Vatican: 100,000 Christians are killed every year for their faith

[Playinghardball]

A top Vatican official has said around 100,000 Christians are killed every year for reasons linked to their faith and pointed to the Middle East, Africa and Asia as the biggest problem areas.

Monsignor Silvano Maria Tomasi was quoted by Vatican radio on Tuesday as saying that the figures were “shocking” and “incredible”.

Tomasi said Christians were also forced to leave their homes and see their churches destroyed in some parts of the world, and were often subjected to rapes, kidnappings and discrimination.

The Vatican official made particular reference to the kidnapping of two Orthodox bishops near Aleppo in Syria last month.

Religious freedom is beset by “sectarianism, intolerance, terrorism and exclusionary laws,” he said, while also pointing to exceptions like Bangladesh where he said rights are protected.

Another senior Vatican figure, the secretary of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, Mario Toso, said recently that discrimination against Christians “should be countered in the same way as anti-Semitism and Islamophobia”.


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/28/vatican-100000-christians-are-killed-every-year-for-their-faith/

[bowens43]

1. another reason to dump 'faith'......

[hrmjustin]

3. They should dump their faith because they might get killed for it? I think not!

People should have the fundamental right to worship freely without fear of violence!

[BainsBane]

28. That's right. They should conform to be just like you

If they want to live. FFS.

[hrmjustin]

30. Some of the responses in this thread are just insane!

[BainsBane]

31. It shows that too many people are intolerant

of those who differ form themselves. Whatever excuses they come up with, it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Religious intolerance, homophobia, racism, and sexism all come from the same impulse; only the justifications differ.

[alp227]

47. "Religious intolerance, homophobia, racism, and sexism all come from the same impulse"

I am an atheist, so this statement is rather questionable, it implies that not believing in god makes you (as a stupid internet meme puts it) a Naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.

[BainsBane]

48. No

Last edited Wed May 29, 2013, 01:26 AM - Edit history (1)

Intolerance is intolerance. Bigotry against non-religious or religious people, including Jews, is the same as bigotry against an ethnic group. It has nothing to do with your belief in God. It has to do with whether or not you recognize that others have a right to be different from you. People always believe they have rights. Whether they extend those rights to those who differ from themselves is a matter of character and humanity.

Murder is murder, and genocide is genocide. The Holocaust was a genocide against a religious group, Jews (and others). If there were to be a future genocide of Christians, it would be no less horrific.

[alp227]

68. I believe in the 1st amendment, and I don't like organized religion.

Do I have the right to be personally intolerant of religion?

[BainsBane]

71. You can be personally intolerant of anyone you want

gays, women, African Americans, Hispanics, and/or Jews, Christians, and Muslims. The constitution protects your right to be intolerant of the religious just as it protects the Klan, as long as you don't act on your views in legally discriminatory or violent ways.

[pipi_k]

89. So I wonder how

this works when we're talking about political beliefs, which is just as much a choice as religious beliefs are.

People can't change who they are, but they sure as hell can change what they believe.

So when I see people here at DU bashing Republicans (or even Liberals bashing Moderate Democrats/vice versa), I do wonder why some beliefs are OK to bash but others aren't.

Double standards?

[BainsBane]

90. If you suggest legal discrimination or murder

or someone because they disagree with you politically, that would suggest a profound lack of humanity. Religion and political beliefs, however, are not the same. People are born into religions, and religious identity is liked to ethnicity.

You are free to petition to get rid of the First and Fourteenth Amendments if you don't like then.

[pipi_k]

95. I'm not talking about

murder.

You mentioned "intolerance".

That word involves a whole lot of other behaviors besides murder.

People here are intolerant of lots of things, and they are generally relegated to the DU version of the garbage pit of humanity by virtue of the fact that they express intolerant viewpoints.

Religion and politics are absolutely the same.

A person chooses what to believe (religion, politics). A person can change his beliefs, whereas he cannot change his sex or color or ethnicity.

Religious beliefs are treated with kid gloves. Political beliefs are fodder for ridicule.

