Should religious fundamentalists be treated as mentally ill?

[el_bryanto]

This is in reference to another thread - (http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2922189) which the moderators haven't had a problem with, so I assume this subject is fair game.

Of course another question is what qualifies as a religious fundamentalist; some seem to feel that any religious practice should be treated as a mental illness, while others are keen to suggest that unless you practice the most extreme version of Christianity, you aren't a real Christian, but some sort of hypocritical faker. But that question takes us into clearly religious matters, so will leave it alone.

Bryant

14 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
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	This would be a terrible idea
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[HiPointDem]

1. this would be a fascist idea.

[sibelian]

4. + 1,000,000! nt

[sufrommich]

52. So much this. nt

[hrmjustin]

62. I agree 100%

[Puzzledtraveller]

2. Never, because tables keep turning

[RKP5637]

3. For some, that is their belief system ... but for others, their

belief system is paired with some serious psychotic difficulties. It is a gray area, that's why I did a pass.

[HiPointDem]

15. you could say the same of some atheists, scientists, or anyone basically

[cordelia]

17. Exactly.

[RKP5637]

18. Yep, that is why your post #1 is so important. This paired

association could be expanded to round them all up, whomever, much as Hitler did, much as Joseph McCarthy did ... same thing in my book. And this has a twist that we will change their brains to be just like "us."

[HiPointDem]

19. it's the implication of changing brains to make them 'think right' that is disturbing. and also

the fact that nearly half of posters think it's ducky

[RKP5637]

21. Yep, and what that 1/2 doesn't get is this same logic could be

used against them. "... we WILL make them adhere to the established regime ... by the establishment of localized 'think right' mental health units. Failure to report those not thinking right will result in your imprisonment in the private prison system for the good of the country." This, is chilling, but that IS the path ... and history seems to serve as no reminder to some.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

27. ever argue with a bible beating bastard who thinks

blowing up planned parenthood centers is a great idea? I have. They honestly think that killing a nurse or a doctor is doing god's work.

Do you suggest that we ignore this class of people, when studies show that they may have a mental illness that leads them to such thoughts, words, even deeds?

[el_bryanto]

30. If someone has a mental illness it should be treated no matter what other beliefs he may have

That's not the question. The question is should religious fundamentalists - a nebulous term at best - be uniformly examined to see if they are mentally ill.

Bryant

[RKP5637]

33. No, see my response #3. n/t

[hrmjustin]

67. How are you going to determine if they are mentally ill.

[bettyellen]

73. that is always the question. many do need help - and do not believe that they do.

I have seen this up close one too many times, families already struggle with it all the time.
When we are actually in a position where people can get the help they need, many will still not.

[atreides1]

28. Not interested in changing brains

Just would prefer to get the dangerous ones off of the street...regardless of what they might profess to believe in, or not believe in.

[Puzzledtraveller]

40. What's that say about those people?

I for one do not think the Democratic party is widely represented or even filled with that mindset to any degree. So what is driving that mindset? Where will it find it's voice and home? It's my value of freedom of speech and religion that prevents me from saying we shouldn't have people like that calling themselves democrats.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

5. First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

[el_bryanto]

6. Amendments can be amended

Difficult, but possible. And if you believe religious fundamentalism to be a destructive poisonous force in America, you might believe it to be worth the effort to amend the constitution to allow this to happen.

Bryant

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

7. Good luck getting 37 states to sign off on ending freedom of religion

[el_bryanto]

9. I should be clear - i'm not in favor of it myself (I am religious myself).

I'm just commenting on how some people might feel.

Bryant

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

11. Some people are idiots

That hasn't changed since 1790.

[el_bryanto]

12. The vote here at DU is 9 for/12 against

43% of DUers so far favor treating religious fundamentalism like a mental illness.

[HiPointDem]

16. makes me wonder about the mental health of some democrats.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

25. I would like to attribute it to ignorance of our history rather than dementia

A lot of people are really in the dark about why our country exists. The conditions that led to its design.

[MattBaggins]

47. Oh here we go

You are going to feed us that nonsense about "FEEEEEDUM" rather than "MONEEEEY" being at the root of migration.

