Today, finally, Snowden was PROVEN a LIAR!

[MannyGoldstein]

Last edited Wed Jul 17, 2013, 11:08 PM - Edit history (1)

So some Liberals on DU have been going around thanking "Kremlin Eddie" Snowden for leaking the details of critical government operations. Further, they claim that the White House's NSA is spying on all Americans, collecting every bit of information they can get their hands on in case it's ever needed for a terror investigation, or to persuade Elizabeth Warren to be nice to bankers or else Holder puts her granddaughter in prison for that dime bag she bought.

Of course, knowing Democrats in the know, like myself, have said all along that these "Liberals" are full of crap. The NSA only collects tiny bits of carefully selected material, under the tight control of a well-informed Congress. As The Full Transparency president said:

“When it comes to telephone calls, every member of Congress has been briefed on this program,”
- The Fourth Amendment President

Today, Congress had a little pow-wow with the NSA and guess what - no surprise, we knowing Democrats were RIGHT as we knew all along. Suck it, Liberals!

Here's some telling bits of the discussion:

Congress threatens to curtail surveillance power over NSA phone data: ‘You’ve got a problem’

The sponsor of that bill, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., said Wednesday that Congress meant only to allow seizures directly relevant to national security investigations. No one expected the government to obtain every phone record and store them in a huge database to search later.

...

And unless you realize you’ve got a problem,” Sensenbrenner said, “that is not going to be renewed.”

He was followed by Rep. Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y., who picked up where his colleague left off. The problem, he said, is that the administration considers “everything in the world” relevant to fighting terrorism.

...

Yet one lawmaker, Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, said some members of Congress wouldn’t have known about the NSA surveillance without the sensational leaks: “Snowden, I don’t like him at all, but we would never have known what happened if he hadn’t told us.”

Proof positive that Congress KNEW, and they APPROVED it. So stop WHINING about the Rule of Law President.

Now, I certainly understand how most readers of this, having smaller minds than we movers and shakers, might misinterpret the quotes above. For example, how could “Snowden, I don’t like him at all, but we would never have known what happened if he hadn’t told us.” actually mean the good Senator did know about this all along, and did heartily approve of it all along?

It's like this: remember back when you were back in school, taking advanced math, and things always seemed to have minus signs in front of them for reasons you couldn't fathom? You thought the answer was 7, but you were WRONG because you're dumb, and the answer was really -7? The REAL game in Washington is like that: everyone in these hearings says the OPPOSITE of what they mean.

And don't get me started on "Benedict Arnold" Nadler. Nadler used to weigh a lot more before his cowardly gastric bypass surgery, and everyone knows that overweight people have poor hygiene, so Nadler probably just has sympathy for "Not in Morales' Plane That We didn't Force Down" Eddie Snowden who's rumored to go AN ENTIRE WEEK without cutting his fingernails. Ugh!

So, let this be the end of this sordid affair. Snowden will soon be frog marched to a solitary where he'll sleep naked without sheets and fully illuminated at all times. And all the Liberals will soon join him, once we finish analyzing their phone calls.

Remember! Big Brother is not really watching, although they see you in the corner of their eye, except they do watch when you're looking the other way but they look away when you look back at them.

Regards,

Third-Way Manny

[ProSense]

1. Actually,

"Today, finally, Snowden was PROVEN to be a LIAR!"

...today still proves he's a liar and a clown.

Bush's illegal spying was exposed in 2005 by Thomas Tamm. FISA has always been controversial and challenged by civil liberties groups and some lawmakers (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023009232). The notion that criticism of Snowdens actions that led him to reveal U.S. state secrets to other countries and find himself stuck in Russia have anything to do with anyone's opinion ongoing debate about NSA domestic programs is hogwash

Don't expect people to overlook Snowden's actions overseas simply because there are "doubts" about the program. Not going to happen.

Snowden is a delusional and self-important clown. He and Greenwald (and their supports) have done everything to help make the story about them.

First, Greenwald announces that he has enough information to bring down the U.S.

Snowden follows by declaring he's immune to torture.

He's applying for temporary asylum in Russia.

Doesn't get any more bizarre than that. Well...

Edward Snowden Declares Himself Torture-Proof
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023275112

If Snowden's case as a whistleblower is so strong, why is he afraid to face the consequences?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549

Sen. Tester Calls On Snowden To Return To America To ‘Face The Music’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023281426

Putin: U.S.-Russia Relations Greater Than Snowden

Russian President Vladimir Putin made it clear Wednesday that he holds his country's relationship with the United States in higher esteem than he does former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, Reuters reported.

When a reporter asked if the Snowden case would negatively affect a September summit between the U.S. and Russia in Moscow, Putin responded that "bilateral relations, in my opinion, are far more important than squabbles about the activities of the secret services," according to Reuters.

"We warned Mr. Snowden that any action by him that could cause damage to Russian-American relations is unacceptable for us," he added, as quoted by Reuters.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/putin-us-russia-relations-greater-than-snowden

[baldguy]

4. +1000

The idea that Snowden could be thought of as a "hero" by any intelligent, moderately well-informed, emotionally mature person just boggles the mind.

[RobertEarl]

13. All Snowden did was open the closed Secret doors

And for that he has to suffer all you people running around like deranged pitbulls snapping at everyone?

One could surmise you pitbulls are in favor of the secret doors remaining closed. Sure looks to be true.

[GoneFishin]

24. Yep. : " you pitbulls are in favor of the secret doors remaining closed."

Sure looks like it to me too. Then you have to ask yourself why would that be?

[RobertEarl]

36. Why would that be?

The best I can come up with is they are scared of something. That something may be the hole Obama has dug for himself; telling us he has it under control.

Well, Obama was wrong. It is out of control and is making Obama look bad.

[Maedhros]

138. The key is that these posters unleashing their Two Minute Hate on Snowden

have also behaved in the exactly same manner with regard to every issue that casts a bad light on the Administration:

* Indefinite detention
* Chained CPI and SSI "reform"
* Drone murder
* Failure to close Gitmo
* Preemptively killing the Public Option
* Repeated appointments of Republicans
* Unquestioning support of Israel
* Illegal use of force in Libya

You'd think that like most people these posters would agree with some of these things, oppose some of them and be neutral on others. Instead we see sneering, lockstep criticism of anyone disagreeing with these policies. Not arguments in good faith, seeking to find a common middle ground with vigorous debate.

