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MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:54 PM Jun 2013

So, Clapper lied. Let's get REAL, national security GRIEFERS!

Last edited Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Our President's Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, lied to Congress last week when he claimed that no data is being harvested on "on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans".

The usual crowd of pusillanimous Liberals is telling tell us that's a BAD thing. Some have even gone so far as to blather on about Clapper getting fired, or going to jail, or whatever.

Fire Clapper? Ridiculous! Absurd!

While these are difficult problems made for men with big brains to ponder, let me explain this all to you in a simple way that most can understand:

First off, it's perfectly LEGAL for Clapper to lie, lie, lie. He can lie with impunity, because on January 2nd of this year, a certain President of the United States signed into law the National Defense Authorization Act of 2013, which includes a provision that permits our government to use propaganda against Americans, and what is propaganda, but lying? (For our own good, of course!)

Second, Clapper could have told a whopper, but he didn't. By his own, humble admission, he told the "least untruthful" lie that he could. This, my friends, is a model civil servant looking out for our best interests.

And finally, our brave bureaucrats need to know that we have their backs when they're "lying for the Lord". What kind of chilling message would it send to fire Clapper for making America great? That would be true terrorism! The people protecting us would live in daily fear of being fired just for making @#$% up! This is not the America that we know, love, and cherish!

Instead, President Obama should repeat the perfect example he set in the outrageous! outrageous! IRS catastrophe: he needs to fire someone who had absolutely nothing to do with the "Spy on Everyone" program. And he needs to do it now! Americans need to know that he holds his employees accountable!

Clapper is a good man, and he deserves our support. Just make sure that you say that on a phone call or in an email in the next 24 hours, OK?

