Hudson Falls teen pleads guilty in statutory rape case

[TransitJohn]

FORT EDWARD -- A 19-year-old Hudson Falls man pleaded guilty last week in Washington County Court to a felony charge of second-degree rape, officials said.

Michael Smith admitted having sex with a child under the age of 15 last fall, according to the Washington County District Attorney's Office. He was not accused of physically forcing the teen to have sex, but the charge was brought because she was too young to legally consent.

Smith likely faces a sentence of 6 months in Washington County Jail and 10 years on probation when sentenced May 30 by Washington County Judge Kelly McKeighan. He will also have to register as a sex offender.

Hudson Falls Police investigated the case.

http://poststar.com/news/blotter/hudson-falls-teen-pleads-guilty-in-statutory-rape-case/article_aa6cfda2-c06c-11e2-8088-0019bb2963f4.html

[MrSlayer]

1. But he wasn't in High School.

So clearly he's a rapist. If he were, it would be fine.

That's the logic thrown around here lately.

[loli phabay]

2. no difference between the two cases.

[Honeycombe8]

3. True enough. A 19 yr old doesn't HAVE to rape a 14 yr old....

if he's wily enough to be persuasive. It's not so hard for an adult to persuade or manipulate a child into doing something. That's one reason these older guys go after the young girls, and that's why there are legal protections for them (the children).

[liberal_at_heart]

10. exactly.

[pnwmom]

55. delete

[dsc]

4. society treats those in high school differently than those who aren't in high school

maybe it shouldn't but it does.

[TransitJohn]

5. Well then how about this one? Perp was in high school.

Tylertown High School Student charged with statutory rape

TYLERTOWN, MS (WDAM) - An 18 year old Tylertown High School student was arrested Tuesday afternoon and charged with statutory rape.

James Raiford was arrested by a school resource officer after school officials confirmed the incident occurred after viewing a video surveillance camera playback.

The Walthall County Sheriff's office said a teacher overheard other kids who knew about the incident talking about and she reported it the office.

Raiford was taken to the Walthall County Jail. His bond was set at $100,000.

http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/15473450/tyler

[TransitJohn]

6. Another one for your perusal.

http://cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=18949

A Columbus High School student was arrested yesterday and charged with one count of statutory rape.



Jonquil Veonquez Laquinshay Ball, 18, of 325 17th St. N, was taken into custody Thursday morning at the high school and arrested at the police department after questioning.



In the state of Mississippi, statutory rape is defined as when a person 17 years of age or older has sexual intercourse with a child who is at least 14 but under 16 years of age, is 36-or-more months younger than the person and is not the person's spouse. It is also defined as a person of any age who has sexual intercourse with a child who is under the age of 14 and is not the person's spouse.



It is still considered statutory rape regardless of whether the victim gave consent.



Municipal Court judge Nicole Clinkscales issued a bond of $5,000.



Ball's court date is set for Nov. 1.

[TransitJohn]

8. Yet another

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/07/29/2229381/broughton-high-student-faces-statutory.html

RALEIGH — Police on Saturday charged an 18-year-old Broughton High School student with statutory rape involving a 14-year-old girl, according to a police arrest report.

De Shonte Lequan Jones of 7101 Sandy Forks Road, Apt. 2A, was charged late Saturday afternoon and ordered held on $75,000 bond.

An arrest warrant for Jones says the incident happened May 29, but gives no other details.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/07/29/2229381/broughton-high-student-faces-statutory.html#storylink=cpy

[dsc]

9. gee funny how they are all black

in a state that is about 1/3 black, but I am sure it has nothing whatsoever to do with racism, I am sure it is just one huge coincidence, just like the people of Florida finally finding a female they charge with this crime and it just so happens the victim is another female. Just a huge coincidence.

[TransitJohn]

11. Wonder why their parents didn't refuse a plea-bargain (not offered) then try to use public

opinion to influence the prosecution?

[dsc]

12. you have no earthly idea what they did or didn't do

nor do I for that matter, but you have no idea what was or wasn't offered to them or what they did or didn't accept.

[Honeycombe8]

20. Are you saying they don't investigate reports by white girls? Only black girls?

Isn't that reverse racism?

