O.K. I’ll say it.. What’s with the American Flags all over the destruction areas?

[busterbrown]

I certainly didn’t see flags all over the Federal Building when it was destroyed by Terrorists in 1995.

These American flags just don’t make sense to me..

Does this tragedy have a connection to Nationalism? Are all future disasters in this country going to be conflated with 911.

Somebody please explain...

[winter is coming]

1. I dunno, but if it gives them a few crumbs of comfort, what the hell. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

81. Exactly

Absolutely nothing more to be said in response to this.

[Eleanors38]

90. My take on it. I'd probably do the same.

[Tx4obama]

4. There is no reason to be rude, it was only a question. n/t

[deathrind]

7. +1

[southernyankeebelle]

133. It's OK. All they need is their guns and bible. Nuff said. I wish the state heeling. If

putting the flag up helps them I guess its fine.

[whathehell]

155. The word you want is "healing".

"Heeling" is something you teach to your dog.

[southernyankeebelle]

162. your right. thanks but sometimes you even have to have the heel republicans like dogs.

[whathehell]

164. True enough, lol.

[southernyankeebelle]

165. yep

[busterbrown]

9. Great answer..." Because we live in America"

Thats the same reasoning that gets us in so much trouble in the world..
Unfettered Nationalism is good! Right? Your a tough guy I guess?

[demwing]

80. they forgot "Freedom"

The number 1 answer to any question that begins with the words "Why does America"

[FSogol]

92. Freedumb!

[leftynyc]

100. That's what the flag means to you?

Unfettered nationalism? That's it? The federal government (our tax dollars) are going to be sent to OK to help rebuild a community, The American Red Cross, Americares and dozens of other charities are accepting donations on behalf of a town that lost everything a couple of days ago. If that's all the American flag means to you, I feel very sorry for you.

[RB TexLa]

3. Many people feel our national heritage is one of resiliency and overcoming things

And symbols of our country come to symbolize that as well.

[choie]

12. as opposed to other countries whose heritage is one of resiliency and overcoming things?

n/t

[RB TexLa]

14. No, it has nothing to do with the heritage other countries

[busterbrown]

20. Boy some people are clever around here.

Wish I could have responded as well as you did..
I just get pissed and want to fight...

[leftynyc]

101. Putting up a strawman is clever?

On what freeking planet?

[clarice]

102. Very well said. nt

[roody]

5. I guess the tornadoes were anti

American.

[RC]

6. Because nationalism and flying the flag is more important than

paying taxes for storm shelters in schools.

[Journeyman]

8. Well, the Smiley Face Flags seemed a good idea at first, but later seemed vaguely inappropriate. . .

So the neighborhood opted for whatever they could find that offered a semblance of hope, or at least the illusion, and since so many of them already had an American flag, as they found them in the rubble they hoisted them aloft in hopes of hoisting everyone's spirit.

Sorry if it was such a downer for you, but then, they're not intended for you but for those in the afflicted region. When your home is trashed you get to choose your response.

[Demo_Chris]

11. Gonna get flamed for this, but I think it's the press staging cliched photos

You see this iconic image at every disaster (that, and the stuffed animal carefully posed in the rubble) and the idea we are expected to believe is that some brave patriot climbed out of his bunker, quickly surveyed the devistation, then whipped out his flag and let 'er fly. Because, as it is well known, everyone has a flag ready to go at a moment's notice, and when one is heading for the bunker their flag is the first thing (after their bible but before their wife and kids) they grab.

I call bullshit. People aren't storing these in their shelters, they aren't finding them in the rubble, and they damn sure aren't the first thing they think about or purchase post apocolypse. It's some photojournalist looking for a prize.

[hay rick]

16. It's the press's idea of inspirational.

"Good television", circa 2013.

[Demo_Chris]

25. Pretty much. That's my opinion anyway.

Seriously, if your home is kindling how likely are you to find a freaking flag. Who would go looking for one?

[Egalitarian Thug]

18. No flames, but have you ever spent any time in OK? n/t

[Demo_Chris]

24. Yeah, I live on the Oklahoma / Texas border and travel there extensively

Mostly to small towns. It's horrifying to watch the towns and people I regularly visit facing that much danger.

[Egalitarian Thug]

29. First, let me say how sorry I am for that.

Secondly, since you know the place and the people, what's the mystery?

