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MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:07 PM Jun 2013

So the White House definitely has a secret kill list

Last edited Sat Jun 22, 2013, 11:29 AM - Edit history (1)

And is likely secretly recording every phone conversation and email we send.

Both are unprecedented in the US.

Anyone else thinking this is a bad combo? Should I just toss back some GABA agonist and chill? Or is there a problem?

91 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So the White House definitely has a secret kill list (Original Post) MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 OP
This is what's meant by "hope and change" these days. villager Jun 2013 #1
Yeah, we're hoping for a change Demeter Jun 2013 #60
Well, we voted for hope and change/ Hatchling Jun 2013 #90
Why are a Rand Paul-supporting racist? nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #2
I knew I was a racist, but MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #3
Clearly you are using these issues to make Libertarians look better. Bonobo Jun 2013 #4
Clearly. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #5
Careful, some here will miss the sarcasm nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #9
Let 'em think I'm a gay racist Paulite. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #25
Exactly Enthusiast Jun 2013 #74
They review the list carefully bobduca Jun 2013 #6
They're making a list, they're checking it twice MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #7
Sir, It Would Seem That Terrorists Should be Killed bobduca Jun 2013 #8
Some clarification, first? MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #10
I got nothin. bobduca Jun 2013 #11
That's too easy. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #49
Well said! What many don't seem to get is this is relative to TPTB at RKP5637 Jun 2013 #80
Hoover and McCarty were bumbling fools compared to who we have today. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #85
I don't want anyone to be killed by my government. Ed Suspicious Jun 2013 #19
Disagree. Terrorists should be brought to justice. Th1onein Jun 2013 #28
Are you now implying that DUers are racist terrorist? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #33
Sir, Implication Is the Sincerest Form Of Loyalty Questioning bobduca Jun 2013 #36
Do you disagree with my 'postulate'? - giggle usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #39
Wait, that schtick looks so familiar.... it's, The Judge! NO. um MNBrewer Jun 2013 #42
They know who you've been texting dflprincess Jun 2013 #13
! MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #20
This ones on my list, Manny~ sheshe2 Jun 2013 #68
Sorry I missed it the first time around MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #89
A real LOL Rise Rebel Resist Jun 2013 #69
Uh no treestar Jun 2013 #12
Secrets are most beneficial to those who know them. Octafish Jun 2013 #14
The Ministry of Truth? Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #52
Yep! All sounds familiar, doesn't it ... SOS, with new tech tools. n/t RKP5637 Jun 2013 #81
Oh com'on...what exactly could go wrong? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #15
Good point. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #17
If it's so secret, how do you know about it? longship Jun 2013 #16
But I feel safe so it's ok. progressoid Jun 2013 #18
Bimbo alert fail. ucrdem Jun 2013 #21
"Bimbo"? MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #22
Okay that was kind of funny. ucrdem Jun 2013 #23
I think that I shouldn't admit this, but MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #24
Ah. Bimbo alerts were media rapid responses ucrdem Jun 2013 #27
I remember the eruptions, but not the alerts MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #29
Okay. But the point I'm ever so gently suggesting Manny ucrdem Jun 2013 #31
How many people did Gennifer Flowers vaporize? MNBrewer Jun 2013 #43
I think Bill was the vaporizer ucrdem Jun 2013 #45
+1 JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #77
And what the OP is suggesting in aTongue and Cheek nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #54
Added to the newly-exposed "Spy on Everyone" program, the totality MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #58
How I learned to stop worrying and love the totalitarianism, ucrdem Jun 2013 #71
4 - watch as the surveillance/anti-"terrorism"/extra-judicial execution regime Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #79
So the bad Iraq intel story ceased to be an issue somewhere around March 2004? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #37
If it didn't get a cute nickname it's down the crapper. ucrdem Jun 2013 #41
You'd think Congressional Republicans would be a little less... antagonistic Fumesucker Jun 2013 #26
drone jokes bobduca Jun 2013 #61
I think Alex Jones said that too 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #30
Thanks that's basically what I was trying to explain to Manny just above. ucrdem Jun 2013 #32
Hitler was a vegetarian, ergo vegetarians are Nazis. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #38
Exactly! Life is so much simpler that way 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #53
It's the same old "I'm the decider, and I decide what is best" mentality jsr Jun 2013 #34
It's a great combo! Hydra Jun 2013 #35
What secret kill list? (Please excuse the newbie) Jarla Jun 2013 #40
Hi Jarla, he's talking about the drone story that came out last May. ucrdem Jun 2013 #46
Hi! Thanks! Jarla Jun 2013 #48
This kill list nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #47
Thank You! Jarla Jun 2013 #50
I heard they had three kill lists. Progressive dog Jun 2013 #44
I wonder if the secret kill list will make it to The List. rug Jun 2013 #51
Well, if you think we're in peacetime, we're not. Amonester Jun 2013 #55
And a few years during the Clinton years nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #56
Bosnia vs. Serbia... Amonester Jun 2013 #57
His first term nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #86
Total brain fart on my part MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #88
This is a problem. Perhaps the biggest threat to the US since confederation. delrem Jun 2013 #59
Read "The Way of the Knife". You have no idea. wtmusic Jun 2013 #62
thanks for suggesting this Agony Jun 2013 #83
K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #63
What is the big deal noise Jun 2013 #64
Well, when you put it *that* way, MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #65
It's shocking that Manny Goldstein has not already been killed by the Obama Death Squads alcibiades_mystery Jun 2013 #66
Bad combo, yes, but.... ReRe Jun 2013 #67
They should subcontract it. The Mafia is good at this kind of thing....and cheaper than the CIA. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #70
Not anymore JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #78
HOPE you aren't on the "list" and CHANGE your phone number often. nt Poll_Blind Jun 2013 #72
Manny, please correct me if I am wrong here~ sheshe2 Jun 2013 #73
Technically, the US doesn't go to war anymore. That meme is only used HereSince1628 Jun 2013 #75
You're right, and I'm doubly wrong MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #87
You forgot to close your bold tag. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #91
Can you tell me JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #76
It keeps you safe - until they don't like you - then your death keeps someone else safe whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #82
kill for peace...!!! madrchsod Jun 2013 #84
 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
3. I knew I was a racist, but
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:13 PM
Jun 2013