Why? Blind partisanship is all I can think of.

[JEB]

144. Bingo!

Mustn't interrupt the flow of corporate money to their campaign coffers.

edit to add: Also must not interrupt the flow of money from the US Treasury into corporate hands such as Booz Allen Hamilton.

[ieoeja]

145. ?

Against * Indefinite detention
Against * Chained CPI and SSI "reform"
Support * Drone murder
Non-Sequitor * Failure to close Gitmo
Against * Preemptively killing the Public Option
Support some, against others * Repeated appointments of Republicans
Against * Unquestioning support of Israel
Support * Illegal use of force in Libya

As to guys who work in Intelligence, flee to Moscow, and fail to provide any secret information that everybody did not already know causing Moscow to ignore them ... I just hope the 2nd one never gets a job in a Texas schoolbook depository.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

154. I've noticed this, as well. nt

[A Simple Game]

176. But none of the items on that list are the fault of the

powerless hands are tied President Obama, it's all the fault of the All Powerful Congress and/or Republicans.

Then if you dare to mention how little he has gotten done it's, Oh, oh and look at all of the things the all powerful President Obama got done in spite of the evil Republicans and/or Congress!

I can't tell how many times I have seen both sentiments in the same post.

[baldguy]

37. Everyone has known about those "secret doors" for almost a decade.

They weren't really that secret.

[RobertEarl]

45. Don't kid yourself. Not even Obama let on.

Obama told us the other day something that was false about the NSA and its capabilities. So, not only have many DUers shown you the truth, but Obama tried to keep the door closed on you.

[Mojorabbit]

52. This is not true and no amt of continuous repeating of the meme will make it true. nt

[roguevalley]

139. i do not care who 'told'. they are doing it including

Obama. That makes all of them liars. Kill the messenger if you want. The message is unchanged. On this issue there is no daylight between bush and obama.

[Mojorabbit]

147. I totally agree. nt

[Marr]

81. Bullshit. /nt

[GeorgeGist]

97. I assume you don't include members of Congress as being members of everyone.

You may be right.

[Aerows]

109. If Obama is the bastion of love and light

What are you afraid of? What scares you with this coming to light?

If Obama has done nothing wrong, he shouldn't be afraid of scrutiny. Isn't that what the NSA tells us?

[BehindTheCurtain76]

170. Joke Thread

What a joke. This thread is almost out Of The Onion. Does the author work for NSA. Lol. In actual news, President Jimmy Carter said we are no longer a functioning democracy because of what NSA is doing. This thread is really the most pathetic, untrue spasm of the mouth I have seen yet.

[Matariki]

211. You got it. Onion and all

[Civilization2]

41. nailed it! these twits can only attempt to defame individuals yet not address the leaked info.

are funny as hell! Sad, more than a little pathetic, and funny as hell!

Stop wasting your overly abundant time making lame attempts to attack people and deal with the reality they have brought to light. Silly haters.

[SomethingFishy]

142. +1.. Considering that they have already won the debate..

Snowden is a fugitive, their spying methods are in place, the data center is almost done and anyone who even dares to say even the slightest thing in opposition is ostracized, you have to wonder why they keep hammering away.

[LiberalLovinLug]

74. Here's another Bukowski quote for you baldguy

The difference between a Democracy and a Dictatorship is that in a Democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a Dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting.

CHARLES BUKOWSKI, Erections, Ejaculations, Exhibitions and Tales of Ordinary Madness


You do understand he is being a tad facetious though don't you? Or do you?

[truth2power]

78. Intelligent, moderately well-informed, emotionally mature person here...

He's a hero.

[baldguy]

96. Russian protest leader Alexei Navalny jailed five years

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014540908

Russia jails opposition leader, Putin denounced as dictator
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-protest-leader-navalny-found-guilty-theft-052131600.html


Your assertion indicates you are not.

[truth2power]

106. And your point is what?? That those who point out their government's crimes

and predations against their own people get slammed? Here or in Russia...same as.

It's pathetic that Snowden has to petition Russia, of all places, for asylum, because he fears being disappeared, imprisoned and tortured by the US government if he returns to America.

Tragedy....then farce.


And speaking of FARCE - That gang of miscreants testifying before Congress yesterday about "three-hop queries"?

They are fscking nuts!!

[Aerows]

117. Oh, that's awesome proof

I guess we should be thankful that the US is now equitable with Russia. Brilliant correlation there.

[Swagman]

183. and man walks free in Florida after killing unarmed teenager..your point?

[baldguy]

198. Actually, that's a good comparison.

Both Zimmerman and Snowden are lying douchebags who benefit from the support of RW "libertarian" douchebags. The only difference is that Snowden hasn't killed anyone yet.

[BehindTheCurtain76]

167. How stupid can you be

This is the most idiotic thread I've ever seen in DU. Who cares about democrat or republican? We have all been lied to and your thread contains numerous lies. It's all being saved and all being used. Go home please.

[djean111]

174. I. ah, don't think you truly understood the spirit in which the thread was written.

[BehindTheCurtain76]

199. Prob not

Got so pissed ended up skimming in a rush. Total Onion style

[Swagman]

182. as usual Americans think it's all about them

but we foreigners did not give your country the right to spy on us, to divert planes carrying our president etc.

as usual Americans fail to understand why they are now probably the most hated race of people on earth. You would think that would worry the bulk of intelligent, moderately well-informed, emotionally mature Americans but it seems not.

[MannyGoldstein]

193. Are you Bolivian, by any chance? nm

[RC]

5. The Character Assassination Continues

[ProSense]

7. Echo

"The Character Assassination Continues"

Yet one lawmaker, Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, said some members of Congress wouldn’t have known about the NSA surveillance without the sensational leaks: “Snowden, I don’t like him at all, but we would never have known what happened if he hadn’t told us.”

Unlike the Rep. Poe, I knew about the NSA surveillance. Ask Senator Wyden.

[Mojorabbit]

56. If so then please inform us of the

expanded criteria the FISA court is using on surveillance. The ACLU has not even been able to get that info. They would love to know the details.

[AmBlue]

83. Nothin' but crickets.....

Not surprised.

[Aerows]

113. No reply

I'm not surprised. If it isn't "Obama is perfect and here is why" you won't get a response.