There is a clear double standard.

[BainsBane]

104. False

You assume the entire world is like the US. It is not. If religion were so easy to change, why wouldn't all Syrians become the dominant Alawite religion? Why would Jews in Germany simply not have become Christian and spared themselves being targeted for genocide? Why wouldn't Christians in Egypt simply convert to Islam and become part of the dominant religion? Why would the Irish not have converted to Protestantism in the face of centuries of persecution by the British? Why would indigenous and African religions survive in Latin America despise centuries of efforts to change that? Not everyone is born into a society where acquisition of wealth and continual militarism is more important than place and family. In most of the world, people are born into religions and stay that way.

Religious beliefs most certainly are not treated with kid gloves. People on this site continually scorn religious-ethnic groups that differ from their own. Any thread about the Middle East makes that evident.

Bear in mind I am not talking about criticism of religious institutions and their leadership that involve themselves in the politics. That is fair game and quite different from intolerance toward religious persons.

People invent all kinds of justifications to consider themselves superior to others. That is what bigotry is about. In another era those here who now target the religious would have targeted African Americans or gay people. It comes from the same impulse--a desire to proclaim oneself superior and demean others. It is reprehensible, however one seeks to justified it. I will not condone any form of bigotry. I have nothing but contempt for such views.

.

[dembotoz]

2. 100,000???? sound like some creative accounting to me

[hrmjustin]

5. I would love to know how they came up with the number.

[byeya]

20. Sheeeit! Mah cousin kills a couple dozen of them each year; 'specially thems that comes to the

cabin door

[hrmjustin]

21. Um not very funny!

[temporary311]

51. Right. Everyone knows

the proper way to kill Christians is to feed em to the lions.

[hrmjustin]

52. Ah sure whatever.

[defacto7]

72. Divine hubris.

[brooklynite]

4. Nice to know the Catholic Church is opposed to rape...

...wonder if it'll rub off.

[JNelson6563]

6. Sadly the different religions

can't just choose a corner of the world to call their own and leave everyone else alone.

So I guess we'll just have them continue killing each other in the name of their own particular gods.

Julie

[Bluenorthwest]

7. What sort of people can have 100k of their own murdered and make their priority

to attack others? I don't belive Tomasi at all, if they had any deaths among them they'd not spend time railing that gay people are attacking their God.
Are they really so heartless that their priority is their perception of a speck in my eye and not piles of bodies of their own members? I hardly think so.

[MineralMan]

8. Does the Vatican know how many people worldwide were killed BY Christians?

That would be an interesting number to see.

[hrmjustin]

10. That would be a thing I would like to know.

[el_bryanto]

12. Well - would you make a distinction between military members who happened to be Christians

or people killing in the name of Christ? One number would be considerably larger.

Bryant

[defacto7]

73. Does their number include Christians killed by acts of God?

[burnodo]

82. +71

[trotsky]

102. Zero.

Because as we all know, No True Christian would kill someone.

[Apophis]

9. I'm assuming those numbers were pulled out of his ass?

[dembotoz]

15. would that be his holy ass or an ass with a hole in it.

[hrmjustin]

11. If they are going to give a number like this they should explain how they got the number.

I have no doubt that thousands of Christians die each year just for the crime of being a Christian. Religious freedom is a right!

[el_bryanto]

13. Its maybe a minor thing, but this is another example of lazy shitty reporting.

Here's a link ( http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/28/vatican_to_un:_100_thousand_christians_killed_for_the_faith_each_year/en1-696232 ) to Vatican Radio with the text of his remarks. Someone should ask Monsignor Tomasi where he got that number. Make him either back it up or admit that it's BS.

Bryant

[hrmjustin]

14. I would not doubt a 20,000-50,000 number but 100,000 seems like he picked it out of a hat.

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. It seems to be a continuation of a claim of 105,000 that was made in 2011

I suspect it came from this:
http://it.radiovaticana.va/storico/2012/12/26/105_mila_i_cristiani_uccisi_nel_2012_per_la_loro_fede._intervista_/it1-650683
Translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fit.radiovaticana.va%2Fnews%2F2012%2F12%2F26%2F105_mila_i_cristiani_uccisi_nel_2012_per_la_loro_fede._intervista_a_in%2Fit1-650683
From June 2011:

Every year 105,000 Christians are killed because of their faith.