now I have to support Paul, too?

Do I have to support his hair? No can do.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
4. Clearly you are using these issues to make Libertarians look better.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:14 PM
Jun 2013

Only a Libertarian would speak out against a secret kill list.

I trust Obama.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
74. Exactly
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 08:03 AM
Jun 2013

Even if there is a secret kill list we don't have worry if we haven't done anything wrong.

bobduca

(1,763 posts)
6. They review the list carefully
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:24 PM
Jun 2013

"And it's legal, because they passed secret laws, and swore the senators to secrecy at the briefing. All branches of govt. have signed off on it."

"I work as a private contractor NSA conusltant do you want me to paste a bunch of nonsense property names about metadata?"

"Hey it was illegal under Bush"

"I bet Snowden got money from the CHINEEEESSE!!!"



 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
7. They're making a list, they're checking it twice
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:29 PM
Jun 2013

They're gonna decide who's naughty or nice
Then they'll blow the bad ones, to m-i-i-i-st....

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
10. Some clarification, first?
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:36 PM
Jun 2013

1. Please define "terrorist"
2. Who decides on who is a terrorist? Who decides on the punishment?
3. Is the process subject to any public scrutiny?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
49. That's too easy.
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 12:01 AM
Jun 2013

A terrorists is anyone that challenges the authoritarian state. E.g., Occupy.

The authoritarian state gets to decide who is a terrorist and what the punishment is.

And I am guessing you are joking about the public scrutiny.

Of course in the name of democracy, the public gets to vote on who gets to be the authoritarian figurehead leader.

The tough question is who is behind the figurehead? Who is included in the cabal running our government. Who is forcing our figurehead president to appoint the same economic leaders that Bush had and the same guys Bush had as security leaders?

