I wonder if one of the main reasons for MSNBC's poor ratings is due to

[monmouth3]

Morning Joe. I'm up early in the morning and suffer through the Bill Karins inane comments on whatever, and then MJ comes on. This is when people are prepping for work, maybe have it on while getting ready even if only in the background. Nasty right-wing propaganda is what that show has devolved into and people shut it off and don't go back. Rachel didn't have a good month but there was other programming that may have caught viewers interest. I don't know. Chris Matthews is on when many arrive home from work, you either have the stomach for him or you switch to another channel and don't go back.

What I'm saying is that MJ pretty much sets the tone for the daily programming. Mika acting so shocked when Dr. Dean called out right-wing propaganda. She was "shocked." Puhleeze, give me a break and then Willy in all of his wisdom saying that Dr. Dean should go on de-caff for the rest of the morning. I'm done with MJ and to tell the truth I don't turn it back on..

[NightWatcher]

1. Or maybe most normal people don't want to wallow in it all day like most Faux viewers

It's not healthy to watch the news all day, much less political back and forth. On the abnormal side of things, many Faux viewers like to have their tv scream at them all day long. They need the fear and loathing repeated all day like a cult brain washing.

[1-Old-Man]

2. Why would anyone want to begin their day by filling their head with garbage?

and as for Rachel, her show always has three topics that she always spends 20 minutes apiece on, no matter what else is going on in the world or how many days in a row she has covered exactly the same thing. In fact if you listen to the first five minutes of the her program you will hear exactly the same things said again in the next five minutes, and then again in the next five minutes, and then again in the final five minutes of the 20 that each topic gets.

They got rid of Keith, they got rid of Ed, and they keep Tweety. Is there any question as to why they aren't at the top of the heap?

[monmouth3]

3. Tweety has become the "grandfathered uncle" to many on that show. They wouldn't

dare get rid of him. I think he has pictures to tell the truth..

[RKP5637]

29. Yep, agree!!! n/t

[okaawhatever]

4. I agree to some extent with the MJ analysis. Also, they need to stop defensive journalism and

start with the offensive journalism. I'm sure there are some gotp skeletons hiding in closets that need to come out. Also the evening line up does need a stronger anchor as they mention. I feel like all the evening shows say about the same thing.

[Soundman]

5. Here may be another reason.

MSNBC is not part of Dish Networks basic programming package. Our programming runs about 69 a month which includes HBO. I can't remember which package we have but is not the lowest one. At any rate it does NOT include MSNBC which I think sucks. I have to imagine there are millions of subscribers that don't even have the option to watch.

[monmouth3]

6. You make a good point. I have DirectTV that is included with my rent. We don't have a lot of

options but the price is right..

[Soundman]

7. Is MSNBC included with Direct? n/t

[monmouth3]

8. Yes..

[SoCalDem]

54. and Fox is in more "tiers" for less money

[Fla Dem]

68. I have Comcast and had to upgrade to get MSNBC

and even with the upgrade I don't get Current. I go to a gym that has Fox on 24/7. I'm sure a lot of other similar establishments that have tv's on all day also show FOX. Heck, I had jury dury in my county and the waiting room had FOX. I asked them to change the channel. I got a dirty look, but they did change it to CNN.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. It might be a certain amount of burnout.

I mean, how much complaining about one GOP outrage after another can one stand? The GOPers thrive on hate and can't get enough of Hannity and O'Reilly and those other tools constantly ranting about how evil Obama and the Democrats are. But I think most of us liberals are interested in hearing actual news and not just Al Sharpton bloviating or Ed Schultz ranting or Rachel Maddow and Chris Hayes wonking or Lawrence O'Donnell pontificating. And a just a little tiny dose of Chris Matthews goes a very, very long way.

Before the election I often watched MSNBC all evening to find out the details of what was going on because all these shows had good interviews and interesting material. Now, not so much. If something is actually going on I'll tune in to at least some of those shows (except that I avoid Hairball like the plague) because I can trust them - particularly Maddow - to be factually accurate. But I am really tired of - burned out on, you might say - unproductive and repetitive discussions about how the GOP sucks. Yes, they suck. They suck hard enough to bend light. I know this even without watching five hours of MSNBC every day, and it depresses me. So unless there's some hot news (which I can find on DU and elsewhere on the internet), I watch something else, or nothing at all.

[monmouth3]

11. Burnout is a good reason. I agree, unless there is something really pending in the news or

breaking I go to something else.

[Ilsa]

16. I posted in the other ratings thread that

this is why I don't watch much any more: burnout. The election last year wore me down with all of the lying, manipulations, and whining. It all left me feeling hopeless. So I turned off the political shows, for now, and discovered my days are more pleasant.