[Demo_Chris]

31. I guess I don't understand the question...

I don't think there is a mystery. I think these images are basically staged by the media. It's the traditional iconic post-disaster pic. I do not believe that the first thing ANYONE does when looking at their obliterated life is say to themselves, "This rubble needs a flag, and lookee, right there's a flag that didn't get blowd away!"

Seriously, what are the odds you'd just happen to have a flag handy?

[Egalitarian Thug]

45. No doubt, IMO, that they were brought in, I just find it completely believable that

the inhabitants did it themselves, but you live there and I've just had a few gigs there over the years, so I defer to your greater experience.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Having been in a few as a photog

No, those are not staged. You would get in all kinds of trouble for doing that.

You'd be amazed how things end up and survive...

I will leave it at that.

[pinboy3niner]

13. It's a massive conspiracy

Don't let them get to you!

[pintobean]

57. Preplanned, at that.

It's part of all their disaster drills. I'm with you, pinboy, I'm not taking their bait.

[pinboy3niner]

58. Thank God I'm not the only one who sees...

[defacto7]

15. Just photo ops

nothing more. Photo ops.

[onehandle]

17. To show Al Qaeda that this attack on our freedoms will not dissuade us from our China made flags.

Bring 'em on!

Or something...

[olddots]

21. unfortunately that may be the truest answer .

people want to believe in something and at times believe in anything that they are told will make them feel better.

[Egalitarian Thug]

22. ROTFLMAO!

I'm sorry that this happened, but...

Never mind, I already had one hidden today.

[pinboy3niner]

28. Not far wrong

I received as a handout, at a military reunion of my unit from Vietnam, a cap with our Screaming Eagle patch on the front.

The tag on the cap said, "Made in China."

[deutsey]

122. Two or three years ago on July 3 or so

someone earnestly went around the office where I work handing out little paper American flags.

The flags had "Made in China" on them as well.

I seemed to be one of the few who saw the irony of that.

[choie]

46. If you're not with us...

You're with the tornados...

[avebury]

72. LOL! nt

[treestar]

75. You win the internet for today

[cynatnite]

19. They suffered a trauma. I have no problems with how people choose to cope with it. n/t

[busterbrown]

26. Right, however when its used to further distrust, I’m bothered...

Are they reminding us of American Unity? The kind of unity we have not seen in 30 years?

[cynatnite]

34. Is that what they're doing in this situation?

People fly their flags for all kinds of reasons.

[busterbrown]

38. I wouldn’t want to bet that the reason for people putting up the flags was a for a showing of unity.

As someone previously noted.. I don’t thing the people of Austria put up flags after an Avalanche destroys one of their towns... Why are we different?

[cynatnite]

40. I still don't see the problem with this...

If people cope by raising an American flag, that's their business and more power to them. Why should they have to do what another country does?

This is how some choose to deal. Let them.

on edit: BTW, it's not a tea party rally.

[busterbrown]

43. Its all related..Why do people not want to admit this?

[cynatnite]

47. How is it related?

This is how they are coping with their trauma. What is so wrong with it?

People raise their flags for a lot of reasons. Some are because they are railing against the government. Some did it because of Obama. We did it because of Bush.

They're doing here to cope with a horrible trauma and are using it as a way to unify and draw strength for themselves. I see no problem with this.

[kestrel91316]

117. I find it ironic that OK, which as a state seems eager to secede, likes to fly the flag so much.

[RedEarth]

119. I live in Oklahoma City and wasn't aware that Oklahoma, as a state, was eager to secede

...thanks for bringing me up to date.

[wake.up.america]

23. Can't imagine Austrians flying flags after an avalanche wiping out a village.

[wake.up.america]

41. Nothing wrong with flying a flag in such horrible occurrence...

I just fail to see the connection between a natural disaster and being patriotic. OK - Whatever makes you feel better after experiencing such a horrible tragedy.

[deutsey]

126. This just occurred to me, fwiw: it's deep within our national consciousness as Americans

The idea of the flag as an inspiring symbol of resiliance in the face of violence and uncertainty is engrained in our national anthem ("...that our flag was still there"...).

It's also an icon of WWII, being raised on Iwo Jima after some brutal fighting and destruction.

There are probably other examples, but these two come to mind immediately for me.

Not saying this justifies anything. I'm just wondering if it's just a part of our way of understanding what the flag means to us.