RKP5637

(67,103 posts)
80. Well said! What many don't seem to get is this is relative to TPTB at
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 08:43 AM
Jun 2013

the time. Individuals might be great under one regime and declared evil under the next. It is ALL relative to whom TPTB are at a point in time. And, these same tools will be used by that particular regime. When I was kid it was the communists are coming, the Russians are gonna get us ... now, it's the terrorists are gonna get us. Same old, same old. It's also the cloak and dagger secrecy.

And predictive analysis ... individuals declared a threat because they are interested in more than vogue inane dribble. ... those questioning our direction as a country declared a threat to TPTB ... possibly. Imagine what could be built as a profile from DU postings alone, for example. All of this starts to remind me of the KGB.

J Edgar Hoover and Joe McCarty would have loved tools like this. I often think many Americans are woefully forgetting history when countries proceed down this path.

Th1onein

(8,514 posts)
28. Disagree. Terrorists should be brought to justice.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:58 PM
Jun 2013

The executive branch cannot act as judge, jury and executioner.

MNBrewer

(8,462 posts)
42. Wait, that schtick looks so familiar.... it's, The Judge! NO. um
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:50 PM
Jun 2013

Judge Judy1!!.. No

It's on the tip of my tongue. All that passive aggression is so characteristic, but I'm having the a hard time with remembering The Name Of The Person Who Does That Crap.

dflprincess

(28,075 posts)
13. They know who you've been texting
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:38 PM
Jun 2013

They know if you've sent tweets
They know if you're on Facebook or not
So be discrete for your own sake.

sheshe2

(83,730 posts)
68. This ones on my list, Manny~
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 01:59 AM
Jun 2013

Boston Rock's................Sorry you were not able to make it to this post about Boston. Being a Watertown
Native resident thought you might belatedly want to kick it. I know you love Boston.

Boston got blown away, so to speak on April 15th. Our patriots day, our Marathon. They were blown into the mist.

Sad because they were not the bad ones they were the good ones. Three souls died! Sixteen people lost limbs.

I still cry~


Remember shelter in place, yea me too. LOL we were called sheeple...we were mindless bots. The police cowered us. We were called that everywhere. We were called that on DU. They droned away over and over about how stupid we were.Mindless.

I am so glad that Boston proved them wrong! Aren't you?




http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022925554

Dear Boston! Let's show the world we care!

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
89. Sorry I missed it the first time around
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 11:35 AM
Jun 2013

But thanks for sharing it.

The whole "Watertown was a police state" thing is weird. Either you and I are deluded, or much of the rest of the country doesn't have cops who are helpful, not nuts.

I'm actually a Newtonian, but Newton Corner, so spitting distance to Watertown.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
14. Secrets are most beneficial to those who know them.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:38 PM
Jun 2013

So, when I see the rich getting richer and the forever wars expanding I...think it's a coincidence.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
15. Oh com'on...what exactly could go wrong?
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:39 PM
Jun 2013

Just look forwards and never ever look at those pesky history books

longship

(40,416 posts)
16. If it's so secret, how do you know about it?
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:39 PM
Jun 2013

I guess it maybe is not so secret.

Or maybe it's just somebody making shit up.

But who's to know the difference?

Should I be looking for drones under my bed? I know I have dust bunnies under there, so it wouldn't surprise me.

And the big power line in my front yard has a helicopter fly down it twice a month, which is a rare thing here in the national forest unless you're growing pot, or you live next to a big assed power line. Frankly, the power company could save a lot of money by ditching that copter and using a unmanned drone. The insurance costs alone would likely save a bundle, let alone the fuel. Alas, that's the price we pay for reliable electric service out here in the bush. At least I am an owner. It's a CO-OP electric company. And I don't mind the twice monthly overflights as long as the damned 220KVolt lines stay up on the towers and not in my yard. Maybe I ought to suggest that they enlist some high school students building them a drone to do the same as their twice monthly copter. Might be a good savings on everybody's bill.

As always, thanks for your posts. They are high quality.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
22. "Bimbo"?
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:46 PM
Jun 2013

Nobody on DU knows about my gender reassignment surgery, and they're not about to find out now, dammit!

