These Catholic Bishops make me FURIOUS

[HockeyMom]

I parted company with the Church at 15 years old. So why do I, and especially my daughters, have to be FORCED to live under THEIR rules? YOUR religous rights END where MINE begin. What can't they understand about this? They have no right to tell me, my daughter, or anyone else who doesn't share their beliefs, how they must live their lives. I, and other women, including my daughter, will have as many children as SHE and her husband decides, NOT CATHOLIC RELIGION. If she wants to prevent children from being conceived and uses BC, she has THAT RIGHT in a country where there is separation of church and state. No Church, Government, or Politician has the right to tell her and her husband how many, or IF ANY, children to have.

My older daughter is a lesbian who is engaged to marry in NY. YOUR church doesn't have to marry her, BUT you do not have the right to tell her she cannot marry. She doesn't belong to YOUR RELIGION and will have a CIVIL Marriage CONTRACT, which is just as valid a marriage as any straight couple who doesn't marry in a church.

If you believe in their faith, that is your business, but it is EVERYBODY'S business when they try to impose their beliefs on ALL PEOPLE.

[RKP5637]

1. Excellent!!! Very well said and I agree all the way. I am fed up with these jerks. n/t

[valerief]

2. He who has the gold makes the rules. nt

[gratuitous]

3. IF, and that's IF, they believe what they're saying

The Bishops have no choice but to be forceful advocates for their position, as does anyone who believes they're 100% in the right.

The mystifying thing to me is why so many people sign onto the Bishops' framing of this issue. I suppose I can understand other Catholics, but popular media outlets aren't Catholic (I don't think), and yet, they present the Bishops' argument as if it were Holy Writ, not to be questioned, instead of just one position (and a minority position at that) out of many in the arena of ideas.

My beef is with the talking chuckleheads who can't figure this out, aided and abetted by cynical political types taking advantage of the situation to pretend that there's some First Amendment violation going on.

[HopeHoops]

4. "There's a dead bishop on the landing."

- Monty Python.

[hifiguy]

27. Klaus: Really?

M: Where's it from?

S: Waddya mean?

M: What's its diocese?

Son: Well, it looked a bit Bath and Wells-ish to me...

K: (getting up and going out the door) I'll go and have a look.

Mum: I don't know...kids bringin' 'em in here....

S: It's not me!

M: I've got three of 'em down by the bin, and the dustmen won't touch 'em!

K: (coming back in) Leicester.

M: 'Ow d'you know?

K: Tattooed on the back o' the neck. I'll call the police.

M: Shouldn't you call the church?

S: Call the church police!

K: All right. (shouting) THE CHURCH POLICE !!

(sirens racing up, followed by a tremendous crash) (the church police burst in the door)

Detective: What's all this then, Amen!

M: Are you the church police?

All the police officers: (in unison) Ho, Yes!

M: There's another dead bishop on the landing, Vicar Sargeant!

Detective: Uh, Detective Parson, madam. I see... suffrican, or diocisian?

M: 'Ow should I know?

D: It's tatooed on the back o' their neck. (spying the tart) 'Ere, is that.... rat tart?

M: yes.

(pause)

D: Disgusting! Right! Men, the chase is on! Now we should all kneel!

(they all kneel)

All: O Lord, we beseech thee, tell us 'oo croaked Leicester!

(thunder)

Voice of the Lord: The one in the braces, 'e done it!

Klaus: It's a fair cop, but society's to blame.

Detective: Agreed. We'll be charging them too.

K: I'd like you to take the three by the bin into consideration.

D: Right. I'll now ask you all to conclude this harrest with a hymn

[Kingofalldems]

5. The Church has been infiltrated by the republicans

All one has to do is watch EWTN, they have political panel 'discussions' where the entire panel consists of repub activists, such as Kate O'Beirne and others. It is actually worse that Fox news.

[CatholicEdHead]

21. Yep

the same thing goes in with (ir)Relevant Radio and Ave Maria Radio. It is GOP radio all the time. Ave Maria Radio actually has a Catholic Rush clone on air. You cannot tune in for long without loosing your lunch.

[we can do it]

6. Catholic Bishops and Funduhmentalist Bigots Make Me Sick

they need to keep their shit to themselves..they have the freedom to have their kooky ideas, we should have the freedom from it.