[cigsandcoffee]

139. That makes me feel sad for Austrians. n/t

[hrmjustin]

27. It is a symbol to some that they will prevail over it. I think it is a sign of a community and

nation coming together.

[busterbrown]

32. It would be nice, but I don’t believe that this was the purpose.

I think that behind every flag which was raised there was a voice against our govt. It might not be conscious but the tea baggers and republicans have hijacked the American flag. The Terms Liberty
Freedom and Founding Fathers have also been hijacked..

This is not about misplacing compassion in favor of politics.. I’m trying to analyze the distrust and anger in this country. My compassion for the victims is as strong as anyones.

[hrmjustin]

37. When I see the flag I see what is best in America. It is a beautiful thing to me.

I see a country that wants to better itself. I see our hopes and dreams.
I just don't think that is what the people who raised our flag up were thinking that.

Don't let the right hijack our beautiful flag.

[Jennicut]

160. No one can hijack your version of the flag.

People use the flag for multiple reasons. Also, many of these people didn't even vote in the 2012 election. Just over 50% turnout, 3rd worst state. Who knows if the flags were political.

[Eleanors38]

91. This thread is a bright illustration of why progressives have difficulty

understanding, let along talking to, millions of Americans. Jeeez.

[leftynyc]

107. Aint that the truth

I can't believe anybody is upset at the flying of the flag. It's not being used to start a war, it's not being used to further a destructive policy. They're letting the teabaggers live in their heads rent free and allowed them to steal the flag from the rest of us - how is that the problem of the people who lost everything this week?

[dhill926]

158. no kidding......

some of the posts on this thread are unbelievable. I spend a lot of time in OK. My guess, is that these folks are far more concerned with family, community and friends, than teabaggery.....

[GermanDem]

118. This is the best answer by far!!!

I have lived in Oklahoma for the past 13 years, I know the people here very well. They are proud and very resilient. Often not the smartest, but they love their communities and spring into action immediately when help is needed. This is exactly what they express with the flag: we stand together as a community, and we will get through this together!

[RedEarth]

120. As an Oklahoman, I think your answer is spot on

Oklahoma City , and many through out the country, came together after the Oklahoma City bombing, the May 3, 1999 tornado and they are coming together now. The outpouring of support from the people in Oklahoma City, the state and through out the nation has been outstanding. These people and the city of Moore will prevail and as you mentioned, the flag is a symbol of their determination.

[demosincebirth]

30. I see no problem at all with our flag flying in the breeze. We all live in the United States.

[premium]

33. I don't know and I don't care,

why do you? If that's what they want to do, who are we to question it?

[Scootaloo]

35. Because it's become a symbol of resilience in American culture, overcoming the odds

Basically? Each of those flags is giving a big "fuck you, chump" to the disaster.

Blame bad cinema if you want, but that's the way it is

[WinkyDink]

87. Yes, because Bangladeshis, Afghanis, Indonesians, ....no "resilience" there!

[deutsey]

128. But as I say upthread: the flag=resilience goes back to our national anthem

That's what the song's about: the flag (and what it stands for) enduring a violent threat.

The iconic raising of the flag on Iwo Jima comes to mind as well.

I'm not saying whether this is a good or a bad thing; just thinking that may be why many Americans fly flags in the midst of disaster.

[Scootaloo]

148. I don't know why you're so down on non-Americans Winky

They have plenty of resilience. Maybe htey just don't use their flags as a symbol of it. Really, not everyone in the world has to be like the United States, you know.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Maybe it/ me.

But the flags I have seen are at half mast.

I haven't noticed those on top of destroyed things, and have looked at many photos, but it it helps it happens almost every major disaster (and not just in the US)

I am more worried of the undercurrent of we can do this on our own I am hearing from public officials, no, you can't. And echoed by some folks here.

Those to me are worrisome...as to who we are becoming as a "nation."

I went looking again and of the slew there are three with flags. One is on the ground. It was probably on a house. The other two are a tad tattered. Three photos out of hundreds...

[Nye Bevan]

39. You really should go and confront those folks in person.

Tell the victims in no uncertain terms what your opinion is of how they should get through this tragedy, and what symbolism you think is and is not appropriate.

I'm sure they will appreciate your input very much.

[busterbrown]

42. How many people die horrible deaths everyday because of lack of healthcare. Compassion is deserved

for everyone who is suffering in this country on a daily basis.. Your comment is the typical simple answer I expected... I’ll tell you something buddy, you know nothing about my service to this country!!