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
23. Okay that was kind of funny.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:49 PM
Jun 2013

But you do remember Bimbo alerts and who issued them, right? and why? That part isn't so funny.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
27. Ah. Bimbo alerts were media rapid responses
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 10:56 PM
Jun 2013

to Bimbo eruptions in the Clinton era, a couple of the more famous eruptees being Paula Jones and Gennifer Flowers. So bimbo alerts made you want to turn of the TV and listen to music instead of NPR for a week or two.

Back in the day. . . .

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
31. Okay. But the point I'm ever so gently suggesting Manny
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:06 PM
Jun 2013

is that the secret kill list is basically Gennifer Flowers by another name and seeing it revived here yet again after a year of non-stop drone outrages kind of gives me déjà vu feeling.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
54. And what the OP is suggesting in aTongue and Cheek
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 12:13 AM
Jun 2013

Is that the connections between these two is at the very least troubling.

Care to look into those history books and how kill lists and state surveillance were connected....have been connected?

"Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it" or words to that effect from Santayana apply here.

Hey, at least one of those regimes, and trust me, it wasn't just one, burned books. These days we don't have to worry...willful ignorance makes burning books not necessary.

And before you scream nazi, I said one of many. You think only the Nazis did that? The soviets, Pinochet Chile, Argentina, Spain, the Killing fields, the Great Leap Forward, central America in the 1980s...and those are just the tip of that...

I know I know, it's legal (a disgusting talking point on it's own) and this could never happen here....

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
58. Added to the newly-exposed "Spy on Everyone" program, the totality
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 12:31 AM
Jun 2013

kinda totals me.

It suddenly looks, to me, more like the infrastructure of a totalitarian wet dream, rather than a single awful idea.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
71. How I learned to stop worrying and love the totalitarianism,
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 03:01 AM
Jun 2013

in 3 easy steps:

1- The first step is to admit that leftist pundits so reliable we can set our watches by them if we still wore watches are as full of baloney as Rush, Billo and Glenn. Glenn B that is.


2 - The next step is to realize that the only way to know what's actually going on after reading or hearing the news is to come here and check ProSense's threads. Well there are other ways I suppose but that's a good short cut.


3 - The last step is to figure out how to stop worrying and love DU without getting pissed off by certain other prominent threads and that one I'm still working on but I think we're all making progress so life is good.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
79. 4 - watch as the surveillance/anti-"terrorism"/extra-judicial execution regime
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 08:26 AM
Jun 2013

Becomes the accepted norm and after a decade or so a true totalitarian becomes chief executive. Then we'll pine for the days when it was just complaints about water quality that could land you on a list.

If there is even a shred of the idealism within Obama that drew us to him then he has to be the one to end this madness. If he won't do it on his own then we must demand it be done because it is only a matter of time until a true authoritarian gets into office. The longer we tolerate this the longer it has a chance to insulate itself.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
37. So the bad Iraq intel story ceased to be an issue somewhere around March 2004?
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:41 PM
Jun 2013

Boy, are we out of sync with the times!

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
41. If it didn't get a cute nickname it's down the crapper.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:49 PM
Jun 2013

I only remember the funny names like Yellowcake and mobile germ lab. The others I need to look up.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
35. It's a great combo!
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:24 PM
Jun 2013

Remember those pictures of Stalin, looking so serious at his desk?

I'm told that he was marking people on lists to be shipped off to Siberia to be slave labor and sized for coffins.

We're just skipping the middle step and doing it by remote control...Progress, Comrade!

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
46. Hi Jarla, he's talking about the drone story that came out last May.
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:57 PM
Jun 2013

The one that launched a thousand chips, so to speak.

p.s. welcome!

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
55. Well, if you think we're in peacetime, we're not.
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 12:17 AM
Jun 2013

Might look like we're in peacetime, but in reality, we've never been, except perhaps for a few years at the beginning of the 20th century, and between the two world wars.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
59. This is a problem. Perhaps the biggest threat to the US since confederation.
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 12:34 AM
Jun 2013

It's "bipartisan", it's promoted by the most powerful in both parties.
It can't be fixed with a *cough* debate, or a few crumbs thrown to appease. It's wrong, criminally wrong, and very very deeply rooted.