[dsc]

21. I wonder if all the girls were white

[Honeycombe8]

23. Not on your boopy. IMO, your concern should be for the black girl, not the black guy.

And the white girl who has been assaulted. It's not about the man. It's about RAPE. A child is incapable of consenting.

If a white girl or her parents report it, or a black girl or her parents report it, I have no doubt that it's investigated by law enforcement, and the man is picked up and charged, if there's enough evidence. I doubt they take the reports by black girls more seriously, as you suggest.

[dsc]

24. the fact is I think nice looking, white, rich boys don't end up in prison for this

nearly as often as thuggish looking black kids who aren't rich. I think you would search long and hard indeed to find a white lawyer's son under arrest for this.

[Captain Stern]

44. But if he'd flunked a grade, he would be in high school...

....doesn't that mean he's still in the same peer group? That means it's all good.

[liberal_at_heart]

7. good. He should get jail time.

[Luminous Animal]

14. I don't agree. There has got to be a better way to deal with these youth's raging

hormones and the consequences. I am 99.99% sure that the girl (and possibly the parents) do not want this youth to go to jail AND be branded a sex offender for the rest of his life.

A young woman that I know was a 14 year old girl when she started dating a 19 year old young man. Both sets of parents disapproved. The mother of the girl (very close to me), not only adamantly forbade the relationship but both sets of parents stepped up to the plate and communicated with each other and the youths, to make it perfectly clear, that the relationship was unacceptable and illegal as well. My friend an evening/night manager of a bar & restaurant and a single mom of 3 kids (the girl being the youngest) grounded her which resulted in her sneaking out, not only to meet her boyfriend but acting out in general - she started drinking and doing mild drugs.

The mom employed "spies". The girl's older siblings and trusted friends to track her daughter's movements so that when she snuck out, the mom would leave work to go drag the girl home.

It was a horrible horrible year which resulted in the mom losing her job (too many times leaving work to go rescue her daughter) and the girl trying to commit a coma inducing suicide. In the end, the exhausted parents agreed to let the relationship go forward (at the time, 15 and 20 years old).

[Honeycombe8]

22. Again, your concern seems to be for the man whose "hormones are raging." Boys will be boys?

IMO, the concern should be for the minor. That's what the law was passed to protect: the minor.

A 19 year old man should know at the outset that he could go to prison and be branded a sex offender if he goes after a minor. A 14 year old girl is legally incapable of consenting to sex.

If his hormones are raging so much, he needs to find someone who can legally assist him with his hormone problem. Going after a youngster is NOT the answer. So says the law, and I agree with it.

There's a reason he's going after someone who is not capable of deciding for herself. Control and manipulation. HE will make the decisions. HE will decide when and where they have sex. HE will decide what happens if she gets pregnant. It's all about him. Unless the law steps in.

A 19 year old man should go to jail if he goes after a minor. It's that simple. Her PARENTS are in control of the minor. That's why she's called a minor.

If he's in love, they can get married, he can set about a lifelong commitment of supporting her and any children that come about as a result of his "raging hormones."

[davidpdx]

32. That's not what LA said

She said youths as in expressing concern for both sexes.

In terms of the male, what I believe LA was saying (and I agree with) is not that he shouldn't be punished in some way, but not in as harsh of a manner. The punishment should be in proportion to the crime. Throwing him in prison (and I guarantee you it will be prison not jail as you stated) at the age of 19 will only put him with other criminals who have done committed much worse crimes. As a sex offender he would probably be raped (I bet you like that). When he does get out, he's on parole for how ever many years which is required and has to register as a sex offender for life. Now you have a young black male who has a felony on his record, branded a sex offender and have his picture posted on a website and where he lives (if he can find a place). Who is going to hire him? The answer is virtually no one. Chances are there will be no rehabilitation in prison (those programs have been cut by many states).

But as you say, why should we feel sorry for him?

[Luminous Animal]

42. No. My post was about the girl's raging hormones.

[Honeycombe8]

52. 14 year old girls do not have raging hormones. But 19 year old men do.