[cynatnite]

51. Did you respond to the wrong person? n/t

[busterbrown]

53. Maybe, I’m done however.

I knew I’d raise a bit of a shit storm, however I just couldn’t keep thinking about my point..
i’m a compassionate person and my heart aches for every victim..

[pecwae]

65. True compassion doesn't

put conditions on the grief-stricken.

[Inkfreak]

67. Well said! n/t

[leftynyc]

108. +1000

Apparently it's more important to be a judgmental schmuck than show actual compassion.

[NCTraveler]

129. "I knew I'd raise a bit of a shit storm".

You knew, are getting what you want, yet say you are done. Don't drop a turd in the punch bowl and leave. You have to stick around and watch the reactions.

[Marengo]

68. I'd like to hear the details of your service to this country. N/T

[applegrove]

48. A republican way of showing mutual empathy & resilliance. Liberal Boston showed it

Last edited Wed May 22, 2013, 02:28 AM - Edit history (1)

with pay it forward acts of kindness. Could it be that the leaders on the right are afraid of random empathy breaking out so they replaced the empathy part of their followers hearts with patriotism. That is why the flags feel ‘off label‘ right now.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

104. Are you saying that no one in Boston waved their flag after the bombings?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding here, but I'm pretty sure both Boston and Oklahoma have displayed acts of kindness, empathy, and resilience. I doubt those people who chose to hang a flag called it a day on helping their fellow man after that.

[applegrove]

140. I'm just speculating. And remembering the GOP under Bush and how they tried to suppress

empathy during Katrina. Until the big blowback a few days later. Surely you don't think in the last 20 years the GOP has not been working on suppressing empathy for 'others' in their followers. Surely you have noticed they have used patriotism to get the poor in the south/west to vote against their own best interests. I'm just agreeing with the OP that it is odd and speculating as to why.

[NCTraveler]

127. How did you miss all of the pics of people in Boston waiving flags? nt.

[applegrove]

141. I did miss it. I was overwhelmed with the compassion and paying it forward everyone in Boston showed

[NCTraveler]

142. That is very good. Probably the same reason you are not noticing them in OK right now. nt.

[applegrove]

170. OKlahoma senator had an republican agenda answer ready for the tornado damage. If we accept

Government aid, what will be cut. Not hard to wonder if the GOP agenda is at play during crisis. After George W. Bush bungled Katrina and Boston showed incredible compassion (to fight terrorists with compassion and acts of kindness) after an attack (and you say showed US flags ,which are appropriate because it was an act of terror against the USA) it is not far beyond the realm of possibility that the GOP would want any emotionally loaded event, like a tornado, to project a GOP meme. Cause episodic memory is different that just regular every day memory. People learn deep lessons from such events. Everything is politicized by the GOP these days. Why not this? I'm not saying it was done over Monday night. It has taken decades for general empathy to be replaced with patriotism within people's hearts. That way empathy is only felt for like patriots.

[Half-Century Man]

49. I think its about the original purpose of flags.

As I was taught, what seems like a hundred years ago, having a brightly colored standard on a elevated staff gave people something to gather around or designate a place to go on the scattered hell of a battlefield.
It is our common use brightly colored standard we cluster around when the surrounding countryside looks like a hellish battlefield.

[busterbrown]

56. Well why our country so much. I understand when its for war..

But imagine after the Australian fires which decimated a huge part of the country 2 years ago.
Do you think they put up the Australian Flag over the burnt out homes...No...There is something amiss
here...

[Half-Century Man]

64. Maybe it a I'm still here thing.

A cultural "I'm not dead yet".

[loyalsister]

76. Not just cultural- literal

People have to let others know that they're okay somehow.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

50. Remember "The Star Spangle Banner"?

"Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there"

Well to place a Flag out is to say "we are still here".

It's a psychological boost thing.

[busterbrown]

60. That was a war song.. In a war the enemy tries to defeat you and when they do they take your

flag.. Its understandable... Sorry no war here why the flag?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

156. Because the enemy did not take the flag.

And the disaster did not take us.

[WinkyDink]

86. No. I remember "The Star SpangleD Banner."

[HangOnKids]

96. Post of the day

[Lady Freedom Returns]

159. ...

