General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo the White House definitely has a secret kill list
Last edited Sat Jun 22, 2013, 11:29 AM - Edit history (1)
And is likely secretly recording every phone conversation and email we send.
Both are unprecedented in the US.
Anyone else thinking this is a bad combo? Should I just toss back some GABA agonist and chill? Or is there a problem?
villager
(26,001 posts)n/t
Demeter
(85,373 posts)as we sit in this handbasket to hell...
Hatchling
(2,323 posts)At least we got the change part. Not so much the hope.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)now I have to support Paul, too?
Do I have to support his hair? No can do.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Only a Libertarian would speak out against a secret kill list.
I trust Obama.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I'm out of the closest.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Why not. Perhaps I should give it a whirl.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Even if there is a secret kill list we don't have worry if we haven't done anything wrong.
bobduca
(1,763 posts)"And it's legal, because they passed secret laws, and swore the senators to secrecy at the briefing. All branches of govt. have signed off on it."
"I work as a private contractor NSA conusltant do you want me to paste a bunch of nonsense property names about metadata?"
"Hey it was illegal under Bush"
"I bet Snowden got money from the CHINEEEESSE!!!"
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)They're gonna decide who's naughty or nice
Then they'll blow the bad ones, to m-i-i-i-st....
bobduca
(1,763 posts)Do you disagree with my postulate?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)1. Please define "terrorist"
2. Who decides on who is a terrorist? Who decides on the punishment?
3. Is the process subject to any public scrutiny?
bobduca
(1,763 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)A terrorists is anyone that challenges the authoritarian state. E.g., Occupy.
The authoritarian state gets to decide who is a terrorist and what the punishment is.
And I am guessing you are joking about the public scrutiny.
Of course in the name of democracy, the public gets to vote on who gets to be the authoritarian figurehead leader.
The tough question is who is behind the figurehead? Who is included in the cabal running our government. Who is forcing our figurehead president to appoint the same economic leaders that Bush had and the same guys Bush had as security leaders?
RKP5637
(67,103 posts)the time. Individuals might be great under one regime and declared evil under the next. It is ALL relative to whom TPTB are at a point in time. And, these same tools will be used by that particular regime. When I was kid it was the communists are coming, the Russians are gonna get us ... now, it's the terrorists are gonna get us. Same old, same old. It's also the cloak and dagger secrecy.
And predictive analysis ... individuals declared a threat because they are interested in more than vogue inane dribble. ... those questioning our direction as a country declared a threat to TPTB ... possibly. Imagine what could be built as a profile from DU postings alone, for example. All of this starts to remind me of the KGB.
J Edgar Hoover and Joe McCarty would have loved tools like this. I often think many Americans are woefully forgetting history when countries proceed down this path.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Th1onein
(8,514 posts)The executive branch cannot act as judge, jury and executioner.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 21, 2013, 11:42 PM - Edit history (1)
bobduca
(1,763 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Well?
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Judge Judy1!!.. No
It's on the tip of my tongue. All that passive aggression is so characteristic, but I'm having the a hard time with remembering The Name Of The Person Who Does That Crap.
dflprincess
(28,075 posts)They know if you've sent tweets
They know if you're on Facebook or not
So be discrete for your own sake.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)sheshe2
(83,730 posts)Boston Rock's................Sorry you were not able to make it to this post about Boston. Being a Watertown
Native resident thought you might belatedly want to kick it. I know you love Boston.
Boston got blown away, so to speak on April 15th. Our patriots day, our Marathon. They were blown into the mist.
Sad because they were not the bad ones they were the good ones. Three souls died! Sixteen people lost limbs.
I still cry~
Remember shelter in place, yea me too. LOL we were called sheeple...we were mindless bots. The police cowered us. We were called that everywhere. We were called that on DU. They droned away over and over about how stupid we were.Mindless.
I am so glad that Boston proved them wrong! Aren't you?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022925554
Dear Boston! Let's show the world we care!
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)But thanks for sharing it.
The whole "Watertown was a police state" thing is weird. Either you and I are deluded, or much of the rest of the country doesn't have cops who are helpful, not nuts.
