Michael Moore is a damn jerk at times.

[Skip Intro]

He tweets: "I am outraged that we can't kill people in other counties without them trying to kill us!"

He tweets this in response to the hacking to death and beheading of an off-duty Brittish soldier on the streets of London by a maniac with a cleaver shouting Muslim praises.

And a smug MM all but pledges solidarity with the guy.

I don't like smarmy and crass people, conservative or liberal, and I ain't caring too much for Michael Moore right about now.

on edit - link: https://twitter.com/MMFlint/status/337451498369851393

[cali]

1. well, he's not my favorite person

and never has been and other than his first flick, I'm not a huge fan from an artistic/film pov.

[JaneyVee]

2. Yeah, not a fan of smugness myself.

[HangOnKids]

3. I don't know either you or Mike but I like Mike more n/t

[RetroLounge]

18. ^^^ This!

RL

[HangOnKids]

24. Thanks Good Lookin! n/t

[Arctic Dave]

4. Meh.

Doesn't effect me.

[NOVA_Dem]

5. Yeah, why can't those "animals" use drones like civilized people. n/t

[whatchamacallit]

9. +1 n/t

[Luminous Animal]

81. +1

[niyad]

6. sarcasm, perhaps?

[Duer 157099]

10. Exactly. Whooosh!

and over the head it goes!

[City Lights]

13. I know, right?! nt

[Brigid]

15. Yes, that was my first thought too.

It is true that Moore can act like a jerk at times (can't we all?), but in this case I think there's good reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[indepat]

77. Suspect MM was ridiculing the idiocy of fighting the war on terra on the four

the earth, wasting innocents along the way as collateral damage, and being shocked if others take umbrage when the life of someone important to them has been cavalierly snuffed out by the exercise of our righteous wrath.

[Incitatus]

28. Exactly

Some might not like the way he conveyed his point, but he has a point.

[RandiFan1290]

7. mmhmm

[Electric Monk]

8. Admit it, you've had it in for him since Bowling For Columbine (if not before)

[JI7]

11. that guy's accent sounded British to me

[tblue]

12. Can someone please translate?

I don't understand what he's saying. I know what he's talking about, but I don't get the point he's trying to make. Is this sarcasm? Sorry to be dense. I just don't want to opine without understanding what he means. Not gonna assume I get it.

[JI7]

16. he is saying we should not be upset at what happened because he claims it was in response

to things like the attack in iraq

[Nevernose]

85. I think he'd be the first one to say we should all be upset

I think his intention was to point out that we shouldn't be surprised.

We've killed tens of thousands of people all over the world in the last twelve years. Some were enemies of the United States, and a lot more were innocent people minding their own business. It is therefore ludicrous to act surprised when they do something back to us. MM just has a better sense of humor.

[uppityperson]

17. He is mocking those who say we should not expect retribution for what our gvt does.

Like here, some people are unable to separate individuals with what the gvt does and take out the anger with the gvt on the individuals. He is mocking those who think or say the USA gvt should be able to do anything without worrying about repercussions on individuals.

[BeyondGeography]

14. Sometimes you have to hold your nose with him

He can go from Nader 2000 to Fahrenheit 911 and urging Nader not to run in 2004 in the space of a few years. On balance, I'm very glad he's out there.

[pa28]

19. His sense of humor can be cutting and challenging. It's not for everybody.

You can always watch Jay Leno if you don't like it.

[Cha]

20. that's real comforting to Lee Rigby's family and loved ones.

smug asshole.

An extremely popular and witty soldier, Drummer Rigby was a larger than life personality within the Corps of Drums and was well known, liked and respected across the Second Fusiliers. He was a passionate and life-long Manchester United fan.