[Lint Head]

52. Maybe Mother Nature is a terrorist and we don't want any terrorism.... Wait a minute.

The insurance companies call this an Act of God in contracts. Shouldn't there be some anti God flags waving too?

[Comrade Grumpy]

54. It's an example of the granfalloon effect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granfalloon

GranfalloonFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A granfalloon, in the fictional religion of Bokononism (created by Kurt Vonnegut in his 1963 novel Cat's Cradle), is defined as a "false karass." That is, it is a group of people who outwardly choose or claim to have a shared identity or purpose, but whose mutual association is actually meaningless.

Examples [edit]The most commonly purported granfalloons are associations and societies based on a shared but ultimately fabricated premise. As examples, Vonnegut cites: "the Communist Party, the Daughters of the American Revolution, the General Electric Company —and any nation, anytime, anywhere." A more general and oft-cited quote defines a granfalloon as "a proud and meaningless association of human beings." Another granfalloon example illustrated in the book were Hoosiers, of which the narrator (and Vonnegut himself) was a member.

If you wish to examine a granfalloon, just remove the skin of a toy balloon. — Bokonon

"My God," she said, "are you a Hoosier?"
I admitted I was.
"I'm a Hoosier, too," she crowed. "Nobody has to be ashamed of being a Hoosier."
"I'm not," I said. "I never knew anybody who was." – Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

They had found a can of white paint, and on the front doors of the cab Frank had painted white stars, and on the roof he had painted the letters of a granfalloon: U.S.A. – Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

Granfalloon Technique [edit]The granfalloon technique is a method of persuasion in which individuals are encouraged to identify with a particular granfalloon or social group.[1] The pressure to identify with a group is meant as a method of securing the individual's loyalty and commitment through adoption of the group's symbols, rituals, and beliefs. In social psychology the concept stems from research by the British social psychologist Henri Tajfel, whose findings have come to be known as the minimal group paradigm. In his research Tajfel found that strangers would form groups on the basis of completely inconsequential criteria. In one study Tajfel subjects were asked to watch a coin toss. They were then designated to a particular group based on whether the coin landed on heads or tails. The subjects placed in groups based on such meaningless associations between them have consistently been found to "act as if those sharing the meaningless labels were kin or close friends."[2]

Researchers since Tajfel have made strides into unraveling the mystery behind this phenomenon. Today it is broken down into two basic psychological processes, one cognitive and one motivational. First, knowing that one is a part of this group is used to make sense of the world. When one associates with a particular group, those in the group focus on the similarities between the members. This is different from people not in the group. For "outsiders" differences are focused upon and often exaggerated. A problem with the granfalloon is that it often leads to in-group, out-group bias. Second, social groups provide a source of self-esteem and pride, a form of reverse Groucho Marxism as in his famous remark "I don't care to belong to any club that would have me as a member."[3]

The imagined communities of Benedict Anderson form a similar concept. Therapist Grant Devilly considers that granfalloons are one explanation for how pseudo-scientific topics are promoted.[4]

Granfalloon in popular culture [edit]In the 1997 video game Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, a boss was termed Granfalloon. It took the form of a huge ball of naked human corpses held together from within by a monstrous tentacled parasite. The monster's original Japanese name was Legion, as it is now called in the later translations.

On the Carole King album Tapestry, James Taylor is credited with playing the Acoustic Guitar and the Granfalloon

Granfalloon (fanzine) is the name of a Hugo Award-nominated science fiction fanzine.

The Granfaloon is also a bar in Kansas City. [5]

[Demonaut]

55. it's fine........leave it be

[Raine]

59. I hadn't even noticed them

[Niceguy1]

61. who cares?

Whatever happened to live and let live? Do we really need to be constantly be questioning people s motives?

[alphafemale]

62. The same reasons reasons people put a cross by the road at the scene of a fatal car accident.

Last edited Wed May 22, 2013, 06:16 AM - Edit history (2)

The same reason people tie teddy bears and other toys to fences when a child/children dies.

The same reason people release balloons.

Some people get comfort from symbolism.

I do not. But they do.

Leave them be.

It is not done to oppress you.

[aristocles]

63. +1

Thank you. Clear. Succint.

[lunatica]

70. And those people certainly need comfort right now.

I can't even imagine what experiencing that tornado could be like.

[B Calm]

66. They are trying to piss off Jane Fonda,

who really knows. . .

[Inkfreak]

69. "O.K. I'll say it."

We clearly ran outta shit to complain about with this latest disaster.

