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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo, Clapper lied. Let's get REAL, national security GRIEFERS!
Last edited Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:45 PM - Edit history (1)
Our President's Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, lied to Congress last week when he claimed that no data is being harvested on "on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans".
The usual crowd of pusillanimous Liberals is telling tell us that's a BAD thing. Some have even gone so far as to blather on about Clapper getting fired, or going to jail, or whatever.
Fire Clapper? Ridiculous! Absurd!
While these are difficult problems made for men with big brains to ponder, let me explain this all to you in a simple way that most can understand:
First off, it's perfectly LEGAL for Clapper to lie, lie, lie. He can lie with impunity, because on January 2nd of this year, a certain President of the United States signed into law the National Defense Authorization Act of 2013, which includes a provision that permits our government to use propaganda against Americans, and what is propaganda, but lying? (For our own good, of course!)
Second, Clapper could have told a whopper, but he didn't. By his own, humble admission, he told the "least untruthful" lie that he could. This, my friends, is a model civil servant looking out for our best interests.
And finally, our brave bureaucrats need to know that we have their backs when they're "lying for the Lord". What kind of chilling message would it send to fire Clapper for making America great? That would be true terrorism! The people protecting us would live in daily fear of being fired just for making @#$% up! This is not the America that we know, love, and cherish!
Instead, President Obama should repeat the perfect example he set in the outrageous! outrageous! IRS catastrophe: he needs to fire someone who had absolutely nothing to do with the "Spy on Everyone" program. And he needs to do it now! Americans need to know that he holds his employees accountable!
Clapper is a good man, and he deserves our support. Just make sure that you say that on a phone call or in an email in the next 24 hours, OK?
Safely and Securely Yours,
Third-Way Manny
markpkessinger
(8,392 posts)Autumn
(45,048 posts)again.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Obama gang.
Hey. Damn it Manny, now you got me doing it.
Uncle Joe
(58,348 posts)in excreting the least possible untruthiness.
Thanks for the thread, Manny.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Satan is the father of the lie.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)My guess is that it's bad table manners.
12. Whatever alleged "truth" is proven by results to be but an empty fiction, let it be unceremoniously flung into the outer darkness, among the dead gods, dead empires, dead philosophies, and other useless lumber and wreckage!
13. The most dangerous of all enthroned lies is the holy, the sanctified, the privileged lie - the lie everyone believes to be a model truth. It is the fruitful mother of all other popular errors and delusions. It is a hydra-headed tree of unreason with a thousand roots. It is a social cancer!
14. The lie that is known to be a lie is half eradicated, but the lie that even intelligent persons accept as fact - the lie that has been inculcated in a little child at its mother's knee - is more dangerous to contend against than a creeping pestilence!
15. Popular lies have ever been the most potent enemies of personal liberty. There is only one way to deal with them: Cut them out, to the very core, just as cancers. Exterminate them root and branch. Annihilate them, or they will us!
Anton LaVey, The Satanic Bible, p. 17.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Clapper didn't lie about a damn thing. He was being questioned in an open hearing being aired on CSPAN for everyone & there mother to hear regarding a program that is highly classified.
For anyone that has an ounce of rational thought left in their brains this would be easy to put together but obviously rationale is lacking these days.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Since he was given the questions the day before his appearance, he couldn't have possibly have told Wyden that he couldn't discuss it for national security reasons.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)where the discussion flips to something related to classified information. Especially in a situation such as this? Even if we go off of your scenario how do you think that would have played out? Do you know he didn't bring that up previously? At no time in an unclassified briefing can a person even elude to a program such as this.
That is the way classification works & when it comes to discussing it in a forum such as that one, the bottom line is you don't.
Before you go all ape shit on me, yes I'm speaking from experience as a legal person who works for an intell unit in the military.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)"I'm sorry, I'm unable to discuss this subject because of national security interests."
But that's why he's where he is, and I'm not!
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)but you can't even allude to it in that manner. I don't know this guy from Steve (I don't know a Steve), but when a program such as this with such a classification of this level you can't in anyway shape or form provide an answer that may indicate the program exists.
When we receive our clearances it doesn't mean we just automatically obtain authorization to every single mission or document in that classification. Everything is on a need to know basis & is kept to a very limited group of people based on mission needs.