This shocking figure was disclosed by Italian sociologist Massimo Introvigne, representative of the OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) on Combating Intolerance and Discrimination against Christians, at the “International Conference on Inter-religious dialogue between Christians, Jews and Muslims,” sponsored the Hungarian presidency of the European Union (EU) in Gödöllo, near Budapest.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=10555

In the Dec 2012 interview, he seems to credit the figure to "the center" that David Barrett "founded and directed" until he died in 2011. This appears to be what is published each year in the International Bulletin of Missionary Research, as 'martyrs per year', which they say they work out as an average over the previous 10 years.

In 2001, Barrett and his colleague Todd M. Johnson started collecting statistics on martyrs. In their seminal work World Christian Trends AD 30 – AD 2200 (Pasadena: William Carey Library, 2001), they assessed that up to the year 2000 there had been some 70 million Christian martyrs, of which 45 million were concentrated in the 20th century. The book explained the methodology used, and defined Christian martyrs as «believers in Christ who have lost their lives prematurely, in situation of witnesses, as a result of human hostility». Being «in situation of witnesses», the authors explained, means that one can become a martyr «consciously or unconsciously». They counted as Christian martyrs those killed because of their status of «Christian believers» ascribed to them by those who killed them, irrespective of whether they were at the time of their killing «actively proclaiming» the faith. But the count did exclude those killed for national, ethnic or political reasons who just happened to be Christian but were not killed because of their being Christian.

Again, statistics is a very contentious field but the book, although not without critics, is still widely respected and quoted in the academia. After their book, Barrett and Johnson have constantly updated their statistics about martyrs. In their last update, “Christianity 2011: Martyrs and the Resurgence of Religion”, published in the issue for January 2011 (vol. 35, n. 1) of their International Bulletin of Missionary Research, they noted that the number of Christian martyrs per year peaked at around 160,000 in the year 2000 because of local situations, including in Sudan. Since conditions in Sudan and elsewhere became subsequently less dramatic, their «confident» estimate for the year 2010 is of 100,000 Christian martyrs. They also expect the figure of 100,000 to be substantially replicated in 2011.

http://www.cesnur.org/2011/mi-cri-en.html

This statistic appears to be linked with the "Center for the Study of Global Christianity"
http://www.gordonconwell.edu/resources/CSGC-Resources.cfm
In January 2013, they again said '100,000': http://www.gordonconwell.edu/resources/documents/StatusOfGlobalMission.pdf

There's an article on their historical figures here: http://www.gordonconwell.edu/resources/documents/WCT_Martyrs_Extract.pdf
but I can't find anything about how they guessed the modern day figures (they claimed 160,000 in 2000).

[hrmjustin]

39. Thanks for posting this! It appears he had an agenda so the numbers are seem inflated.

But some of the responses in this thread baffle me.

[pipi_k]

91. Or, like someone else suggested...

out of his ass.

How convenient for him, also, that there were exactly 100,000 killed.

Not 127,843 or 101,989


PS...we demand to know the names of the victims!!!!!

[hrmjustin]

92. Well I can't give you those names but people do get killed for their religious beliefs everyday.

[pipi_k]

96. They do, but...

it's unsporting, at the very least, to claim a specific, conveniently rounded off number, without providing a list of the alleged exactly 100,000 victims.

[hrmjustin]

97. Oh I agree.

[Dawson Leery]

16. The Persecutor(Vatican) is playing the victim again.

By the way, how many indigenous people's did the Roman Catholic Church persecute?
How many people were murdered/tortured by the Roman Catholic Church during the Crusades and Thirty Years War?