A woman's/girl's hormones reach their peak many years later...in her 30's or something. A man's hormones hit their raging peak at about 18 to 25.

[Luminous Animal]

53. You have got to be kidding.

[Honeycombe8]

57. Nope. Look it up. You've never noticed that?

Don't know if you're female or not, but surely you noticed that your orgasms hit their height in your late 20's and into your 30's. There's a hormonal reason for that.

Men hit that height in the 18-25 age range.

This is not opinion. It's biology. Look it up.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

56. this comment is about as stupid is Todd Akin's missive

My God. . .where did you get your science and sociology? A crackerjack box??/

[Honeycombe8]

58. You can't be that uninformed about biology, can you? It's a biological fact. Look it up.

That's not an opinion. Geez....I took it for granted that others read up on biology as much as I did, since I didn't do that much of it. But I sure as heck read about this. It's a common knowledge thing. Not necessary you're a scientist to know this.

Women's hormones hit their height at a much later stage than men. Men hit their height in the late teens to early 20's (the height of their testosterone levels). Women - much later. That's one argument used for the older woman/younger man coupling.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

59. So my female students aren't sex crazed like the boys are?

Again, where is your logic?

And I sit next to the biology teacher in my International School. PhD from UC-Davis. . .gave me a "what kind of idiocy is that" look and said "hormone levels do not influence urges."

[Honeycombe8]

60. Don't argue with the messenger. Argue with science. Look it up. It's true. nt

[Nanjing to Seoul]

61. I did. The biologist I spoke to with the PhD from UC Davis says you're full of crap

[Egalitarian Thug]

17. How very liberal.

[liberal_at_heart]

31. I was a victim of statutory rape so I don't give a damn if you think I'm liberal or not.

A 14 year old cannot give consent therefore it is rape and the 19 year old should go to jail. But thank you so much for your concern over whether or not very young teenage girls get raped or not.

[Nye Bevan]

13. I'm sure there will be about fifty DU threads calling for that guy to be freed.

Won't there? After all, both partners were teenagers.

[Ms. Toad]

27. If that is all you got from the other threads, you weren't paying attention.

And, we don't even know that much in each of the cases, and we don't know other relevant information in any of them. Except as noted we don't know in any of the cases posted:

(1) the age of both people involved (in one case we know the girl was 14)
(2) the grade of both people involved
(3) whether they were romantically involved
(4) whether there was force involved (in one case it says there was no physical force - which is not the same as no force), and the other reports linked in this thread don't address it at all.

I don't think high school romances which become sexual should be criminal matters merely because of the age of the participants. But I don't know what the situation is in any of these cases. Force (as long as it is wasn't physical force) is consistent with every report in this thread as of the time I'm posting this comment.

So none of these (as currently reported) are analogous to the Kaitlyn Hunt case. If it turns out they are if/when there is a more complete report, my position is the same. It should not be a criminal matter.

[liberal_at_heart]

28. force was involved. a 14 year old cannot consent. The 14 year old was raped.

[Ms. Toad]

34. Legal presumptions and reality don't always match.

In Mississippi it is impossible for a women to be raped by her husband unless he forcibly penetrates her against her will.

So - a woman given a date rape drug by her husband and who then has sex with her unconscious body is consenting. After all, the law is the law - and whatever it says about consent must be right.

Hmm...thought not.

[davidpdx]

33. See #32 above

Especially before you flap your mouth.

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. Bueller? Bueller?

Kinda quiet.

[BainsBane]

15. Truthfully, I think this is a double standard

about female perpetrators.

[Ms. Toad]

29. You might want to carefully read the report.

Does it identify the grades of the participants? One could easily be in middle school and the other already have graduated from high school - a very different dynamic than two kids in the same school.

Does it identify the age of the girl? The ages could easily be 13 & 19, two years farther apart than Kaitlyn Hunt and her girlfriend.

Does it rule out that the sexual activity was forced? All it says is that there was not physical force.

Does it indicate the two were romantically involved? It says nothing about the relationship between the two.

[BainsBane]

30. The age spread is the same

She is female and a lesbian. He is male and straight, and African American on top of it.
I can't see what grade has to do with it. No law species such a thing. That's what people here have invented. There is long-standing minimization of statutory rape by females in this country.