I stopped watching MJ because Mika is a pushover and tool.

[tularetom]

28. There's a LOT of burnout on my part (my wife, too)

Anything I need to know I can find out right here on DU. And I can judge for myself how to react to what I learn. I don't need to have my information filtered through some talking head. I rarely watch MSNBC at all anymore and I see very little chance that anything will make me start watching again. I can get good talk radio on my computer or phone so it makes it easy for me to skip TV entirely.

That said, getting rid of Ed Schultz was a pretty dumb move. It not only hurt their ratings in that hour but it hurt the Maddow show by depriving her of a strong lead in.

[RKP5637]

32. Yep, I get tired of all of the political BS in the US, the wallowing in it, and

sooo much stupidity in the US ... and the brain dead teabaggers and the like, and layered on religious nonsense from some. I use DU for much of my news, as well as Google News. I also get the NYT feeds, etc. I'll watch NBC evening news, etc., but I'm not the news show junkie I used to be. It gets depressing, and IMO most of the problems the US has are self-generated. I also think of much of congress as damn fools ... so, I just try to get the highlights off DU for the most part.

[Prism]

10. The Howard Stern effect

Half of Fox's viewers are there for confirmation of their biases. The other half watch because they cannot stand it. If it weren't for the liberal blogosphere and forums like DU, I would have no idea what Fox is doing.

Sometimes I feel like the only Democrat who isn't watching Fox.

Same with Morning Joe. People are always complaining about it, but it doesn't stop them from watching.

I like Rachel, but she's been deadly dull and repetitive. Cannot stand Laurence O. I can download Party talking points online if I'd like.

Morning Joe and Fox aren't juggernauts all by themselves. We help them an awful lot.

[Egalitarian Thug]

12. Try not watching any TV and following DU, or any conversation in America for that matter. n/t

[monmouth3]

13. My TV is off all day unless TCM has a good movie on..LOL..nt

[Egalitarian Thug]

18. The commercials were a big part of my decision. The programming was bad enough,

but the commercial's assumptions of total ignorance and mindless conformity on the part of their audience were so insulting I just couldn't take it anymore. That was about a decade ago and I think it has only become worse. We watch movies and have even watched a couple of series that people recommended.

The internet has certainly been a game changer and eventually producers will figure out that they can't stop it.

[Ligyron]

61. THIS ^^^

[Prism]

17. I don't watch any television news

The Internet keeps me informed just fine. Get a news aggregator and sift.

Although sometimes I come late to things like many criminal trials that people seem to be following. I still don't know what Jody Arias (sp) did.

But that sort of thing I can live without.

[RainDog]

25. Democracy Now! is worth watching

but you can watch it online.

Chris Matthews, the kid of that guy...never watched him...anyway, the nepotism in that... the Fox News females who are so stupid you want to retch...

who needs or wants that shit?

I'm certainly not going to pay for it.

[Egalitarian Thug]

26. Me either and I haven't cared enough to search.

If it's Big News! I find that it is nearly always a distraction of no relevance to anybody not directly involved.

[DeltaLitProf]

14. I'd broaden the coverage

Liberals are interested in much more than the political. If I were running MSNBC, I'd instruct the staffs of the shows to cover more cultural (and not just pop cultural), artistic, scientific and business-oriented material.

[monmouth3]

15. I'd like to see some in-depth coverage on Monsanto...Corp won't allow it I'm sure..n/t

[marions ghost]

65. Good point--more cultural, yes.

---------

[backscatter712]

19. It may also be Comcast and other cable providers refusal to put it in the basic tier.

You have to upgrade to get MSNBC, but FAUX and CNN are in basic.

[Shankapotomus]

20. I think it might be because

MSNBC News is not varied enough. It's all politics and no straight news. There's no world news show. And I read that it was the jody arias show trial and the "Obama scandals" that killed MSNBC in May. The culture seems to have an obsession with show trials and don't think that bodes well for it digesting detailed analysis such as Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow. . MSNBC just aired an ad for the jody arias trial so I guess they are changing their strategy already. I don't regard show trials as entertainment and won't watch them.

[Pragdem]

21. The majority of people just don't care about political news in a non-election year.

They want disaster porn.

[Jennicut]

34. This. 2012 was good for them but we all have burnout.

Rachel/Lawrence is about all I catch. I am watching Cartoon Network with my 7 year old right now and I actually prefer that to depressing news these days.