[SharonAnn]

11. Catholic bishops = men in dresses. Why pay attention to them?

[libinnyandia]

7. I kind of feel sorry for the bishops. They must have trouble sleeping at night knowing that over 90%

of their flock are sinning and there is nothing they can do about it except trying to outlaw abc. The polls showing how many Catholics disagree with them must cause them headaches )

[Aerows]

8. They and the GOP

have crapped in their proverbial mess kit over this issue and don't realize it yet. The fact that women take it so that they don't get pregnant and therefore can't have abortions, has exposed them as not being anywhere near concerned about "pro-life". The fact that they don't want birth control for women whom have health issues for which birth control can prevent pain, complications or surgery reveals that they don't care about women's health.

What it has revealed is that they don't care about anything other than placing women under the thumb of men, and do not care about medical privacy, medical care, or patient/doctor confidentiality unless it's for men. If it's for men, then everyone needs to shut up and let men run things and tend to their own medical affairs.

I don't think either group realizes the enormity of what their message has turned out to be, and it has soured many women on both religion and the GOP.

[spanone]

9. i quit the church about the same age....all they talked about was money

while i daydreamed and looked at all the gold and silver and costly robes etc.....

by the way, this was in the sixties and ALL the moms i knew were taking birth control

[niyad]

10. k and r and well said. I left the church (and got tossed out) for being pro-choice and daring

to argue with the male, supposedly celibate, hierarchy

[WCGreen]

12. Absofucking lutely....

Freedom of Religion is also Freedom FROM religion....

[w8liftinglady]

13. Amazing how many FEMALE ex-Catholics there are out there.

You can count all of my mom's side of the family.

[tsuki]

14. And here. So, I am wondering, just who is filling out those tithing cards?

Down here in the south, it was mostly the women. They were the ones with control of family finances. Dad brought home his paycheck, never wrote a check in his life, got his allowance, and Mom dispersed the remainder, including tithing.

I tell women, tear up the card. Give where it will do the best, not pay for baby raping.

[HockeyMom]

16. Amazing how many ex-NUNS there are out there

Or maybe that is because first and foremost they too are FEMALE. If the Catholic hierarcy treats women in general so badly, it is even worse for Nuns. They don't make babies and new parishoners.

[mrs_p]

41. ex-nun here

and, ex-catholic...

wonder if there are anymore on DU

[amuse bouche]

15. Too bad they're

not as concerned with all the molestors they protect, as they are about birth control

They are a hideous joke

[DearAbby]

17. Responsible people manage the size of their families

I view birth control as a responsibility. It is good for my family, and good for the country. This isn't about being responsible, this is about control. Let's just come right out and say it.

[RainDog]

35. I view birth control as an issue of personal responsibility as well

I think it is irresponsible to not use birth control when you cannot afford to raise a child. If you're going to have sex - use protection if you're not in a position to be a parent. pretty simple.

obviously, not all of life is that simple - but for most of us, it's a matter of accepting cause and effect.

It's also not good for the planet to have large families. Once upon a time it was "useful" - b/c kids were unpaid farm labor. Once we moved beyond a feudal economy - not so much.

I think this "no birth control" teaching from the church is the height of irresponsibility.

[riverbendviewgal]

18. This is extremism

I can not see the difference from this extremism in Catholics and the extremism in Islam.

Religion to me is dishonest and oppressive.

[we can do it]

33. Me Either, and Don't Forget the Evanghellicles

[cbrer]

19. Think about the minds of Adherents!

Scary shit there...

[aaaaaa5a]

20. Bishops are just politicians. Religion is just political ideology. PERIOD. nt

[customerserviceguy]

22. Do you and your daughters work for Catholic institutions?

If not, then this doesn't affect you or them directly. It affects people who work to further the Catholic agenda through institutions that they consider "good works" to spread their religion. Why wouldn't that come without a price?

Your daughter in NY can marry, because enough NY'ers have thrown off the yoke of the Catholic church. When people stop supporting their enterprises, then maybe they will die off as they should have done at least half a century ago.

[HockeyMom]

28. I turned one down and told my son-in-law not to apply

Morals clause. You work in a Catholic school and you have to sign their "morals" clause that you will follow their faith, even on your private time, or you can be fired. My son-in-law, who was raised Catholic but didn't attend Catholic school, was told he would have to take Religion courses to teach EARTH SCIENCE. Huh? They told me I would be exempt because I went to Catholic school for 12 years. I don't teach anything. I am a TA. I told my son-in-law, that as an old lady, they couldn't get much on me, but if they found out his wife was using "artifical" birth control, he could be fired under that Morals Clause. You want to live like that? Have them dictact your private married life?