[LostOne4Ever]

20. I view

I view people trying to tear down the first amendment's seperation of church and state to be the destructive poisonous force in America. It just so happens to be religious fundamentalist who are the culprits 99% of the time.

However, this is that other 1% of the time and even if it makes me stand with those who hate atheists like myself...I will do it. Why? Because they are the worst, and if I know that even the worst have their rights protected, I know my rights will be protected.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

29. well said.

[whistler162]

8. Not a full moon

So what is the excuse this time for this idiotic thread!

[el_bryanto]

10. If you only do idiotic threads on the full moon, it's too predictable. nt

[IdaBriggs]

13. I voted "good" with a qualifier: when it interferes with health and safety.

Examples:

- if you have small children playing with poisonous reptiles in order to prove they have been "saved", and then choose not to get them medical care if they are bitten, then you have crossed over into a mental illness.

- if you decide that your faith requires you to hand children over to a pedophile, then you have crossed over into a mental illness.

- if you decide that your faith requires you to serve and/or drink poisonous kool-aid, then you have crossed over into a mental illness.

There are other examples of "stepped over the line into crazy town", but these are pretty obvious.

I have no objection to people "walking their faith" and "doing good works" even when it isn't easy, but because of core beliefs.

But the folks who destroy their families because of their "faith" -- well, is my opinion, and I think they need help. Heaven knows their victims do.

Sigh.

[el_bryanto]

14. OK

The first and third are pretty straightforward but just to be clear - the 2nd one refers to all Catholics? Or those who send their kids to Catholic schools? Or what specifically?

Bryant

[Myrina]

35. I'm guessing Warren Jeffs ...

n/t

[Pragdem]

22. Religious fundamentalists, conspiracy theorists, deniers of science, you name it.

I'm perfectly fine with it.

[el_bryanto]

23. You name it? Really? People who put their dogs in little outfits?

That creeps me out.

People who defend John Tesh on Musical grouns?

People who willingly eat Okra?

Seems like a pretty broad standard.

Bryant

[Pragdem]

24. No, but those are some funny specifics you came up with...

I deserved that for the "You name it."

Strike that from the record. I still standby the other three.

When neuroscientists speak, I listen. And I want our laws to be based on science, rather than someone's fear of George Orwell novels or documents that do not reflect scientific values.

[Malone]

66. okra

Okra is great, especially fried. You're going to have to go get "reprogrammed" to like it like normal people.

[hrmjustin]

38. Not in favor of free speech are you?

[fitman]

26. I voted yes because

of the couple arrested recently whose 2 young children died because they refused medical treatment for them(for minor illness) because they would "pray" away the disease and thought using modern medicine is wrong/not biblical.

They both need to be in jail.

[hrmjustin]

31. This is a very bad idea!

People have the right to believe what they want!

[el_bryanto]

32. 17 in favor 14 opposed.

That's 54.8% in favor. Encouraging or discouraging, depending on your point of view.

Bryant

[el_bryanto]

42. 24 to 18 - or 57% in favor

[randome]

34. You would also have to 'cure' believers in UFOs, Bigfoot, etc.

None of which I believe in, but there are plenty of people in the world who hold different opinions that are at odds with the mainstream.

We need 'kooks' (notice, I used quotes) to give us insights we might not have thought of on our own.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[pipi_k]

50. I have no

problem with "kooks" in general.

As long as they don't try to impose their "crazy" on others.


People can believe in unicorns, flying spaghetti monsters, leprechauns, gods, flying monkeys or whatever.

Just keep that stuff to themselves.

[Ohio Joe]

36. Yes

It is about time we stopped treating belief in magical beings as though they might be real.

[el_bryanto]

39. So to be clear - all religious people should be treated for mental illness

Not just fundamentalist?

Bryant

[Ohio Joe]

41. IMO... Yes

But I'd be happy enough if we just treated the fundies.

[hrmjustin]

37. BTW the other thread was never alerted on for SOP so that is why it was never locked.

If it had been alerted on it would have been locked.

[snooper2]

43. Yo Bryanto, you should watch this (THE FUNDAMENTALISTS - Religion or Lunacy)

I promise everyone in this video is sane

[el_bryanto]

44. We already did this Snooper2

I got banned from that thread. I'm not interested in repeating the experience.