I'm actually a Newtonian, but Newton Corner, so spitting distance to Watertown.
Rise Rebel Resist
(88 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Backs away slowly
Octafish
(55,745 posts)So, when I see the rich getting richer and the forever wars expanding I...think it's a coincidence.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)RKP5637
(67,103 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Just look forwards and never ever look at those pesky history books
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)LOL.
longship
(40,416 posts)I guess it maybe is not so secret.
Or maybe it's just somebody making shit up.
But who's to know the difference?
Should I be looking for drones under my bed? I know I have dust bunnies under there, so it wouldn't surprise me.
And the big power line in my front yard has a helicopter fly down it twice a month, which is a rare thing here in the national forest unless you're growing pot, or you live next to a big assed power line. Frankly, the power company could save a lot of money by ditching that copter and using a unmanned drone. The insurance costs alone would likely save a bundle, let alone the fuel. Alas, that's the price we pay for reliable electric service out here in the bush. At least I am an owner. It's a CO-OP electric company. And I don't mind the twice monthly overflights as long as the damned 220KVolt lines stay up on the towers and not in my yard. Maybe I ought to suggest that they enlist some high school students building them a drone to do the same as their twice monthly copter. Might be a good savings on everybody's bill.
As always, thanks for your posts. They are high quality.
progressoid
(49,977 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Kill list story is over a year old.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Nobody on DU knows about my gender reassignment surgery, and they're not about to find out now, dammit!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)But you do remember Bimbo alerts and who issued them, right? and why? That part isn't so funny.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I don't remember.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)to Bimbo eruptions in the Clinton era, a couple of the more famous eruptees being Paula Jones and Gennifer Flowers. So bimbo alerts made you want to turn of the TV and listen to music instead of NPR for a week or two.
Back in the day. . . .
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Not-quite senior moment, I guess!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)is that the secret kill list is basically Gennifer Flowers by another name and seeing it revived here yet again after a year of non-stop drone outrages kind of gives me déjà vu feeling.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)I keep forgetting.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)better not go there tho . . .
JustAnotherGen
(31,810 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Is that the connections between these two is at the very least troubling.
Care to look into those history books and how kill lists and state surveillance were connected....have been connected?
"Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it" or words to that effect from Santayana apply here.
Hey, at least one of those regimes, and trust me, it wasn't just one, burned books. These days we don't have to worry...willful ignorance makes burning books not necessary.
And before you scream nazi, I said one of many. You think only the Nazis did that? The soviets, Pinochet Chile, Argentina, Spain, the Killing fields, the Great Leap Forward, central America in the 1980s...and those are just the tip of that...
I know I know, it's legal (a disgusting talking point on it's own) and this could never happen here....
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)kinda totals me.
It suddenly looks, to me, more like the infrastructure of a totalitarian wet dream, rather than a single awful idea.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)in 3 easy steps:
1- The first step is to admit that leftist pundits so reliable we can set our watches by them if we still wore watches are as full of baloney as Rush, Billo and Glenn. Glenn B that is.
2 - The next step is to realize that the only way to know what's actually going on after reading or hearing the news is to come here and check ProSense's threads. Well there are other ways I suppose but that's a good short cut.
3 - The last step is to figure out how to stop worrying and love DU without getting pissed off by certain other prominent threads and that one I'm still working on but I think we're all making progress so life is good.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Becomes the accepted norm and after a decade or so a true totalitarian becomes chief executive. Then we'll pine for the days when it was just complaints about water quality that could land you on a list.
If there is even a shred of the idealism within Obama that drew us to him then he has to be the one to end this madness. If he won't do it on his own then we must demand it be done because it is only a matter of time until a true authoritarian gets into office. The longer we tolerate this the longer it has a chance to insulate itself.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Boy, are we out of sync with the times!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I only remember the funny names like Yellowcake and mobile germ lab. The others I need to look up.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)bobduca
(1,763 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)So it is not DU/PC to say that.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)I don't have to think anymore... whoopie.
jsr
(7,712 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)Remember those pictures of Stalin, looking so serious at his desk?
