer in a brewery, not a starship.* And the bridge DOES look like an Apple Store.

*the interiors of the Enterprise were indeed filmed at a Budweiser brewery in CA. Not too disguised, either. Hence the disgusting and prominent Budweiser product placement in the bar scene. Yet another reason to despise JJ Abrams and the production team who dealt that abortion. And the little guy with Scotty was JJ Abrams' version of Jar-Jar Binks.

[Shivering Jemmy]

5. Roddenberry was overrated

Every other episode revolves around some freaking super being. I can imagine him taking a hit from a bong every time he dreamed up one of those cockamamie super being plots...

[longship]

6. Yup! But there were many pretty great episodes.

The god-beings were annoying, but the stories often carried them through. After all, how many aliens can you create when they're all basically low tech humanoid bipeds. So you're gonna inevitably get the earth parallel worlds, and the gods.

It's not the aliens and the gods that set Star Trek apart. It was how the Enterprise dealt with them. That's what set Star Trek apart. They had weaponry, but they were not on a military mission. In 1967 that was fairly new thinking.

I disagree with your opinion of Roddenberry.

And JJ Abrams is still a Gumby director.

"Scotty! Pour us all another round!"
The new Enterprise doesn't need dilithium crystals; they have all the beer they want. (If you call that Budweiser swill beer, that is.) The engineering decks of the new Enterprise sure had a lot of it.

Rubbish!

[Throckmorton]

11. TV for a different era.

Top five TV shows from 1967:

•The Andy Griffith Show
•The Lucy Show
•Gomer Pyle U.S.M.C.
•The Dean Martin Show (NBC)
•Bewitched

[Cannikin]

28. Could not agree with you more, Longship.

Awful movie. Terribly disappointed.

[graham4anything]

13. Roddenberry though had nothing to do with 2.He was relieved of his duties after 1.

[Cannikin]

31. He still had involvment. He was removed as producer.

He was an executive consultant.

[lindysalsagal]

41. He was right about the flip phones, automatic doors, racial intermixing

talking computers, usb thumb drives and lasars. Ok, the little blinking christmas lights going off on some of the consoles were totally pathetic, but they made the actors all the more endearing for playing along. Same goes for the styrofoam boulders.

To understand how significant the civil rights episodes were, you had to be there in those bad old days of outright hatred and civil rights demonstrations, like I was. Putting a black woman in charge of something on the bridge was unthinkable, albeit, silly, because she was really the phone operator. But she was smokin' hot! He never wrote down to racial stereotypes on that. I have to admit, Kirk was always leering at pretty women, though.

We were in a cold war with russia, and everyone loved Chekov. Even Spock's differences were shocking.

Roddenberry showed us how long and slow and stubborn the human learning curve is. He showed us that we never learn anything important except the hard way, through losses. He wrote about bad race relations and civil rights violations and worker's rights violations and class warfare and military war at a time that those ideas were totally entrenched as acceptable in "good" society.

Ok, he got the transporter thing wrong, and only some women like to wear mini skirts to work.

I think he really made us take a good hard look at ourselves. I think he was a visionary, and a social scientist. When most of the rest of TV was sex and violence and flashy cars, he made us look at ourselves and think.

The guy's awesome to me.

[XemaSab]

43. The communications officer is the third in command

http://www.startalkradio.net/show/a-conversation-with-nichelle-nichols/

[Orrex]

48. Except in every episode and film

Nice sentiment, but if that's the case, then she should have booted Scotty out of the chair every time he sat in it.

[dogknob]

17. LOL! Engineering was actually shot in a brewery.

Special features on DVD. It's a brewery. You get a prize.

[longship]

24. That's why I posted my post.

It fucking looks like a brewery. And from the results, it looks like the creative staff on the movie were dipping in a bit too much.

Abrams: I know. Let's turn Star Trek into a Star Wars Action Jackson flick. And while we're at it, let's make it cheaply and film the interiors of the Enterprise in a brewery. In other words, let's destroy the soul of everything in the Star Trek universe. And while we're at it, we need our own Jar Jar Binks character cuz that worked out so great for Star Wars.