Security & confidentiality is a very big issue when it comes to these things & it's not as cut and dry as most people think.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Needs to be cut down to about the size of Canada's, at least per capita. That's where we need small government.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)and it is a major issue because of the wars we were invloved in. Everyone that wanted to come in could, but just half hazardly slashing the government is a small minded naive way of looking at things.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Which is why we cut our military down to the per capita size of Canada's. I'd call that selective.
Convenient for you keep such ad hominum attacks like "small-minded" and "naive" handy to save you from, like, any real thinking or exposition.
Our military isn't just bloated; it's malignant and has metastasized into an military-industrial-intelligence apparatus that now threatens threatens all of us except the one percent, whom it serves.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)We have way to many "contractors" doing the jobs of Soldiers to line the pockets of politicians & our military is huge & can be sliced enormously & is being cut dramatically as we speak.
However, I get very suspicious of people who start with the small gov talk (I didn't see the Canada remark, I'm blind as a bat) because Libitariarians scare the bajeebus out of me. I don't think our gov can be treated like a 12yr olds club where no rules are going to apply & a free for all ensues.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)That is, when I don't find them funny.
What they don't understand is, government size is a function of population, resources and population density. If you have many people to administer, you're going to need a larger government to do it effectively, because you need something to regulate the conflicts that are bound to arise.
We were successful with a smaller government in the beginning not for any reason except there were far fewer people. And government began to fail in the Gilded Age as the population grew but the government didn't.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)is the complete lack of common sense, it just baffles me. I'm pretty sure my 11 yr old son would be more productive in Congress & his nickname is Pistachio (don't know if your old enough to get it).
I really don't have a dog in this fight, just thought it would be useful to share my knowledge, but you can't lose for winning. Between me & my best friend we are the biggest liberal, hippie Soldiers you would ever meet but what can you do? I just know that there are a lot of layers to the situation & it's not black & white.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)Start producing some citation for all these statements or back down.
If you're a "legal person" working for an "intel unit", then you should have the regulations right at hand. And those aren't classified.
Anyone can be anything on the Internet. If you want to speak as an expert, pony up the expertise.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)classified regs? Sorry to disappoint you but the ones on surveillance are which is why I'm speaking in generality & hoping there is an ounce of common sense within the group holding the discussion, however, at this point it seems pointless.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)The regulations are super-duper extra top secret, and none of us poor slobs on DU have a clue.
What we do have - despite your assertion - is common sense. And common sense says you're making it up as you go along. That might be why you aren't getting the response you expected.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)to mislead you or anyone esle, nor do I participate in childish bullshit. All I was trying to do was provide so helpful insight as an individual who has experience & knowledge in the field.
You & everyone else can take it or leave it.
On that note I say good day
Loudestlib
(980 posts)He made a choice but it was still a lie.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)What did you want him to do admit to a Top Secret program on TV?In the real world that is called spillage & a breach of security. It is also a federal crime.
But hey what does it matter, silly laws let's just get rid of them all.
Fuckin Paul/Bachmann/Palin 2016
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)And it is an impeachable offense. I think right after Obama makes an appointment, he needs to hand the appointee a pamphlet that spells out how lying to Congress could get him impeached, and even prison time.
Both Geithner and Clapper have now lied to Congress.
Of course, the other thing that Obama could do right after he lets someone know they are being appointed is to instruct them that it is a good idea to tell the truth.
In the case of Clapper telling lies, now we all know he did! So why didn't he just refuse to answer or else tell the truth?
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)when a matter such as this is classified & a question such as that one is asked Clapper could not have answered in anyway that may have alluded to the existence of the program.
This really isn't that difficult to understand,a little bit of logic & reason can go a long way.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)I was answering it.
And the thing that jumps out at me, no matter how many times I think of your remarks is this one:
We all found out that Clapper lied. All of us. John Oliver had the most wonderful time making fun of Clapper. (If you want a good laugh, go to Comedy Central and view this past Monday night's show. hilarious.)
So why didn't Clapper just say, "Think about who I am, and think about how I really can't answer your questions."
Instead, he lied while pulling his hair out on the stand (okay, I am going over the top on that one as I am still quite caught up in Oliver's portrayal of Clapp-er and his "tells."
So in the end he has diminished himself to millions of Americans, cast a further bad light on the President's Administration, (as though what Holder does to it isn't enough), and in the end nothing he was supposedly supposed to protect has been protected.