Safely and Securely Yours,


Third-Way Manny

70 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
So, Clapper lied. Let's get REAL, national security GRIEFERS! (Original Post) MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 OP
Love it! n/t markpkessinger Jun 2013 #1
Manny hits it out of the park Autumn Jun 2013 #2
+1 truebrit71 Jun 2013 #4
K&R That sensible woodchuck could not have said it better! MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #3
Yes I loved Clapper when he was part of the Bush Gang and I love him now he is part of the rhett o rick Jun 2013 #5
I've always thought the clap was doing a heckuva job Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #6
The Clapper Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #7
Lies are the reason they call us "The Great Satan". L0oniX Jun 2013 #8
Lies are not the reason they call us "The Great Satan." OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #34
No concept of classification giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #9
Yes, of course! MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #16
Have you ever sat in a hearing/deposition giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #22
I would do something dumb, like saying MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #28
I understand what you are saying giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #31
Our military and intelligence caseymoz Jun 2013 #37
Our military is bloated giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #44
I'm glad you agree. caseymoz Jun 2013 #46
Don't take it the wrong way giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #50
Oh, they scare me too. caseymoz Jun 2013 #63
What gets me giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #66
Oh, piffle. enlightenment Jun 2013 #51
So now your saying we don't have giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #62
Oh . . . I see. enlightenment Jun 2013 #67
I have no reason giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #69
No he lied Loudestlib Jun 2013 #24
Logic & reason escapes you giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #27
But he also lied to Congress. And that lie is an offense. truedelphi Jun 2013 #38
& you need to reread my post giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #41
I did re read your post several times this Am as truedelphi Jun 2013 #48
For instance, this individual did a very good job truedelphi Jun 2013 #53
But he was still lying. caseymoz Jun 2013 #43
I'm tired of a million people caseymoz Jun 2013 #36
Well said. nt shawn703 Jun 2013 #58
The new oath in court: "Do you swear to tell the least untruthful lie, so help you God?" "I do!" reformist2 Jun 2013 #10
WH defends DNI director Clapper after congressional testimony draws fire ProSense Jun 2013 #11
Too funny. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #13
Seriously...how can the White House possibly think they can guide through this with a known dkf Jun 2013 #15
Come on, the White House says he's not a liar. Autumn Jun 2013 #20
I posted that to elicit these very response. ProSense Jun 2013 #33
Yep zeemike Jun 2013 #26
Hahahahahaha!!!!!! Love it. dkf Jun 2013 #12
America appears to have a case of the Clap. -nt- b.durruti Jun 2013 #14
Ha ha! magellan Jun 2013 #18
It's NOT perjury when our GOP appointees do it. Octafish Jun 2013 #17
He was appointed by Obama in 2010. former9thward Jun 2013 #55
As a Librairian, it's all good with me now. DCKit Jun 2013 #19
what is a national security griefer? one_voice Jun 2013 #21
Lying to Congress is a felony, that law has not changed. Say, "Goodbye Mr. Clapper." Coyotl Jun 2013 #23
Right you are. truedelphi Jun 2013 #39
Your so-called "laws" fetter only the little people MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #42
It all depends on what your definition of "wittingly" means. vanlassie Jun 2013 #25
ROFL !!! - K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #29
Clap On, Clap Off - The Clapper xocet Jun 2013 #30
LOL- I love it! nt Poll_Blind Jun 2013 #32
Well done Manny! Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #35
k&r (nt) enough Jun 2013 #40
K&R This is Colbert worthy. forestpath Jun 2013 #45
Unindicted felons have no business being Director of National Intelligence. Faryn Balyncd Jun 2013 #47
Very useful links. Lots of stuff I missed. Thanks. k&r n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #49
Grifters, Manny. DCKit Jun 2013 #52
$80 billion a year for this stuff MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #56
But it was a GOOD lie and the ends justify the means! MNBrewer Jun 2013 #54
War is peace Canuckistanian Jun 2013 #57
Reducing our cilvil rights will increase our civil rights. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #60
Lol, Manny you did it again. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #59
Yes, I have. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #64
I'm so confused. Did he abandon the ballerina? leftstreet Jun 2013 #61
Don't forget that Clapper felt really, really bad about it, MsPithy Jun 2013 #65
Grifters manny, Grifters. DCKit Jun 2013 #68
I get it nineteen50 Jun 2013 #70
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
5. Yes I loved Clapper when he was part of the Bush Gang and I love him now he is part of the
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:01 PM
Jun 2013

Obama gang.

Hey. Damn it Manny, now you got me doing it.

Uncle Joe

(58,348 posts)
6. I've always thought the clap was doing a heckuva job
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:01 PM
Jun 2013

in excreting the least possible untruthiness.

Thanks for the thread, Manny.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
34. Lies are not the reason they call us "The Great Satan."
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:41 PM
Jun 2013

My guess is that it's bad table manners.

THE BOOK OF SATAN II

12. Whatever alleged "truth" is proven by results to be but an empty fiction, let it be unceremoniously flung into the outer darkness, among the dead gods, dead empires, dead philosophies, and other useless lumber and wreckage!

13. The most dangerous of all enthroned lies is the holy, the sanctified, the privileged lie - the lie everyone believes to be a model truth. It is the fruitful mother of all other popular errors and delusions. It is a hydra-headed tree of unreason with a thousand roots. It is a social cancer!

14. The lie that is known to be a lie is half eradicated, but the lie that even intelligent persons accept as fact - the lie that has been inculcated in a little child at its mother's knee - is more dangerous to contend against than a creeping pestilence!

15. Popular lies have ever been the most potent enemies of personal liberty. There is only one way to deal with them: Cut them out, to the very core, just as cancers. Exterminate them root and branch. Annihilate them, or they will us!

Anton LaVey, The Satanic Bible, p. 17.
 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
9. No concept of classification
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:07 PM
Jun 2013

Clapper didn't lie about a damn thing. He was being questioned in an open hearing being aired on CSPAN for everyone & there mother to hear regarding a program that is highly classified.