[ejpoeta]

26. you should check out this honest trailer.

&list=SP86F4D497FD3CACCE&index=1

[longship]

29. And more lens flares! ROFL !

Worthless flick, eh?

And they're correct about Chris Pine's open mouth poses. Uhura even calls him a mouth breather in an earlier scene. Must be true.

[A Little Weird]

42. Awesome trailer!

[ejpoeta]

44. Check out their other ones. They are great

[neverforget]

46. Tan mom!

[lumberjack_jeff]

7. I saw it yesterday. I liked it. But then again, I'm a big fan of recycling. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

9. I liked it.

I thought it was a fun movie, and am very glad I didn't see it in 3-D. There was a need for more Karl Urban, preferably in spandex or less.

[The Blue Flower]

10. The title is about going to Cheney's "dark side"

The mission was an illegal militarization of their peaceful mandate. I thought it was fun. I enjoyed the references to previous films.

[Pholus]

14. I dunno, that message was kinda too obvious as in kid after school special obvious.

As was the big reversal plot twist at the end.

As was the solution to the plot twist.

And the alternate timeline has Carol Marcus as a military officer weapon specialist as opposed to a pacifist scientist whose relationship with Kirk failed because of his military tendencies.

The story actually kinda sucked when you put it up to the light of day.

I loved how the new actors nail their characters (they're the complete reason I enjoyed the movie) but please give them some better material....

And better costumes. Who bought out that stock of extra "Captain Needa" uniforms from George Lucas?

[deutsey]

15. I feel the same way

The actors are incredible. I enjoyed watching them and the dynamics of their relationships develop.

I found the story very disappointing, though. And Spock chasing down Kahn and beating him up? I understand they were trying to make him a little more like Kirk and Kirk a little bit more like him, but I thought it was lame.

[randome]

19. A remake of 'The Wrath of Khan'? WTF? I was disappointed, too.

This movie did not need to be made.

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[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[graham4anything]

21. Aren't Spock and Kirk one person cut in two anyhow? Brain vs. Brawn.

with Nimoy/Spock winning 100% of the time througout the history

[deutsey]

23. Yeah, they always counterbalanced each other

in a yin yang way. Kirk is swarthy impulse and cunning and Spock is pure logic and playing by the rules (until it's Vulcan mating season, then watch out!).

I can accept that Spock and Uhura are a couple in this Star Treck universe, but seeing him running down the streets of San Francisco like Popeye Doyle in the French Connection and then having a battle of the titans with Kahn just seemed lame to me.

[Pholus]

25. There is one critical difference between New and Old Kirk.

Might even be timeline alteration consistent, but they are not the same person...

New Kirk seems uncultured and inexperienced. His theme seems to be that his urge to act without regard for rule or precedent is a counterbalance to inertia in the federation. He's more of a punk prematurely put in a position he really hasn't earned by odd strokes of chance and a single large lucky break.

Old Kirk had impulse and cunning all right, but driving it was compassion and belief in the ideals of the federation. Additionally, it was always plain (like in the Court Martial episode) that he was the captain because of a relatively short but exceptionally distinguished service record. But he did his time and went through a career path that ended in command.

This is not Chris Pine's fault, but New Kirk is not as vibrant as old Kirk and his violation of the Prime Directive is for selfish personal reasons -- saving one member of his crew. Old Kirk certainly run roughshod over the prime directive in TOS and caused no end of agony for the fans, but he always had moral and ethical sounding principles -- he had a larger picture in mind each time.

Sorry to say it, but old Kirk was far more intellectual than new Kirk...

[deutsey]

30. Good point

I think the actor playing New Kirk has a lot of potential to fill this character out in the ways you mention, but you're right: at the moment, he's just a rowdy party boy.

Maybe the whole thing about Kirk sacrificing himself (ala Spock in "Wrath of Kahn&quot is meant to help him grow more as a character. It seemed that way with the speech he gave and how he behaved on the bridge of the Enterprise as it embarked on its deep-space mission at the end.

The writers could have come up with a more imaginative way to do that, though.

[Pholus]

35. That's a good way to think about it....thanks! :) nt

[graham4anything]

34. agree 100%.