Bryant

[snooper2]

49. I thought you wanted to learn, it's only an hour of your life

Don't call people names and you won't get the boot FYI

Jesus talked about self restraint right?

[el_bryanto]

54. What's frustrating is that I called you and Amuse Bouche names

I should have been more accurate and simply described your statements as ignorant and bigoted, rather than ascribing those qualities to you.

But you called me and other DU Christians either mentally ill or hypocritical fakers.

I just don't understand why one is acceptable and the other isn't. I guess because I'm a big boy and don't feel the need to alert threads, preferring to defend myself.

Bryant

[snooper2]

61. I've never alerted on DU ever FYI...

Watch the documentary, it's good-

[el_bryanto]

68. Well I guess I'll just believe you on that.

I will watch the documentary when I have time - but if the point of the documentary is that some religious extremists are scary, you will be surprised to find out I already believe that.

Bryant

[pipi_k]

45. I see people saying...

that everyone has the right to believe what they want to believe.

I think that's true.

As long as they're not using their beliefs to hurt others. And they're not trying to force their beliefs on others.

For example, if someone, for religious reasons, thinks abortion isn't for them, fine. It's when that person tries to impose his or her belief on someone else, depriving another of rights, that's when I think it's gone into the area of mental illness.

[Puzzledtraveller]

46. I agree, it's why I don't like mayor Bloomberg

[el_bryanto]

48. Recent Gallup Poll suggests that 48% of Americans call themselves pro-life

That's a lot of people to check for mental healthy issues. But then again they might not be pro-life for religious reasons.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/162548/americans-misjudge-abortion-views.aspx

Bryant

[Puzzledtraveller]

53. Christopher Hitchens comes to mind

though I don't think he ever claimed the mantle of "pro-life".

[pipi_k]

60. Actually, my point was...

that if someone wants to believe in Pro Life, I don't care.

That, to me, isn't evidence of a mental illness.

It's when Pro Life people decide that others should be denied abortion services just because THEY think it's wrong, I think that is a mental illness.

IOW, it's not so much the belief, it's what people do with it.

[el_bryanto]

65. That's a fine distinction

Pro-Life surely means that they are in favor of restricting access to Abortion? Or simply that they disapprove of abortion?

I largely disapprove of Abortion, but I don't think that it's my place or the Governments to restrict a woman's choice. So I call myself pro-choice.

Bryant

[Puzzledtraveller]

71. ^^this^^

[Puzzledtraveller]

51. I'm as scared of the people okay with this than any "religious fundamentalist"

What site am I on?

[sufrommich]

55. Me too. nt

[HappyMe]

59. Yes, me too.

[Apophis]

56. Absolutely.

Especially when the fundamentalism causes them to do behavior that harms others.

[cali]

57. I think the people who think this is fine and dandy are severely mentally ill themselves and should

immediately be subject to forced treatment.

No, I don't. I just think you don't think and you aren't very smart.

[Puzzledtraveller]

64. Thanks for chiming in Cali

a constant mote of reason in an ever increasing pool of madness.

[el_bryanto]

69. 60% of your fellow DUers disagree with you

The current vote is 35 in favor and 22 opposed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Apart of being a bad idea

The constitution is not the DSMV. That said, some forms of fundamentalism, not just religios, (political as well) do meet at least some of the criteria. Remember David Koresh? He met some criteria, such as paranoia. That said, he was still free.

You are confusing medical issues, that can be destructive, with civil rights.

[Zorra]

63. If some religious delusion causes them to actively try to prevent same sex marriage, probably.

Of course, acting to prevent innocent, deserving others from having their rights may also possibly be considered as the activity of a criminal mind as well.

It's wrong to conflate/confuse criminal activity with mental illness, so I'd like to see some perspective on the subject from folks with mental illnesses here.

Criminal. or mentally ill?

Note: The video below contains slightly graphic material that references the possible beginnings of homophobia among religious fundamentalists among primitive peoples, and this may be offensive to homophobes and those easily offended by references to human sexual behavior. It may be NSFW for some.

[Iggo]

70. Only if they're mentally ill, I'm thinkin'.