[Dawson Leery]

17. There are some old line Orthodox Christians who have been attacked recently

by Islamic fundamentalists(Syria/Egypt). Since when did the RCC care about the well being of other lines of (proper) Christianity?

[hrmjustin]

25. Coptics and the RCC have had good relations recently.

[closeupready]

18. Oh, nonsense. Phony numbers from those who burned Galileo

at the stake, figuratively.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

19. Horseshit! ((Cough))

[The Magistrate]

22. The Figures Are Indeed, Sir, 'Incredible' And 'Shocking'

They have no credibility at all, and it is a shock to realize he actually thought this would be believed....

[cliffordu]

23. Aren't Martyrs supposed to go right to heaven?

Is t that a good thing??

[hrmjustin]

24. Being killed for your faith is not a good thing!!!

[arely staircase]

27. that comment is beneath you

I am skeptical of these numbers but that isn't a cool thing to say.

[cliffordu]

32. No it ain't beneath me. Little is. False pride ain't my sin.

Martyrs become Saints.

[arely staircase]

33. that is your personal belief or

are you cynically saying "well they should have no trouble being killed"

if it is the latter it is beneath you, whether you think so or not.

[cliffordu]

43. If folks believed they are saved for all eternity, the sting of death means nothing.

Jesus his own bad self did it, martyred for all YOUR sins.

Don't the Beatitudes say something about this?

Oh, yeah -

(Bless) "...those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Around the third century, it was all the rage to 'witness' and then be 'martyred'

In the olden times, the word 'to witness' and 'martyr' were pretty much identical. In very olden times. Weird but true.

Loads of folks still adhere to these ideas of faith.

And, as I said, little is beneath me.

This ain't

[arely staircase]

45. doesn't make murder right

nt

[hrmjustin]

46. Christians do not purposely look to get themselves killed.

Yes people are martyred for their faith all the time but it is not a something looked for. The Christians that die today for their faith are in areas where they are being driven from there homes.

[MichiganVote]

26. So um, how many kids were/are abused annually b/c of their faith?

And while we're at it, how many people leave/have left the church annually because they have no faith the church is protective?

[BainsBane]

29. How about supporting human rights regardless

of religious affiliation?

[MichiganVote]

34. I think that the RCC has called itself a victim far too many times

The RCC's support of human rights has been ambiguous for centuries. Sure, they'll talk about socio-economic rights, genuflect and spread some parish money among the missionaries. So what? Other religious organizations do the same. The RCC does not support women's rights other than by its own creed. It supposedly supports LGBT so long as they deny their sexuality and 'do not practice'. And it denies its own gift of communion to those who have divorced.

I remember the sermons regarding Catholics as martyrs for their faith throughout my entire Catholic upbringing. I just don't recall any honesty about the martyrs of the church's hypocrisy, the kids and young adults abused by derelicts the RCC protected.

I'm not holding my breath.

[BainsBane]

37. So that means you have no problem with the murder of Catholics?

Because you don't like the Church?

[cliffordu]

44. Kinda not what people are saying,

but don't let that get in your way.

[MichiganVote]

49. Yeah that seems to sum it up for you. But I doubt others will agree with you.

Including me.

[Le Taz Hot]

79. And how about starting

with the Catholic Church? Let's see, they hate women, they hate gays, they COOPERATED with the Nazi's because they hated Jews . . . And that's not even touching the DECADES of pedophile priests they PROTECTED while further victimizing innocents who were left to deal with the devastation on their own. The Catholic Church is dying a slow death solely from their own internal corruption and inability to change with the times.

[hrmjustin]

35. Can't we all agree that no matter what the number that Christians like people of other faiths

are being killed for their faith and that is a bad thing. Some of the posts here I just do not understand at all.

[The Straight Story]

36. It's called hate, and it is ok when directed at some

If I say a bunch of fundie christians are influencing government policy...cheers for bringing out that info and people lamenting it. Say the same about another religious group - and you are promoting hate (I won't say which religious group because that would bring out people saying I am a hater).


Say something about Muslims being killed over their faith? For shame and how terrible that people would do such a thing.