[DainBramaged]

32. Going this Friday, took the day off, long weekend

[JoDog]

33. Saw it yesterday (SPOILERS!!!)

BIG SPOILERS! YOUR LAST WARNING!















When the gang gets their orders to go after John Harrison (Benedict Cumberbatch's character), those orders are to kill him. Do not try to contact him, do not try to capture him. Just lock on the life sign and fire torpedoes from space.

Spock reminds Kirk that these orders are outside the law. Federation law clearly forbids execution without trial. No matter what crimes Harrison is accused of, he must have his day in court. Spock's argument has an effect on Kirk, which sets off the rest of the movie's action.

So, yes, there is a little bit of a political message there, if only in 1 scene.

[trumad]

37. Agree---

I loved the movie... Great special effects... just fun stuff.

Especially in 3D

[lindysalsagal]

38. You got me thinking that the entire film was about the right/wrong ambiguity

and how taking the risk of "helping"Harrison was the only way to find out what his weakness was so that it could be exploited by Spock.

The old Kirk would have blown the bastard's head off, but this new one understands that life and morality aren't black and white, they're up for interpretation. The new Kirk knew that with a super-being who's fully informed about what's going on, he'd have to get close to him and take that risk. He also knew in his gut that the bad torpedo star fleet orders signaled something sinister and suspect in the federation. He knew he'd never find the answers without following harrison. Also, Harrison had rescued them from the klingons, so, he knew harrison needed them, he just didn't know why. Spock figured it out.

Super-super spoiler::::: LOOK AWAY!!!!!!!!




















Will someone please explain to me how the spocks had that conversation!!!!! Why didn't they have it much much sooner? Why did the young spock even think the old spock would have any dirt on the guy?

[randome]

39. That scene did not make sense to me at all. It was too 'easy' to contact the older Spock.

JJ Abrams has made a mess out of the reboot. And I don't say that lightly when someone takes on a new interpretation.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[WeekendWarrior]

40. I think you're reading what you want to into it

It's just a movie with some recycled plots from older Star Trek shows and movies. It's popcorn and meant to be consumed that way.

[A Little Weird]

45. I saw the movie yesterday

Overall I thought it was ok but I was a little disappointed. I think I had built it up too much in my mind to be awesome because I loved the Wrath of Kahn so much. The other people with me both loved it and neither of them had seen the earlier Kahn so they came in just expecting a fun action flick (and that's what it was).

[jazzimov]

47. I LOVED the movie - some of the best 3D and CGI

I have ever seen.

That being said, this is more of an Action movie - whereas the original was more of a cerebral movie. (Which, BTW, is what scuttled the original pilot of TOS).

As much as I enjoyed this remake, One of the things I loved about the first movie was that Khan was not "physical", but a chess player. And Kirk and Spock defeated him by playing chess ("His strategy has been one-dimensional." "Helm: Z minus...&quot

The original also explored 2 famous novels and referred to them both - Tale of Two Cities "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few (or the one) and introduced the entire idea of the Kobyashi Maru "no-win" scenario. It also referred to Moby Dick, and properly attributed it to Khan - which ended up being his fatal flaw that allowed Kirk (and his well-trained crew: which the movie emphasizes team-work vs individual obsession) to defeat him.

But the greatest thing about the movie was that in the beginning, Kirk was given a gift of eye-glasses and described himself as "feeling old". At the end of the movie, those same glasses were broken - yet he described himself as "feeling young".

Regardless - I loved the new movie! I recommend seeing it in IMAX if possible - otherwise, definitley see it in 3D. Best I've seen since Avatar!

[redgreenandblue]

49. Just got done watching it.

I actually liked it a lot. And yeah, I picked up the same message as you did.

In the beginning of the movie, from the first ten minutes, I started to suspect that they would try to take a cheap shot at straw-maning away the prime directive once again (like in the TNG episode "pen-pals" for instance) but the movie took a completely different turn and ended up being pretty good.

I have to admit I am starting to like the new Star Trek.

And: I am kind of proud of myself that I was able to completely avoid spoilers to the point where I was actually totally clueless that the enemy was Khan.