For anyone that has an ounce of rational thought left in their brains this would be easy to put together but obviously rationale is lacking these days.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
16. Yes, of course!
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:15 PM
Jun 2013

Since he was given the questions the day before his appearance, he couldn't have possibly have told Wyden that he couldn't discuss it for national security reasons.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
22. Have you ever sat in a hearing/deposition
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:33 PM
Jun 2013

where the discussion flips to something related to classified information. Especially in a situation such as this? Even if we go off of your scenario how do you think that would have played out? Do you know he didn't bring that up previously? At no time in an unclassified briefing can a person even elude to a program such as this.

That is the way classification works & when it comes to discussing it in a forum such as that one, the bottom line is you don't.

Before you go all ape shit on me, yes I'm speaking from experience as a legal person who works for an intell unit in the military.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
28. I would do something dumb, like saying
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:53 PM
Jun 2013

"I'm sorry, I'm unable to discuss this subject because of national security interests."

But that's why he's where he is, and I'm not!

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
31. I understand what you are saying
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:23 PM
Jun 2013

but you can't even allude to it in that manner. I don't know this guy from Steve (I don't know a Steve), but when a program such as this with such a classification of this level you can't in anyway shape or form provide an answer that may indicate the program exists.

When we receive our clearances it doesn't mean we just automatically obtain authorization to every single mission or document in that classification. Everything is on a need to know basis & is kept to a very limited group of people based on mission needs.

Security & confidentiality is a very big issue when it comes to these things & it's not as cut and dry as most people think.

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
37. Our military and intelligence
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:10 AM
Jun 2013

Needs to be cut down to about the size of Canada's, at least per capita. That's where we need small government.
 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
44. Our military is bloated
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:33 PM
Jun 2013

and it is a major issue because of the wars we were invloved in. Everyone that wanted to come in could, but just half hazardly slashing the government is a small minded naive way of looking at things.

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
46. I'm glad you agree.
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:48 PM
Jun 2013

Which is why we cut our military down to the per capita size of Canada's. I'd call that selective.

Convenient for you keep such ad hominum attacks like "small-minded" and "naive" handy to save you from, like, any real thinking or exposition.

Our military isn't just bloated; it's malignant and has metastasized into an military-industrial-intelligence apparatus that now threatens threatens all of us except the one percent, whom it serves.
 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
50. Don't take it the wrong way
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:41 PM
Jun 2013

We have way to many "contractors" doing the jobs of Soldiers to line the pockets of politicians & our military is huge & can be sliced enormously & is being cut dramatically as we speak.

However, I get very suspicious of people who start with the small gov talk (I didn't see the Canada remark, I'm blind as a bat) because Libitariarians scare the bajeebus out of me. I don't think our gov can be treated like a 12yr olds club where no rules are going to apply & a free for all ensues.

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
63. Oh, they scare me too.
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:30 PM
Jun 2013

That is, when I don't find them funny.

What they don't understand is, government size is a function of population, resources and population density. If you have many people to administer, you're going to need a larger government to do it effectively, because you need something to regulate the conflicts that are bound to arise.

We were successful with a smaller government in the beginning not for any reason except there were far fewer people. And government began to fail in the Gilded Age as the population grew but the government didn't.
 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
66. What gets me
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:44 PM
Jun 2013

is the complete lack of common sense, it just baffles me. I'm pretty sure my 11 yr old son would be more productive in Congress & his nickname is Pistachio (don't know if your old enough to get it).

I really don't have a dog in this fight, just thought it would be useful to share my knowledge, but you can't lose for winning. Between me & my best friend we are the biggest liberal, hippie Soldiers you would ever meet but what can you do? I just know that there are a lot of layers to the situation & it's not black & white.

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
51. Oh, piffle.
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:49 PM
Jun 2013

Start producing some citation for all these statements or back down.

If you're a "legal person" working for an "intel unit", then you should have the regulations right at hand. And those aren't classified.