Want to hate on a group? There is one that we liberals and progressive can jump on without feeling guilt or feeling like we are the same as the RW and what they say. Christians. Bash, hate em, call em out, ignore any good they have done in the world and have at em.

Because, like black people and muslims to the rw, what some do is representative of them all.

We just get to claim it is all ok when we do it though because we don't 'hate' we just bring up things negative about a group whenever possible.

[arely staircase]

41. thank you

nt

[hrmjustin]

42. Very true!

[cordelia]

81. Well said, and true.

[leftynyc]

80. This is DU

where it's perfectly ok to dump all over Christianity all day, every day. But don't dare point out the problems with Islam - that makes you an intolerant, hateful Islamophobe. It's pathetic.

[pipi_k]

98. One thing I don't

understand...

martyrs.

Religious martyrs.

If people get killed for things they can't do anything about, that's one thing. They don't have a choice in the matter.


But I don't, and never will, understand why people will DIE for something nobody can prove.

God...if there is or isn't one.

How best to worship a god nobody can prove even exists.

Religion, IMO, sucks.

And it sucks even more when people think only they have the golden key to Paradise.

[hrmjustin]

99. I would not deny Christ even if it meant my death!

[pipi_k]

105. Well OK then...

but I still don't understand it.

I understand dying for one's friend(s) or family.

But not for some guy I never even knew who may or may not have been a magician on the order of Houdini or David Copperfield.

Or, worse, on the word of people who thought they saw huge miracles like holy images in slices of bread or in oil stains in their driveways.

Worst of all is the attempted manipulation by people who think I owe Jesus something because Jesus allegedly died for MY sins. I never asked him to. Had he asked me, I would have said, "Don't bother".

Anyway, it's not for me to tell people what to die for. I just don't understand what I call misplaced loyalty.

[hrmjustin]

107. Faith is hard to explain and all I can say is I believe in Jesus with all my heart.

[closeupready]

111. Would you deny Christ if, in theory, someone else's life was on the line?

Just curious, thanks.

[hrmjustin]

113. I don't know! I might just say what I have to, to save anothers life. I think God would not be angry

over it. But in the end I do not know what I would do.

[closeupready]

114. Thanks.

Interesting to reflect on.

[trotsky]

106. I think we can agree on that.

But it does register on the irony meter that they're generally being killed for their faith by members of other faiths, or - not too shockingly - members of their very own faith (Christians of another sect or denomination).

[hrmjustin]

108. Yes so called religous people that love God so much that they have to kill someone to show

how much they love God. Sickening!

[trotsky]

109. Nothing "so-called" about them.

They are religious, too. They are members of their respective faiths. Otherwise what you're basically saying is that any believer who commits a horrible act is really an atheist, because only atheists could do evil things.

And I know you would never say that.

[hrmjustin]

112. No I am not saying that they are atheists. My apologies for not being clear.

They are religious extremists.

[treestar]

40. It happens, but that sounds like an awful lot

[rug]

50. The source of this number is the sociologist Massimo Introvigne.

The Italian Foreign Ministry established an Observatory for Religious Freedom and Introvigne released this report at the end of 2012.

http://www.religiousfreedom.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=605:italy-observatory-on-religious-freedom&catid=64:europe

It was reported on but I haven't found the report itself.

http://canadiancouncilforreligiousfreedom.com/2013/01/08/in-2012-105000-christians-have-died-for-their-faith/

[closeupready]

53. It's funny to see how support for minorities and the downtrodden,

which is the body politic that constitutes the traditional constituency of the Democratic Party, is called out here as (essentially) hypocrisy, and yet, call the Catholic Church on its lies and propaganda in the service of the advancement of its anti-humanistic agenda, those same people wag their fingers and say 'Shame on you!' LOL

Yes, in today's world, Muslims and Jews are (still) minorities, and Catholics are in positions of power (surprise, surprise). So forgive us (former or current Catholics) if we are suspicious of a hierarchical priesthood that has not always had the best of intentions, and has sometimes outright lied.