[davidpdx]

35. The age difference is most likely larger

The article says the girl was under 15, which means she may have been 12, 13, or 14. Given it's a small town, publishing her age would narrow down who the victim is which is why it wasn't given. Whether he was 18 or 19 last fall we also don't know. The age difference could be anywhere from as great as 7 years to as close as 4.

My point is you are making assumptions off of very little information when you compare this case to the other.

[Ms. Toad]

37. We don't know the age spread.

The report says he is 19. It does not give her age, except "teen," (i.e at least 13) and a recitation of the law (under the age of 15 - so anywhere from 0-14).

So putting the two together, the younger participant was 13 or 15, and the age spread could easily 6 years.

It does not say the teen was a willing participant - it only says that there was not physical force involved. Consent is not merely the absence of physical force.

And what I have consistently been addressing is how I believe the law should be written, not how it is.

I do agree that people tend to minimize the impact of female on male rape. What I disagree about is whether the people who believe that high school romances should not be criminalized take a different position when it is between two women, two men, an older woman and a younger man, or an older man and a younger woman. My position is certainly the same in all those situations.

[BainsBane]

38. consent is the whole principal of statutory rape

The idea behind the law is that a young person is not mature enough to consent to sex. So the idea of consent in this case is really problematic. Yes, there is little info about this particular perpetrator, but these kinds of cases are charged against men all the time.

[Ms. Toad]

40. And I think in high school settings I think the law is wrong.

I'm actually not sure there are very many cases of heterosexual high school romances which became sexual which result in criminal charges - they are far too commonplace. I saw tons of them when I was a teacher, and at least a handful as my daughter went through a much smaller high school.

As to the idea behind the law - in most states which have similar statutes, it is perfectly legal for a 13 year old 9th grader to have sex with a 17 year old senior. Same age spread - and the 9th grader is even younger. The only difference is the older participant has not yet passed the magic age. So the laws don't really address whether the person is mature enough to consent - they just draw arbitrary magic lines.

A far less arbitrary way to draw lines is to draw them where the schools do. If you're hanging out together 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, you are likely to create friendships which don't necessarily pay any attention to the calendar. Some of those friendships are likely to become sexual. If that is an issue for the parents (and it should be, in my opinion at least for the younger teens), the parents need to figure out how to set and enforce dating and other rules for their child until the time the child is old enough (in their estimation) to become sexually active. They are much more likely to be able to make good judgments about their child's maturity than an arbitrary date on a calendar.

And - the schools need to figure out how to set and enforce rules about behavior at school events and on property.

[BainsBane]

41. I don't think that's a workable solution

I really don't see the distinction that you do about their being in school together. They could be in a swim club together, a choir, or work together. School isn't the own way that people form peer groups.

[Ms. Toad]

43. It is the primary place where teens meet others and form relationships.

It is where they spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. It is also where they are required by law to be.

I'm really struggling to understand how so many members of DU seem to have sprung full grown without passing through high school. I have experience with four high schools - my own, my daughter's, and the one where I did my student teaching, and the one where I taught in for 11 years. One about 300 students primarily rural all white, one about 450 students and suburban mostly white, one about 500 students and a very diverse population in almost every way imaginable, and one about 2800, inner city - 100% minority.

They all worked pretty much the same way. I can identify 9th grade-12th grade romances in each of them, and only one in which I am not absolutely certain those relationships were sexual. And I'm not aware of any instance in which anyone really cared (certainly not in any statutory rape sense).

[Ms. Toad]

48. None of the cases in this thread

provide enough information for me to tell whether the police really are charging men in situations like the Hunt case. If these few cases are the best people have come up with in a week of searching, it really doesn't make the case that men in similar circumstances are being charged all the time.

And as to the law having the final say on consent - if you buy that the law defines consent, then you need to accept that for all cases of consent in rape. In Mississippi (and more than a half dozen other states), a wife consents at the moment of marriage to providing sex at the husband's whim (and some of them - like some of the statutory rape laws) are gender specific. In those states, consent may only be withdrawn when the husband physically forces sex on the wife - or uses violence. In Mississippi, drugging your wife and then having sex with her while she is unconscious is not treated as physical force or violence.