A loving father to his son Jack, aged 2 years, he will be sorely missed by all who knew him. The Regiment’s thoughts and prayers are with his family during this extremely difficult time. “Once a Fusilier, always a Fusilier.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/drummer-lee-rigby-london-attack_n_3326381.html

the Soldiers aren't "fighting Muslims".. they're fighting against bloody terrorists. Muslims are Peaceful.. it's the extremists in any religion or idealogy that are the fucking problem.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/london-attack-suspects-probed_n_3325767.html?utm_hp_ref=world

[bobduca]

35. Better not send them a link to this thread!!!

[RetroLounge]

21. "all but pledges solidarity..."

Weasel words...

RL

[Cali_Democrat]

22. Yup. Skippy just pulled that one out if his ass

Par for the course.

Skippy doesn't like Michael Moore? What a shock.

[HangOnKids]

48. Was there a pledge in MM words?

Gee I do not see that, where in the world would someone get that?

[ananda]

23. I like Michael Moore -- a lot!

Put on your irony cap there.

[bobduca]

25. "I don't like smarmy and crass people, conservative or liberal"

same here.. yuck. That Michael Moore is giving Aid to the Enemy!1111

[dembotoz]

26. mm is right on target often enuf that even when he is wrong he is probably right

that is the trouble with twitter

have to condense everything down to a phrase or two and sometimes it just ain't enuf

[Uzair]

27. Yeah, the truth sucks doesn't it

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

The fact of the matter is that Michael Moore is 100% correct in his assessment of the situation. If you can't handle it, tough for you. Drone strikes, the "war on terror", the belligerent foreign policy undertaken by the government, both Republican AND Democrat (Admittedly not so MUCH Democrat, but still there), is the direct cause of these terror attacks, whether they be one maniac with a meat cleaver or two brothers with some fireworks and pressure cookers.

It's time we all stop playing stupid games and just out with the truth already.

[randome]

29. The truth is that these fundamentalists kill and brutalize far more than the U.S. govt ever did.

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[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Uzair]

30. Wow. You're woefully misinformed

The American government has killed more people than every terror attack combined. Do a google.

[randome]

32. I'm talking about what the fundamentalists do to their own people.

That doesn't even compare to drone attacks. It probably doesn't even compare to those we killed needlessly in Iraq.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[BainsBane]

31. not even close

Add up the numbers for Iraq and Afghanistan. Those alone surpass killing by fundamentalists.

[randome]

33. Actually, neither of us should be playing a numbers game here.

But for sheer brutality, the fundamentalists have us beat. And their's is a long-term suppression and brutality of women, gays, anyone who doesn't belong to the same sect, etc.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[BainsBane]

34. What are you talking about?

We've done plenty of suppression ourselves. I find it amazing that the President speaks out for gay marriage a few months ago and suddenly everyone feels entitled to wag their finger at the rest of the world. The fact is you and I have much more blood on our hands than citizens of any nation on earth as well as the fundamentalist Islamists. I have to wonder if you see Muslim life as worth less than the life of Westerners. We have tortured people ruthlessly, suppressed democratic movements, and put in reactionary dictatorships throughout the Muslim world. Radical Islam emerged as a response to US foreign policy. We gave birth to them, and now we are facing the consequences. You need to learn something about the history of US foreign policy.

[randome]

37. How many raped women are stoned to death? How many daughters beheaded?

How many suicide bombings and sectarian hatred did extremists adhere to before we went and made everything worse by invading Iraq?

An average of 5 people a day are disfigured by acid attacks.

The fundamentalists in the Muslim world and the fundamentalists in the Western world are all cut from the same cloth. What occurs between governments often has nothing to do with it. And Michael Moore saying, essentially, that the man beheaded in London was simply 'tit for tat' is ridiculous on the face of it.

Fundamentalist atrocities have nothing to do with politics.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[niyad]

39. really? like the fundamentalist politicians in this country and their woman-hating agenda?

nothing to do with politics? what are you smoking?