[JEB]

149. Now that is getting to the crux of the matter.

Several hours and still no answer. Not even any links to other non answers.

[GeorgeGist]

98. So Sen. Wyden knew Clapper was lying to him?

[tazkcmo]

165. That's all I needed.

NOW I feel safe.

[galileoreloaded]

30. three mins from OP to structured propaganda.. getting good!!

[ronnie624]

124. Propaganda for the feeble minded.

Every last bit of it, is irrelevant to a concerned citizen who values the principles embodied in the constitution, and understands the implications of a vast database of personal information on everyone in the world, giving the elites of human society -- a tiny fraction of the population -- a powerful weapon to use against all the rest of us, further consolidating their power over us.

I don't like it, one bit.

[pa28]

137. +1

[Luminous Animal]

31. Still peddling the torture-proof canard. Even though you been proved wrong.

[sabrina 1]

33. This is one of the funniest things I've read on DU for a while

If Snowden's case as a whistleblower is so strong, why is he afraid to face the consequences?

Considering the reputation this country now has regarding its treatment of detainees, torture, indefinite detention, and particularly its disregard for the rights of Whistle Blowers, it's total disregard for the law, it's hare to believe any sentient being would need to ask that question.

That would be like asking why anyone from any country that uses torture as a policy, where it is no longer illegal but where torturers are honored, and given medals, 'why don't you go face 'justice' in such a country?

The WORLD knows the answer to that question.

[drynberg]

122. Yes, Sabrina, I was thinking exactly the same thing. Reminds me of...

" some truths are self evident"...why would any logical rational soul stay in the USA while whistle blowing? If you really have to ask that question, the answer probably would not be understood.

[davidthegnome]

125. You said exactly what I was thinking.

At this point, I have to give kudos to anyone to has the nerve to blow the whistle on any US government activities. When we consider all that has happened over the past decade and more... it's not hard to understand why someone like Snowden would be reluctant to "face the consequences".

I guess that, to some extent, it depends on where we stand... whether or not we believe that even prisoners deserve to be treated humanely, with some level of respect. Whether we're willing to march in lockstep with anything the NSA does in the name of "protecting freedom". Can we, as Americans, maintain that we have any respect for privacy, or that we believe in freedom, when just about everything we do electronically is being watched? When, further, we're guilty of spying on our allies to an absolutely ridiculous extent?

I don't know Snowden personally, and frankly I'm not sure I care what kind of man he is. What I do care about is that he's one of the few people out there making any effort to tell the truth - and that in this time, that requires a nearly masochistic level of bravery.

Personally, I hope he stays away. I hope he remains free and that at some point we all recognize and applaud his bravery in doing what very few people have either the ability or the courage to do - to reveal the truth of those in power.

The idea that we have anything resembling justice here for the likes of Snowden is laughable. I wouldn't return to "face the consequences" either, because I would have no way of knowing if I'd be outsourced for torture.

[sabrina 1]

162. Nice post, thank you. Intelligent people without an agenda, understand that if 'facing the

consequences' meant facing a fair trial and fair media coverage of the issues, there would be no problem. Snowden would most likely still be here, since in such a system which valued truth and justice he would WANT to draw attention to what he has discovered and would feel confident that he would be treated fairly.

But in the US?? That is what made me laugh, not because I find this in any way amusing, just that ANYONE would even have to ask the question considering how low we have fallen as a democracy.

Thanks for your response, I agree with everything you said.

[Cleita]

49. Welcome to DU.

If you hang around, you will figure it out. It's mostly about cut and paste.

[Aerows]

115. It's pure

bullshit that this post got hidden. New person asking a question that lingers in the mind of everyone with a grain of goddamned sense, and their post gets hidden.

[SammyWinstonJack]

130. Was thinking the same.

Saw nothing wrong with that post at all.


Certainly as you wrote, asking a question that lingers in the mind of everyone with a grain of goddamned sense....

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

143. Thinking the same thing for a while.

[whttevrr]

131. I know, right?

Why was that post hidden?

It seemed like a valid question to me?

[tclambert]

153. Can we alert on a jury decision and demand a jury be formed to denounce the first jury?

What a stupid jury. Somebody alert on that 'cause I just insulted a jury. A stupid jury.

[Swagman]

184. I gave up on juries after a recent Florida verdict

[7962]

159. "disruptive, rude, insensitive, over-the-top...." Good lord,

what kind of jurors do we HAVE here anyway? But its ok to call for the death of people........

[NealK]

168. Yeah, WTF?

If I was more paranoid I would say that there's an option to get a post hidden with a fake jury result. Oh and it didn't took me long for that question to lingers in my mind too, although I don't even have an atom of goddamned (Pro)sense.

[Matariki]

210. yep.

[sabrina 1]

215. I agree, there is another post in this thread that probably should be hidden, but I decided to

leave it for posterity. I doubt THAT would have been hidden though.

[Matariki]

53. astute

welcome to DU

[questionseverything]

57. welcome matthews

great questions for prosense

[L0oniX]

64. +1 ^^^this^^^

[Aerows]

118. Absolute

bullshit that the post got hidden, because I think every single one of us that is rational asks that same question.

[L0oniX]

121. Irrational has become the norm here. n/t

[Aerows]

123. Appears to be true. n/t

[NealK]

171. I just read this before coming here:

Glenn Greenwald being interviewed on Democracy now but this part made me smile:

"What you—the only people at this point who are defending the NSA are the hardcore neocons in the Republican Party, people like Lindsey Graham and John McCain and the like, who see national security as the only value that matters, and the really hardcore Obama loyalists and Democrats, who defend anything the Obama administration does and have become the loudest proponents, ironically, of the massive secret surveillance state and of the government’s power to listen in. So those two groups—Republican neocons, Democratic Party loyalists—are at this point the only real defenders the NSA has left."



http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/18/glenn_greenwald_growing_backlash_against_nsa

[Aerows]

216. Standing shoulder to shoulder

with Republicans. I hope they are pleased by the choices they make to stand shoulder to shoulder with the very people that have obstructed everything under the sun in Congress.

I sense they like it, though, because it gives them CYA coverage - "Congress did it, not the executive branch!"

Bullshit. This is within the purview of the Executive Office.