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
62. Read "The Way of the Knife". You have no idea.
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 12:44 AM
Jun 2013

[div style="float: left; padding-right: 12px;"]"A Pulitzer Prize–winning reporter’s riveting account of the transformation of the CIA and America’s special operations forces into man-hunting and killing machines in the world’s dark spaces: the new American way of war

The most momentous change in American warfare over the past decade has taken place away from the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq, in the corners of the world where large armies can’t go. The Way of the Knife is the untold story of that shadow war: a campaign that has blurred the lines between soldiers and spies and lowered the bar for waging war across the globe. America has pursued its enemies with killer drones and special operations troops; trained privateers for assassination missions and used them to set up clandestine spying networks; and relied on mercurial dictators, untrustworthy foreign intelligence services, and proxy armies.

This new approach to war has been embraced by Washington as a lower risk, lower cost alternative to the messy wars of occupation and has been championed as a clean and surgical way of conflict. But the knife has created enemies just as it has killed them. It has fomented resentments among allies, fueled instability, and created new weapons unbound by the normal rules of accountability during wartime."

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-way-of-the-knife-mark-mazzetti/1114036105?ean=9781594204807

noise

(2,392 posts)
64. What is the big deal
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 12:49 AM
Jun 2013

about a bunch of officials sitting around eating donuts, checking last night's sports scores on their i-phones while they decide who needs to be murdered based on private contractor derived intel?

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
66. It's shocking that Manny Goldstein has not already been killed by the Obama Death Squads
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 12:55 AM
Jun 2013

Given how effectively subversive he is!!!!

Sarcastic Third Wayism, FOREVAH!!!!

It's sooooooo dangerous.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
67. Bad combo, yes, but....
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 01:02 AM
Jun 2013

.... a drop of sugar helps the medicine go down. What else can you do BUT chill?

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
70. They should subcontract it. The Mafia is good at this kind of thing....and cheaper than the CIA.
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 02:11 AM
Jun 2013

Flashier dressers and they know how to handle Whistle Blowers.

JustAnotherGen

(31,810 posts)
78. Not anymore
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 08:23 AM
Jun 2013

Cosa Nostra (Mafia) is on a down swing.


Ndrengheta in Italy is more good old boy by Italian standards. And it literally comes out of the Southern Mountain Regions there. IE No hair gel. That will get a man's ass whooped in my husband's home town in Calabria.

sheshe2

(83,730 posts)
73. Manny, please correct me if I am wrong here~
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 03:43 AM
Jun 2013
You said

So the White House definitely has a secret kill list.

And is likely secretly recording every phone conversation and email we send.

Both are unprecedented in the US, certainly in peacetime.


Are we not still at war? In Afghanistan? Recently ended the war in Iraq? We are both talking about Bushcos war? The one that was paid for on a credit card. There infinity limit wrought havoc on our economy. They crashed it. Everyone runs around and says the bankers killed us. Well sorry the Bush administration caused this havoc!
Both are unprecedented in the US, certainly in peacetime.


We are at Peace while we are still at war!??!How can that be?
And if you will, please post the link to the secret kill lists~ Thanks!



I am a little confused by your statement?!??!

I look forward to your clarifications. sheshe2

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
75. Technically, the US doesn't go to war anymore. That meme is only used
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 08:10 AM
Jun 2013

to whip up nationalistic jingoism that supports international adventures whose purpose is the acquisition of resources and treasure for corporations.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
87. You're right, and I'm doubly wrong
Sat Jun 22, 2013, 11:29 AM
Jun 2013

We are kinda at war, so you're right about that.

What I specifically had in mind was the censoring of letters between military and family during WWII. Obama's programs are infinitely more invasive than the WWII program. So I'll update the OP to simply state "unprecedented", rather than have the wartime qualifier.

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