"Morally Straight" --- Really?.....

[global1]

I'm 64 y/o now and can still recite the Boy Scout Oath. Some of my fondest memories of my childhood were my days as a Boy Scout.

In my days as a scout - I recited the Boy Scout Oath hundreds of times.

Today as I was driving around running errands - I was listening to the radio and heard the announcement that the BSA removed the ban on gay Boy Scouts.

The talking head on the radio that was speaking to this issue mentioned the Boy Scout Oath and the line in the oath were it says - 'morally straight'. He indicated that this was in the oath because of the Boy Scouts of America's bias against gays.

Never once did I question or even have an inkling that this is what it meant.

To me 'morally straight' was being an 'honest' person - upstanding, truthful and having morals/scruples.

Really? - all the time they really meant - not being gay?

Any other former Boy Scouts out there care to weigh in on this?

[Canuckistanian]

1. "Straight" hasn't always had it's current meaning

It's a relatively new meaning when applied to sexual orientation. It probably didn't have that meaning when you were a scout.

[morningfog]

2. I never thought it meant that. Are they striking it form the oath now?

[The Magistrate]

3. That Was My Understanding Of It, Sir, Back Then

[RKP5637]

4. I never heard of it in that context. I was very active in scouting, in

fact back then, the gay, never even came to mind in our troop or council. Our scoutmaster explained it in the same context as you ... "... 'morally straight' was being an 'honest' person - upstanding, truthful and having morals/scruples."

[Journeyman]

5. The Scouts themselves say those words in the oath mean. . .

To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance.

The Meaning of the Boy Scout Oath

Copyright 1998

http://www.usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsoath.asp


Something like this is what I always interpreted it to mean. But then, I was never a Boy Scout. Couldn't get past the Cub Scout days. (And, by the way, I'm 58.)

[TlalocW]

6. I never got past my second badge

But opponents to gays in the BSA are trying to use the word straight in two ways
1. With a relatively new definition of the word where it means, "Not gay"
Or
2. Claiming that if you're gay then you can't be a moral person

I know I never thought of straight as not gay for the little time I was in Cub Scouts and said the pledge.

TlalocW

[d_r]

7. Thats not what it means

there were some folks at our council roundtable that argued that allowing gay members was against the oath because of that line, but it isn't what it means. It means honest, ethical. It doesn't mean "straight" in terms of sexuality.

[uppityperson]

8. 20 yrs ago we were told that was what it meant, being moral meant being hetero.

We had an argument with the head scout leader about it, he said just don't tell anyone but then you are lying and not morally straight. That the term meant a lot of things, including heterosexual. My son had a great troop leader who could not care less about sexual orientation, but as they got older it became more apparent and was talked about. So he dropped out as could not support it any more.

[rightsideout]

9. I agree

Here is something interesting. My wife got an email from the local district council today saying that discussion of the gay decision will not be allowed on the Council's LinkedIn page until the Moderator allows it and then he will heavily moderate it. I thought that was interesting.

When I was in Scouts I don't even recall sexual orientation being discussed or an issue at all. It hasn't been discussed in my son's troop. If sex was discussed in my scouting days it was mostly crude jokes during campouts. LOL.

Today, the emphasis on adult leader training is to prevent abuse. Parent volunteers and adult leaders all have to take online training to prevent situations that could cause an issue. No adult leader, at anytime, is allowed to be with a kid alone. There must always be at least two adult leaders on any outing. And when kids work with an adult another adult has to be within sight.

I recall the old days, my parents dropped me off at a merit badge counselor's home, then pick me up. When I was an Assistant Scout Master I often took the troop on campouts myself. So I was the only adult leader. That would be unheard of today.

I really don't know what to think of the gay thing with scouting. It was never an issue when I was active in Scouting. I had considered turning in my Eagle Award in defiance of the gay thing but I don't really feel too strongly about it to do that.

So in answer to your question "morally straight" had nothing to do with sexual preference when I was in scouts. I had never even thought of it that way back then.

As it turns out it won't really be an issue for our family either way. My son has hated scouts from the beginning despite my wife's efforts to keep him interested. He finally quit this week. He refused to go on the last campout and didn't go to tonight's meeting. I was only in scouts because my Dad was Scoutmaster. I had no choice but to get my Eagle. So I decided if I had kids I wouldn't push it on them. My son isn't into it all.

[RKP5637]

14. My experience in scouting was very similar to yours. I am also an Eagle

Scout. None of the visceral discussions about gay/straight/bi or anything came up when I was a scout, except as you mentioned, the occasional crude jokes.

I was also alone with adult leaders many many times, never an issue with anything. I had a great time in scouting ... was lucky to have an incredible scoutmaster and council, a lodge in the woods and a great remote campground and lake. Those were very formative years for me and I often think back to my scouting days for guidance today.

Religion never came up either. Our troop was protestant sponsored, our scoutmaster a catholic, and religion never came up ... mostly all focus for us was on being a decent human being, thinking of others and trying to make good decisions.

Our scoutmaster was single, so the old gossip bitties like in most small towns always had to spread a rumor he was a queer or whatever. God I really hate old gossip bitties like that.

[Art_from_Ark]

10. I don't remember anything about pledging to be "morally straight"

The version I remember was "I promise, to do my duty, to God and my country". The end.

[moondust]

11. Scout Oath was adopted in 1911.

I doubt that "morally straight" was a reference to sexual orientation in those days, or even as late as the 70s-80s.

[Tien1985]

12. When I was younger

(I'm 27 now, so not too long ago), "morally straight" didn't mean Herero--but they were saying you couldn't be a moral person if you were gay. I think it's worse than just saying "you need to be straight".

[Nine]

13. Radio announcer was simply wrong.

Not a boy scout (or girl scout), but I know something about words. As others have said, "straight" did not have the meaning of heterosexual when that was written. Your original interpretation was accurate.

[trof]

15. 72 year old former Scout here. No, I never interpreted it that way either.

It meant being truthful, responsible, not cheating, etc.
We sure didn't think much about sex, if at all, back then.

One guy in my troop we thought was somewhat effeminate - VERY neat and meticulous about his person and appearance, didn't like to get dirty or roughhouse.
I don't remember that we teased him. That was just the personality he had.
For all I know the guy was straight as an arrow.

But yes, 'straight' and 'gay' didn't have the same meanings back then.

[cliffordu]

16. in the 70's being straight meant you didn't get high.

[markpkessinger]

17. I was a scout in the '70s . . .

. . . I'm 52 now. And even then, 'morally straight was not in any way interpreted as being about sexual mores. We interpreted it exactly the way you did: honest, a "straight shooter," morally upright, etc.

[YeahSureRight]

18. I was in the scouts in the 60's and 70's and in the scouts I

had the following firsts:

First time I saw porn mags was on a camping trip with the scouts.

First time I masturbated was on a camping trip with the scouts.

First time I got drunk was on a camping trip with the scouts.

First time I smoked was on a camping trip with the scouts.

First time I got laid was on a camping trip with the scouts, big trip to a state park and Girl Scouts were in one area and we were in another, the leaders thought we were far enough apart but teens being teens some how we all managed to get together at night.


I even helped old ladies across the street, but morally straight, I doubt it, BSA is where I learned how to have immoral fun!