[nomorenomore08]

64. How many? A lot. But the only truly acceptable number would be 0, of course.

Still, in terms of body count we beat out everybody, in contemporary times. Hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, the overwhelming majority of them by U.S. bombing campaigns. Even Assad can't match those numbers.

[geek tragedy]

45. Muslims have killed a lot more Iraqis than the US did.

Most of the dead result from the Iraqi civil war between religious factions.

We bear ultimate responsibility for creating the powe vacuum that lead to the civil war, of course.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

69. Most of those *were* killed by Muslim fundamentalists!

The main reason Iraq and Afghanistan have been such catastrophes is not the civilians the west has killed by accident, but the far, far larger number of civilians the west has failed to prevent muslim fanatics from killing.

[BainsBane]

70. right

They were all "fanatics." Is that how you justify endless war and slaughter? We invaded the fucking country, took out their government, and caused chaos. That is on you and me, not "fanatics." "Fanatics" = refusal to submit to American domination.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

71. Hence the attacks on civillians?

Much of the violence in Iraq has been perpetrated by people who were *against* Saddam, come to that.

And the majority of the population of both Iraq and Afghanistan initially supported Western invasion.

So yes, I think "fanatics" is entirely apt.

[BainsBane]

79. You don't know those people

You assume because of stereotypes and little knowledge of local political tensions, Ever occur to you the fanatics might be the people who invaded in the name of "democracy"?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

80. Only for as long as it took to dismiss the suggestion as absurd, I'm afraid. N.T.

[geek tragedy]

44. So, are all dark-skinned Muslims 'them' while

white Christians are 'us?'

Because that's the only way Moore's tweet makes sense.

[Bonobo]

36. "all but pledges solidarity" translation:

"He does NOT pledge solidarity, but he pissed me off"

It is much more likely that he is *gasp* trying to get people to realize that their are negative consequences to bellicose international actions.

Yes, it takes a certain kind of monster to do what that guy did, but leaving at that is a rather lazy approach.

[BootinUp]

38. The problem with that MM tweet

is that it makes no effort whatsoever to put things into context. Its a mind numbingly simpleton view of the world. He's entitled to his opinions of course. But usually he comes off a little more intelligent.

[niyad]

40. perhaps there was more than one tweet. on the other hand, some people understood very well

what he was saying.

[tblue]

47. I usually like what he says.

But he needs to make his point much clearer and less callous and flippant. Our govt does inspire retribution against us in too many instances. But there are ways to make that point tastefully. This murder wasn't this victim's fault. Michael, dude, Take 2!

[backscatter712]

41. Aww, you poor baby. How dare Michael Moore be snarky! n/t

[Logical]

42. Nice hit and run post! n-t

[Electric Monk]

76. Totally, unless he brought a sockpuppet. Does TXleigh like cjeek dgg too? nt

[Rex]

89. Look he is talking to ME!

I guess he came back to talk just to me and nobody else because I am special.

[Skip Intro]

87. No.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2902278

btw, I like most of your posts, Logical...not this one, but most of them

[Logical]

88. OK, fair enough. My bad! n-t

[geek tragedy]

43. Truly ignorant post by Moore.

This was not a Yemeni killing Americans, it was Brits killing Brits.

Unless Moore thinks dark-skinned Muslims are 'them' and white English speakers are 'us.'

[HangOnKids]

49. Derp dude he is just talking about people killing people especially those who think their killing is

JUSTIFIED. Got it now? Good.

[Cleita]

46. He was being ironic it seems. n/t

[quinnox]

50. if you read the context of the news story involing the lunatic who did this killing, Moore's tweet

is harsh but accurate commentary. The guy who hacked the soldier to death was making political statements such as that Muslims are dying all the time because of the West targeting them and he was basically saying he was doing this for revenge and retribution. That is the context of the news story.

Moore is saying we should not be surprised to see blow-back when we (the West) kill people by warfare and drones and then think it makes it all good by calling them "militants", even when many are innocent civilians.

