Who's watching 60 minutes with the discussion on anti-depressants versus the

[malaise]

placebo pills.
Big pharma should be shaking.

[Uncle Joe]

1. I am, they have an industry defender on now.

Thanks for the thread, malaise

[malaise]

2. They always have their industry man on Uncle Joe

It's always on the one hand and on the other for M$Greedia.

[malaise]

4. The British take is very interesting

Wow!

[Uncle Joe]

5. Yes that sounds like a promising approach.

[Uncle Joe]

3. Overall good coverage of the issue but they need to focus more on how

these drugs are advertised..

[rox63]

6. Um, some people DO benefit from these drugs

Particularly those who are most severely afflicted by depression. I count myself among those.

[banned from Kos]

8. the scientist said that they do benefit severe cases

mild cases - not so much - to none at all.

[rox63]

10. They should probably have never started prescribing these drugs for mild cases

But the insurance companies don't like to pay for talk therapy. They are more likely to throw pills at the problem instead.

[laundry_queen]

17. That is EXACTLY right.

I'm in Canada so my basic stuff gets covered, but for my 'additional' coverage through my school, I don't have coverage for 'therapy' (unless you have a serious issue and are referred by your doctor to a psych it's not covered here in Canada), but I DO have prescription coverage. I was on those damn pills for years and they actually made my problem worse. I was a zombie. I put up with abuse because I didn't care. If I'd have had some talk therapy, I'm pretty sure my therapist would have noticed what was going on and helped me to get out of the situation I was in. Instead, I sat in zombie-land letting stuff go by and not caring. After my ex left ME, I was shocked out of my stupor, and went off those pills. Amazing I let all those years go by without caring. Wow. BTW, I doubt they are as innocuous as a placebo - I had a fucking hard time trying to get off of them. Horrid withdrawals symptoms. *shiver* so glad that's over. Will never go back on them again.

[Drahthaardogs]

37. Even talk therapy is over used.

There have been many studies that show if talk therapy is going to help you, it will do so in about the first 15 sessions. After that, the benefit seen lessens and eventually goes to near nothing.

[maximusveritas]

15. Unfortunately, many people will just hear that antidepressants don't work

and either get off them or not get on them when they really could help. There is a placebo effect for other non-psychiatric meds, but no one ever talks about that. The problem with psychiatric studies is that there is so much variability with how much patients are getting therapy or just psychosocial support that it can skew results in various directions.

[rox63]

18. Antidepressants have literally saved my life

Because of the meds (along with a lot of therapy), I am able to live a functional, somewhat normal life. It is not a cure, but it makes the illness manageable. I go in for therapy when a crisis hits, or when I need a "tune-up". But I doubt I would still be here if not for the meds.

[Honeycombe8]

32. Sounds like my hormones. I call them my happy pills. But I don't go to therapy.

Just me and my happy pills. I'll be weaning myself off of them soon, though.

[jbnow]

35. Thank goodness you got what you need

No one on show felt they were not helpful for serious depression. If you were unable to live a "functional, somewhat normal life" you had serious depression and that is who the meds helped significantly more than placebo did.

Many people treated with the drugs are able to live the functional, somewhat normal life even before the drugs, just feeling unsettled or unhappy or blue but not the painful, disabling kind that it sounds like you felt.

Really snide comments about the drug are not to dismiss those they do help.
Doctors who prescribe them to those with mild depression are doing it to help most of the time and will probably appreciate hearing the findings. Maybe. They want to help and prescribing something is one of their only tools

Pharmacy companies misleading are an issue though. But the profit would be so much less if only prescribed for what real evidence calls for... severe depression.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

28. Count me as another that benefited from anti-depressants

I suffered for a long, long time with a terrible anxiety disorder that included massive and crippling panic attacks. It was bad enough that I wouldn't leave the house, and couldn't function as a normal human being. It's not an exaggeration to say that anti-depressants saved my life.

[Marrah_G]

33. I know I do

[banned from Kos]

7. I know people who try them all out - Celexa, Prozac, etc

looking for some noticeable effect.

Now I see why they get nothing out of them.

[tridim]

9. It was stunning. Basically all of those ads are false advertisement.

Now they have "Abilify" to take if your antidepressant isn't working well enough.

It's all a scam.

I find it ironic that there is no placebo effect for Cannabis and stress (for me at least), it actually works, yet it remains illegal.