[apples and oranges]

22. I mentioned this is another thread. Chris Matthews sets the tone for evening viewers, and

Morning Joe sets the tone for morning viewers. Disgusted viewers like myself end up turning the shit off for the whole day to avoid RW-lite commentary.

[monmouth3]

23. Exactly..That's me....n/t

[RainDog]

24. a lot of people are sick of tv "news"

and are ditching their cable entirely.

older and more conservative people are less likely to do this - so they will be the ones who care about tv news crap.

more and more, people just don't want to waste money on being fed propaganda. if you're not a sports fan, you don't miss cable. sports are what makes cable so expensive in the first place, so let sports fans and coots have cable.

The revolution will not be televised.

It's going on by ditching the bullshit media on tv.

[corkhead]

31. what you said

[marions ghost]

66. Agree

It feels like propaganda.

I think Hayes and Maddow try hard to dig for the big picture implications, but covering Washington is so depressing that they have a tough job making it anything you want to ingest every day. I watch them once or twice a week where I used to watch more. When I do watch, I think they're doing the best they can with what they've got and I always get something out of it. We are just not hearing enough good news for our side. We are witnessing the incredibly arrogant power grabs of an un-checked corporatocracy.

Losing Ed is definitely a factor, maybe because he was so "liberally biased." He gave many people hope.

Yeah I think burnout is a factor. But it's burnout on doing the vigil for democracy more than anything.

[madrchsod]

27. nope it was big ed leaving......

[monmouth3]

30. I do miss him. He was a firebrand..n/t

[tapermaker]

33. I work from home making bamboo fishing rods .

My tv. is on permanently and i watch msnbc from 6;00 am to 8;00pm non stop. I avoid the "cycle" by working in my shop during their show.My reality seems fine compared to my brother who runs a storage facility and sits at home watching fox all day. when we get together to argue he constantly tells me i live in a fatasy world. He was so shell shocked by my prediction of an Obama landslideHe couldnt wrap his head around the fact that my reality is really whats real.

[leftynyc]

56. I know what you mean

I have a colleague in our Charlotte office who is a devout fox news viewer (and gun nut) and she laughed at me - literally laughed in my face - when I told her 2 weeks before the election that Pres Obama was going to win. She was convinced the polls were skewed and was looking forward to rubbing my face in an Romney landslide. I just smiled and said I would speak to her the day after - my quiet confidence drove her insane.

[MotherPetrie]

35. I think viewership is down because many Democrats are demoralized again.

[ThomThom]

36. some of us have turned off TV news completely

Their poor performance in the past has made us less inclined to tune in at all.
We get much better information online than any network puts out. Why bother with commercials and all the bullshit.

[Raine]

37. Ed leaving M-F did it for me. The only one I watch now is Al

during the week. I really miss Ed but I got back my time, that's for sure.

[Honeycombe8]

45. Same here. Except I don't watch Al...I'm still at work when he's on. I watch Tweety. nt

[northoftheborder]

38. I feel exactly like most of you; sick of television "news", even the good guys. I record a lot of..

...things I want to watch later, mostly PBS, a few cable shows, the sports which I follow, fill in with Netflix. Just a huge mess of "nothing", TV is, at the least, and disgusting untruths at the worst.

[chowder66]

39. DC Republicans aren't changing so the news isn't either.

If the Republicans would actually start whistling a different tune then maybe there would be something worth paying attention to.

[JI7]

40. they will go up again when political news dominates again

[Seeking Serenity]

42. True.

Not everyone's into "all politics, all the time."

I know I get politics weary.

[Corruption Inc]

41. The M$M sells products, sales = ratings to them

Perhaps a lot of intelligent democratic voters have had it with M$M lies altogether, regardless of what the sales demographic of any particular program is?

[DonCoquixote]

43. If Msnbc is going after the Non Fox audience

They need to stop showing someone who would fit right in at Fox News, and that goes beyond Joe Scab, but includes Chuckie Todd and Chris Matthews. If theyw ere smart, they would go to the Current TV lineup and say "hey, Cenk, Stephanie, Bill, we know Al jazzeera is on the way to kick you out, want a spot?

[Honeycombe8]

44. I think MJ is the #1 show in the mornings. I'm unaware of MSNBC having poor ratings.

Does it?

[lindysalsagal]

46. Faux gets 100% of the wing-nuts.Normal people are split between all 4 other networks.

So, if you add up abc, nbc, cbs, msnbc, they dwarf faux.

If they had another lying, despicable choice, their numbers would be divided, too.

[HiPointDem]

47. all the political shows, on both sides of the aisle, are demagogic crap. they don't educate,

they don't inform, they don't make people better citizens.

they make them stupid and polarized.