Contrast this. I was offered a job at a Yeshiva. The Rabbi knew I was not a Jew. Just asked me a few general questions about the Jewish religion. He said as long as I didn't wear a cross, eat a Ham sandwich or Cheeseburger, during WORK, he didn't care what I did on my own time. He was really cool. He said I could roast a pig with an apple in its mouth in my backyard and invite half the town for all he cared. He only care what I did AT WORK.

Contrast THAT to what the Catholic Church wants to require of their employees, Catholic or not, to do on their OWN TIME in the PERSONAL BEDROOMS.

[customerserviceguy]

34. Was there a specific prohibition in the Catholic school contract

that said you couldn't buy and use your own contraception? That's different from making them pay for it.

Did you feel that you wanted the rabbi in the yeshiva to directly buy the pig for your backyard roast? If not, then perhaps you can see how the RCC bishops are going to sway their flocks on this issue. If anyone can remain Catholic after the pedophile scandals, then they're pre-selected to accept the bishops' BS.

[HockeyMom]

39. No, even if you buy them yourself

It is "immoral" to use them. That morals contract means you have to live your life according to the Catholic teachings. Divorce and remarriage would be another violation of the morals clause.

This is why I keep saying that this isn't just about paying for contraceptives by the Church. They don't want their employees, or anybody, using them. While they believe that barrier methods are unacceptable, the Pill, IUD, Morning After Pill, are considered ABORTION, and that is even worse.

If their employees want to live their lives according to this religion, that is their business, but if you don't, then it is far better to work for a secular organization. However, they want to try to tell SECULAR organizations (might have Catholic employees who object!!!) or public employees,they they should not OFFER or pay for contraceptives.

This is where they are attempting to force THEIR religious views on society at large. Separation of church and state. This is SO WRONG.

[customerserviceguy]

40. Ok, if you divorced and remarried

then it would be a matter of public record. How was this Catholic institution going to know what you, your doctor, and your pharmacist had going regarding contraception? Did they have a clause in the contract that allowed them to search a person's medicine cabinet on a regular basis?

Yes, the RCC doesn't want anyone using contraception, we all know that. However, their ability to enforce their wishes is extremely limited, being as a large majority of Catholics just do whatever the hell they want. But those same Catholics want to keep on pretending that they don't use them, and they would be aghast at any suggestion that the bishops countenance the use, or pay for them in even indirect ways.

The problem with most people here is that they expect that Catholics act in straightforward ways, speaking, acting and living their private beliefs. It just simply isn't so.

[HockeyMom]

48. HS fired a male teacher

for getting a vasectomy. It got a lot of BAD publicity where I used to live. Actually, Long Island. While he obviously didn't submit any claims for it, maybe he inadverently mentioned it? I know when my husband had his he had troubling sitting and walking for a few days. Maybe somebody noticed it, asked why, and he told them? I really don't know the specifics of how they found out.

However, the students and parents were VERY upset he was fired. Parents threatened to withold tuition until he was rehired. The school relented, and got rid of the Morals Clause too.

I remember one mother said they should open up their eyes and see how many siblings the students had. If they "fired" all the students whose parents used BC, they would have to close the school. Very true.

[customerserviceguy]

51. Wow, that's pretty medieval of them

Even though the teacher got his job back in the end, the fact that they would invade this man's privacy to that extent proves he shouldn't be helping them spread this nasty form of the religion.

[quiller4]

36. Catholic institutions are already offering contraceptive coverage to employees

The bishops just don't want to admit that publicly. The vast majority of Catholic colleges and universities offer contraceptive coverage: Loyola Marymount, Santa Clara, Seattle University and Gonzaga are just a few of the universities that have been offering such coverage for a decade or more. Even many diocese provide contraceptive coverage to their employeees through Group Health and Kaiser Permanente.

I'm a cradle Catholic. I am also retired from religious social service. On my last job with a Catholic agency our group plan covered contraceptives with the same co-pay we had for all prescriptions. That was in 2003. I was 20+ years past menopause then so it didn't mean much to me personally but it was important to my younger co-workers.

The bishops don't really want a policy accomodation. They also don't want to change their insurance coverage for employees. Especially the hospitals know they wouldn't be competitive in the battle to recruit and retain nurses if they didn't offer coverage comparable to that of other, non-religious affiliated hospitals.

The bishops just want to make enough noise to satisfy their conservative donors.