Anyone can be anything on the Internet. If you want to speak as an expert, pony up the expertise.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
62. So now your saying we don't have
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:29 PM
Jun 2013

classified regs? Sorry to disappoint you but the ones on surveillance are which is why I'm speaking in generality & hoping there is an ounce of common sense within the group holding the discussion, however, at this point it seems pointless.

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
67. Oh . . . I see.
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:50 PM
Jun 2013

The regulations are super-duper extra top secret, and none of us poor slobs on DU have a clue.

What we do have - despite your assertion - is common sense. And common sense says you're making it up as you go along. That might be why you aren't getting the response you expected.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
69. I have no reason
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 09:07 PM
Jun 2013

to mislead you or anyone esle, nor do I participate in childish bullshit. All I was trying to do was provide so helpful insight as an individual who has experience & knowledge in the field.

You & everyone else can take it or leave it.

On that note I say good day

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
27. Logic & reason escapes you
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:49 PM
Jun 2013

What did you want him to do admit to a Top Secret program on TV?In the real world that is called spillage & a breach of security. It is also a federal crime.

But hey what does it matter, silly laws let's just get rid of them all.

Fuckin Paul/Bachmann/Palin 2016

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
38. But he also lied to Congress. And that lie is an offense.
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:37 AM
Jun 2013

And it is an impeachable offense. I think right after Obama makes an appointment, he needs to hand the appointee a pamphlet that spells out how lying to Congress could get him impeached, and even prison time.

Both Geithner and Clapper have now lied to Congress.

Of course, the other thing that Obama could do right after he lets someone know they are being appointed is to instruct them that it is a good idea to tell the truth.

In the case of Clapper telling lies, now we all know he did! So why didn't he just refuse to answer or else tell the truth?

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
41. & you need to reread my post
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 07:42 AM
Jun 2013

when a matter such as this is classified & a question such as that one is asked Clapper could not have answered in anyway that may have alluded to the existence of the program.

This really isn't that difficult to understand,a little bit of logic & reason can go a long way.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
48. I did re read your post several times this Am as
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:29 PM
Jun 2013

I was answering it.

And the thing that jumps out at me, no matter how many times I think of your remarks is this one:

We all found out that Clapper lied. All of us. John Oliver had the most wonderful time making fun of Clapper. (If you want a good laugh, go to Comedy Central and view this past Monday night's show. hilarious.)

So why didn't Clapper just say, "Think about who I am, and think about how I really can't answer your questions."

Instead, he lied while pulling his hair out on the stand (okay, I am going over the top on that one as I am still quite caught up in Oliver's portrayal of Clapp-er and his "tells.&quot

So in the end he has diminished himself to millions of Americans, cast a further bad light on the President's Administration, (as though what Holder does to it isn't enough), and in the end nothing he was supposedly supposed to protect has been protected.

After all, millions of Americans are only going to know that Clapper lied, and your argument, sound as it may be, is not going to get through to them. And the reason that this is so and it involves millions of disapproving Americans is because of how many of us have been foreclosed, (over eight millions,) the lack of decent paying jobs (even our student loans are friggin' processed overseas!), brought to our knees by medical bankruptcy, smashed around by the police while trying to exercise our first amendment rights, and now this thing of the fourth amendment. People here think, "oh noes, now the republicans will get in," but I really believe this whole scandal will bring enough converts to libertarianism that both parties might finally get the kick in the rear their corupt asses deserved a LONG time ago. Starting at least right around the time that Clinton signed off on the Bank Reform and Modernization Act, then left the presidency and then started collecting some $ 100,000 K for every speech delivered in front of a Corporate podium. A Dem Leader who sells out the middle class for 100K per speech, and never thinks twice about how destroying Glass Steagall wiped out the economy in 2008. Although now the man tells reporters that maybe someone should legalize marijuana... Um, Bill were you not the damn Pres for eight years???

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
43. But he was still lying.
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:57 AM
Jun 2013

Something has totally wrong if misleading the people in charge of oversight is now the supreme law of the land.

Now, not silly law. Poison law. Let's get rid of it before it kills us.