[stupidicus]

70. easy question to answer. You too can become an accomplished poster/debater

just go to "copyandpastefordummies.com"

it's so easy even a cavewoman can do it

1. highlight the material to copy and push the right button on your mouse, and choose "copy"

2. put the mouse over the empty space where you wanna deposit it, hit the left button, and choose "paste"

and if you say, wanna deposit the same garbage in multiple posts, just open them all up in different tabs or windows, and just click away!!!!

you too can join the 100K club in mere months!!!!!

getting a DU fan club might be a bit more laborious though. That requires actual conversations and some originality.

[Apophis]

89. And, instead of talking about the NSA spying, you keep attacking Snowden's character.

[Gravitycollapse]

92. Cha-ching.

[NealK]

173. Lol!

[Aerows]

111. What is going to come to light

that could possibly harm President Obama, ProSense? He's perfect, right? Everything he does is above censure. Why on EARTH would someone criticize him, since it could be shot down in an instance due to his magnificence, right?

Wasting time shielding him from criticism is wasted time because he is so glorious and perfect and the bestest President the US has ever known.

[SammyWinstonJack]

132. heh

[bowens43]

135. still trying to discredit the message by discrediting the messenger? LOL

Give it up, you lost this battle....

[Progressive dog]

146. ^^^K&R^^^^ nt

[relayerbob]

175. I'm still of the opinion ..

that Snowden is a pawn and that there is a much larger game afoot here.

[Agony]

181. Your hair's on fire...

again

[idwiyo]

195. Today confirms, yet again, that your posts are full of BS. Keep digging!

[cantbeserious]

2. The Character Assassination Continues

eom

[ProSense]

6. Yeah,

"The Character Assassination Continues"

Yet one lawmaker, Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, said some members of Congress wouldn’t have known about the NSA surveillance without the sensational leaks: “Snowden, I don’t like him at all, but we would never have known what happened if he hadn’t told us.”

Unlike the Rep. Poe, I knew about the NSA surveillance. Ask Senator Wyden.

[tkmorris]

11. No you didn't.

[ProSense]

16. LOL! Yes, I did. n/t

[RobertEarl]

26. Heh

Quote from PS: "Unlike the Rep. Poe, I knew about the NSA surveillance."

My question... since you knew already, we have to wonder what you were waiting on to get around to telling us and Rep. Poe.

Did you inform Obama? If you did, why didn't he tell us the truth, the way Conyers now has?

Why did you wait for Snowden? You could have been a hero.

Oh, BTW, yes, Wyden knew. But he was sworn to secrecy. Were you sworn to secrecy also?

[revmclaren]

75. So did I.

Years ago I was posting about the spying and government programs like Carnivore (which has been replaced with even more frightening advanced programs) on my facebook page and other posts. The NSA spying program is the greatest secret NONsecret posted here. Stating that we didnt hear about it and stomping your feet and saying "No you didnt" does not change fact. Just makes person look like a bully! Snowden might have REMINDED people of the spying, but a hero.....Heroes dont run to mother Russia. And nothing will change my mind on this. Nothing. So rant on Snowdenites. Not listening and will not respond to any replies. Have a nice day.

[RobertEarl]

79. Heh

So your mind is closed?

Thing is, you don't know all that has gone on or is planned. To think you do is just plain crazy. There are some congress people who now know more than they did, and more than you know, and it has made them start talking.

Too, Snowden made it easier for them to start talking. Now even those whose minds were closed are beginning to open up and see the truth.

As for Snowden and his running off, he is not done telling the story. Were he here still, he'd be a fool to say anymore because he'd be under court order to cease. He is only free because he ran.

And if you want to argue that justice here is all set up fine and dandy, you only have to look at two cases of today to see that being out of the reach of this justice system is wise: Manning and the Zimmerman's cases are sure signs that Snowden is wise.

[ProSense]

23. Let's pretend we didn't know.

Wyden on Senate floor: FISA’s ‘general warrants’ are like the ‘Writs of Assistance’ the founding fat
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022081086

Senator Wyden (D-Ore.) calls for oversight of agencies that might be monitoring Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022081177

PATRIOT Act Being Used to Keep Super Duper Government Spy Operation Top Secret
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002440614

House votes to renew controversial surveillance law
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014228212

Obama signs FISA extension..5 more years.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022111527

[VanillaRhapsody]

21. Me too.....and let's not forget...Snowden decided to make it about him

He could have remained anonymous....but he chose not to. That was his next bad decision among several.

[JoeyT]

82. Had he done so

the very people insisting he made it all about him would be running around screaming about how he was afraid to put his name to his hateful lies against the President.

I'm more impressed that he didn't do it anonymously.

[VanillaRhapsody]

91. Oh for Heaven's Sake!

pfffffffttttt. Doom and Gloom ....Doom and Gloom

[JoeyT]

93. I can't think of a single reason

that the people that obsessed about boxes in garages and pole dancing girlfriends would have let an anonymous leak go without screaming about how it was anonymous.

[VanillaRhapsody]

101. sure you can

All those things BECAME interesting WHEN he decided to make it ABOUT him by putting his face in public. He could have easily prevented it by remaining anonymous. He brought THAT on himself.

[JoeyT]

107. Those things were never interesting.

They were smear attempts, and anonymity would have been one more tool for the smearing.

[VanillaRhapsody]

108. I should have said "interesting"

He could have prevented it by remaining anonymous.....instead he sought infamy. How do you "smear" an anonymous person? This is a ridiculous line of reasoning...

[JoeyT]

110. Quite easily.

"No one should trust anything this guy leaked because he's such a coward he won't even come forward."

I'm not saying you personally would have said that, but someone definitely would have.

[VanillaRhapsody]

112. Fanboys will be Fanboys I guess

[Aerows]

127. That's rich n/t

[Aerows]

126. There isn't a damn one of them

that would have passed on the opportunity to screech that he was an anonymous bully. Boxes in his garage, didn't stop to pet the neighbor's dog. Who in their right mind would think they wouldn't take an opportunity to bash him just because he was anonymous?

It's always going to be something with them. He dared to embarrass the Obama administration, and that makes him public enemy 1, period. Had this been under Bush, we'd be seeing an entirely different painting and hearing an entirely different song.

[VanillaRhapsody]

164. How would they know ANY of this if he were anonymous?

His current circumstances were brought on himself. And yes....he broke the law.