[CBGLuthier]

71. The main purpose is so that I, a Duer and an Oklahoman

can see once and for all that some people on DU are filled with so much hate for my state that I no longer belong here.

We are grieving and some of you are reaching down deep and spitting on everything we have ever done.

I think I can be a liberal without having to put up with this shit.

It has always been here. When there were wildfires years ago some Duers laughed with glee. State bashing is a recreational sport for SOME.

We are people. We are Americans. Some of us are even more liberal than most of you but condemn us to hell because most aren't.

Fuck it.

I have been here since damn near the beginning but I have had enough.

I am leaving. Some of the rest of us are too. I do hope all you residents of the superior states enjoy yourselves. You may as fucking well close the Oklahoma forum.

[Eleanors38]

93. I hear you. And some wonder why liberals can't get anywhere.

There is a lot of hatred, cultural animosity and prideful ignorance in DU. And some if these folks don't care who sees it.

[leftynyc]

110. Please don't assume all DUers

agree with this moronic OP (this NYer sure doesn't).

[CokeMachine]

136. +1000

The regional (state) bigotry here really sucks. If you don't live in a few select states then you are a hick that hasn't ever been to a dentist. It's just ugly!!

[cordelia]

151. Yep.

You'd never know we're supposed to be on the same side, would you?

[cherokeeprogressive]

168. My Mom's entire family is from Oklahoma. I lived in Midwest City and Choctaw. FUCK the haters.

I called them out on it the other night. Funny thing, my thread got locked but it took FIVE HOURS before they could get the right Oklahoma Haters to reach a "consensus" of Administrators to do that. I didn't see any hatred posts that got locked though.

Don't go. That means the haters win.

[ananda]

73. Many many OK people are paranoid victimy fundie flagwavers.

..

[winter is coming]

78. And many people who indulge in region bashing are insensitive clods.

Thanks for making DU suck.

[Nye Bevan]

79. DU jury endorses description of tornado victims as "paranoid victimy fundie flagwavers".

I am so sorry that DUers from Oklahoma have to see garbage like this here. I alerted but unfortunately the jury decided not to hide it.



YOUR COMMENTS:

Deriding the Oklahoma tornado victims as "paranoid victimy fundie flagwavers" is extremely hurtful and way over-the-top in my opinion. There are many good Democrats in OK who have lost everything and DUers should not be playing politics like this. Please consider reinforcing this point by hiding this post. Thank you for your time.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Wed May 22, 2013, 08:07 AM, and voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: These people are our fellow Americans regardless of their politics. They've been devastated by a natural disaster and need help. Kicking them when they're down seems to me to run counter to progressive behavior.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The alerter should post his/her reasons for alerting as a response (instead of alerting).
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: TRUTH

Thank you.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

99. Juror number 4 can't read

Sad.

[Nye Bevan]

103. I think Juror #4 is saying that instead of alerting,

I should have replied to the "paranoid victimy fundie" comment directly in the thread. Which I could have done, but what I really wanted to do was to have the post hidden to spare affected DUers from having to read that disgusting remark.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

105. Yeah, the old "deal with them in the thread" retort

A good way to kick off a multi post war with someone who has the sensitivity of a smashed grape.

[HangOnKids]

114. Jury didn't go your way

[npk]

163. I don't get the point of hiding posts instead of deleting the post

Any registered member can just click the "show" button and see what the member posted anyway. In fact I think when a post is hidden it just makes people want to read the questionable post more so, as many people skim through a thread and may be drawn to a more controversial post simply for the very fact that it is hidden.

I know there is nothing you can do about that, and I don't blame you for alerting on the post.

[RedEarth]

132. I'm from Oklahoma and I appreciate your comments

I'm been on du for years and once again have been made to feel sick by the mean spiritedness of some very hateful people. When I joined du, I thought perhaps it could be a place where people with a common interest in liberal ideas could come and feel welcomed, but I think I've reached the end of the line with this place. A number a years ago, they had to create a safe haven on du for people that live in the south....seems tragic that a site that claims it's progressive has to have a safe room just because of where people live.

Again, I appreciate your comments, as well as others that stood up for the people of Oklahoma.

[Nye Bevan]

145. The hatred of the South is about the worst characteristic of DU (nt)

[liberal_at_heart]

169. not just of the South. hatred of anything different. Prejudice, arrogance and self-rightousness

are not just republican traits. DU members display these traits too, everyday.