[customerserviceguy]

38. Aren't the institutions you mention

located in states that require employers to cover contraception? Especially ones where the RCC has very little sway with the voters, even though there are a sizable number of nominal Catholics?

If they don't seem to have any real objection to providing contraception coverage, then why all the fuss when the contraception-for-all theme is applied on a national level? I think they just are simply stuck in the places where they are forced to offer it, and no amount of bitching and whining will make a ding dong damn worth of difference. Of course, that griping might mean something during Republicon primary season when Sicky Ricky is up against the Mormon and the (probably fake) convert.

[tsuki]

42. Wrong. We had a Catholic hospital imposed on us here, and they do not accept living

wills because you should suffer when you die as it brings you closer to God, that is, according to their superstitions. And that is everyone of any faith or not. They want to rule.

But, they don't have a problem sucking long and hard at the tax trough even if the money comes from the immoral. They are government funded for their "charities", hospitals, hospices, and all their "good works". They use their church moneys to hide pedophiles, fund Prop H-Eight, fund the War on Women.

Give these assholes an inch, they will try to take coast to coast.

The time to stop them is now.

[iscooterliberally]

23. If the bishops want to legislate from the pulpit they should have to pay taxes. n/t

Last edited Fri Feb 17, 2012, 01:25 PM - Edit history (1)

[RainDog]

43. exactly n/t

[Citizen Worker]

24. Telling that the church hierarchy doesn't voice any indignation over the pedophiles in their ranks.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

25. What if they just wanted to make sure you packed lunches with vegetables in them?

[HockeyMom]

30. I actually told him I just eat fruit, yogurt, or tossed salad at lunch

As I said, he had a sense of humor, "No problem. We all need to watch our waistlines".

[sibelian]

26. Absolutely.

They regard the human ideleogical landscape as their rightful property. They are manipulative and untrustworthy and no-one ought to have anything to do with them.

[closeupready]

29. Amen, is all I can say. Big K&R

nt

[RainDog]

44. you're a repulsive woman-hating pos nt

[uppityperson]

47. It's dead

[RainDog]

49. I know. I posted that after the kill

I just wanted to express my opinion about this person.

Because, honestly, only a scumbag or some limp-dick basement dweller would say such a thing. If this person had been in my presence, he or she would be missing a couple of teeth now if I had anything to say about it.

[Redstate Bluegirl]

32. To heck with the bishops!

It's guys like this you gotta watch out for!

[Zookeeper]

37. What about their selective blindness?

They have to notice that the families filling the pews have 1 or 2 children, whereas a few decades ago they had 4, 5, 6, or more. So, either the Rhythm Method suddenly became effective, or (GEE!) those women must be using birth control!

So, if they are so committed to the Church's position banning artificial birth control, why don't they start excommunicating women who use it? Perhaps, instead of trying to force their doctrine on non-Catholics, they should enforce their rules with their own congregations.

Hmmm. Could the problem be that they would end up broke and with empty churches?

These "holy" men and their hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.

[janet118]

45. The real problem is employer-based health insurance . . .

why should employers decide what kind of health care people get? I don't care if it's the Catholic Church or Wal-mart, take the employer out of the equation. Take private insurance out of the equation. Take religion out of the equation. Affordable universal health care is what we need and should have. Use the power of numbers to force drug companies to stop gouging Americans. Standardize paperwork to lower administrative expenses at hospitals and clinics.

The right wing is really just a front for the middlemen who take their cut by sticking their grubby hands between Americans and health care. Our health care system is the laughing stock of the world. It is inefficient and favors the wealthy over the poor and middle-class. It costs more for worse outcomes. The fact that so many Americans are deluded into thinking that we are not being fleeced by pharmaceutical and insurance companies is a tribute to the right-wing noise machine, poor critical thinking skills and the corporate media.

As for the Catholic bishops, they have no credibility whatsoever after the child molestation debacle. They should not be the ones preaching morality.

[RainDog]

46. exactly

there is no reason Americans should have to have their health care mediated by a corporation or a religion.

[Arugula Latte]

50. They belong to a twisted, medieval institution

They get to play dress up and wear funny hats. It's No Girlz Allowed in the positions of power, so that makes them better than the girls, see? For centuries, they've lorded it over the peons with their massive wealth. They get off on telling people what to do, including the damn gays. (Never mind that probably a vast majority of them are closet cases.) And if some of them rape some kids, so what? How dare people tell them how to conduct their special club?

They are submerged in this warped atmosphere, and their arrogance and unmitigated gall grows unchecked.