[upi402]

52. What bothers people about Moore is

that he's not only RIGHT about issues, but is also way ahead of the curve.

[upi402]

51. Moore is neither smug nor a jerk

He has oodles of humility and serves humanity with every fiber of his being.

A blind man could see that much.

[MADem]

53. If he's talking about the London hacker, he doesn't have his facts in order.

That crazy guy was just that--CRAZY. He was a BRITISH BORN (repeat, BRITISH BORN) person of Nigerian heritage, who converted to Islam and started following a whacky Imam. Pity he hadn't focused on something else, like cricket or football or the obsessive collecting of garden gnomes.

I am no Bill Frist, but I'd be shocked if the guy didn't wind up with a 'paranoid schizophrenic' diagnosis, for starters. That fellah was just not right.

So, again.... I really don't understand Moore's "other countries" babble. I mean, really--WTF?? The man was British. He was British born, in frigging LAMBETH, London. Is Michael Moore saying that, well, he's from "other countries" and coming to kill the 'special relationship' version of "us" because his PARENTS were from another country? Sort of like Barack Obama is said by some wingnuts to be from 'another country' because his father was from Kenya?

I'm smelling a bit of ....er..... what's the word? Xenophobia? BIAS? or.... gee.... Racism?? up in here with Mister Moore...just a bit? I wonder if that guy with the knives had been a white fellah with a shaved ginger head, blue eyes, and gin blossom cheeks, looking like any old lager lout, with the EXACT SAME ACCENT.... that MM would have ranted on about "others?" And us killing people "over there?"

Where's "over there?" The East End, and not Knightsbridge?

Didn't MM listen to him? It was clear the guy was UK born and raised. He sounded like any neighborhood jerk, fachrissake. Eye fer an eye, and a toof fer a toof.., he said. Close your eyes, and you'd swear it was Sacha Baron Cohen doing a full bore "Ali G" come to lecture you about some stupid horseshit.

He's as British as the BBC, and crazy as a fookin' loon.

Unless, of course, you can be born and raised in a country, and still be called an outsider because of your skin tone....? I thought that was a GOP thing....


Meh. Michael Moore. MAJOR fail, as the kids say...

[Starry Messenger]

54. At least he can spell his name.

[defacto7]

55. He's from Flint Michigan.

What do you expect from the town that gave us Grand Funk Railroad?

[LittleBlue]

56. He's right, though

Do you expect to be able to kill a group of people with impunity?

Such arrogance.

[TXleigh]

57. More on Moore...

IMHO, he is a total hypocrite. I will always be a person who is an advocate for freedom of speech, and find his films somewhat entertaining at times, but they are just that... entertainment. I believe that documentaries should be an investigation of facts assembled in an unbiased manner. His films manipulate and selectively edit source material to use as "factual evidence" in attempts to try and "prove" his predetermined conclusions. He's really nothing more than a limousine leftist. A KIA car salesman who climbs into his BMW at the end of the day. Regardless of if you agree or disagree with any of the many controversial issues that his films tend to address, one thing that is undeniably obvious is that he does not practice what he preaches and shouldn't be considered an unbiased, trusted informant.

... Steps off soapbox...

[RandiFan1290]

58. cool story, bro

Any links to back up your bullshit?

[TXleigh]

59. Sure thing!

I didnt think that the hypocracy of making millions of dollars off of a movie that that condemns capitalism would need to be spelled out but since you are having trouble with that concept, I can try and help you out...

Capitalism
Main Entry: cap·i·tal·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈka-pə-tə-ˌliz-əm, ˈkap-tə-, British also kə-ˈpi-tə-\
Function: noun
an economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

So now that you know what capitalism is, it might be easier to grasp how the material on his website (linked below) clearly contradicts his self proclaimed ideologies. There are numerous obvious examples of this in the linked press release, but if you need them specifically pointed out after reading it, let me know and I can walk you through it.