I'm told that he was marking people on lists to be shipped off to Siberia to be slave labor and sized for coffins.
We're just skipping the middle step and doing it by remote control...Progress, Comrade!
Jarla
(156 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)The one that launched a thousand chips, so to speak.
p.s. welcome!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Apparently if a story is more than a week old it is a non story.
Look forward...
(One of these days I expect a real memory hole)
Jarla
(156 posts)Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)Don't take the GABA agonist, you want to be alert at all times.
rug
(82,333 posts)Amonester
(11,541 posts)Might look like we're in peacetime, but in reality, we've never been, except perhaps for a few years at the beginning of the 20th century, and between the two world wars.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Amonester
(11,541 posts)And I'm not sure if any other sh*t war was on also.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)delrem
(9,688 posts)It's "bipartisan", it's promoted by the most powerful in both parties.
It can't be fixed with a *cough* debate, or a few crumbs thrown to appease. It's wrong, criminally wrong, and very very deeply rooted.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)[div style="float: left; padding-right: 12px;"]"A Pulitzer Prizewinning reporters riveting account of the transformation of the CIA and Americas special operations forces into man-hunting and killing machines in the worlds dark spaces: the new American way of war
The most momentous change in American warfare over the past decade has taken place away from the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq, in the corners of the world where large armies cant go. The Way of the Knife is the untold story of that shadow war: a campaign that has blurred the lines between soldiers and spies and lowered the bar for waging war across the globe. America has pursued its enemies with killer drones and special operations troops; trained privateers for assassination missions and used them to set up clandestine spying networks; and relied on mercurial dictators, untrustworthy foreign intelligence services, and proxy armies.
This new approach to war has been embraced by Washington as a lower risk, lower cost alternative to the messy wars of occupation and has been championed as a clean and surgical way of conflict. But the knife has created enemies just as it has killed them. It has fomented resentments among allies, fueled instability, and created new weapons unbound by the normal rules of accountability during wartime."
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-way-of-the-knife-mark-mazzetti/1114036105?ean=9781594204807
Agony
(2,605 posts)Cheerio
WillyT
(72,631 posts)noise
(2,392 posts)about a bunch of officials sitting around eating donuts, checking last night's sports scores on their i-phones while they decide who needs to be murdered based on private contractor derived intel?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I'm heading straight for the GABA agonist!
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Given how effectively subversive he is!!!!
Sarcastic Third Wayism, FOREVAH!!!!
It's sooooooo dangerous.
ReRe
(10,597 posts).... a drop of sugar helps the medicine go down. What else can you do BUT chill?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Flashier dressers and they know how to handle Whistle Blowers.
JustAnotherGen
(31,810 posts)Cosa Nostra (Mafia) is on a down swing.
Ndrengheta in Italy is more good old boy by Italian standards. And it literally comes out of the Southern Mountain Regions there. IE No hair gel. That will get a man's ass whooped in my husband's home town in Calabria.
Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)PB
sheshe2
(83,730 posts)And is likely secretly recording every phone conversation and email we send.
Both are unprecedented in the US, certainly in peacetime.
Are we not still at war? In Afghanistan? Recently ended the war in Iraq? We are both talking about Bushcos war? The one that was paid for on a credit card. There infinity limit wrought havoc on our economy. They crashed it. Everyone runs around and says the bankers killed us. Well sorry the Bush administration caused this havoc!
We are at Peace while we are still at war!??!How can that be?
And if you will, please post the link to the secret kill lists~ Thanks!
I am a little confused by your statement?!??!
I look forward to your clarifications. sheshe2
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)to whip up nationalistic jingoism that supports international adventures whose purpose is the acquisition of resources and treasure for corporations.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)We are kinda at war, so you're right about that.
What I specifically had in mind was the censoring of letters between military and family during WWII. Obama's programs are infinitely more invasive than the WWII program. So I'll update the OP to simply state "unprecedented", rather than have the wartime qualifier.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,810 posts)If I'm on it?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)See?
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)sorry .....that`s so 60`s.