[sabrina 1]

39. No, you didn't. You knew what we all knew during the exposures by another whistle blower,

one btw who WAS a hero to some here who now seem to hate Whistle Blowers, during the Bush years.

Since that time you have SUPPORTED the egregious Amendment that was passed to PROTECT the criminals who had violated the FISA Bill, making what they did illegally, LEGAL. Their actions did NOT change, our crooked representatives misused and abused their powers and passed a law that made it unnecessary to get a warrant until AFTER the fact.

What we knew then was NOTHING compared to what we have just found out. But we did know that since Congress did not hold the Perps in the Bush administration responsible it would get worse, and that everyone who voted for that Amendment was complicit in allowing it to happen. THAT Was when I first had doubts about this President. And now I see I should have paid more attention to them. He condemned the Amendment and then voted for it.

What we have found out now is shocking, truly shocking and to keep posting this old talking point hoping to diminish how the Bush abuses have since escalated, isn't going to convince anyone of anything. .

[ProSense]

44. Oh please. Snowden's revelations are duds.

These members of Congress claiming they just found out are not believable.

How is it that several members of Congress are pointing to concerns, briefings are being held, votes are proceeding after debate, and others claim they had no idea.

"Since that time you have SUPPORTED the egregious Amendment that was passed to PROTECT the criminals who had violated the FISA Bill, making what they did illegally, LEGAL. Their actions did NOT change, our crooked representatives misused and abused their powers and passed a law that made it unnecessary to get a warrant until AFTER the fact."

What the fuck are you talking about?

[matthews]

55. If his 'revelations' are duds, why are you so upset? nt

[ProSense]

58. Because I forgot to welcome you to DU. n/t

[Aerows]

129. No

Because you know that they aren't duds, embarrassed the Obama administration, and anyone that does that, well, they are the enemy!

Face it, ProSense, you are so biased that the gravity of a black hole couldn't pull you from the "I worship Obama" camp. Public leaders need criticism occasionally, because they are human beings and make mistakes. All of us do. They have more power than most, so they need more criticism to keep them from doing harm to the public when they make mistakes.

[sabrina 1]

72. Then Ron Wyden has been lying for more than a year now, is what you are saying??

Those members are NOT lying, they did NOT know what was known to just a few of them. And those few, Wyden included, has been gagged from speaking about 'how they are using the law'.

He has asked over and over that they, those who did know, should be released from being forbidden to speak about how the law has been used.

I suspect that no on is happier than people like Wyden, who have stated over and over again 'if the people knew how they are using the law, they would be outraged'. Well, now we finaly do know and the people ARE outraged, more than half of them now with the numbers rising as more find out.

What Snowden has revealed is vital information for the people to have, as Wyden had wanted, in order to begin the process of ending these enormous violations of the 4th Amendment. Hopefully on an International level.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

189. Seriously, Sabrina, you're saying it's important that a GOP Congressman didn't know?

While my first question might be, "Since when has the DU fringe become Republican fan-girls?", I think a more pertinent" question might be "Since when is it newsworthy that some Republican doesn't know something?"

I thought even you would be better than that.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[sabrina 1]

213. Another truly feeble attempt at a personal attack intended to avoid answering the question I asked.

It's a simple question which and DEMOCRAT should have no problem answering.

So, I'll give you another shot at it. I'll ask it again: Is Ron Wyden lying and is Jerry Nadler lying? How about John Conyers? Are THEY 'Republican Fan Boys' How about Sanchez 'Republican Fan Girl' in your opinion?

Btw, Progressive Democrats refer to women as women. Right Wingers are known to refer to women as 'girls'. Just so you don't get into trouble on this Democratic Forum!

I look forward to your response and although it's unlikely, it would be more in line with the community standards on DU to try to stay on topic. Unless of course you do not want to answer what appears to be a very difficult question for you.

I hope no one alerts on your post, I prefer it remain visible for all to see.

'Fan Girl'! Sometimes people just give themselves away without even realizing it.

[Bluenorthwest]

190. Some on DU dont support Wyden, some hate Peter DeFazio and Jeff Merkely as

well. They think one can be a 'one Democrat Democrat'.

[sabrina 1]

212. Yes, that has become very apparent. But they are wrong of course.

[matthews]

48. Who do you work for? The NSA?

No one else knew? Are you smarter than all these organizations?


https://optin.stopwatching.us/

Selected Signatories:

18MillionRising - 350.org - Access - American Civil Liberties Union - American Library Association - Americans for Job Security - Applied Research Center - Association for Progressive Communications - Association of Alternative Newsmedia - Association of Research Libraries - Big Bad Lab - Bill of Rights Defense Committee - Bitcoin Foundation - Blog Action Day - Bradley Manning Support Network - Calyx Institute - Campaign for Liberty - Center for Democracy and Technology - Center for Media Justice - Centro de Cultura Luiz Freire - ColorOfChange.org - Competitive Enterprise Institute - Consumer Watchdog - Courage to Resist - CREDO Action - Daily Kos - Defending Dissent - Demand Progress - Detroit Digital Justice Coalition - Digital Fourth - Electronic Frontier Foundation - Electronic Frontiers Australia - EngageMedia - Entertainment Consumers Association (ECA) - FIDH - Worldwide Movement for Human Rights - Fight for the Future - Firedoglake - Foundation for Innovation and Internet Freedom - Free Press - Free Software Foundation - Freedom of the Press Foundation - Freedom Works - Gandi.net - Generation Justice - Generation Opportunity - GNOME - Green Party of Rhode Island - Green Party of the United States - Greenpeace USA - Guardian Project - HackThisSite.org - Icelandic Modern Media Initiative - Internet ArchiveLeague of Technical Voters - Learning About Multimedia Project - Libertarian Party - Liberty Coalition - LibrarianShipwreck - Main Street Project - Mansfield North Central Ohio Tea Party Association - Media Alliance - Media Literacy Project - Media Mobilizing Project - MoveOn.org - Mozilla - National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers - National Coalition Against Censorship - National Security Counselors - Occupy Wall Street NYC - OccupyWallSt.org - Open Internet Tools Project - Open Technology Institute at New America Foundation - OpenMedia.org - Participatory Politics Foundation - Partido PIRATA - PEN American Center - Pirate Party of Austria - PolitiHacks - Praxis Project - Privacy and Access Council of Canada - Privacy Camp - Progressive Change Campaign Committee - Progressive Librarians Guild - Public Knowledge - R Street Institute - Reel Grrls - Restore America's Voice - RestoreTheFourth - Revolution Truth - Rights Working Group - Rocky Mountain Civil Liberties Association - RootsAction.org - Tactical Tech - TechFreedom - Telecomix - Tenth Amendment Center - The Other 98% - Tor - Upwell - Urbana Champaign Independent Media Center - WBAI Radio - Whistleblower Defense League - WITNESS - Women in Media & News - World Wide Web Foundation - YourAnonNews

[Mojorabbit]

59. So she says. nt

[Cleita]

73. Welcome to DU.

I hope you stay. The alerts seem to be after you because I welcomed you.