[liberal from boston]

67. MSNBC RATINGS

This is much ado about nothing. Remember Fox ratings were in free fall after the election. This is a busy time for families -- w/graduations, end of school activities, moving college kids out of dorms, etc. I disagree that the programs do not inform or educate. IMO, Lawrence O'Donnell is a must see program in my house. Last night he had a segment on the Tesla Motors paying off the US Government Loan 9 years early. Viewers had commented that they had not heard of this & it was an impressive success story of US Business manufacturing electric cars in Fremont California. A comment was posted on DU by CaliDem praising Lawrence as being the lone voice about the language of the IRS tax exempt law. I always look forward to the Rewrite portion of his program. The Last Word is fast paced, informative & entertaining.

[rl6214]

48. I really don't think that it affects the evening programming

And what people watch. Mika does irritate the shift out of me though.

[csziggy]

49. One reason I watch less MSNBC is the clips of right wing nuts they play

Nearly every day at least one of the programs will have clips of Beck, Limbaugh, or some right wing nut politician or spokesperson on. If I wanted to watch that crap, I'd be over on Faux Noise. The MSNBC hosts could just tell me what the morons are saying, but I refuse to listen to most of those right wing whackos. So I change the channel and more often than not never go back.

I do agree with you about Morning Joe - he's just another right wing nut in my book. And many days I can't take Chris Matthews.

I like Tamron Hall, but she's now sandwiched between Andrea Mitchell and The Cycle, two shows I avoid. I like Rev. Al, but he's stuck in between Matthews' shows. I do like Chris Hayes, Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell, but they are most guilty about my main complaint above.

[yellowwoodII]

50. It's Not on Basic Cable

I have Comcast basic cable plan. Can't get MSNBC on it. Otherwise, I might watch it, especially Rachel Maddow.

[graham4anything]

51. I think people all over are tired of the media (tv, radio, press, alt/regular, etc.)

Liberals have never needed a Fox like echo chamber, and political talk is dropping all over in total cume

I for one as I have said, only listen to Al Sharpton and none of the others.

I would be in favor of all of it disappearing from tv/radio if it means we can get rid of Fox.

Liberals don't need spin.
Liberals can watch a debate or a State of the union and not need one little bit of interpretation.

For instance, I did not need spin to tell me President Obama roped the dopes at the first debate.
(of which only people that night or next morning who I heard on media agree with me were Al Sharpton the night of the debate,
and President David Palmer of TV, Dennis Haysbert the next morning on a morning show.

That debate night, Rachel and Ed lost me forever. No longer do I care one iota one word they say.
They might as well have been working for Fox, and they were in 100% agreement with Joe Scar.
So, who needs them? I surely don't.

I know Al Gore won all 3 debates, though the media said otherwise.

So no talk would be better than all talk.
Political radio/tv is hurting the country and is as proven dangerous.

Liberals don't need it.

We can think by ourselves

Right wing propaganda? Hey, it's 99% rightwing propaganda.

People always assumed CNN in its heyday was liberal because compared to Fox, it was.
Yet, Bernard Shaw did more to make Mike Dukakis lose than any other person in the 1988 race.

[kaiden]

52. It is also warmer weather.

My husband and I sit outside with wine and cheese after work now, instead of going straight to the family room to turn in the television. After a winter of angst, it is nice to take a break.

[Firebrand Gary]

53. This morning MJ brought on Matt Lewis from the Daily Caller.

I was shocked...

I have not watched MJ in 6 months, yet I've tuned in the last two mornings. So apparently Joe and Mika are now giving validation to right wing media propaganda. Those are my words, not Deans.

I've had a front seat, by that I mean that I have been under the constant borage of the National Review and the Daily Caller's endless storm of bullshit. I worked on a very high profile Congressional Campaign and these two entities harassed our office with some of the most radical, insensitive and provocative actions. Plain and simple, it was harassment.

Screw those bastards, I don't give a damn what they say or print. Dean was right, I hope MJ ratings continue their downward spiral. They deserve it for validating people like Eric Erickson and Matt Lewis.

At this point I've no doubt that if Breitbart were still here, they be validating his crazy ass too.

[One of the 99]

55. Joe and Mika always

gave validation to right wing propaganda. It has been their SOP for years.

[GoneFishin]

57. I went to Current TV when Keith Olberman departed from MSNBC.

I think MSNBC hosts are limited as to who they can target, and how aggressive they can be. I like Rachael Maddow a lot, but I noticed that she lost a bit of her edge as she grew in prominence on MSNBC. Now I watch the Young Turks on Current, and they pretty much take off the gloves as required.

