"Are you nuts?"

[MrScorpio]

[napoleon_in_rags]

1. Ah, the "free market" health insurance.

Where you have no choice over which product to buy whatsoever, and can never change jobs for better pay (participate in free market) if you rely on benefits from your current employer.

[hfojvt]

2. sometimes you feel like a nut ...

I find the cartoon to be odd. I am trapped in my job, not because I need health insurance, but because I need a paycheck.

[Javaman]

6. So you would be okay without healtcare?

or don't you have any?

[hfojvt]

9. if I lost my healthcare but still had my job

then I could pay for healthcare. If, otoh, I lost my job but still had healthcare, then I could not, after a couple of years, pay for my home or for food, etc. I am pretty sure my health would suffer in that case.

[csziggy]

11. Many jobs in this country don't pay enough to be able to afford health care without insurance

So I don't get how a paycheck will make a difference if a serious health crisis comes up.

My husband works to get health insurance for the two of us - without him working a crappy job that has low pay good benefits, we could not get insurance at any cost. While the possibility of getting insurance is now addressed with the Health Care Act, there would still be a serious problem with being able to afford what might be offered.

Since 2001 I've had five major operations - each one without health insurance would have cost about what our annual income is. We might could have been able to scrape up the money or made payment arrangements, but it would have slowed down the treatments and caused us a lot of economic pain.

Now I'm facing knee replacement for both knees - that will cost probably three to four times our annual income. As it is, WITH insurance my out of pocket expenses will be about 1/4 to 1/3 of our annual income. It's going to put a crimp in our lifestyle for several years. If the doctor refuses to do both knees at the same time and I have to go through the operation, hospital stay, rehab and physical therapy twice, double that out of pocket expense and we will be in serious financial hurt just as my husband wants to retire. And he really needs to have his knees looked at, but has been delaying it so we can take care of mine.

Without my husband's employer provided health insurance, I'd just have to settle for being non-mobile because I would not be able to afford new knees.

[Javaman]

12. +1 nt

[Beavker]

13. +1

My wife and I could dump our dead end jobs that we have in an area we don't necessarily want to live in, and thankfully, could live with her Mom almost literally free of charge in a place we'd like to live. However...we, and my 3 year old, would not have health insurance and that is a deal breaker. I can mooch for a few months on a loaned room and food, ride a bike here and there, sell my TV's, go with super cheap pay as you go cell phones, etc....but no one could help pay for a major surgery.

[csziggy]

27. Yeah, and it hurts small businesses

We had a small business that we shut down when my husband went to work. I had started it by myself but as my injuries mounted, I could no longer do the work alone. Even when I was getting surgeries every other year, my husband could have kept the business going as long as I would have been able to supervise.

But without insurance, we could not afford to keep the business going. His having the job certainly helped out financially, but we could have survived if we'd had access to health care without it.

Same for my brother in law - he had a very prosperous cabinetry business going but when his youngest child was diagnosed with severe asthma he could no longer get insurance privately for his entire family. So he had to close his business and went to work for Disney at a series of positions that he detested until the day he died.

And the insurance that he gave up his dream business to get through the corporation? It only lasted as long as he could work. So even when he was diagnosed with Stage 4 pancreatic cancer, he still had to work to maintain his insurance coverage. He worked until two weeks before he died. As soon as Disney was notified of his death, my sister was given notice that the insurance coverage for the family was terminated.

Rather than being a burden for small businesses, availability of affordable insurance would be a big relief to many business owners and encourage more start ups, in my opinion.

[Zookeeper]

30. Thanks for sharing your story...

I would think that "Business" would be jumping at the chance to unload their health insurance costs onto the government, even if it meant they could no longer hold unhappy employees hostage.

[tblue37]

23. Unrealistic.

Few jobs in this country pay enough for the individual to buy health insurance on his own—only employer negotiated group plans are affordable, and then only with the employer picking up part of the cost.