[hrmjustin]

55. I thought that there were just as many Muslims as there are Christians.

Not liking the church is not what I have issue with. I was just taken aback by some response that seem to pass off the fact that Christians get killed. Yes the 100,000 number may be suspect but there are thousands that get killed every year.

[closeupready]

60. "thousands [of Christians] get killed every year" - how do you know that?

Do you take it on 'faith'? Or do you have data, you know, science, to back up that claim?

[hrmjustin]

61. Syria, Nigeria, Iraq, Egypt.

Just read the international pages of your newspapers. 2 Bishops were kidnapped in Syria. Look at the situation in Nigeria. Ever heard of Coptic Christians? They flee Egypt because they get killed and nobody does anything.

Ever hear of the bombing of churches throughout Iraq.

[closeupready]

62. If that's what you think is science, your faith does

you a disservice. Ask Galileo.

Moving on to intelligent discussion...

[hrmjustin]

63. I never agreed with the 100,000 number. more likely 10,000-20,000 a year.

Does it bother you that Christians are killed for their faith?

[closeupready]

64. Yes, it does bother me that religionists are killed for their beliefs.

Whether Christian or Muslim or Wiccans. Very much.

However, you have yet to provide the data supporting any of the numbers you present here. Even 10,000 seems high. On occasion, you'll read a story about a Shia mosque in Iraq being carbombed. Last I checked, Shia's actually are muslim, not Christian. Yet, you seem to attempt to claim those deaths as Christian, or else, you really believe when you see a story about such things, it doesn't matter if the target was a mosque or a church - the target was, in fact, a church (even if it was a mosque).

In other words, how exactly do you account for even your lowest estimate of 10,000 Christian deaths? Lets make this easy - account for just 1,000; can you do that?

[hrmjustin]

65. Unfortunately there are no hard numbers from Nigeria or any other of these countries.

But just because I personally can not link every death does not mean it happens.

And on many occasions Iraqi churches have been bombed. Christians have fled the middle east because their lives are in danger all the time.

[arely staircase]

66. it doesn't seem to bother some around here

I have been really disappointed by a DUr I have enjoyed reading for a long time. I think the 100,000 number seems high too. but:

Q&A: Pakistan's controversial blasphemy lawsContinue reading the main story

Pakistan's blasphemy laws carry a potential death sentence for anyone who insults Islam. Critics say they have been used to persecute minority faiths.

What are the recent controversies?

The laws have been contentious since the formation of Pakistan in 1947, but attention in recent months has been focused on a teenage girl with learning difficulties, known as Rimsha, who was accused of desecrating the Koran. An imam was later arrested for allegedly planting evidence. Another prominent case is that of Christian mother-of-five Asia Bibi, sentenced to death in November 2010 for insulting the Prophet Muhammad.

The following January Punjab Governor Salman Taseer - a prominent critic of the law - was assassinated by his bodyguard. The assassination divided Pakistan, with some hailing his killer as a hero.

In March 2011 Religious Minorities Minister Shahbaz Bhatti, a Christian who spoke out against the laws, was shot dead in Islamabad.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12621225

[hrmjustin]

67. Some people think persecution of Christians is only a minor problem but it is dangerous to be

Christian in many places on this earth.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

54. I'm thinking

I have to challenge those numbers. Just sayin'...................

[dimbear]

56. Rephrased to 100,000 Christians died in sectarian conflicts, prepared to believe it.

Nigeria has to have a pretty high score on that basis.

[Warpy]

57. I might buy a tenth that amount

because it's usually big news when Christians get attacked in other parts of the world and some are killed.

100,000? No way. I wonder whose arse that number came out of.

[jazzimov]

58. Is that in the US?

I keep hearing that Christianity is being suppressed in the US, how many were killed here?

[hrmjustin]

59. 100,000 is a high number. But Christians as Muslims die for their faith in Asia and Africa the most.

[Bluenorthwest]

93. If Christians are being killed for their faith in Africa, why are many African Christians

focused on attacking gay people physically and with the law? Shouldn't they focus on saving the lives of their own people?