So - since the law is so wise on consent and we cannot question it, we must also accept that it is wise as to what constitutes consent in all rape cases.

I certainly hope the DU members who are falling back on "it's the law" would question whether that Mississippi (and the laws still on the books in more than a half dozen other states) on marital rape are right. And if one law on consent in rape could be wrong - they all can. So the idea of consent in high school romances is not problematic to me - the law is.

[davidpdx]

47. Don't expect her to walk back her false analogy, nor will anyone else that has made the same one

Sometimes logic just doesn't stick.

[Ms. Toad]

49. I agree with you, generally

There are way too many people here who seem to have forgotten what it is like to be a teenager, and have sprung full blown into perfect decision making - and any imperfection in teenage reasoning is criminal, even when it is a couple of kids in love.

The statutes are designed to protect kids from predators, not to make criminals out of high school romances - and they need to be fixed so they don't catch cases like the Hunt case, but they still do catch predators.

These conversations have led me to adding a couple folks to my Ignore list - kind of surprising since I haven't had anyone on Ignore other than a couple I carried over from DU2 who I took off almost immediately. Bit I was getting to the point where I was at risk of saying things I might later regret - so temporarily I just don't see those folks. After these discussions die down I'll probably take them off Ignore.

But Bainsbane and I have actually had some reasonable conversations on the topic - and I don't mind differences of opinion and exploring the prickly points in an issue.

[unreadierLizard]

16. You do realize

that this kid(and yes, he is still a kid)'s life is ruined now because of the RSO status? But hey, a woman does the same thing and there's an outcry for her to be freed.

[etherealtruth]

26. Here is what I posted May 27 on this issue

I sure as hell am NOT OK with adults having sex with underage kids. NOT ever. I don't give a shit about the gender of the adult (it IS irrelevant), I don't give a shit about the sexual orientation of the adult predator (it IS irrelevant).

I do NOT care that someone's relative was married" at 14 (or 13 ... or whatever) . it does not make it right!

Posted May 27 @ 8:59

[In_The_Wind]

18. A 19 year old should not be having sex with a 14 year old.

[Iggo]

19. ...

...

[NaturalHigh]

25. Where are all the "Free Michael" bracelets?

What about the "Free Michael" posts, for that matter?

[davidpdx]

36. See post #35

You are making the same faulty assumption as Bainesbaine made.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

45. "Under 15" is unspecific.

Taking advantage of a nominally willing 14-year-old at 19 might potentially only be a shortish jail term, or conceivably even a non-custodial sentence (although that would be an extreme case, I think). Any younger should mean a much harsher one, as should any pressure placed on the victim.

[davidpdx]

54. Which is the point I was making above

We don't know the age of the victim. She could have been 12, 13, or 14. The guy who was convicted was 19, but when he turned 19 we also don't know. He could have been 19 when this took place. Most likely it is a larger age difference.

[B Calm]

46. Sick bastard belongs in jail!

[Shankapotomus]

50. This is why I think

all teenagers should be required to live the lonely life of a "nerd" (no offense intended) until they're 18. Let them get used to being alone so they will appreciate that having access to other people beyond their immediate family is a luxury and responsibility, not a right to be selfishly abused. Too many kids (and adults) think others are a resource to be exploited and it leads to scenarios where people are not respected and valued.

I think troubled kids who are influenced by the negative behaviors of their peers would benefit from just being alone. There is so much interaction going on between kids, it naturally will get out of hand because, after all, they are kids. They need more time alone to discover who they are, become centered and not rely on interaction with others and the approval or disapproval of misguided peers to create and drive their identity.

[gollygee]

51. I still say

that there's a difference between being out of high school and trolling high schools looking for young girls, and two people who are in the school band or on a school sports team together and develop feelings for each other.

Also, we don't know if the girl in this case is 14, 13, or 12. It is a larger age spread.

I really think the answer is to establish "romeo/juliet" laws with a 4-year spread so that kids who go to high school together aren't hit by statutory rape laws. But I do think statutory rape laws in general are a good idea.