[url]http://michaelmoore.com/words/mikes-letter/sell-buy-rebel-capitalism-love-story-out-today-dvd-and-what-wal-mart[/url]

[RandiFan1290]

67. Nice blue link

but it doesn't prove shit about anything you claim in your post.

You should watch some of his movies instead of repeating rightwing talking points.

[Ikonoklast]

75. You don't even understand what Capitalism truly is.

Michael Moore is far from being a Capitalist, he actually works for a living.

[TXleigh]

90. Wait what?

Um... What are you talking about? Despite my posting of the exact definition from the Miriam Webster dictionary, you obviously don't grasp the meaning of capitalism.

[LeftInTX]

63. I watched part of Bowling for Columbine and I was wondering if

all of his documentaries were the same.

Bowling for Columbine started out good, but then he starts going on about defense contractors, 9/11, Timothy McVeigh etc. He threw the kitchen sink at it.

I didn't learn anything new........

[RandiFan1290]

68. Is this a Texas thing?

You two should WATCH the movies before having such a strong opinion of them.

[LeftInTX]

72. I watched about an hour of Bowling for Columbine

As a matter of fact, at the place where it's paused they're talking about the case in Boston where the pregnant wife was murdered in her car by her husband and how they tried to frame the local AA community.

Sorry, I wish the documentary was more in depth about the issues involved in Columbine such as gun control or school bullying etc. Nothing against Michael Moore personally or what he stands for. I've seen him as a guest on Larry King and I've been impressed with him.

As a matter of fact, I'm usually very supportive of Michael Moore. I just feel the presentation in this particular documentary isn't getting the main point across. However, this is my own personal opinion.

[Rex]

60. Tweet fail.

It happens.

[CBGLuthier]

61. I like MM a lot. But this is an asshole move.

As if snark helps one fucking thing.

[Marr]

62. Is it Make Shit Up to Attack a Liberal Day or something?

"MM all but pledges solidarity with the guy."

Huh?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2893135

[nomorenomore08]

65. How is he a "jerk" for pointing out that the U.S. and U.K. governments' foreign policy endangers

us all? To me that's a self-evident fact, and it's why I've always differed with the Obama Administration on foreign-policy issues, even when I've agreed with him/them on other stuff. Simply put, a hawkish foreign policy makes the world more dangerous for all of us, Westerners and Middle Easterners both.

[marmar]

66. 'And a smug MM all but pledges solidarity with the guy'

That statement jumps two sharks and a blue whale.

[CJCRANE]

73. I understand his point but...

I think there is something else going on with those guys in London (and possibly the Boston bombers).

IMO there must be some kind of hypnotic effect in the jihadi videos and propaganda.

[On the Road]

78. You Have to be REALLY Careful Wading into This Territory

It can come perilously close to siding with the enemy, and will certainly be used that way by your opponents.

Personally, I agree with the basic point. Retribution should not be shocking -- it should be expected. This is part of the equation any country must go through in deciding on military action against a foreign group. Part of the solution is stopping the cause.

[Rex]

82. Ever thought about coming back and talking to the people

ever so curious to talk to you?

[Skip Intro]

83. I stated an opinion. Not much left for me to say.

I can understand that some want to argue, but I don't.

Hard for me to believe such concepts are too difficult to grasp by any DUer, so I assume those whose who accuse me of "hit and run" posts only want to argue, and, as I said, I really ain't looking for that.

It's an opinion, take it or leave it.

[Rex]

84. So you don't like to debate about anything you say around here

got it. Have a great day then. Take it or leave it.

[Skip Intro]

86. See. What is that? I said no such thing yet you say I did.

And the proof is right there above your post for anyone to see.

Why do you try to twist my words into meaning something they obviously do not mean?

Besides, those who seem to have a problem with me posting this opinion and then moving on seem to be the ones who attack me personally, clearly not interested in the topic at hand.

So what are you talking about?