And then there’s the problem that if you try to buy insurance on your own, without being part of the employer-negotiated group plan, there’s very little chance that you would be able to find an insurance company willing to insure you. Even apparently healthy young adults are often refused coverage if they have any family or personal background that the insurance company can claim to be a “previously existing condition.” They have denied coverage for adults who years earlier, as teenagers, suffered from acne! One case that hit the news a couple of years ago was about an infant who was denied coverage because he weighed more at birth than the insurance company liked.

The notion that as long as you have a job you can buy insurance is really rather unrealistic. Most people with full-time jobs could not possible buy insurance as individuals, either because they couldn’t afford it or because they couldn’t get an insurance company to cover them—or, even more commonly, both.

[hfojvt]

28. If the past is any guude ...

Currently my employer pays $637.33 per month for coverage described as 80/60. I could get 90/70 for another $32.46 per month, but it does not seem worth it. I used to pay for the 100% when it was offered, but it no longer is.

I have been insured for about 8 years, and over those 8 years have paid at least $48,000 in premiums.

My medical expenses have been
$12,400 for a few days in the hospital and an EGD and some ulcer medications
$3,000 for knee surgery
$2,000 for another EGD outpatient
let's say $500 for a few months of prevacid and some vicodin
perhaps $1,000 for some doctor visits and removal of a mole
another $1,000 for a stress test
$500 for three pairs of glasses
$400 for an emergency room visit

total cost, less than $25,000

I would have been significant money ahead if I had gotten the cash and paid for my own health care rather than having myself and my employer pay for health insurance. This is even more true for the last three years, or more, since my last EGD

[tblue37]

29. With that medical history, you would find it hard to get coverage at ANY price.

And though your medical expenses were less over that period than your premiums, if anything major were to go wrong--and chances of that are always good, especially as one ages--you would probably not be able to cover it.

[tblue37]

21. But you don't dare leave for another job unless you can be sure of getting healthcare (my situation)

[Warren DeMontague]

3. Yeah; if it didn't confer major benefits to the corporate poobahs who run things, you know it would

be out the door.

As it is, the crappy, ill-designed, expensive and inefficient system benefits the Powers-That-Be in that it is yet another thing that keeps the labor force in terror of losing their jobs, keeps labor costs down and keeps the worker drones from demanding a better deal.

Honestly, I think the two most terrifying things that happened to the power structure in the last 25 years were all the post cold war talk of the "peace dividend" (thank heavens Al Qaeda showed up to put a stop to THAT!) and the tech boom period when there actually was a shortage of employable people in this country, and companies had to start -ulp!~- competing for workers, instead of the other way around.

THANK GOD THAT'S OVER!

[phasma ex machina]

4. A frightened workforce is a pliant workforce.

[tavalon]

5. Absolutely

Employer tied health insurance is a form of wage slavery.

[Melissa G]

7. Absolutely True.

>>>Employer tied health insurance is a form of wage slavery.
should be repeated again and again. Single Payer Now! Not tied to employment.

[Gold Metal Flake]

8. Employer-based health insurance is a ball and chain.

[hifiguy]

10. Those who screech and yawp the loudest about "freedom"

are the first ones to get down on their knees and DEMAND to be enslaved by a corporate master. You can't fix that kind of stupid.

[abelenkpe]

15. +1000 nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Indeed

Well put!

[Populist_Prole]

18. Pithy statement of the day

Gotta use that one!

[Beartracks]

20. + another 1000 n/t

[tech_smythe]

26. you can... but it takes a LOT of work and dedication

education can solve almost everything.
but yeah... some people are determined to stay stupid and ignorant.
"... go ron paul" <-- case in point.

[annabanana]

14. Oh kick friggety KICK!!!. . (& REC/TWEET/FACE). . . . .n/t

[Demeter]

19. I'm getting there

Today made a lot of progress in that direction...and got to answer a Rick Santorum poll.

[Honeycombe8]

22. So true, so true! nt

[unkachuck]

24. "Once the government gets involved in health care, we won't be free!"

....well then, remain 'free' and suffer!

[tech_smythe]

25. You can't believe how many times i've heard this

and how hard it is for anyone to comprehend how much money will be saved on all sides.

they just refuse to accept the simple numbers.