[2pooped2pop]

12. yes, pot is too dangerous, even by prescription

You will have to settle with morphine.

Just ridiculous isn't it? We can have narcotics for illness but that evil pot is out of the question.

[malaise]

13. We had a long discussion about this at a brunch today

How do you make a natural plant which works illegal while promoting all this crap.

[tridim]

16. Lobbying is how.

I'd like to see a class action against big-pharma. That'd shake up some things.

[malaise]

21. What I don't get is that big pharma tells people to tell their doctors what

they want and then when they do we get the death of MJ, Whitney et al.
Meanwhile M$M and big pharma are never responsible for promoting the drugs.

[sarcasmo]

24. The USA way

[tridim]

25. This is interesting, apparently the placebo effect is related to the endocannabinoid system

Which may be the reason that Cannabis tends to make us feel better. Feeling "better" IMO is more than half the battle in maintaining quality of life. I'm guessing meditation does the exact same thing with natural endocananabinoids.

Nonopioid placebo analgesia is mediated by CB1 cannabinoid receptors

Placebo analgesia is mediated by both opioid and nonopioid mechanisms, but so far nothing is known about the nonopioid component. Here we show that the specific CB1 cannabinoid receptor antagonist 5-(4-chlorophenyl)-1-(2,4-dichloro-phenyl)-4-methyl-N-(piperidin-1-yl)-1H-pyrazole-3-carboxamide (rimonabant or SR141716) blocks nonopioid placebo analgesic responses but has no effect on opioid placebo responses. These findings suggest that the endocannabinoid system has a pivotal role in placebo analgesia in some circumstances when the opioid system is not involved.

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v17/n10/full/nm.2435.html

Gee, do you think maybe we should start funding National studies on this? It seems like the endocannabinoid system is every bit as imporant as any other system in the body.

[malaise]

34. Excellent post

[Zoeisright]

31. Take some time and read the posts above you. It's NOT a scam.

Christ.

[Uncle Joe]

11. One of the things that gets to me about big pharma pushing drugs on the networks news,

not to mention the rest of T.V. programming is the mixed psychological messages being transmitted, confusing the people.

They talk about potential side effects from the mild ones to suicidal thoughts, potential death and everything but your penis falling off while simultaneously giving the visual message of their actors and actresses walking, running on the beach, flying a kite, smiling and enjoying life in general, meanwhile the side effects message is droning on in the background as if it means nothing.

[ohheckyeah]

14. If you ever looked at

a Physician's Desk Reference you would be amazed at how many drugs of all kinds have little effect greater than a placebo.

[fascisthunter]

19. I Can Tell You They do Work for REAL Depressed Folks

[malaise]

20. The discussion was about mild depression

not REAL depressed folks

[postulater]

22. More medical woo for profit. Nt

[benld74]

23. Drug commercials on television, 24/7, tell your doctor, ask your doctor, I am sick of it!

[Cleita]

27. Used to be that only over the counter drugs like asprin advertised to the public.

Prescription drugs used to only advertise in medical journals. I don't know if it was a voluntary ethical decision or if it was the law, but I wish they would go back to that system. It should be the doctor who decides which drugs are best for you, not you telling the doc what you want.

[applegrove]

26. Anti depressants gave me my memory back. I can't tell you how much they have helped me over the

years.

[Ilsa]

29. And many of them will help people with real depression.

I think what a lot of DUers are talking about is that there seem to be people who believe life is always supposed to be happy without pain or worries or anxiety. They want to just numb the feelings instead of addressing the source of their anxiety or depression. Let's face it: life isn't always cheerful. And sometimes the bad things that happen can motivate us to change the things in our lives that don't satisfy us.

I think antidepressants can also help "jumpstart" the brain when someone has suffered a trauma or very depressing series of events. I know a number of folks who took them, got better, then weaned themselves off the drugs.

And then there will be others who will always need the help the Rx provides.

Good luck to you!

[Bigmack]

30. The part I like best about the Pharma ads on TV...

.. is the possible side effects...

"May cause brain cancer, flaming diarrhea, liver failure, and/or memory loss..."

Oh, shit... I want me some of that! I'm gonna talk to my doctor, just like the ad says. I don't know what that shit is for, but I need some!

[malaise]

36. We roll with laughter when we hear the list of side effects

Like you said