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
36. I'm tired of a million people
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:07 AM
Jun 2013

In our government having the power to classify everything.

During the Cold War, there was a bit of justification, even if during the Cold War, our military came close to triggering the destruction of the world three times. We're damn lucky we got out of that alive, and it probably would have been much safer if we, like, knew what our government was doing so we could really judge if our elected officials are doing their job or covering for an out-of-control military-industrial-intelligence bureaucracy.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
11. WH defends DNI director Clapper after congressional testimony draws fire
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:08 PM
Jun 2013
By Stephanie Condon

WH defends DNI director Clapper after congressional testimony draws fire

The White House on Tuesday came to the defense of Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, after a senator blasted the intelligence official for failing to give "straight answers" on the government surveillance of Americans.

President Obama "certainly believes that Director Clapper has been straight and direct in the answers he's given" Congress, White House spokesman Jay Carney said Tuesday, adding that Clapper has been "aggressive in providing as much information as possible to the American people, to the press."

Clapper has come under fire for the testimony he gave before the Senate Intelligence Committee in March, when Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., asked him, "Does the [National Security Agency] collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?"

Clapper responded unequivocally, "No, sir. Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect -- but not wittingly."

That contradicts the recent revelations about the NSA's collection of all of Verizon's U.S. phone records.

- more -

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57588778/wh-defends-dni-director-clapper-after-congressional-testimony-draws-fire/



 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
15. Seriously...how can the White House possibly think they can guide through this with a known
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:12 PM
Jun 2013

Liar running the thing?

Are they crazy? Incredible.

Autumn

(45,048 posts)
20. Come on, the White House says he's not a liar.
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:24 PM
Jun 2013
he just gave the ‘least untruthful’ answer he could.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
26. Yep
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:43 PM
Jun 2013

They inadvertently collected the information of every person in the country...rhings like that happen all the time...nothing we should be worried about.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
17. It's NOT perjury when our GOP appointees do it.
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:17 PM
Jun 2013

It's not like they're selling our data to terrorists or something.

 

DCKit

(18,541 posts)
19. As a Librairian, it's all good with me now.
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:21 PM
Jun 2013

I used to thing that the Constutititioon meant something, but now I now betters.

Signed,

Lulu Busch

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
23. Lying to Congress is a felony, that law has not changed. Say, "Goodbye Mr. Clapper."
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:34 PM
Jun 2013

Sorry Manny, but you can't use one law to obstruct another prohibition.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
39. Right you are.
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:43 AM
Jun 2013

Sadly, when an Obama appointee lies to Congress, nothing Happens.

Geithner lied to Congress on several occasions. And nothing happened to him, and nothing will happen to Mr Clapper either.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
42. Your so-called "laws" fetter only the little people
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:41 AM
Jun 2013

We important people have our Eric Holder device to stop any irritating law in its tracks.

MNBrewer

(8,462 posts)
54. But it was a GOOD lie and the ends justify the means!
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:12 PM
Jun 2013

As long as Obama is President forever we'll be fine. Don't worry, be happy.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
64. Yes, I have.
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:36 PM
Jun 2013

Hopefully you and your kind will be properly complacent and sensible now that it's been explained to you.

Regards,

TWM

leftstreet

(36,103 posts)
61. I'm so confused. Did he abandon the ballerina?
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:25 PM
Jun 2013

Was it his garage that was messy, or was it Holder who ran off to Hong Kong?



!! DURec !!

MsPithy

(809 posts)
65. Don't forget that Clapper felt really, really bad about it,
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:41 PM
Jun 2013

and that lie will haunt him the rest of his days.

 

DCKit

(18,541 posts)
68. Grifters manny, Grifters.
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 08:55 PM
Jun 2013

The Corps that are "protecting" us are grifters, taking billions out of the economy.

nineteen50

(1,187 posts)
70. I get it
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:18 PM
Jun 2013

love the clap trap clappers when they are your clappers but hate it when they are talking clap for someone else.

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