[hrmjustin]

94. I wish they would stop with the Anti-gay stuff. It breaks my heart that many of these anti-gay

Christians are Anglicans. But the fact is that sectarian strife is rampant in Nigeria and other pasts of the continent.

[Zoeisright]

69. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!!

Uh huh. Pull the other one.

[hrmjustin]

70. I agree the numbers are too high. But the issue is a serious one. People of all faiths everyday for

their beliefs.

[defacto7]

74. So if people toss their faith and stop believing in things that don't exist

will they stop killing each other?

[hrmjustin]

85. No I think they would still kill one another if they gave up their faith.

[Skittles]

76. I really wish people did not feel the need to set themselves apart in such groups

[Egalitarian Thug]

77. Killed by other fools that are just as certain that their delusions are reality. n/t

[burnodo]

83. I'd still love to see some hard data

People killed specifically because they believe certain things.

[closeupready]

84. Me, too - and I've asked and asked and asked, but

no stats are forthcoming - it's just, apparently, some number pulled out of a hat, from a random bunch of six-figure numbers (because, I suppose, six-figure numbers are startlingly high when talking in terms of human mortality, but not so high as to prompt widespread demands for proof).

I can do that - anyone can.

[hrmjustin]

86. I agree that they certainly can be numbers pulled out of a hat.

The fact is it is very hard to track this stuff. Just like it is hard t track the deaths of those who die because they are Muslims. I suspect in the end you were right that the numbers are are much lower. But they do exist. I am sorry I could provide no links because many of the orgs that do keep track of this tend to be right wing and I don't want to use them a sources because I don't trust their numbers.

[closeupready]

87. No need for apologies - we are having an adult discussion, and

I take no offense at disagreement with my beliefs. I welcome it, in fact, since it makes me go back and doublecheck that my beliefs are grounded in reality, not emotion or dogma.

Cheers.

[hrmjustin]

88. Hugs!!!

[Egalitarian Thug]

75. Oh my, another religious zealot lying. Who would have believed it?

[gordianot]

78. It is good to know they keep statistics, some other numbers I am curious about from the Vatican.

I take it this is exclusive to Catholics when they quote Christians.

How many children are molested by clergy?
How many use birth control?
How many Christians die due to hunger and lack of medical care?
How many Nazis did the Church shield?

[Comrade Grumpy]

100. Not DU's finest hour.

I am not a Catholic, or even a believer of any sort, and I understand the concerns people have with Catholicism and/or the hierarchy in general, but it just seems like we have a lot of haters here.

[Tom Ripley]

101. That's a lot of cannibal pots!

Sorry, I was raised on New Yorker cartoons

[Vinnie From Indy]

103. If you are going to make stuff up why not say a bajillion?

eom

[datasuspect]

110. at least they don't feed them to lions anymore

or make them be gladiator bait.

[The Straight Story]

115. Kill a jew - anti-semetic. Kill 1000 or more christians and we hear "Yeah, but..."

Face it - there are some here who think Christians have it coming to them just like the right says Muslims have it coming to them.

Only, on here, we get all bent out of shape for some groups but can easily foster hate towards another one (while complaining they foster hate and we are telling them it is wrong....).

I could post a ton of stories today about what some muslims are doing and make sure to point out their faith - and the reaction would be one of two things:

1. Christians do it too!
2. Why are you spreading hate and fear based on what some in a faith do?

There are sucky ass Christians and have posted many threads over the years about some of them (Like Pat Robertson) and no one ever questions the motive for posting such. Post the same Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc and folks want to know why you are trying rile them up and get them to 'hate' a group.

And Christians are targeted in certain parts of the world:

AFP - Thousands of angry protesters on Saturday set ablaze more than 100 houses of Pakistani Christians over a blasphemy row in the eastern city of Lahore, officials said.

But hey, Pat Robertson is a jerk so those people there had it coming and even if they didn't, how the hell can they complain when some other Christians did bad things?