[Aerows]

119. You are so omniscient

I'll bet you know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop.

[HipChick]

3. Lemme go pop some popcorn..

[pscot]

8. K&R

[mpgalloway]

12. NSA has a building full of full time debunkers posting on DU.

It's like a computer terminal sweatshop with paid agents by the hundreds. Maybe they get paid by how many negative posts about Ed they can create every day.

As soon as the recommendation for a Nobel Peace Prize started the negative traffic has increased ten fold....

[grasswire]

17. DU could stop this by charging for excessive bandwidth

I'm thinking that's a very good idea.

[Skittles]

102. LOL they're not debunkers, they are swooners

they'll cease their garbage in 2016

[ucrdem]

9. Snowded proved himself a liar exactly one month ago today:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3033934

Glad you finally figured it out!

[Scuba]

50. Well then all the spying is OK. Thank goodness Snowden lied.

[flamingdem]

10. Not just Liberals on DU, but Liberals (anti-Kremlin) in Russia say:

John Schindler ‏@20committee 7h
Anti-Kremlin Novaya Gazeta: "infantile ultra-leftist" #Snowden "wanted to become a virtual Christ without hanging on a cross"

** Though they did get the ultra-leftist part wrong, he's a Paul loving Libertarian

[99Forever]

28. Glutton for it, aren't you?

Bwahahahahahahhahahah.

[flamingdem]

35. The Russkies go for the jugular

I'm enjoying the ironic shoo

[99Forever]

40. Living proof that...

... Denial isn't isn't a river in Egypt.

[Puglover]

99. The "Russkies"

Who are you? June Cleaver?

[Bluenorthwest]

191. Ethnic slurs are all the rage among the OFA Centrists

nt

[Puglover]

197. Yes

My personal favorite:"Latin America is a cyst on the anus of the world."

[Mojorabbit]

62. Ron Paul mention for the win!!!! nt

[flamingdem]

65. Well lefty he ain't nt

[Mojorabbit]

68. Can't have a Snowden thread without the mention of Ron Paul can we? LOL nt

[flamingdem]

69. Apparently it's not mentioned enough or the Russians would know this fact nt

[Mojorabbit]

86. I am sure the Russians do not care about a 2 bit player in American politics! nt

[flamingdem]

87. You don't get it. The real, as opposed to FSB human rights groups are watching

as Putin tries to use Snowden to distract from his enemy who is about to go to prison, and to distract from other humans rights issues.

Excuse me if you just don't give a shit, being short sighted includes ignoring the international implications

[Mojorabbit]

88. I think most people can keep track of more than one thing happening at a time. I can. nt

[progressoid]

104. Well somebody had to do it since graham4anything isn't around anymore.

[SammyWinstonJack]

133. What happened to graham4anything?

[progressoid]

134. ppr'ed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=280518&sub=trans

[forestpath]

14. K&R

[Thinkingabout]

15. From information I gathered from a Snowden fan the information they are working with occurred in

2004 through 2008. I know Bush spoke of this surveillance in 2005 and I knew at the time there was also warrantless wiretapping happening and I did not agree those wiretaps was without oversight. I do not know where this group has been for the last several years but if they really had a grasp of the truth then they would not have a reason to yell and scream for their hero. I think more every day Snowden is somebodies patsy, it would be good for Snowden to return to the US and plead to a lesser charge in exchange for information on the backers of this mess.

[Luminous Animal]

27. Actually no. You can look at the classified dates on some of the documents...

I think the earliest date was 2010 for the Prism program the latest date is April 2013 for the Verizon sweep.

[Thinkingabout]

32. The information I was given today was 2004 to 2007, I don't know if they was aware of the

dates or not. I am sure some programs have started and there will be more and better ones coming as technology becomes available.

[Luminous Animal]

34. The information you have been given is incorrect.

The Guardian publishes the source documents so it is easy to refute.

[Thinkingabout]

42. I did the research on the information I was given, yes it did occur in 2004 through 2007.

[whatchamacallit]

18. AFAIC

the real traitors are right here on this board, doing everything they can to mind-fuck you into authoritarian submission.

[quinnox]

19. these congressmen asking these type questions should be investigated at once

for disloyalty and possible treason to the nation.





Good to see third way Manny!

[Th1onein]

20. You lost me at "Kremlin Eddie." Sorry, but that really is a bad way to make your

point. You lose all credibility at that point.

You lose.

[MNBrewer]

22. Psssst

[emulatorloo]

25. The Manny Faces of Eve

[jtuck004]

85. On the best seller list again... n/t

[GoneFishin]

29. Finally, Third-Way Manny puts that biscuit snafter Sned Nodin in his place once and for all.

[stupidicus]

38. That has been long overdue

I knew he was lying when he claimed "direct access" and used an actual NSA powerpoint http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=nsa%20powerpoint%20%22direct%20access%22&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fworld%2F2013%2Fjun%2F06%2Fus-tech-giants-nsa-data&ei=xFLnUYj8BIXqqwHP54CwCg&usg=AFQjCNEy-klqioBaIhDRMFkWNm0A9ixuBg&bvm=bv.49478099,d.aWM to prove it.

It's like the only ones telling the truth are the liars...

I'm so confused

[Thinkingabout]

43. K & R

Agreed, Snowden puffed and puffed himself into something he could never be.

[Matariki]

47. Third-Way Manny needs a blog

or maybe a tv show

[tclambert]

155. Stephen Colbert sort of fills that niche already.

Come to think of it, I've never seen Colbert and Third Way Manny in the same place at the same time. Hey, Colbert, take off those glasses for a moment.