Rejecting Lucrative Offer, Cenk Uygur Leaves MSNBC After Being Told to "Act Like An Insider""
"He said Griffin had called him into his office in April and told him he had been talking to people in Washington, and that they did not like Uygur's tone. "
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/democracy-now/cenk-uygur-leaves-msnbc_b_906708.html

[w8liftinglady]

69. So did I, and now I watch Link TV and free Speech TV

to get my news.

https://www.freespeech.org/

http://www.linktv.org/

[Bohunk68]

58. I agree with many of the reasons stated above.

I've gotten into watching Link TV instead, some Current TV. Cenk and Fogelsang. Can't stomach Tweety, the Mandibular Masturbator or Scab/Mika. So, Link is for me. Like Deutche Welle, alJazeera, Mosaic and esp. Democracy Now. Awhile back, while watching my pastor's kids, I got hooked on Avatar on NickToons. Excellent program, suitable for kids and adult kids. Once in awhile Rev. Al. I hear what everyone is saying about the rest of the MSNBC lineup. Watch one of the programs and you know what all the rest are going to be about, over and over and over again, ad nauseum. Even Rachel has gotten to be booooooooring.

[fredamae]

59. People in this country

are in financial and emotional crises. MSM doesn't "report". Period. They ignore the fast food "rolling strikes" across the country, they ignored for the most part OWS, they ignored the Monsanto Global Marches, they ignored the fear and indignation over Chained CPI, MSNBC constantly advertises FOX news by showing clips of their bs throughout the various programs and If I wanted to hear more bs from FOX? I'd fkn watch Them instead.
For the most part it's a big, giant sensationalistic, dumbing down gossip mongering system that was Once a value to "the people". It was called the Fourth Estate. It was created for us and served us as the watch dog of the govt. Today its a "corp marketing scheme" to sell RW agendas" and push austerity. trying to convince Us that this is the way to Our financial salvation-nothing more.
It would be great to see a panel of ordinary citizens sitting at their "round-table", discussing their personal experiences trying to survive that which congress has Burdened us with instead of perfectly groomed talking heads who are scripted, omitting information, ignoring issues that matter to us, while discussing shit that means nothing to most.
What the Hell did they think was going to eventually happen when you don't satisfy the hunger for Fact and Truth.
Now that someone might try to Hold the Media bs accountable for their irresponsibility and cheating the already lax media rules? They turn on them. They rarely if ever give Both sides of the story, they rarely if ever do satisfactory fully factual follow-up-IE: what the hell is going on with the EXXON spill, or Any of the Fracking disasters, spills, the effects on the West Coast from the Fukushima Quake/Radiation and even the OK tornado story has slipped by the wayside etc etc-Instead we get a "rolling stream of He Said-She Said-bs" featuring/starring Ryan, Cantor, Coburn, Inhoff, Christie, Rubio, Issa, McConnell, Boehner, Cruz, Palin, Bachmann, in the Grand Theatrical Production and they call it "news". Every couple weeks or so-they'll be a little tid-bit about Reid, the Filibuster and his systematic "threat" to "go nuclear" - lol News?? I think Not.
And not a Single one of those "Talking Head Celebrities" will Ever have to worry about health care, paying rent, putting food on the table, sending kids to college etc--they are the 1% also.
My husband and I were just talking about Shutting it All down...both of us realized we're still paying for access because we "HOPE" something of interest will come on in the future-not because we're satisfied that it already is there. We are getting ZERO return for this monthly expenditure. We are forced into an expensive package we don't want to get a couple channels we do with no individual options--screw it.
In a nutshell>
"We stand in danger of drowning in a sea of old testimony and strangling on the meager gruel of bland clichés"" OR Gov Tom McCall Circa 1971

[monmouth3]

60. Excellent..n/t

[Whisp]

63. +++

When Rachel or one of those coiffed and polished posers takes on the question of:

''Does GE, who owns your commentating asses, have any financial and/or other interests in military armaments or the state of war? Would this then reflect on what you are free to talk about in the interests of the american people? Does this colour your view of an impending war - where your bosses will be making much monies if war did happen?'

buncha phonies, All of them.

[tallahasseedem]

62. I was a loyal viewer until...

they kicked Ed off. The ratings at his slot are now at an all time low and I, for one, am not sad about it.

[pnwest]

64. We had MSNBC on all day for the last

couple years, but we've gotten so sick all the shows repeating the same stories all day, with the same talking heads, it all just became white noise. Losing Ed was another blow, we loved him and his blue collar passion. We love wonk, too, but Ed added a nice shot of fiery passion to the mix.

So, for us it was mostly the repetitiveness, and a little of the hole Ed left.