[11 Bravo]

115. But to be safe you'd best shit on everyone in the state. Wouldn't want to miss anybody, right?

Congratulations, you helped to make DU suck a little bit today.

[sarisataka]

116. Maybe I am mistaken

I thought progressives were better people because they do not wish death and destruction even on "paranoid victimy fundie flagwavers"

[HappyMe]

123. Your shitty comment

says a whole lot about you. None of it is good.

[RedEarth]

134. As an Oklahoman,

I appreciate you not being silent....you certainly lived up to your sig line....thank you!

[HappyMe]

135. You're very welcome.

[CokeMachine]

138. What a vile post! nt

[cordelia]

152. Repulsive post.

[treestar]

74. I would say generally, too.

After 911 even more so. Do people in other countries fly their flags as much?

[LanternWaste]

77. A subconscious use of positive symbolism resulting in a sense of tighter community closeness...

A subconscious use of positive symbolism resulting in a sense of tighter community closeness for the time being, I would imagine.

I'd guess the act is benign at worst, and seems to be of little accord to its critics, and yet is a comfort to many who look to it for that.

[liberal N proud]

82. My perception is that they were emulating the flag that was flown after 9/11 among the rubble

Don't know if that is the case, it just seems that way to me.

[nenagh]

83. Just after the disaster, I watched video of two strong male survivors, covered themselves in mud...

pull a ravaged American flag out of the wreckage and hammer it into a wooden post with rocks in their hands.

To me it said..."We shall overcome"...

If there is a forest of flags now...I hope it gives the survivors a greater sense of hope as they move forward from this disaster.

[Shrek]

84. It was done intentionally as a personal affront to you

[WinkyDink]

85. "Are all future disasters in this country going to be conflated with 911." In a word: YES.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

88. These people's houses just got knocked down

If they had a flag flying in front of their home, it's pretty much the easiest thing and maybe only thing to put up first. It's comfort.

You say you are "just asking a question", but it's pretty clear it irritates you. Let it go.

[busterbrown]

94. I’ll tell you what irritates me... Thousands of people dying because they are too poor and kids

going to bed hungry.... Thats what irritates me, a lot.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

98. And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

This thread which you created is about people who've just absorbed a tragedy putting up a flag, and you being clearly agitated that they did something on their property to make them feel just a little bit better. I guess I'm supposed to draw the conclusion they don't care about those people dying and poor kids or something?

[busterbrown]

106. Let me ask you again when an avalanche destroys a town in Austria do the citizens come out and

put Austrian flags on top of their destroyed houses? When There was that horrible earthquake in Chile did the citizens of Chile put flags over their destroyed buildings... Yea, I believe republican’s and tea baggers are very insensitive towards the plight of homelessness and lack of healthcare in this country..You can start with Oklahoma’s two Senators..

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

111. Who cares? people can do what they want on their property

I hate to break it to you, but one, some Democrats and liberals fly US flags in front of their homes, and two, the tornado didn't knock on doors and check the voter rolls to see what the party affiliation was of the house it was destroying. I'm sure some people propped up their mailbox, or maybe a clothesline, or a piece of fence that was left. Holy shit, these people had their lives ripped apart and you want to admonish them for that? "BUT AUSTRIANS DON'T TRY TO PUT UP THEIR HANGING FLOWERS AFTER AN AVALANCHE! YOU IDIOTS!!! BWAHAHAHAHA!!!"

Let. It. Go.

[onenote]

150. Your knowledge of Chile's response to disaster needs some work

[riverwalker]

89. "it's the American way"

kept hearing that yesterday, that helping dig neighbors out of rubble and rebuilding is supposedly uniquely "American".
Tell that to the Japanese, or in Bangledesh, or India. They seem to respond to disasters without the jingoism.

[onenote]

161. And the Chilean, Haitian, Japanese, Chinese etc. Way.

Maybe you should educate yourself before embarrassing yourself.

See post 150 for Chile.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1323483.1366570495!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/china22n-2-web.jpg



http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.168745!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/alg-earthquake-china-jpg.jpg







http://www.citationtechnologies.com/Blog/image.axd?

picture=2012%2F1%2Fhaitian+flag+half-mast.jpg

[bigwillq]

95. I have no problem with it

To me, it's a way of saying we are a proud nation, with strong people, and we will overcome.