[tblue]

51. Liberals hate freedom.

Whereas we "Real" Democrats love it. We want our gummint free to protect us by any means necessary. Even if it means curtailing our freedom. Three Cheers for the Red, White, and Blue! USandA! USandA! USandA!

Remember what the wise man said: You must destroy freedom to save it.

[The Straight Story]

54. Congress approved of the Iraq war too. How did you feel about that? (nt)

[MannyGoldstein]

63. Sadly, most Democrats voted against it.

A stain on our party's record.

Thank goodness Hillary had the courage to pursue the phantom menace hidden within Iraq. She's inevitable again, you know.

[The Straight Story]

66. But didn't you want bush impeached over such things as the iraq war

even though it was approved by congress?

Maybe we have the same thing here - congress approved but was lied to.

[woo me with science]

60. "everything in the world"

Indeed.

"Collect it all."

The Crux of the NSA Story in One Phrase: 'Collect It All'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023261311

[Pholus]

136. Now *that* can't be right. We had DU guarantees that collection was just metadata!

And that it meant NOTHING because numbers could not be connected with names!

Certainly "Collect it All" must mean "Collect it all if it's metadata, ignore it otherwise because we are not listening to your calls"

Otherwise, it would look like deliberate misleading...

[burnodo]

61. Don't you mean "Ralph" Nadler?

There is no greater villain to the third way.

[MannyGoldstein]

67. You know, I've never seen Nadler and Nader at the same place and time.

Could it be...?

Damn!

[demosincebirth]

71. Yea, but, but...

[Lonr]

76. WTH?

If Edward Snowden had not leaked the information he did, these hearings would never have taken place and the NSA would be free to continue with it's blatantly illegal surveillance. The fact that the NSA is collecting communication information from U. S. citizens indiscriminately is, itself, a violation of the protections afforded by the 4th Amendment to the United Stated Constitution. So, by sacrificing his comfortable lifestyle to become a fugitive from the worlds most powerful nation to alert all of us to the dangers we face within our own national security apparatus, Snowden has, in fact, shown himself to be a true hero.

[MannyGoldstein]

77. My alter ego keeps forgetting about Poe's law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

Sorry for the confusion.

Regards,

First-Way Manny

[Lonr]

80. Ah,

if I missed the sarcasm, then I apologize as well

[tclambert]

160. I did the first time I saw a Third-Way Manny post, too.

But then I woke up and became a fan. I'm still not sure about this guy Pro-Sense, though. Is it possible he's not doing satire?

[Pholus]

140. Your alter ego quoted a Congressman named Poe at least...

So that's kind of close in a way.

Might even be within three degrees of separation, meeting the NSA metadata criteria for scrutiny!

[idwiyo]

152. ...

Damn you!

[tclambert]

158. Wait! There's a FIRST-Way Manny?

I thought Third-Way had killed and eaten all the other alters.

And I thought Poe's Law was about when Raven Hunting season opens. (Hint: Nevermore.)

[bearssoapbox]

84. .

[rhett o rick]

90. I lost track of where on the denial chart we are. First they said Snowden lied and had

no information and they knew, they KNEW that the NSA wasnt spying.

Then came Clapper admitting he lied to Congress (I think he said he told the least lie possible) and that someone was collecting data but the NSA wasnt using it w/o a warrant.

Then we see the warrant that gave the NSA carte blanche authority to collect whatever data they wanted. The Booz-Allen apologists said, yes but it was legal because it was a warrant. Yes it was a warrant, but a warrant that was in clear violation of the FISA Law as well as the Constitution. It was an illegal warrant.

Then the NSA said they only looked at the data of suspected terrorists* and all of their contacts.

Now they are admitting they might have fibbed a little and were analyzing data on all terrorist suspects and their contacts and all of the contacts of those contacts. If you passed first year algebra you would recognize that the number of people being analyzed just jumped geometrically.

What has been tippy-toed around about is that Booz-Allen or someone is collecting data on all Americans and analyzing it whether the NSA accesses it or not. This is a tremendous tool for a tyrant. Just saying.

*Per the Patriot Act, suspected terrorists includes all protestors and anyone that interferes with corporations making a profit.

[KoKo]

105. For NSA Chief, ‘Collect It All’

For NSA chief, terrorist threat drives passion to ‘collect it all,’ observers say

Alexander frequently points out that collection programs are subject to oversight by Congress as well as the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, although the proceedings of both bodies are shrouded in secrecy. But even his defenders say Alexander’s aggressiveness has sometimes taken him to the outer edge of his legal authority.

Some in Congress complain that Alexander’s NSA is sometimes slow to inform the oversight committees of problems, particularly when the agency’s eavesdroppers inadvertently pick up communications that fall outside the NSA’s legal mandates. Others are uncomfortable with the extraordinarily broad powers vested in the NSA chief. In 2010, he became the first head of U.S. Cyber Command, set up to defend Defense Department networks against hackers and, when authorized, conduct attacks on adversaries. Pentagon officials and Alexander say the command’s mission is also to defend the nation against cyberattacks.

“He is the only man in the land that can promote a problem by virtue of his intelligence hat and then promote a solution by virtue of his military hat,” said one former Pentagon official, voicing a concern that the lines governing the two authorities are not clearly demarcated and that Alexander can evade effective public oversight as a result. The former official spoke on the condition of anonymity to be able to talk freely.

Alexander himself has expressed unease about secrecy constraints that he says prohibit him from fully explaining what the NSA does. But just as in Iraq, he remains fiercely committed to the belief that “we need to get it all,” said Timothy Edgar, a former privacy officer at the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and at the White House.

The NSA’s 5,000-acre campus at Fort Meade in suburban Maryland contains more than 1,300 heavily guarded buildings and an array of computers and gadgetry sometimes described as “the most wonderful electronic toybox in the world.” But even before his arrival there in 2005 as director, Alexander was regarded as a leading apostle for harnessing technology’s awesome power in the service of national security.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/for-nsa-chief-terrorist-threat-drives-passion-to-collect-it-all/2013/07/14/3d26ef80-ea49-11e2-a301-ea5a8116d211_story_1.html

[rhett o rick]

116. Thanks KoKo. Please see my OP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023287864

[davidpdx]

94. Oh why can't we just get this over with

tell him he can come back and throw Snowden the parade he deserves. Then we can build a monument for him in Washington, impeach Obama and install him as our new leader

sparkling

[muriel_volestrangler]

95. It's half-dimensional chess

Squares are two dimensional - to the 2nd power. Cubes are 3 dimensional - the to 3rd power. Square roots are, therefore, half dimensional - to the power of a half. And that introduces a convenient "plus or minus" for your answer. So you see, this hasn't been 3 dimensional chess, or 9 dimensional chess, but half dimensional chess. Where you get to pick the outcome.