After all, millions of Americans are only going to know that Clapper lied, and your argument, sound as it may be, is not going to get through to them. And the reason that this is so and it involves millions of disapproving Americans is because of how many of us have been foreclosed, (over eight millions,) the lack of decent paying jobs (even our student loans are friggin' processed overseas!), brought to our knees by medical bankruptcy, smashed around by the police while trying to exercise our first amendment rights, and now this thing of the fourth amendment. People here think, "oh noes, now the republicans will get in," but I really believe this whole scandal will bring enough converts to libertarianism that both parties might finally get the kick in the rear their corupt asses deserved a LONG time ago. Starting at least right around the time that Clinton signed off on the Bank Reform and Modernization Act, then left the presidency and then started collecting some $ 100,000 K for every speech delivered in front of a Corporate podium. A Dem Leader who sells out the middle class for 100K per speech, and never thinks twice about how destroying Glass Steagall wiped out the economy in 2008. Although now the man tells reporters that maybe someone should legalize marijuana... Um, Bill were you not the damn Pres for eight years???
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)With a senator's questions, and he didn't resort to lying:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/305139-merkley-waves-verizon-phone-demands-nsa-chief-share-grounds-for-seizing-data#ixzz2W2GHJA5O
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Something has totally wrong if misleading the people in charge of oversight is now the supreme law of the land.
Now, not silly law. Poison law. Let's get rid of it before it kills us.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)In our government having the power to classify everything.
During the Cold War, there was a bit of justification, even if during the Cold War, our military came close to triggering the destruction of the world three times. We're damn lucky we got out of that alive, and it probably would have been much safer if we, like, knew what our government was doing so we could really judge if our elected officials are doing their job or covering for an out-of-control military-industrial-intelligence bureaucracy.
shawn703
(2,702 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)WH defends DNI director Clapper after congressional testimony draws fire
The White House on Tuesday came to the defense of Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, after a senator blasted the intelligence official for failing to give "straight answers" on the government surveillance of Americans.
President Obama "certainly believes that Director Clapper has been straight and direct in the answers he's given" Congress, White House spokesman Jay Carney said Tuesday, adding that Clapper has been "aggressive in providing as much information as possible to the American people, to the press."
Clapper has come under fire for the testimony he gave before the Senate Intelligence Committee in March, when Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., asked him, "Does the [National Security Agency] collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?"
Clapper responded unequivocally, "No, sir. Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect -- but not wittingly."
That contradicts the recent revelations about the NSA's collection of all of Verizon's U.S. phone records.
- more -
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57588778/wh-defends-dni-director-clapper-after-congressional-testimony-draws-fire/
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)Liar running the thing?
Are they crazy? Incredible.
Autumn
(45,048 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)I posted my own opinion earlier: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2993298
They inadvertently collected the information of every person in the country...rhings like that happen all the time...nothing we should be worried about.
dkf
(37,305 posts)b.durruti
(102 posts)magellan
(13,257 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)It's not like they're selling our data to terrorists or something.
former9thward
(31,974 posts)Previously he worked for Bush and Clinton.
DCKit
(18,541 posts)I used to thing that the Constutititioon meant something, but now I now betters.
Signed,
Lulu Busch
one_voice
(20,043 posts)I haven't read that anywhere.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Sorry Manny, but you can't use one law to obstruct another prohibition.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Sadly, when an Obama appointee lies to Congress, nothing Happens.
Geithner lied to Congress on several occasions. And nothing happened to him, and nothing will happen to Mr Clapper either.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)We important people have our Eric Holder device to stop any irritating law in its tracks.
vanlassie
(5,668 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)xocet
(3,871 posts)Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)PB
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Very funny!
Cheers!
enough
(13,256 posts)forestpath
(3,102 posts)Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
DCKit
(18,541 posts)They're taking billions out of the "real" economy.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Worth every cent!
Regards,
TWM
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)As long as Obama is President forever we'll be fine. Don't worry, be happy.
Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)Freedom is slavery.
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Glarg.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Hopefully you and your kind will be properly complacent and sensible now that it's been explained to you.
Regards,
TWM
leftstreet
(36,103 posts)Was it his garage that was messy, or was it Holder who ran off to Hong Kong?
!! DURec !!
MsPithy
(809 posts)and that lie will haunt him the rest of his days.
DCKit
(18,541 posts)The Corps that are "protecting" us are grifters, taking billions out of the economy.
nineteen50
(1,187 posts)love the clap trap clappers when they are your clappers but hate it when they are talking clap for someone else.