[ScreamingMeemie]

97. This.

[MadrasT]

131. +1

[sarisataka]

109. Amazing

dozens killed and injured, hundreds of buildings destroyed and people will worry about how many flags Oklahomans are flying and ridicule them for doing it?

Some of y'all need a hobby.

To OK from MN- Get Well Soon

[madrchsod]

113. totally agree with you...

your post saved me from being really rude to a lot of people here. so here`s my .....

to you for an excellent reply

[siligut]

112. Maybe they have been conditioned to show allegiance to power when fearful

There is a RW tendency to connect patriotism to God.

I hope it gives them comfort.

[Lex]

124. Accurate.

That is the most accurate answer in the entire thread.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

121. It's a magic totem of patriotism!!

American flags make people think everything is better. Gives people a good feeling but doesn't do anything in reality.

(Thanking my sociology professor here.)



"When fascism comes to America, it will be under the guise of patriotism." --Huey P. Long

[NCTraveler]

125. "Does this tragedy have a connection to Nationalism?"

Absolutely it does. Not sure how it wouldn't. The nation will come together to help. The nation will mourn along with them. They know people outside of their community are watching, and they are showing the rest of us how to act in the face of fear.

[Malone]

130. New York Giants avatar

I think it is ironic you have a New York Giants avatar. So you understand the sense of community and pride of representing your local sports team, but not of the country you live in? Ridiculous.

[gopiscrap]

137. I agree I thought the same thing

also on a related note: I feel that our jingoistic nationalism is a huge problem in how we interact with the global community.

[oldhippie]

143. OK, I'll say it .....

If it has to be explained to you, you wouldn't understand it.

[onenote]

146. We have a winner! +a really big number

[Skip Intro]

144. Takes a special kind of poster to mock how a town copes

with devastation.

But to answer your question, the flag represents to millions a resilience and determination and defiance.

With all eyes fleetingly on this town, this is how some chose to convey those iedals. That they've taken a big blow, but are deterimined to rise up from it.

I guess viewing life as a series of passing points of interest on a luminous screen from comfortable surroundings might make that hard to get.

[bushisanidiot]

147. Maybe they are in support of our Commander In Chief who immediately offered to lend a hand

in any way he could, just like he did when hurricane Sandy hit and when the tornado in Joplin hit.

Maybe it's in support of government programs like FEMA who will be helping to support the victims
and rebuild neighborhoods and restore normalcy to a devastated area.

Maybe it's a way to tell congress that we're all americans and we should be working together
in good times and in bad times to make this country a better place for EVERYONE.

[bike man]

149. O.K. I'll ask it.. What, or whom, does it harm? Certainly not me. Does it you? Really? And

if it makes them feel better when all around them lies devastation, ruin, injury, and death - well, more power to them. It's at least as good as sending "good vibes and healing thoughts", don't you think?

[Libertas1776]

153. American flags being festooned...

over an umpteen number of things, especially after a tragic event, I would have to say is an unavoidable remnant from post 9/11 days that I don't believe will be going away any time soon. I think it's silly when it gets overdone and in a way, cheapens the meaning and symbolism of the flag (in this case, I'm not necessarily focusing on this tragic event and the flags, or the flags in TX, or the flags in Boston, but just flags being overused in general or as background graphics for virtually anything).

All that being said, if it brings them comfort, then let the flags fly. My concern right now is for those school children down there, not to sit here and wax vexillological.

[get the red out]

154. 911 - yes

Sigh. Tornadoes are terrorists too.

[Arkansas Granny]

157. I don't live in OK, but I've lived next door for 45+ years and know a good number of Oklahomans.

It is a very conservative state and many conservatives feel that patriotism belongs to them exclusively. They also link patriotism with religion, so by flying the flag they are letting the casual observer know that they are Christian patriots, which makes them feel superior to the rest of us. It has become more and mroe of a trend since 9/11 and is very much identified with the conservative movement. The two most read newpapers in our town had front page pictures today of flags flying amidst the rubble.

[Throd]

166. Why do some people equate shitting on the flag with liberal street cred?

If my community was flattened by an EF5 tornado and I found a flag in the debris, I'd put it up too.

[liberal_at_heart]

167. I will criticize law makers who with hold relief money unless cuts are made somewhere else, but

I will not begrudge someone a symbol that gives them hope when everything they love sometimes even their loved ones have been taken from them.