[MannyGoldstein]

120. Math DUzy!

Awesome.

[tclambert]

161. Well, I say there are 10 kinds of people in the world . . .

those who understand binary and those who don't.

[truedelphi]

177. Ah. But so sad that

many people under the age of 35 won't know what you mean when you say "square root." Unless you can post the glyph on the calculator that represents the term.

[Blanks]

180. Surely anyone could enter the formula in a spreadsheet. eom

[Spitfire of ATJ]

208. Isn't it this?

Here's a cube root:

[Puzzledtraveller]

100. Well done, well done

[bahrbearian]

103. I hope your right. Maybe soon we won't have too fool ourselves and waste all that time voting.

[Safetykitten]

114. Go Manny...go Manny!

[upaloopa]

128. Neither you nor I nor every other DUer here knows what the truth is.

We pick a side and present news articles that support it.
Actually I think the food fight is more important to the participants then what is or isn't going on in the NSA.

[WillyT]

141. LOL !!! - K & R !!!

[davidwparker]

148. Got it, 3rd Way.

Under this pseudonym, is the background behind the point you're making.

Cool.

[Billy Pilgrim]

150. This is not a valid argument.

Last edited Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:15 PM - Edit history (1)

This -- " The REAL game in Washington is like that: everyone in these hearings says the OPPOSITE of what they mean." -- is based on subjective perception and faith.

How does one explain the disclosure of Verizon's records? Why would the ACLU be suing the Obama administration? Why would Obama himself defend NSA surveillance? Are they also doing the opposite of their intentions?

Give me a break.

This is the argument of a person in denial.

Edit:
Fuck, I only read about 60% before responding. Missed the sarcasm.

[idwiyo]

157. The OP is taking the piss. That's why he signed it as Third-Way Manny.

Same as I would sign my reply to his OP as:

Third-Way Loyal Royalist Idwiyo

Long live The Poodle & GCHQ!

[DeSwiss]

151. K&R

[RoccoR5955]

156. Thanks for that Emmanuel

You have proven that the programming from the Ministry of Truth has worked.
They tell the truth, and you broadcast it.
Thanks from The Party.

[MannyGoldstein]

187. Soon, we will always be at war with Eastasia

Because they're all terrorists!

Terra! Terra! Everywhere!

[RoccoR5955]

214. It appears that your training is not over.

We ARE always at war with Eastasia, or have you forgotten that?

[felix_numinous]

163. Too funny.

'They look away when you look back at them'

Thanks for the desperately needed humor

[markpkessinger]

166. TW-M is back!

Love it!

[AtheistCrusader]

169. LOL

Worth the read as always.

[MotherPetrie]

178. K&R

[Gregorian]

179. Besides, what's the big deal with fascism anyways.

[idwiyo]

185. K&R

[MannyGoldstein]

186. Ah, my partner from the other side of the pond

Together, we'll keep all English-speaking peoples safe from the right to privacy!

[idwiyo]

192. We shall succeed! Why, just today I had an email from a company that wanted MY PERMISSION to use my

user data for marketing purposes. What is wrong with them? Don't they know it belongs to them simply because I bought something from them?
What is the world coming to?

Here, a quote:

Dear Customer,
In connection with the management of our customer database, we would like to remind you that SNCB Europe (the SNCB department in charge of services relating to international trains) may use your personal details for direct marketing purposes, as stated in its privacy policy.

Under Privacy Legislation, you have the right at any time, free of charge, to object to the processing of your data for direct marketing purposes, to access your data, and to have it corrected, or, if necessary, deleted in accordance with the SNCB Europe privacy policy (see above link).

If you would prefer that your data is no longer used for direct marketing purposes, please complete this online form.

Can you believe that entire online form was ONE click box. NOTHING ELSE?! Bloody libertarian ultra-leftist commie bastards! This foul practice has to be stopped BEFORE it spreads further! Don't they understand how dangerous this practice can be to the wellbeing of the US & UK military-industrial complex?


Third-Way Loyal Royalist Idwiyo

Long live The Poodle & GCHQ!

[MannyGoldstein]

201. I love how your country's sites say "oh, we have cookies

and can you check here to say it's OK?"

Might as well say "Terrorists, come on in, the water's great!"

A lack of precious bodily fluids!

[BrainMann1]

188. Lets make one thing clear Liberals are a part of

being a Democrat. I saw through your re-thug (republican)for what it is. You can't divide us. As I wrote before see the remarks made by The ED Show. Nuff said bye!

[Bluenorthwest]

194. You failed to recognize the satire....

in part because Manny does an excellent job of it. It's a joke, he's taking the piss out of the Conservative Democrats and their Republican pals.

[freemay20]

196. And if you believe the bullshit report our government published, I have a bridge to sell you NT

[MannyGoldstein]

202. Sorry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

[freemay20]

206. No Need...

to be sorry. I voiced my opinion just as you are free to voice your opinion. Neither better than the other even though they may be completely different.

[Bragi]

200. Yet another freeper style thread

DU sure ain't a very liberal-sounding place these days.

Yay massive surveillance! Kill all the whistle blowers! Blah, blah...

[MannyGoldstein]

203. My bad...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

[Spitfire of ATJ]

204. No, no, no...

They HAVE to collect EVERYTHING so when the next terrorist attack happens they can't be accused of not doing enough.

[99th_Monkey]

207. I think it's called "protecting & serving the shit out of us"

[99th_Monkey]

205. It would be ONE thing if Snowden was like, you know, a REAL whistle-blower

but EVERY body knows what a narcissist he is, and he has this suspicous
twitch, that I KNOW means he's always lying. I learned that on Bones ...
euh .. or was it Lie To Me? I can't remember now.

[leeroysphitz]

209. I think Warren's granddaughter could afford more than a dime bag.

She's probably good for an ounce of kush...